Gorbachev Compares U.S. Foreign Policy to AIDS

Gorbachev says US is worse than AIDS due to 'The Victor's Complex'. Which he sees as a loss of diplomatic influence in favor of a more heavy handed 'my way or the highway' approach.



Very colorful language from Mr Gorbachev. I'm thinking he is representing his countries viewpoint to some extent. Which makes him a little less than biased.

That being said, I do think we in America suffer from what I call an 'Invincibility Complex'. Not taking threats seriously enough to engage them early and often. Thinking maybe that we don't need to because we can always fall back on the military option.

This 'lazy' mindset ends up leaving us with only a military option. Worse yet, if we're not willing to go all the way with that option, we put ourselves in a real bind.

[edit on 14-10-2006 by UM_Gazz]

Very colorful language from Mr Gorbachev. I'm thinking he is representing his countries viewpoint to some extent. Which makes him a little less than biased.

Mr Gorbachev lived (and still does) in California for over a decade and receives a pension from US government. His children and grandchildren grew up in USA. In Russia he is (very quietly) considered to be a traitor that plunged the entire nation into chaos, looting on the scale that has never been seen in the history of human civilization, and handed the broken nation over to a drunk to run into the ground. (Yeltsin).

Just think about it on the flip side. What if back in 1991 its USA, and not USSR that collapsed from economical, social and political sabotage, and Regan moved to let's say Leningrad to live on Kremlin's pension, and his children grew up speaking Russian, would we consider him a traitor?

That being said, I do think we in America suffer from what I call an 'Invincibility Complex'. Not taking threats seriously enough to engage them early and often. Thinking maybe that we don't need to because we can always fall back on the military option.

Agree entirely, and history clearly shows time and time again, that all such "invincibility" illusions are made up by the ones who are busy looting the nation blind.

We are right there, assured of our superiority while busy hands are cutting out the last of our change right out of our pockets. Not only that we are hopelessly in dept, but the children of our children will still be in dept.

This 'lazy' mindset ends up leaving us with only a military option. Worse yet, if we're not willing to go all the way with that option, we put ourselves in a real bind.

And that is exactly where we're going to bite our selves right on our own butts. While wasting astronomical amounts of tax dollars on super slick mind bogglers "cold war" style, that nobody simply believes in anymore anyway, our air fleet is pushing a quarter of a century, and is the oldest fleet in our history since 1947!

Silver bullet like F-22 at 340 mil a pop is a joke and simply does not fool anybody anymore, and who knows what will happen to much needed F-35, which is supposed to be the very pillar of our future air forces, all while our SEAD capacity is melting away faster that we can even comprehend, and over reliance on cheap GPS guided penny pincher's will inevitably boomerang since already just anybody can afford very effective GPS jammers.

Sure, the robotic future of UAV/FCS looks all nice and shiny, but we're already over 8 trillion in dept and counting, so who's going to be paying for that bright future? What, we're going to have Chinese/Taiwanese manufacturing our high tech on the cheap for us again while our own MIC rakes in our tax dollars as it always did?

"Today our American friends are suffering from an illness worse than AIDS. And I would say this is the victor's complex,"

Gorbachev is right, and when something like that is spoken by the last Premiere of the USSR, we better listen, because he knows first hand that goes.

edit:spl


[edit on 14-10-2006 by iskander]

posted by iskander
Mr Gorbachev lived (and still does) in California for over a decade and receives a pension from US government. His children and grandchildren grew up in USA. In Russia he is (very quietly) considered to be a traitor that plunged the entire nation into chaos, looting on the scale that has never been seen in the history of human civilization, and handed the broken nation over to a drunk to run into the ground. (Yeltsin).

I'm not sure your assessment of Gorbachev is completely correct. Yes, I'm sure they don't like him in Russia and it was smart to get him and his family out of there. But as far as him being the cause for what happened, I don't think so. He was just the one who was there when the communist house of cards came crashing down.

