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North Korea Says Sanctions = Declaration of War!!!

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posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher
Title is still bogus and I assume it was ejected from ATSNN for that very reason.


You think so huh??

o.k. then Regenmacher... I just successfully tested a rather feeble nuke but a nuke none the less and I consider your post on this thread a declaration of war and if you post anything further I warn you of "merciless blows"...

So answer me this...

That is not Clear and Present Danger - STATE OF WAR??

in addition.....

BBC NEWS has now altered the title of their story to...

.N Korea says sanctions 'are war'



North, South Korea and the US still remain legally at war since the Korean War.
en.wikipedia.org...


legal in who's eyes?? If USA had attacked NK before this point and then when the Un questioned them about what happened they said "well hold on it's legal see... I've got this bit of paper that said so...."

it wouldn't cut it.... especially after the us has jumped the UN gun on Iraq.



This story is but a propagandized drum roll or excuse for another DPRK nuke test.


The second test I fear will be larger than the first, though an insider had said that first test was not a complete success as it was a lot smaller an explosion than was expected.

I don't think it's propaganda at all, this was a statement from official NK sources that only echoes what nk's envoy stated at the UN when sanctions were passed unanimously.

I think that NK it's self is not the problem here though but the wider picture looks gloomy with China and Russia with direct interests in NK it will not be an easy case of go in bomb and all will be o.k.

There are some serious power lines set to be severed here and the power vacuum that NK may create will trouble us all for generations to come.

All the best,

NeoN HaZe

[edit on 17-10-2006 by Neon Haze]




posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 05:57 AM
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NK had better take a look around and take stock of thier situation. Look across the sea at Japan. They are what happens when you mess with the US. True, they're doing great now, but that's after being hit with two atomic bombs during the Second World War.

The UN won't do anything. I don't know of a single resolution that they've actually upheld by force successfully in the past 40 years. The UN is a useless, dead organization that needs to be dissolved.

TheBorg



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 06:13 AM
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Someone mentioned out of control? What about our leader? He is spending billions needlessly and raping our treasury to fund a needless war and changing laws to suit his administrations purposes and needs.


As far as China ceasing the sales of arms and weapons to NK, why should they?Just because they pissed us off? This is where double standards will come in handy for other countries to use against us in times of need. We supply certain Middle Eastern countries with weapons that are used illegally and to the disdain of the international community wether China, Russia or anyone else disapproves of it, so how can anyone look down upon China? This goes out especially to the people complaining about this non-action by China , who support our supplying arms to a country that is a thorn in the side of our adversaries. If we expect people to do right by us, then we must do likewise and not beat around the bush and protect our friends just because they bribe a few politicians.



Pie



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by Astygia
Is it just me or is this turning out like a really bad episode of Pinky and the Brain?



LMAO!!!!
Exactly!!!!

I must say though, I do hope that IF we go to war, we will just take out crazy kim. I know this is quite mushy of me, but those poor people have been through enough having him as a leader. For crying out loud, they have thought they were at war for a long time. They have no tv other than what he says they can watch. No internet. No link at all what so ever to the outside world. Granted that makes them kind of dangerous, but at the same time, its not their fault. Maybe that is why China and Russia are going so easy on him. They dont want those people to starve to death all because crazy kim wants to take over the world.

But, you know, that is my view of the world through my pretty little rose colored glasses.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by Neon Haze
o.k. then Regenmacher... I just successfully tested a rather feeble nuke but a nuke none the less and I consider your post on this thread a declaration of war and if you post anything further I warn you of "merciless blows"...


The little dog barks a lot, but hasn't bitten in over 50 years.

The North Koreans have been warning the US, since the ceasefire was signed in July of 1953 and North Korea has little ability to strike "merciless blows" on the US. The DPRK wants the US to pull out of South Korea and some financial conscessions, which has been their primary goals in this intimidation and propaganda game, not ways to commit suicide.




Kim can be bribed to give up his missiles
by Aaron L. Friedberg

Whatever his quirks, Kim is also a cunning and rational strategist with one overriding objective: ensuring his own survival by maintaining an absolute grip on power. The only way to move him is by confronting him with a stark choice -- turn over existing nuclear weapons, dismantle production facilities and submit to rigorous international inspections, or face a steadily rising risk of overthrow and untimely death. This demand can be sweetened with promises of aid and peace pacts, but in the end Kim needs to be presented with an offer he cannot refuse.

