Congress are going to pass a bill today, that will change your world

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Thanks Deltaboy, im reading up on the acts as im typin this.

Thankfully though, Clinton didnt invade another country.... I mean the only terrorists he had were the ones striking the USA.

Wouldn't matter this was still about dealing with terrorism. And in anyways hes attacked many countries before that could be considered illegal to many people even though he believes it was the right thing to do.

NOW, we have a whole REGION of terrorists, thanks to this illegial war.
Should Iraq declare us terrorists for what we've done, and implement similiar laws.... well, lawful country pitted against lawful country, where both countries declare the other a terrorist state..

A whole region of terrorists that are attacking their own people and not American citizens. Thats as far as they can go. But then we have a whole region of terrorists around Afghanistan long before we invaded that country as well so it didn't matter. And since terrorists don't like to dress up themselves in uniform because they are afraid of being caught and killed by American soldiers, they should be tried as enemy combatants. Same thing for Osama and his followers. He is no soldier, and he does not represent a state.

Do you know prior to the US invading saddam opened the doors to all his prisons?
Imagine if we did that should the US ever be invaded..
Would you blame the USA's core values when 1000's of reports of RAPE, MURDER, CHILD SEXUAL offences and so forth came out in the news?

Granted tho, civilians killing there own isnt anything to label as a positive..
But surely those actions are direct results of us being the terrorists here,
had we not unlawfully attacked another country.. this wouldnt be happening?
I agree with you that an enemy whom refuses to wear a uniform and stand there ground doesnt deserve the same rights..

But they deserver RIGHTs. they arent pigs to the slaughter, they are human beings.
They have obvioulsy been put in this situation.
If you were up against a 1000 man army, armed only with ur ak, and no troops..
would u stand on the battlefield in your colours.. and fight them?
All is fair in love and war....especially in a war that was started for money.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

But they deserver RIGHTs. they arent pigs to the slaughter, they are human beings.
They have obvioulsy been put in this situation.
If you were up against a 1000 man army, armed only with ur ak, and no troops..
would u stand on the battlefield in your colours.. and fight them?
All is fair in love and war....especially in a war that was started for money.

After what they been doing in Afghanistan and Iraq and as well as in the U.S. You are now telling me that they are put in this situation where they need to commit this type of terror like beheadings and crashing into buildings? And you are complaining that terrorists need to be respected as human beings??? Since when do terrorists complain about mistreatment? O yeah now they are put in a situation where they can't tolerate us beating the crap out of them in their cells and playing loud music. Being a terrorist does not mean treat me well, even though I am intentionally killing your civilian population in hopes of achieving my objectives even though it violates the Geneva Convention. Alls fair in love and war.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Okay, I fear this bill would harm Osama Bin Laden and his followers if they are caught. They are such nice people.

LOL...well, I too am concerned….; but that is a different thread as to what laws to try 'him' (and his followers) if caught.....

I’ll ask the question again to the point of the OP:

What is it about this bill…with supported facts…that causes any/all concern(s)?

Hint…mere complaining does not amount to an answer.


mg

i have read about half of this thread and cannot read anymore becuase the comments from some of the shortsighted people here.

Why is it that some people cannot percieve the ratcheting effect of lwas and regulations that are being stripped from us one administration at a time?

What are you going to do when an extreme left wing liberal administration comes to power and uses these new powers against you?

Why would anyone want something like this for aliens? We dont play like that, it doesnt matter what they do to us, if we keep playing fair and if our cause is right we will prevail.

If our cause is for getting a military foothold in th middle east, and we are ultimately doing this for power and greed we will fail.

Its just the way the world works. Face it people, we are not on the side of good, or this law would not have been considered. For the first time in my life, this year I have realized how the German people let the Nazi party do what they had done.

May God see that we do still have inoccent people here and spare us his wrath.

Good luck to the rest, and may the next Liberal administration not use these laws to harshly on you, for it wont take but one domestic terror act to finsh this job.

Delta boy and all others that cannot understand the meaing of empathy. What would you do if you were an Iraqi freedom fighter, put on a unifornm and stand toe to toe with the greatest military the earth has seen? Wouldnt that be slightly retarded?

Walk in anothers shoes, and feel what it would be like to have these young raised by violent TV and video game American soldiers coming after you with super technology.

Man I would run the other way, blend in and pick em off on my own terms.

