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Veil Wearing Teacher 'Should be Sacked'

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posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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A local government minister of Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, has said that Muslim teaching assistant Aishah Azmi should be sacked for not taking her veil off in class.
 



news.bbc.co.uk
Earlier, Kirklees Council said she was asked to take off her veil in class at Headfield Church of England Junior School because the children had difficulty understanding her in English lessons.

"The children are aware of my body language, my eye expressions, the way I'm saying things." [Ms. Azmi said]

"If people think it is a problem, what about blind children? They can't see anything but they have a brilliant education, so I don't think my wearing the veil affects the children at all."


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Also, the local minister said that her refusal to take the veil off in the presence of males amounted to sexual discrimination, which I think is way over the top.

Why should Aishah Azmi have to ignore part of her religion to work in the UK? It's not like the veil would affect her teaching all that much, if at all. I'm sure half the kids are staring out the window half the time anyway.

What do other members think of this?

Related News Links:
uk.news.yahoo.com
www.irna.ir
www.leedstoday.net

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UM_Gazz]




posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 10:16 AM
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I dont get it.

What does wearing a veil have to do with sounds coming from her mouth?

Can she speak clearer without the veil? If i threw a veil over my head i would still

sound like myself.



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 10:35 AM
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So lets get this straight...

A Transvestite can have a sex change and go back to his school as a "She," but this teacher can't wear a veil?

MAN

What ever happened to "picking your battles?"

Semper



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 10:41 AM
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Hmm well I think it depends on a couple factors. If changing into a woman doesn't affect the kids learning ability, then ok -- however, i can't relate to muslims but i could see how the whole veil thing could escalate into a bit of a problem. Then, you also have the whole "health and safety" issue possibly

-------> img159.imageshack.us...

[edit on 15-10-2006 by SteveG]

[edit on 15-10-2006 by SteveG]



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 10:43 AM
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Is it possible that the veil makes it harder for the students to hear her speak?

They don't specify...

Still I don't think its that big of a deal...it can't make that much of a difference...

[edit on 10/15/2006 by Kacen]



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 10:43 AM
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Like I suppose this is not justified if we are trying to protect her religious rights, but usually in a school both students and teachers alike are restricted from wearing any kind of hat, visor, bandannas, or any other assortment of headgear/coverings. I would suppose this applies to viels as well.

Of course if we cannot infringe on her religious rights, we should also examine any other teachers or students in the country to be sure this is either being enforced equally. such as Jewish students or teachers being allowed or not to wear their little skull cap thingy.

I would not have a personal issue with it. It is likely to attract more attention from the students and help them focus actually.



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 11:02 AM
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Personally I am not bothered what religion people follow or how they dress according to that religion.

But just a few thoughts..........

First and foremost she is a teacher and her job is to teach children. Her religious beliefs should be put to one side.

The original news source states that some children had difficulty understanding her, which is obvious if you place something over your mouth.

She also talks about blind children.......well blind children have to be able to hear clearly, which would be made harder if something was covering her mouth.

Then there are deaf children who need to be able to see a teachers face, to see the teachers expressions and to see the teachers mouth as this aids the childrens ability to learn.

Some schools have a dress code for the children........maybe there should be a dress code for staff as well, some may have already.


Like I said.........just a few thoughts..............



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 01:53 PM
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Well my opinion is this....

She is living in the UK, I think it is only somewhat respectful to try to adapt to the customs of the country you are living in.


Edn

posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 04:51 PM
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Your all missing the point, schools all have a dress code and wearing religious items is for 90% of all public schools against the rules. If it were up to me all religious clothing/items would not be allowed in schools simply because it helps keep a neutral standpoint for the school to work from.

And there is a point that people who are hard of hearing wouldn't be able to understand her because they cant read her lips but thats besides the point anyway.



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 06:48 PM
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Well if it's not against the dress code, than I particularly would'nt
care if she wore it or not.

Though I should note, the veil would'nt or atleast should'nt be
considered protected by religion, since it's not technically a part
of Islam, rather it's something that was started in the last two
centuries.



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 09:20 PM
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According to the article referenced in this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The woman teaches language classes to many non-English speaking students. It's very important for the kids to see her lips and be able to see the enunciation of the words to learn the language. It's a bit like someone teaching sign language insisting on wearing mittens in class. (For whatever reason)

The children complained.

I have nothing against this woman wearing a veil (which the original article says is NOT mandatory in Islam) but if anything she is doing is getting in the way of her doing her job, then she should either comply or find another job.

She's perfectly free to wear her veil, just not while she's teaching this particular class. Read the original article and see what you think.


Blind children are irrelevent. These children aren't blind and use their sight as part of their learning experience.



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 10:56 PM
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Weither you agree with the employers stance or not, when your employed, you sign a contract which binds you to that employers rules and standards. Any other employee breaking these rules would either be warned, suspended or sacked on the spot.

Ask yourself, if you were an employer and an employee of yours did not go along with the rules or your company how would you react to the situation?

Would you suspend them or would you sack them?

This problem is not just happening in Schools it is hapenning in Hospitls as well so this is not an isolated case.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 01:25 AM
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This story is getting even bigger coverage today as it seems every politician and Muslim leader wants to get their say on the matter.

