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I can only ignore 10 posters but at least 20 are behaving badly

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posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 05:22 PM
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A super-mod once explained to me that disciplinary decisions are made without anybody being notified except for the person being disciplined. This was done because there is really no good reason for anyone to know about what discipline is being dished out, even the person who made the complaint.

This makes perfect sense to me. Disciplinary actions are between the staff and the member being disciplined. It actually affords us members a bit of privacy, if you think about it. Our dirty laundry is not being aired in public.

An ATS court would strip us of this privacy. It would publicize the details of everyone involved. More problems would arise than would be solved by a court.

My vote, if we had one, which we don't, would be NAY on the topic of ATS courts.




posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:08 PM
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Mediation was only a suggestion I made. It is amazing how people are getting so defensive.

Yet, I have three things to say:

1)No, not every problem would be solved. But, the forum would be a safe and neutral venue for people not wanting to u2u their accuser. For the accuser, the accusee would be humanized in the attempt to discuss the conflict in question with an impartial mediator. It has nothing to do with dragging your business out in the open. It does have to do with wanting the matter solved once and for all without it being dragged out month after month. It must get tiring for both the accuser and the accusee to keep up this game of warfare thread after thread.


2)I would start a thread regarding a forum involving this matter, but I'm a little gun shy. Some members were so harsh and unrelenting during my last proposal for a forum that I'm afraid that there will not be any sense of civility for the issue to be given respect while discussed cleanly. However, I would request that someone else who would think this would be a good idea to propose the forum.

3)With sixty thousand members and a small-sized staff and Admnistration, I would think that mediation would be another way to effectly help the mods and supermods do their job of policing the board. They can't watch everyone at the same time. And for the members who do want to see their dispute settled in a public arena, they have an appropriate outlet to slow down, list their grievances and find a proper answer why the "accuser" had gone below the belt at them instead of stay on topic. The "accuser" would have to face their crimes and be compelled to make some sort of appropriate restitution that would hopefully help restore things to normal and help the mods feel less overwhelmed from their hard work of helping keep order here.

But from reading the positions against this idea, it is as if people are afraid to make any sort of apology. Is it more acceptable for people to do their dirt and go on about their business?



[edit on 16-10-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
3)With sixty thousand members and a small-sized staff and Admnistration, I would think that mediation would be another way to effectly help the mods and supermods do their job of policing the board. They can't watch everyone at the same time. And for the members who do want to see their dispute settled in a public arena, they have an appropriate outlet to slow down, list their grievances and find a proper answer why the "accuser" had gone below the belt at them instead of stay on topic. The "accuser" would have to face their crimes and be compelled to make some sort of appropriate restitution that would hopefully help restore things to normal and help the mods feel less overwhelmed from their hard work of helping keep order here.



The bold, WHY? Why do disputes have to be dealt with in public? Past practice has shown that this has been nothing less than disruptive. Have you seen the polarity on the board? Right, wrong no longer matters. It's all about agenda. How does that advance the site for ALL members?


But from reading the positions against this idea, it is as if people are afraid to make any sort of apology. Is it more acceptable for people to do their dirt and go on about their business?


What does this mean? I'm not getting the point.

The Complaints button remains the BEST avenue for disputes imo.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:19 PM
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Fair enough, intrepid. I was only making a suggestion. But it seems that in the effort to express myself, my thoughts and observances get constantly misconstrued despite the fact I make the effort to be clear and concise about what I mean.

I respect your way about it. But, by all due respect, I think mediation should be discussed more and thought about seriously. However, it does not mean that this is the only way to solve matters.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:22 PM
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Sometimes it feels like everyone has me on ignore



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz
Sometimes it feels like everyone has me on ignore


Believe me, I know how you feel.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz
Sometimes it feels like everyone has me on ignore


Me too, and you know, as far as I am aware, it's only the one person.



[edit on 16/10/06 by Implosion]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:35 PM
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Maybe the problem goes beyond using the Complaint and ignore button. Some people don't get the message after they are told again and again to stop.

Mediation would be a way to discuss the issue politely, under supervision and with the full intent of finding a sense of closure to the problem. I would believe that a lot of people would like the conflicts they have with others stopped. And mediation is a way to do it and have documented proof that the problem was dealt with by those in charge and the members in question. Then, there would be something written down of what has been agreed upon that both members have to follow or else it would be in violation of the policies enforced by this board.

I think it is an idea--if entertained by people who will truly respect this idea and give it thought--that could have promise. I am very sorry that there are those that view this inquiry negatively. I just wanted to suggest an alternative to the "Ignore" button--especially to enhance other options before resorting to something drastic as the "Complaint" button. It never hurts to have too many options to get redress for a problem.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
Some people don't get the message after they are told again and again to stop.




