Man charged with Assault for criticizing Cheney

Originally posted by esdad71

Also, he was NOT charged with assault, so you may want to change the title of this thread, since it is incorrect. Some of you are responding without reading the article. go figure

Actually, after three hours detention, they dropped the charges. So, obviously the man did nothing wrong if they dropped the charges. BTW, I did read the article.

Also, the officer stated to him that he was being charged with assault, so I'd say the title of the thread is correct. Unless you want the title changed to "man gets arrested for assault, then changed to harrasment, then charges dropped for critisizing Cheney". Would that be better?

Yes, and isn't it funny how many NAZIs were saved by America in Project Paperclip? Also, Prescott Bush, the father and grandfather of American Presidents, paid Hitler over 3 million dollars after America went to war with Germany.

Even worse, his son, George H.W. Bush, was in the air force fighting Germany when he gave 3 million to Hitler. Like what? Are you paying Hitler to kill your son, kill the Jews, or if your son does get captured that his death is quick and painless? That is one messed up family when your dad pays millions to a guy who is trying to kill you.

Esdad71
Also, he was NOT charged with assault, so you may want to change the title of this thread, since it is incorrect. Some of you are responding without reading the article. go figure

Did YOU read the article?

Let me hold your hand:

www.progressive.org...

“He grabbed me and cuffed my hands behind my back in the presence of my eight-year-old son and told me I was being CHARGED with assault of the Vice President,”Howards recalls.

If he was not charged with assault as you say what was the basis of this arrests and why was it stated that he was CHARGED in the article in question? What do YOU base your information on? (At this point I'll go with what the afformentioned article says)

Furthermore:

www.progressive.org...


At the jail, the CHARGE against him was reduced to HARASSMENT, he says, and he was released on $500 bond. The Eagle County DA’s office eventually dropped that CHARGE.

Esdad, I suggest YOU go read the article before responding further.

Very strange indeed.. You slam 'some' of us for not reading the article before responding when in reality it is you who either:

Didn't read it yourself and jumped to conclusions or,

Know something we don't and need to back it up.

Try again.

[edit on 14-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

The charges were dropped, so what is the big deal? He was NOT charged with assault, so now sure where your arguement came from. Do you understand the legal process. When they cuff you, they can say anything they want, but until they write the report and you are booked, you are not CHARGED. This is a scare tactic to use for confessions sometimes, threaten an arrest, iterrogate and then charge with a lesser offense or release.

Hold my hand, the kiss my ass. Go Cheney...go bush...Cindy Sheehan is the devil

[edit on 14-10-2006 by esdad71]

Originally posted by esdad71
The charges were dropped, so what is the big deal? He was NOT charged with assault, so now sure where your arguement came from.
[edit on 14-10-2006 by esdad71]

He was to, if he wasn't charged/arressted for Assault then why did the SS say he was being taken in for Assault? Or do you know more then the SS do?

A few weeks ago , Bush's Presidential motorcade drove right past where I was working after he visited the new, not so secret anti-terrorism complex off Lewinsville Road in Mclean VA.

It took every ounce of self preservation instinct for me not to flip him off as he drove by.

The 4 motorcycle police at the intersection also acted as a strong deterrent to my freedom of expression.

Semantics over how he was “charged” aside…

It seems to me that Dick got a little annoyed by Howard’s comments…after tumbling the words in his dome for a while he realized. Hey! I’m F’in Dick! No one talks to me like that! Especially a Howard!
So he sicks his SS dogs on him saying, “Hey you SS guy. That man just told me …lies* lies*…so what the beef are you doing just standing there! Letting people assault me ~ shii I’m Dick Cheney…”

So yeah. That’s my rendition of the events that transpired. These Dicks Cheny need to realize that we elected them to their position, however symbolically elections now are, and being in that position your bound to take a little flack…I guess when you think you rule the earth you do these sort of things…over exaggerating and such.

Originally posted by esdad71
The charges were dropped, so what is the big deal? He was NOT charged with assault, so now sure where your arguement came from.

He had chargres made against him in order for them to be dropped.

he was charged

Originally posted by SportyMB
the thing that I'm stuck on is why did the SS wait till after he walked off to arrest him?

Its possible that they figured he was comming back to start something. That, if he disagreed with Cheney, and had the 'nerve' to say it to his face, he must be some kinda aggitator, and then when he showed up again, that he was back for more.

OR, this SS guy "Gus" didn't hear about it til afterwards, likesay, the dude walked past again, and someone was like 'hey, there's that guy that told cheney he was wrong', and goold 'ol "Gus" just thought he had ot teach the guy a lesson.

I think there's a bit more to this story, I smell BS from Howard.