Edit to add: We are the ones commiting terror over in their country. They are defending themselves. So if the situation was reversed, you would put on a uniform so you can be easily identified and killed from so far away you dont even know there is an enemy in the area?



[edit on 17-10-2006 by LoneGunMan]

GW Bush was just aired on my local radio station

" Those who kill americans, will be brought to justice "

Who is going to bring you to justice MR Bush, you have now killed more of your OWN people, than the terrorists..

deltaboy.

Its debatable who hit america on sept11, before the definitive conclusion has been met I dont think its fair to say ' what they did '

THEY are doing exactly what any decent american would do in IRAQ, and thats fight the oposing force.

The ones doing the raping, beheading and so forth are probably made up largley of the prisoners he RELEASED..
but even saying so, this is only happening AFTER we went in..............

Like I said should we open america open its jails, is it right to condemn EVERY american for what these ruthless inhumane people are doing?

Being a terrorist means being brought to justice.. not being beaten in a cell.

they deserve it, yes.
But why lose your own credability at revenge, if we continue to murder innocent people, beat our prisoners and so forth.. what have we effectivley become?

They are not killing civilans any more, AFGHAN hit us on sept11 supposidly...
these Iraq's didnt do a thing and they are killing our illegial war machine.. not our citizens.

there's a huge difference a lot of people FAIL to see

The reaction we are recording is exactly what we expected. And although many of you have the direct power to take action against it, your complete an utter terror of us paralyzes you from even thinking about taking any action. you are all helpless. Noone will come to your aid. Soon you will not even pose an information threat.

Go about your everyday lives without a care, we demand it.

[edit on 10/17/2006 by DYepes]

If they were over here I would do a LOT more than behead and rape. Its MY family at stake, I would take the kids gloves off. You have to expect it when you invade someones home.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
If they were over here I would do a LOT more than behead and rape. Its MY family at stake, I would take the kids gloves off. You have to expect it when you invade someones home.

Exactly.
What would the world think, if that invading nation branded all the US resistance as TERRORISTS, and demanded them to be locked up and geneva conventions REMOVED?

The current administration, together with rupert murdochs media magnate, chenneys links with hilliburton, the bush family ties to the CIA, and the various industrial war profits... this government is in complete control.

This governemt is in CHARGE, they control what you see and hear, they control the size of the military, they control whom makes the decisions.

Where exactly are the people in this equation?
All you need to do, is sit in your arm chair.. drinking your beer, driving your petrol consuming F100, toting your guns in your basement and swearing at them DAMN terrorists, who performed a task so unbeeliveable, you dare not question this governemnts conclusions.

now they control whom of you are a liability to this current regime....

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Delta boy and all others that cannot understand the meaing of empathy. What would you do if you were an Iraqi freedom fighter, put on a unifornm and stand toe to toe with the greatest military the earth has seen? Wouldnt that be slightly retarded?

O really, so thats how it goes. Its a wonder why so many men in civilian clothing were killed in Iraq by our hands and people accuse us of indiscriminate killing.

Man I would run the other way, blend in and pick em off on my own terms.

Fine by me, we can just arrest and kill you even if there are traces of gunpowder on your hand. Not to mention probably tried if you have attacked mosques and markets and funerals. Thats the logical solution to a person not in uniform.

Edit to add: We are the ones commiting terror over in their country. They are defending themselves. So if the situation was reversed, you would put on a uniform so you can be easily identified and killed from so far away you dont even know there is an enemy in the area?

Defending themselves against their own people or against American troops? Whos intentionally killing the civilians more?

Originally posted by deltaboy

Defending themselves against their own people or against American troops? Whos intentionally killing the civilians more?

sometimes, I just dont know!

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Walk in anothers shoes, and feel what it would be like to have these young raised by violent TV and video game American soldiers coming after you with super technology.

Man I would run the other way, blend in and pick em off on my own terms.

Perhaps because my son is an American soldier I cannot agree with your description of our American military. "raised by violent TV and video games". Come on! Do you know an American soldier who actually believes and behaves as your portrayal of our American sons is written?

Originally posted by Mahree

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Walk in anothers shoes, and feel what it would be like to have these young raised by violent TV and video game American soldiers coming after you with super technology.

Man I would run the other way, blend in and pick em off on my own terms.

Perhaps because my son is an American soldier I cannot agree with your description of our American military. "raised by violent TV and video games". Come on! Do you know an American soldier who actually believes and behaves as your portrayal of our American sons is written?

while I dont believe the current breed of brave fighting men are of that nature..
by juding on some peoples posting on this board..

god help us should some opinions on this board become mainstream throughout the military.