You don't say?

[edit on 16/10/06 by Implosion]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:46 PM
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Okay.


It's all right not to entertain the issue of mediation and even ridicule the idea. That's okay with me.

Perhaps it would be time to turn over this question of mediation to others who can put on a good case in either the pro and con stance. Maybe if there are two members that can adopt each position and weigh the possibilities of mediation in both a positive or negative light.

Sometimes it helps if we can get other people to weigh this option as an alternative to the "Complaint" and "Ignore" button.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
Maybe the problem goes beyond using the Complaint and ignore button. Some people don't get the message after they are told again and again to stop.


To stop what? And who's point is it?


Mediation would be a way to discuss the issue politely, under supervision and with the full intent of finding a sense of closure to the problem. I would believe that a lot of people would like the conflicts they have with others stopped. And mediation is a way to do it and have documented proof that the problem was dealt with by those in charge and the members in question. Then, there would be something written down of what has been agreed upon that both members have to follow or else it would be in violation of the policies enforced by this board.


I think you've just successfully explained the use of the Complaints button. Again, why does board biz need to be public matter?


I think it is an idea--if entertained by people who will truly respect this idea and give it thought--that could have promise. I am very sorry that there are those that view this inquiry negatively. I just wanted to suggest an alternative to the "Ignore" button--especially to enhance other options before resorting to something drastic as the "Complaint" button. It never hurts to have too many options to get redress for a problem.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by ceci2006]


The Complaints button is "drastic"? I wouldn't say so, I used it many time before being a staff member. BTW, a complaint is discussed by the staff, we are not always in agreement but once ANY issue is looked at by the staff, discussed WITH THE T&C IN MIND, a biggie there
, could the membership do that? THEN action is either taken or not. Maybe the Complaint has no merit.

How would a PUBLIC discussion of said issues benefit the site? It would become a total bitchfest imo. Taking away for discussion and seperating the members. Counter productive.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 06:51 PM
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Do you know how mediation works?

Let me run it by you. In the real world, both parties would be present. I would ask each party what the grievance is. I would then talk to each of the parties alone, to come to some kind of resolution. I would then ask the parties to come in together and present the resolution to them. At this point, they can choose to come to a compromise, which is binding and legal to present to a judge, or we can have a second round until we reach a resolution. Should one be reached, they sign the resolution, and its something they must adhere to. If they "breach" the contract...they get to go in front of the

REAL JUDGE.....How do you propose to do that here???

[edit on 16-10-2006 by dgtempe]
Edited to add content and not delete.


[edit on 16-10-2006 by dgtempe]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:00 PM
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Well people are all upset about aliens invading our world and because I met some aliens and liked them loads of people flame at me with all their fears and hatred of death and slavery etc. So I needed a larger ignore limit to be able to talk with the more moderate posters. But now the moderators, as usual, have become infected by reading all the flaming directed against me, and they are sacrificing me to appease the mob. They have demanded proof that I met aliens or they are going to deal swiftly with me. So this is probably my last post on ATS as they have probably u2u'd each other about banning me.

It's been nice knowing some of you.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:01 PM
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Fair enough again, intrepid, but I think that this site has already become a bitchfest, by all due respect. There are some people who feel that they can say anything to ridicule other members without facing any sort of impunity. People can press the "Complaint" button all they want. But what is publicly done in order to show that a redress regarding this behavior has been made?

With no public statement regarding how the accuser has wronged the accusee, things continue on with the same, old usual business. No one will think any differently. The same behavior goes on.

It's not the details of the case that need to be out in the open. However, there needs to be a public acknowledgement of what happened and the actions paid to rectify such actions in order to produce a climate of change between members. Then instead of just "relating the behavior", actually produce an action for all members. actually I think there needs to be an impact on circumventing this problem between members.

But, I guess it's popular to pick on other members and ridicule them without feeling a sense of empathy or guilt. People can grow a thick skin all they want. But it won't stop the ones who are totally ruthless in their words and actions to make another poster feel unwelcome without any sort of purpose. And without any notable action to demonstrate what the accuser is doing wrongly, the message gets conveyed that ridiculing and harassing others is acceptable behavior.

I don't think there is one person on the board that would tolerate this. So, what else but mediation would help make a point to other members that their complaints are actually heard and taken seriously with some dramatization of some sort of redress for grievances?

About mediation in general, I tried to write out some possible ways that it might work on the last page. However, I will give this idea a bit more thought and answer your question, dg. It is a great question to ask about the possibilities and deficiencies of such an inquiry.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

probedbygrays, I'm sorry that this has happened to you. But, you have to realize that it isn't the members who make the decision about who gets to be banned. It is the staff and administration who does. Other members can wish about you being banned all they want. However, by being here shows them that your ideas are just as important and acceptable as theirs are.