Or a nitwit SS agent.

marg6043
Well how about that girl in California that just got tired of Bush and said "kill bush" she got taken away by the secret police for committing a Federal offense now freedom of speech is a federal offense.

Marg, its allways been illegal to call for the death of a president, indeed, it should be. Of course, its kinda silly to arrest and prosecute someone that lost their cool and yelled it out too.

Also, Charges are not reduced at the police station, charges are filed at the time of arrest, so again, this is creative wording by the left to make this an issue.

How? The agent arrested him for 'assualting the VP', then by the end it was filed as 'harrasment'. Even harrassment is entirely unwarranted.

There is no violation of his rights, and he should be smarter than to run his mouth in front of his children.

Since there's no evidence that he did 'run his mouth', and he'd have the right to do so anyway (though I agree it'd be stupid to mouth off to a cop, even still, its permitable to teh VP or any other politician), we're left with no choice but to accept his statements. If this guy was ranting and raving, we'll have ot see if any other SS agents or witnesses can confirm it.

People are innocent until proven guilty. I am trying to express what would have happened to led to this type of action.

Yes, and this guy is innocent of 'assaulting the VP' or even harrasing him of it until proven otherwise. He merely stated that he disagreed with the president. It can't even be claimed that he was stalking him, because this was in a public mall.

I am not blind, I am cautious.

Indeed, if things happened as this guy described, in the civil suit documents no less, then it'd be truly bizzare and wrong, one almost has to assume that something funny is up. By it might not be that he is lying, it might be that there's a goober or two on the SS staff.

The charges were dropped, so what is the big deal?

An american citizen was arrested, processed, and had to gain his freedom by posting bail, merely for telling the VP that he disagrees with him. Thats the big deal.


This issue of charges, bookings, statements made when arrested, they're entirely irrelevant. A guy told the VP that he strongly disagrees with him, and he was cuffed and taken away. Thats whats at issue here.


[

"The charges were dropped, so what is the big deal?"


I got to say, this is the scariest thing I have ever read on ATS. Not the article, but esads response. I'm not flaming you dude, its just that your thinking and logic are so far away from mine that I cannot even begin to reconcile my thinkinking with yours.....

A man lost liberty because he objected to a war - and said so. Is that not his right to do so??

To paraphrase a very famouse poem.

" First they came for the Gypsies, and as it wasn't me, I didn't speak out..
Then they came for the infirm of mind, and it wasn't me, so again I never spoke out.
Then they came for the Jews, and as it wasn't me, I didn't speak out.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me...."

This is the slope - its slippery, and theres only one way to go on that slope, and thats down.... Cheney is a disgrace, and so are his little Stasi henchmen.

Originally posted by dgtempe
I think its worth noting that some esteemed members of the "right" will not come near this subject.

Now now DG, don't make this a right - left things.. your first comment was funny.. why go and be mean like that? Honestly?

The right does not control this.. the latest polls show a vast majority feel nothing in the Republican party represents them.. moderate conservatives have no one to represent them.. they have no voice.. they are exactly like the moderat left who also have no representation.

The average republican is ashamed of their party, me included. We don't vote Democrat because of arrogant in your face attitudes like yours and the radical biased policies liberals are spewing.

You have a choice, far right taken over by the christian right, or far left, taken over by the radical liberals.

The officer who arrested this man should be fired, should be prosectuted for wrongful arrest, knowingly holding a man against his will because the man did nothing wrong. The man is also entitled in my opinion a very large cash settlement from the US government. $1 million I honestly think would do well.. it can send a message to Bush that his SS - like that term? - cannot make the laws them selves.

Is this story true? It's from a very left wing site. Anything on any other sites?

IF THIS IS TRUE .. then the officer should be disciplined and/or fired. IF THIS IS TRUE .. then the fella that got arrested should have his record cleaned. It is a serious overstepping of authority. Sounds like the officer was on a power trip.

Originally posted by HoorahUSMC
Yes, and isn't it funny how many NAZIs were saved by America in Project Paperclip? Also, Prescott Bush, the father and grandfather of American Presidents, paid Hitler over 3 million dollars after America went to war with Germany.

Even worse, his son, George H.W. Bush, was in the air force fighting Germany when he gave 3 million to Hitler. Like what?

George Sr. was in the Navy in the Pacific. Not the Army Air Force in Germany. What I find suspect however is the combat film footage of him being rescued by a Navy submarine after he was shot down by the Japanese. Seemed like it was staged to me.

Cheney is another boozer,draft dodging chicken hawk who deserves a long time behind bars for his criminal activity even before 911 happened. John Stewart has him pegged correctly as The Penguin. A criminal mastermind who lets other do his dirty work for him.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
"The charges were dropped, so what is the big deal?"