The woman in question is infact teaching in a English Christian School. So for one i would not agree with her infringing her Muslim beliefs onto a Christian bunch of kids.

2 this women refuses to work with men which means technically to say to all men in that school "you can work with her" would be sexual discrimination to the men. I know id rather have one women taking me to court for racial discrimination than 10 men taking me to court for sexual discrimination. I think the school is playing its cards right on this one.

Lastly as said before it is a christian school for English kids. These children have to be able to SEE what this woman is saying aswell as hearing her, phonetics is a big part of a language and SEEING the mouth when someone is talking helps a great deal. This woman wants to work in a Christian school then she should ditch the veil. How fortunate it was that this woman did not wear her veil for the interview for the job. She is obviously strictly religious so do we really want someone with those beliefs teaching in a Christian school i know i wouldnt.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 04:48 AM
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Not sure how accurate this is, but I have heard that she only began wearing the veil after Jack Straws comments the other day, as if to make a point.

Also, the veil os not mandatory in Islam. The only requirements the Koran makes on dress is to protect your modesty. The veil and burkha are cultural things, not religious.

This is, of course, open to interpretation, but it certainly doesn't insist that women wear tents.

It also applies to Islamic Men as well, but they don't seem to care about that themselves, it seems to only be applied to women, highlighting the sexism practiced by Muslims.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by thesaint
The woman in question is infact teaching in a English Christian School.


Can you post something that verifies this? A "Christian" school?



So for one i would not agree with her infringing her Muslim beliefs onto a Christian bunch of kids.


She's not pushing her beliefs onto Christian children. She's practicing her own beliefs (as far as we know.)



2 this women refuses to work with men


Again, is there a source for this information?



She is obviously strictly religious so do we really want someone with those beliefs teaching in a Christian school.


You certainly can speak for yourself, but I'm not sure where you get that "we" don't want someone with "those beliefs" teaching in a Christian school...

We don't have enough information in my opinion to declare the motives behind this incident. Has she been teaching for 5 years and just now the complaints come? Or as someone rumored, did she just begin wearing this veil? I think we need to know this before jumping on her too hard.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:47 AM
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Can you post something that verifies this? A "Christian" school?



Ms Azmi said she had never received complaints from pupils at Headfield Church of England Junior School, in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, but was told her veil could not be worn in class.


Hope That Helps:



2 this women refuses to work with men which means technically to say to all men in that school "you can work with her" would be sexual discrimination to the men. I know id rather have one women taking me to court for racial discrimination than 10 men taking me to court for sexual discrimination. I think the school is playing its cards right on this one.


Well she is the one refusing to take her veil off in front off her male colleagues.

She took the veil of in front off the children and female colleagues,
she is claiming Sexual Discrimination because of this.


Mr Woolas, a local government minister, told the newspaper that this amounted to sexual discrimination and called for her to be sacked.

Speaking later on the BBC's Politics Show he stopped short of repeating the call, but said he would defend the head teacher if Ms Azmi was sacked.

"The head teacher says that she's not able to do her job...and if the head teacher says that that's the action that needs to be taken, then so be it," he said.


Forgot to add Source:

Source BBC website

There is also a link to and Interview which she undertook with the bbc the link is on the page of the above link.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by spencerjohnstone]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:58 AM
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I'm confused... I can't find the following quote in the original link posted. This link must have been updated or something...


from the original post:



Earlier, Kirklees Council said she was asked to take off her veil in class at Headfield Church of England Junior School because the children had difficulty understanding her in English lessons.


Anyway, yes spencer, thanks for clearing that up.
The school did say it didn't have anything to do with religion. I wonder... if they had a problem with her being Muslim, why did they hire her in the first place???

I'd still really like to know the details of when this started, when the complaints started, etc. But I agree that if she can't do her job properly, she should find another one.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 09:05 AM
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Watch the video.

In the video, she said she doesn't refuse to remove the veil in front of children, just in front of men. But during the interview, which included a MAN, she didn't wear a veil.

She's outta there! And should be.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 09:23 AM
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I'm confused... I can't find the following quote in the original link posted. This link must have been updated or something...


Yes the site has been updated.

I would have to ask again, if you were an employer and and female employee of yours walked into work wearing a veil, you asked her to take it off, she refused how would Members, proceed with this?

Also this incident is not an Isolated case, Female Nurses/Students in certain Hospitals, have also been banned from wearing veils on wards, once I find the link I shall post it. And yes this debate is heating up. But funny enough I didnt see mutch about the issue on SkyNews or the BBC so far today, still early supposes.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 09:25 AM
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She can wear her veil in class as long as the fundamentalist christian kids can wear T-Shirts saying that abortion is murder and that gays are evil. Afterall ... if you allow one person in authority to shove their religion in front of young impressionable children, then the children should have a right to shove their religions right back at her.

Goes for the Jewish kids. If she, as a person of authority, wears her religious veil then the Jewish kids should all be allowed to wear their Yamulkas (spelling?) and to bring their prayer shawls etc etc.

Turnabout is fair play.

BTW ... If her veil covers her face then she should expect western society to have a problem with it. In western culture it is a sign of deceit to not show your face or your eyes. People who do that are traditionally not trusted. If she wants to be part of society, she'll just have to TOLERATE the long standing customs and traditions, won't she??




[edit on 10/16/2006 by FlyersFan]



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