Take good care.





[edit on 16-10-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:30 PM
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Let me preface this that EVERYTHING on ATS is guided by the T&C, the staff are not imune to this. That makes for a very strong community.


Originally posted by ceci2006
Fair enough again, intrepid, but I think that this site has already become a bitchfest, by all due respect.


I don't see that and I'm in on as much action in the operation of the board as anyone. Sure there's some members, new and old, that push the envelope but they are dealt with by the T&C.


There are some people who feel that they can say anything to ridicule other members without facing any sort of impungnity. People can press the "Complaint" button all they want. But what is publicly done in order to show that a redress has been made?


Say what you will but the staff WILL deal with it by the rules. AGAIN, why does it have to be "publicly done" either than the obvious red flags that fly once someone has gone over the line? Not getting this ceci. You seem to have this thought that there should be a certain venue for vindication.


With no public statement regarding how the accuser has wronged the accusee, things continue on with the same, old usual business. No one will think any differently. The same behavior goes on.


Nope, the T&C still rules, bottom line.


It's not the details of the case that need to be out in the open. However, there needs to be a public acknowledgement of what happened and the actions paid to rectify such actions in order to produce a climate of change between members.


Are YOU saying that we need to change the T&C? It's been working so far. I think that staff actions are pretty open. Unless it's extremely overt, a verbal warning is given, up to the member(s) whether they want to comply.


But, I guess it's popular to pick on other members and ridicule them without feeling a sense of empathy or guilt. People can grow a thick skin all they want. But it won't stop the ones who are totally ruthless in their words and actions to make another poster feel unwelcome without any sort of purpose. And without any notable action to demonstrate what the accuser is doing wrongly, the message gets conveyed that ridiculing and harassing others is acceptable behavior.


Now it's personal. You are saying that the staff are NOT doing their jobs. That's BS. I'm speaking for myself here and I'm speaking out for my fellow staff members. We work DAMN hard, FOR FREE, to give you this venue for you.


I don't think there is one person on the board that would tolerate this. So, what else but mediation would help make a point to other members that their complaints are actually heard and taken seriously with some dramatization of some sort of redress for greviances?


Are you intentionally calling the staff out? We don't take "their complaints are actually heard and taken seriously"? We sure as hell do.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:38 PM
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Intrepid,

I need you to start filling out Workorders.
We really need to track your time, and the other mod's time on here.




posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by spacedoubt
Intrepid,

I need you to start filling out Workorders.
We really need to track your time, and the other mod's time on here.



Are you talking about a paycheck?


I'm in.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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Spacedoubt,

Your avatar cracked me up


Awww, that is good.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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Am I the only one that considers this "Mediation" idea as a "Public Flogging?"

Intrepid,

If you can share with us; just a "Ball Park" figure of how many complaints are "ONE" timers?

i.e. You warn them once via U2U and they cease and desist?

How many do you think would continue if you "aired" their laundry and they felt chastised in the public arena?

1st rule of Discipline from the Marine NCO school..

"Discipline is , SWIFT, CERTAIN and PRIVATE."

Semper



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:47 PM
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intrepid, I have not said anything different. I believe that everyone one on staff works here very hard and they do a terrific job. I just feel that there ought to be public venue for vindication, especially when other posters have toiled in defaming, misconstruing and ridiculing the ideas of another.

Perhaps, people who have their ideas ridiculed should be able to freely address their points to the rest of the community in order to have them respected without having the usual gang of people ridicule and laugh at them. A place for "mediation" could handle this area as well. Unless there is already a forum that will give equal time to people who can examine what they propose without the threat of having their thread closed down.

It is not a public flogging. It is a coming of terms and settling a dispute once and for all. This settlement would be hashed out in a supervised format ensuring that both sides have their terms of agreement met. There's nothing wrong with this.

Besides punishment , for people to be placed by others in authority as a deterrent is never private. People get arrested, taken to court, and also have some of their records regarding the crime in a public format. In fact, their arrest records become part of statistics.

Punishment--especially in the form of the documentary--has never been private. Execution, in the past, wasn't private either. There are many photos, paintings and drawings which portray the demise of a criminal with a group of people standing around watching him or her. As inhumane as these measures are, people are always watching another get punished.

I think it depends on which action is the acceptable option or not.

And that is what the conversation is about in terms of rectifying the notion of redress of grievances--opposed to plainly ignoring the person which, in effect, after thinking about it doesn't do anything. The accused must make a sort of acknowledgement of why they do the things they do. Then, the accusee would have some sort of answer why the accuser would go out of their way to make the accusee miserable.



[edit on 16-10-2006 by ceci2006]



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