Aaron L. Friedberg is a professor at Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School and a former deputy assistant for national security affairs to U.S. Vice-president Dick Cheney.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



Propaganda -Wiki

The aim of propaganda is to influence people's opinions or behaviors actively, rather than merely to communicate the facts about something.

Is the Bush Doctrine Dead? by Patrick J. Buchanan

We should engage in direct negotiations with the North, warning them that any export of a nuclear device to a hostile regime risks an attack by the United States and any nuclear weapon used against Americans, anywhere, traceable to North Korea will bring certain and massive nuclear retaliation.

However, in return for ironclad assurances they have opened up all nuclear programs to inspection and given up further development of nuclear weapons, we should offer the North Koreans diplomatic ties, economic aid, and a security pact sealed with a U.S. withdrawal of forces from the Korean peninsula.

Great though its crimes, Kim's regime will never equal in evil those of Josef Stalin or Mao, both of whom had nuclear arsenals greater than Kim can ever achieve – and America never went to war with either. Meanwhile, put the bellicose bluster on the shelf. It has done less than nothing to advance America's security.



Originally posted by Neon Haze
So answer me this...

That is not Clear and Present Danger - STATE OF WAR??


There's always danger and the reality is you're more likely to get killed in an auto accident than by Jong's current test batch of nuclear kimchi. Declaring war on combustion engines would save more lives..

There won't be any attacks on the DPRK unless they initiate a major attack. Meanwhile, China will let North Korea continue their intimidation gambit, because they know the US can not risk severing ties with China when most of the our production capability has been outsourced to Asia, China supports US debt, and without China's support the US economy would collapse. Technically, any financial concessions would be coming from China via USA, since the US debtor class doesn't make much of nothing but more debt.


China's Reserves Near Milestone, Underscoring Its Financial Clout WSJ

The latest data from the U.S. Treasury Department show that, as of June 2005, China's public and private sectors held a total of at least $527.3 billion in U.S. securities, including about $450 billion of long-term U.S. Treasury or agency debt. The composition of its dollar assets suggests that China is a more sophisticated portfolio manager than Japan, which is believed to keep a larger fraction of its $881 billion in reserves in short-term U.S. securities. But the Treasury's figures may underestimate China's holdings because the U.S. government can't always identify the ultimate owner of its debt.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Russia Supports North Korea in Nuclear War
Washington Post, United States - Oct 6, 2006

MAD still applies even if all of Asia develops nuclear weapons and I have yet to see anyone stuff the nuke genie back in the bottle. So what are we really losing by pulling out of South Korea and helping feed the North Koreans? Some pride?



[edit on 17-10-2006 by Regenmacher]



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by Neon Haze
o.k. then Regenmacher... I just successfully tested a rather feeble nuke but a nuke none the less and I consider your post on this thread a declaration of war and if you post anything further I warn you of "merciless blows"...


The little dog barks a lot, but hasn't bitten in over 50 years.


I totally agree with you on that point but then he hasn't had nukes the last 50 years either. think he would have used them back in the Korean war if he had them!!

Oh and by the way. I just nuked your house!!!


but since I was only threatening before the effects of the blow aren't as bad now are they?? as we aren't at war even though you may consider that action a declaration.

All the best,

NeoN HaZe



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 03:36 PM
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mrsdudara, I wouldn't say that's a mushy goal. While lil' Kim has people fly to neighboring countries to bring him McDonald's, a large portion of his population are starving.

I would imagine that military gameplans are attempting to focus on Kim and nuclear targets in particular.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 06:09 PM
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It's true that little Kim is mostly bluster right now. But he certainly is asking for the wrong kind of attention with his 4th of July missile launches and his nuclear tests.