Gorbachev is right, and when something like that is spoken by the last Premiere of the USSR, we better listen, because he knows first hand that goes.

He can definitely give the perspective of a failed superpower!

He was just the one who was there when the communist house of cards came crashing down.

HimWhoHathAnEar, I do know a thing or two about how it went down, and it's not a topic for this thread. It's very similar to saying that the Twin Towers went down because planes crashed into them.

He can definitely give the perspective of a failed superpower!

Not exactly, it would be more accurate to say that he sure can give a perspective on how sophisticated methods of social engineering can completely sabotage an entire nation if every respect.

posted by iskander
I do know a thing or two about how it went down, and it's not a topic for this thread. It's very similar to saying that the Twin Towers went down because planes crashed into them.

Gorbachev, and his statements, are more or less the topic of this thread. I just don't think he deserves all the credit for the fall of the USSR. Most of it lie's with the US. A Cold War was fought and won. There was a definite winner and a definite loser. And in war of any kind, That's all that matters!

However, I think we find common ground in the fact that US diplomacy has gone astray to some extent. I just hope it can be turned around, for the World's sake.

Where we may not agree however, is in my opinion that the kind of diplomacy that I'm talking about is all encompassing. What you would think of as dirty pool maybe, or cheating. Back when we had human intelligence, these tactics were quite effective. Here's an old saying you probably won't like, All's Fair in Love & War!

[quote
Mr Gorbachev lived (and still does) in California for over a decade and receives a pension from US government. His children and grandchildren grew up in USA.

Is this true? Where can I find more information regarding this, please?

Gorbachev, and his statements, are more or less the topic of this thread. I just don't think he deserves all the credit for the fall of the USSR. Most of it lie's with the US.

Absolutely correct. The term to use here would be an accomplice.

A Cold War was fought and won. There was a definite winner and a definite loser. And in war of any kind, That's all that matters!

Yeah tell that to the Russian people, you know, the ones that pored out on the streets to oppose the Soviet rule and stood in front of tanks. They don't see it that way. In fact, after Bush senior declared a victory of sorts in not so many words, Russians were offended, and still are to this day. Precisely because they believed that the regime change in USSR was a necessity of peace in light of thermonuclear holocaust that the entire world was staring in the face, and not some victory that American politicians were quick to claim.

How would you feel, if you and the other guy were in a point to point gun stand of, and you are the one to say "this is ridiculous, we're both going to blow each others heads of, let's quit." And when you both put down your guns, the other guy turns around, and starts dancing around claiming victory.

Stuff like this does not just go away, and people sure remember when they get suckered like that.

However, I think we find common ground in the fact that US diplomacy has gone astray to some extent. I just hope it can be turned around, for the World's sake.

Agree absolutely. The real shame is that after the end of Cold War, we had and absolutely squandered the greatest weapon of them all, credibility. It's a damn shame.

Where we may not agree however, is in my opinion that the kind of diplomacy that I'm talking about is all encompassing. What you would think of as dirty pool maybe, or cheating. Back when we had human intelligence, these tactics were quite effective.

Diplomacy with out arms is like music with out instruments. It's the tune you play that matters, and the greatest orchestra in the world will end up as a bunch of noise when the conductor is some punk that wants to b!tch about his momma, mouth of to the entire world and use his middle finger for conducting the entire disaster.

[quote[Here's an old saying you probably won't like, All's Fair in Love & War!

It is indeed a good one. How about this one though, what if your kids are kidnapped and openly sold into sex slavery? Or for organ harvesting? What if your kids are pumped full of drugs sold on the market below cost as a weapon of social engendering?

All fair right? What if some rich guy rolls right in, and BUYS your wife, just for kicks, and then puts her into one of those catalogs fat losers like to drool over, you know, the ones you can pick and order a bride from?

HimWhoHathAnEar, how does all that sound?

And don't forget the ending to the "All's Fair in Love & War!", because it's "and payback is a b!tch."