I got to say, this is the scariest thing I have ever read on ATS. Not the article, but esads response. I'm not flaming you dude, its just that your thinking and logic are so far away from mine that I cannot even begin to reconcile my thinkinking with yours.....

A man lost liberty because he objected to a war - and said so. Is that not his right to do so??

To paraphrase a very famouse poem.

" First they came for the Gypsies, and as it wasn't me, I didn't speak out..
Then they came for the infirm of mind, and it wasn't me, so again I never spoke out.
Then they came for the Jews, and as it wasn't me, I didn't speak out.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me...."

This is the slope - its slippery, and theres only one way to go on that slope, and thats down.... Cheney is a disgrace, and so are his little Stasi henchmen.

Is it wrong to believe in my government?
Is it wrong to believe in my president?
Is it wrong if I support the war in Iraq?
Is it wrong if I vote republican?
Is it wrong if I think this guy is lying out of his arse?
Is it wrong for me to think for myself?
Is it wrong for me to come to my own conclusions?

I think left wing media is ridiculous, and ranks right up there with FoxNews and CNN, it is edited material for those who watch or read it.

These men have a job to do, and it is to protect the VP of the United States. Everyone and anyone is a potential threat. Most of you are listening and reading a liberal view of something that happened. Use a little common sense, and please think it through. This man said something more than he was admitting, he then walked back to the same area, and then he was asked by Secret Service where he was going I am sure. This is their job. If he at all acted in any way that was unappropirate, arrest him. If there is nothing wrong, you release him. They are protecting the VP, and personally I see that they did nothing wrong.

Now, when people start dissapperaing and it is all over FoxNews, let me know. Paranoia will destroy you, to quote a rock song....

Ehhmm esdad71. If that is really your birthyear.. i can only say:
"It's already too late for you."

No offense but, you sir.. are a sad excuse: Please don't take it personally. But if you post such offensive material on a forum like ATS you have to expect reactions.

If you look at sheer logical, reasonable and realistic probability.

What is more probable? That a honest, working citizen is going to make up some sort of plot and bring in his child.. etc.? Just to accuse someone of arresting him deliberately?

Or: That a person in an elevated position would abuse his powers?

Personally i've been BS by so many policemen in my short life.. and only a few of those are acting reasonable or even lawful at all.

So give me a break.. with "They are just doing their job."
It's the citizen's right to even test the reaction of a government institution to a MAXIMUM just to verify if the borders of law are given in reality.. as they are written down on the paper.

In my opinion it's unbelievable how someone can have an opinion like you do. Maybe you have a similar position in the police/security or whatever..

If those institutions did their job right. I wouldn't care. But they don't. Period.

To the government and superior institution every single one of us is potentially "guilty". But they, on the other hand. Are super-human. And unquestionable...

Judging from what you say.. I suppose if you were sentenced to death in a gas chamber. You would come up with: "But Hey! They are just doing their job. Everything is cool. Don't worry, i'll be OK."

And for your explanation: "I am just doing my job. I am only a tiny piece of some bigger machinery." Is how people can cope with their conscience. Even if they are part of something evil.. or something utterly wrong. They still do their best in their tiny position.. even if it is a completely ineffective or bad structure.

So, since 2nd World War "They are just doing their job." Doesn't count as an excuse anymore.

Think about it.

Okay, now Cheney's little skit on Colbert and Jon Stewert look like PR to me. What a ............... He makes me that angry to treat people like that. You have to have legitment care for people like that? Anyway, you can guess the cuss word in your own time. But I mean come on, that's just inapporiate the way Mr. Cheney and his bodyguard reacted. I don't know what they're thinking, unless they find further proof he's a threat the SS guard should be fired, and be replaced by a more compent and respectful guard.

You have no right to judge me, or attempt to psychoanalyze me for that matter. Why is it that the one who is charged is always the 'innocent'? You do not live in the US judging by your avatar, so you have no idea how it works in this country.

Dirst, I do not believe for a second he did not know Cheney was there. Secondly, I would love to see some type of surviellence footage of the incident. These comparisons to Nazi germany you folks continue to post are silly. If this was Nazi germany, they would have shot him, and his child. That is what Nazi germany did. This man did not disappear. I know history, and you stating that they are Nazis, means that as a US citizen, I am. I am far from that, as well as the rest of my country.

Also, I am not defending the SS. I am stating that this is a left wing story biased to the 'victim' in this incident. If the SS agent was out of line, than yes, he should be reprimanded or even suspended. I am not stating that law enforcement is perfect. I had my nose broken by police when i was handcuffed and on the ground. They laughed at me. I was a witness to a crime, not even a suspect and they beat the hell out of me. I understand what it is like to be in a situation such as that. A real situation. Where authority is in control and THEY make the rules, and the charges. Take a step back before you try to figure someone out.