It would be unwise, however, to pass this off as nothing to worry about. Although I don't believe the sanctions will be very effective, they are necessary to show him that the world is united against these aggressive moves. Except for Iran, of course.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by CX
I think theres a very fine line between actualy declaring war and saying something a is a declaration of war. [/quote[]
Its a fine line alright, so fine that its not really going to matter when they start nuking people.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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[[DELETED POST]]

My comment was not exactly similar to fact.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by MasterRegal]



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 08:06 PM
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you know what im sick of our pres. when is there gonna be a new election? didnt george washingtons precident also say that we shouldnt get involved in foreign relations? look what he got us into, we are at literally 6 wars. with IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, HEZBOLLAH, AL QUEDA, TALIBAN, and almost NORTH KOREA. we should just stop being nosy as # and just stay out of their business. iraq had its own problems until we got involved with them. now the war on terror i understand, why even go to war with iraq if they didnt do anything to us. sure they had a #ty dictator but that was their problem not ours. Iran, also we keep telling them, to stop all nuclear activity but they wont and they aren getting madder at us.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by TeH PwNeR
you know what im sick of our pres. when is there gonna be a new election? didnt george washingtons precident also say that we shouldnt get involved in foreign relations? look what he got us into, we are at literally 6 wars. with IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, HEZBOLLAH, AL QUEDA, TALIBAN, and almost NORTH KOREA. we should just stop being nosy as # and just stay out of their business. iraq had its own problems until we got involved with them. now the war on terror i understand, why even go to war with iraq if they didnt do anything to us. sure they had a #ty dictator but that was their problem not ours. Iran, also we keep telling them, to stop all nuclear activity but they wont and they aren getting madder at us.


Unfortunately, it is our inherited responsiblility as the world's superpower. But don't worry, that will be China's job in 20-30 years.

The fact is, it will be irresponsible to forget about foreign relations. Forgetting about it does not solve any problems and can even let the problems grow.

BTW, the US is officially and legally not at war with any country on this planet (with the exception of outstanding treaties from WWII).



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher
Title is still bogus and I assume it was ejected from ATSNN for that very reason.

North, South Korea and the US still remain legally at war since the Korean War.
en.wikipedia.org...


Oh Thank you Lord!!!! I was getting so sick of repeating myself. We have a "cease
fire" with NK people, we are still at war! What is this a second or third declaration of war? Is it like double secret probation? Ahhhhhhhh...



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 08:30 PM
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no our job is to make sure their is peace, and no war, after all this is sort of looking like the NWO, because of the fact that we are the worlds superpower but we also need to know that this isnt right. and that we should just take our nosy ass out of all those countries. what are we gonna do when ww3 starts? nothing, because our soliders have been sacrificed enough in iraq.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 04:11 AM
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I understand why some people are freaking out a little over NK getting a bit above itself with the nuke test and threats of war etc...

but...

Why does America feel the need to carpet bomb every country that has different views than the US? Let them rattle their new nuke capability... it's not like they've actually done anything wrong with it yet. The US spent years testing nukes when other countries didn't agree with it. Just because we consider some states to be 'rogue' it doesn't mean we should have the right to flatten them. Sure, if they launch any kind of attack, then you can retaliate...but please remember there are millions of innocent people living in North Korea who hate Kim as much as you do....they don't need bombing, just liberating from him. And that doesn't mean toppling Kim to be replaced by an 'approved' new leader drafted in by the US. Let them elect one of their own...it might not be much better, but that's what has to happen.

Jusy my view...

R
PS. I'm British.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 04:29 AM
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Rapture404

I noticed you said you were British. Where in Britain do you live? What ethnic origin are you? and is your point of view common there???

The reason I ask this is that I'm English and I can certainly say that the majority of my friends and family take the exact opposite view to yours.

All the best,

NeoN HaZe.

P.s. Not saying your point of view is invalid, just I don't agree with it.


[edit on 18-10-2006 by Neon Haze]



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 04:54 AM
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You're saying you and the majority of people you know think it's ok to bomb innocent people? You think it's ok to strike first to prevent something which might not ever happen?

That worries me. What kind of upbringing makes you want to be so violent without provocation?

I'm all for taking out NK's military should they make any kind of strike...but bombing another country to make a point? Hasn't Iraq and Afghanistan taught you anything?

fyi - Over 100,000 civillians have died since the start of the war in Iraq...46% of which were under 15 years old. That's not right is it? We were supposed to help them.

And if it matters... i'm from north London of a regular non-religious background. My family are all military..have been for generations.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 05:29 AM
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Originally posted by Neon Haze
I totally agree with you on that point but then he hasn't had nukes the last 50 years either. think he would have used them back in the Korean war if he had them!!