Some people are just to brason , and love the idea of nukes flying.
Thankgod there are people in the army with the character of your son ( assuming he is the highquality individual you speak ) becuase its men like this with a level head we need to raise up and enter the ranks of the decision makers.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
If they were over here I would do a LOT more than behead and rape. Its MY family at stake, I would take the kids gloves off. You have to expect it when you invade someones home.

Nearly every Iraqi killed has been killed by another Iraqi. Not by an American Soldier. Your statements don't acknowledge that fact. Why? Are you intentionally trying to confuse people to get them to agree with your point of view? It would seem that way. I would hate to think you are posting here without ever actually having studied what is going on. If you are up to date on the news then you must be spreading false information on purpose?

NOTE: This next portion is being written by a Fire Fighter from this area not me. I showed this avatar to him and he asked if he could make a comment. I'm giving him the keyboard now.

a message from Alex, AFD

Your avatar is very offensive to real Fire Fighters. Your not really a Fire Fighter are you? To imply you would do any less than your best because you do not agree with someones politics is criminal. If I knew where your station is I would be on the horn to your Chief faster than you can say boo! If you are a Fire Fighter please quit before you cause harm. If you can not control your emotions you are not fit to serve.

What he just said makes sense to me. I don't want my life in the hands of a fanatic!

This isn't a movie, where "to fight a monster you must become a monster".

I've done my duty in combat. The POWs my unit took were not tortured by our unit. And this Abu Ghraib torture is a joke; if you think getting barked at, having your books destroyed, or making naked human pyramids is torture, get the hell off the internet.

Real torture is what our President contracts out to spooks, men who have no soul, or at least no conscience. If they can't break the man, they use their child. Beating a man's son in front of him, electrocuting the child, putting the man's son's testicles in a vice grip, until the man confesses of something.

That is torture. As a parent, and as other parents know, getting to my children is the ultimate torture. Forget college-initiation-style crap that everyone makes a big deal of. Look deeper into the things that matter.

If you pass a law dealing with enemy combatants, you must ask yourself how this law would effect your soldiers, were the roles reversed. Would you want your own soldiers to be waterboarded? Electrocuted? Beaten? Witness the same done to their children?

Also, if I understand correctly, this is the law which also grants retroactive immunity to the entire Bush administration, pardoning them for any and every crime they might be charged with during their time. Think about that, it says a hell of a lot. If no crimes and moral violations are being committed, why is that there? Because they know the difference between defending the country and becoming a monster, and they're afraid.

And before you agree with me, marinade on the reality of the situation. You might think it's so damn cool that I'm posting something similar to what you're saying, but consider the paranoia, pain and death that have replaced our constitution. It's sick, and listening to the National Anthem is sad when it should be proud.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by Astygia]

Originally posted by dgtempe
For those who still think there will be an election, there might be a mock one, but that's all.
This man will find the way to stay in power, which is exactly why he's coming up with all this. He's not going anywhere.

For those of you who live under the delussion that all will be fine, i got news for you. It wont.

Remeber that in 2 years when we have a new president getting elected. Bush will not be there for another term. All may not be fine but he's not going to be our president till the end of time.

This war doesn't follow the GC anyway. Those we are in this war with do not wear uniforms nor do they follow GC rules, so bye this bill passing it doesn't change anything really. The GC is not apart of this war.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas

Originally posted by dgtempe
For those who still think there will be an election, there might be a mock one, but that's all.
This man will find the way to stay in power, which is exactly why he's coming up with all this. He's not going anywhere.

For those of you who live under the delussion that all will be fine, i got news for you. It wont.

Remeber that in 2 years when we have a new president getting elected. Bush will not be there for another term. All may not be fine but he's not going to be our president till the end of time.

With the extreme actions that have been implemented in his 6yrs of president, I feel 2 more years are going to really be the backbreaker.

Look at these people, they can barely control there glee as they sign the documents ensuring there immunity, and powers to detain.

look at your american dictatorship!

This law is bad news. The trick is that someone is going to play political games with it and say "so and so didn't support our troops and people because they didn't vote for this", when really this is just a very poorly worded and interpretable law that needs to be voted against.

Most of the time I support doing all we can to terrorize the terrorist...but not this one. This one opens the door too easily to abuse the innocent.