It's in the "What goes around comes around" category. We're all soon to be introduced with that one on a national level.

deessell, try Google, a ton of info on that all over the place. Gorby is also known for making all kinds of payed "guest" appearances on Christian networks. TBN, and all other type of "Jesus Christ International Incorporated" type of nonsense.

I remember I''ve seen one in that giant glass Church they got going in Texas I think. Who knows, it was a long time ago.

Anyways, life goes on.

posted by iskander
All fair right? What if some rich guy rolls right in, and BUYS your wife, just for kicks, and then puts her into one of those catalogs fat losers like to drool over, you know, the ones you can pick and order a bride from?

That's why America is free (2nd Amendment).

[edit on 14-10-2006 by HimWhoHathAnEar]

That's why America is free (2nd Amendment).

Let's not confuse the ideals of a civilized society with the "law of the jungle". The 2nd Amendment is for (and by) gentlemen, not plundering opportunists which hold no regard for the law.

Well, that was a bit over the top...

only an ex soviet could say something like that

Well, that was a bit over the top...

So was the Secession of The South and the American Civil War.

"Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history." - Rings a bell?

only an ex soviet could say something like that

Try a registered Democrat, Los Angeles County.

And may I kindly ask, which part of the "Bible belt" would you be from?

Originally posted by iskander
Mr Gorbachev lived (and still does) in California for over a decade and receives a pension from US government. His children and grandchildren grew up in USA. In

I can find no evidence that Gorbachev lives or has ever lived in California or that he receives a pension from the US government.

Wikipedia and his own website state that he lives in Moscow.

In Time Magazine Gorbachev states that his pension is "40,000 rubles a month [about $1,400]."

The world owes a lot to Gorbachev for helping to end the Cold War and dismantling the Soviet Union, but his views are not gospel.

By the way, Pravda reported the AIDS analogy back in July, for what it's worth.


[edit on 2006/10/15 by GradyPhilpott]

First off, thanks Grady for the information, always valuable!

posted by iskander
Try a registered Democrat, Los Angeles County.

I hope you aren't representative of that demographic, but I fear you are.

I hope you aren't representative of that demographic, but I fear you are.

HimWhoHathAnEar, it's not really a proper way to answer a question, but yes, California is a Democratic state, always has been, and dare I ask again, why do you have such fear of Democracy, it being the very foundation of our great nation?

A definitive answer would be appreciated this time.

GradyPhilpott, I will find some time to dig around for the info on Gorby. In the 90s Gorby and his family did live in California, and as usual with high ranking political leaders, they have estates through out the world, and for obvious reasons.

In Time Magazine Gorbachev states that his pension is "40,000 rubles a month [about $1,400]."

Right, and in order for someone to actually believe that, they them selves must be making even less.

Fact - Moscow is one of the five most expensive cities in the world.
Fact - Russian PMC construction workers are paid a minimum of 65,000 rubles a month, or $2,400.

I guess somebody should have told Mr. Gorbachev that there's no future in politics, and its construction that he should have been going after.

posted by iskander
HimWhoHathAnEar, it's not really a proper way to answer a question, but yes, California is a Democratic state, always has been, and dare I ask again, why do you have such fear of Democracy, it being the very foundation of our great nation?

My apologie's, this is not the right forum for political banter. If you know of a thread in PTS please u2u me and we can discuss it there.

As far as Gorbachev, he has gained the respect of a great many in THIS country, and that's what makes his statements news worthy. IMO

Excellent move HimWhoHathAnEar, I'm certainly looking forward to such a discussion, and who knows, maybe even a debate.

As far as Gorbachev, he has gained the respect of a great many in THIS country, and that's what makes his statements news worthy. IMO

True, but as usual opinions do vary greatly, and in most cases it's simply a matter of taste, not fact and objectivity.

Like this one by Greg Reeson from Fort Lee for example;

www.californiachronicle.com...