They were doing their job, which is to protect the VP. Nothing more, nothing less. Please read a new article from a newspaper when it actaully happened, not when it was picked up because of the lawsuit. You get a different story...hmmm

www.vaildaily.com...

The U.S. Secret Service is offering no details about the arrest of Steven Howards, who they allege acted strangely around Vice President Dick Cheney on Friday during an economic summit in Beaver Creek.

"His behavior and demeanor wasn't quite right," Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said on Friday. "The agents tried to question him, and he was argumentative and combative."

On Monday, another spokesman for the Secret Service refused to say what "wasn't quite right" about Howards' demeanor and whether federal charges were brought against Howards.

Amazing huh.

[edit on 14-10-2006 by esdad71]

I have to agree with D4rk Knight: esdad71’s point of view is disturbing. It’s disturbing in substance, in how oblivious he is to the gravity of what he says, and in the increasing numbers of Americans who share the same mindless point of view.

In response to some of esdad71’s comments:

Let's not forget that Howards said: "I approached him, I got about two feet away, and I said in a very calm tone of voice, ‘Your policies in Iraq are reprehensible.’ And then I walked away.”

Esdad says: “Profanity can be construed as assault”
-- No. Profanity may be offensive, but it is not an assault, and it is not arrestable offense unless coupled with words threatening harm and an apparent intent and ability to carry out the threat. Believe it or not, and much to your dismay, free speech has not yet been made a crime in Amerika.


Esdad says: “If you tell a police officer to F### off, he will arrest you for assault.”

-- If he arrests you for assault merely for telling him to f### off, then he is committing the crime of false arrest and is wrongfully depriving a citizen of their liberty under color of law and should be disciplined, perhaps prosecuted, and at minimum given an education in basic U.S. Constitutional principles.

Esdad says: “he should be smarter than to run his mouth in front of his children.”
-- He wasn’t arrested for “running his mouth in front of his children”.

Esdad says: “Hold my hand, then kiss my ass. Go Cheney...go bush...Cindy Sheehan is the devil”
-- Thats right. Moms whose children are sent to fight and are killed in Iraq and who then have the gall to challenge the governmental policies that led to their child's death are the devil.

“Is it wrong to believe in my government?”
-- Yes, if you do so blindly.
“Is it wrong to believe in my president?”
-- Yes, if you do so blindly.”
“Is it wrong if I support the war in Iraq?”
-- Yes, if you do so blindly.
“Is it wrong if I vote republican?”
-- Does this one need a response?
“Is it wrong if I think this guy is lying out of his arse?”
-- Yes, because there’s nothing in the published article to lead a rational person to think that.
Who says Esdad can’t jump (to conclusions)!
“Is it wrong for me to think for myself?”
-- No. That would be a good thing. I’m waiting to see some evidence of it.
“Is it wrong for me to come to my own conclusions?”
-- No. See preceding comment.

Esdad says: “This man said something more than he was admitting”
-- Really? Where did you read that? You’re hallucinating again.

Esdad says: “he then walked back to the same area, and then he was asked by Secret Service where he was going I am sure. This is their job. If he at all acted in any way that was unappropirate, arrest him.”
-- No. Howards is a citizen who did nothing wrong. The SS agent had no business even asking Howards where he is going. Acting in a way that’s “unappropriate” is not an arrestable offense.

I live in the US. Maybe he appaered as a threat to him, but for whatever reason he never impled that to the American public. Your one to talk about judgement, when your judging me. I'm a history and book collector and reader in my spare time. So I picked an apporiate avatar to show my interest. Not to imply I live or work outside the country.

I apologize, I was responding to OSram, that was where my judgement came from that they do not even live in a country they knock it. I truly am sorry usaforever if you thought that. I have read your posts bfore and they are insightful. After you read the article I posted, did it change your point of view of the entire incident?


dubiousone, thank you for the kind words. Are you planning a trip to the Sheehan ranch this year? If so, please tell her that I am sorry that her son was killed, but it was his choice. Ever look into what her family thinks about it?

My way of 'thinking' to you may seem incomprehensible, but in the real world outside of the INternet, there are real rules. Go up to the next police officer you see, and tell him to F*** off and see what happens. I am sure you "you cannot do this to me 1st amendmant speech will get you real far.

When you grow a little older and wiser, you see a big picture that was not there before. All politicains are corrupt, from your local councilman to the POTUS. All of them. Law Enforcement is a joke. Lawyers are not working in your best interest, and so on. This is reality. They were doing what they are trained to do, and that is protect the VP. If someone is acting strange, they investigate it. Every little threat, just in case. You see that as invasion of privacy, I see it as something I would want done if I was in his position of power with so many people who hate him.