Oh and by the way. I just nuked your house!!!

There's no warning or air raid siren when a car t-bones you at 100kph.
I would suggest you don't start pre-emptively shooting auto drivers even if statistics
indicate other drivers are more likely to kill you than a foreign dictator.

DPRK has tons of biological and chemical WMD's since 1954 and has yet to use them. Mao had nukes and he was as venomous to the US, as Jong could only hope to be.

North Korea - Special Weapons Guide globalsecurity.org

Jong has nothing to gain from nuking his neighbors. He likes American porn, imported wine and sushi too much to risk losing it all in a fit of sucidal stupidity.

I remember when we projected the stereoptype of the Soviet Union as reckless, stupid and suicidal fools too. It helped gain funding for the cold war in order to build all those nukes. Now we have enough to blow the entire planet up a few dozen times. What a waste that was.


Duck and cover -wiki

Every generation has its own boogyman in the age of propaganda, fear and hate.

______________________________________


Originally posted by Rapture404
fyi - Over 100,000 civillians have died since the start of the war in Iraq...46% of which were under 15 years old. That's not right is it? We were supposed to help them.


An estimated 654,965 additional people died in Iraq between March 2003 and July 2006.
Johns Hopkins Gazette, MD


650,000+ dead iraqis, and dropping the bomb on Nagasaki killed 73,884...just goes to show you you can kill more civilians by conventional means and still spread radiation with DU. So who's really been doing the nuking here?





[edit on 18-10-2006 by Regenmacher]



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by Rapture404
You're saying you and the majority of people you know think it's ok to bomb innocent people? You think it's ok to strike first to prevent something which might not ever happen?


No I am saying the majority of my friends and family believe that the developed world has a responsibility to divert potentially dangerous situation by what ever means are necessary.

If that means taking away a potential threat by force then that is our responsibility.

The alternative. We become passive and allow the other developing countries to take control of the situation. Anyone for a world where NK has more say in the direction the world goes in? or how about a world where Muslim Extremists are given validity because no one is willing to stand up and say NO.


That worries me. What kind of upbringing makes you want to be so violent without provocation?


You claim you are British but to ask that question makes it clear you are not from here originally.

Perhaps you have forgotten England’s history??

IRA..... Falklands....Iraq......Bosnia.....1st and 2nd World Wars....... Etc Etc Etc....


I'm all for taking out NK's military should they make any kind of strike...but bombing another country to make a point? Hasn't Iraq and Afghanistan taught you anything?


So you would wait until they strike first.... you mean you want to see another nuke go off in Japan???????

It's not about making a point as you put it. And for your information the NK military 99.99% made up fo civilians that joined for the need of food. Not because they agree with the ideals of KIM....

What is needed is a much more direct approach.


fyi - Over 100,000 civilians have died since the start of the war in Iraq...46% of which were under 15 years old. That's not right is it? We were supposed to help them.


I think the numbers have been addressed else where by regenmacher.

The fact is that the majority of the deaths in Iraq have not been directly caused by the coalition, they have been caused by the Iraqi people themselves!!!


And if it matters... I’m from north London of a regular non-religious background. My family are all military. have been for generations.


Not from Finsbury Park are you??? I wonder which military.... And for a military background you seem to have a very passive stance.

All the best,

NeoN HaZe.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by Rapture404
I understand why some people are freaking out a little over NK getting a bit above itself with the nuke test and threats of war etc...

but...

Why does America feel the need to carpet bomb every country that has different views than the US?

NK doesn't have a different view, they have nuke weapons that can vaporize cities.

They are saying that they consider the sanctions an act of war.

Does anyone think that NK is going to respond to having war brought upon them by not responding??


Let them rattle their new nuke capability... it's not like they've actually done anything wrong with it yet.

The US should 'let' people threaten to destroy it (thats what 'rattling' is, threatening to destroy), just ignore it?


The US spent years testing nukes when other countries didn't agree with it. Just because we consider some states to be 'rogue' it doesn't mean we should have the right to flatten them.

OF course it does.

Sure, if they launch any kind of attack, then you can retaliate.

If they nuke our cities, we have the right to respond. How nice of you to grant us that.

Better to nuke their cities into oblivion than have any of ours nuked.



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