Muslim Women suspended from school over veil

The bbc reported today..

Bilingual support worker Aishah Azmi, 24, was asked to remove the veil after pupils found it hard to understand her during English language lessons.

Ms Azmi refused and was suspended pending the outcome of an employment tribunal, Kirklees Council said.

''There is no religious obligation whatsoever for Muslim women to cover themselves up in front of primary school children'' says Shahid Malik, Labour MP for Dewsbury

I found this to be interesting wether or not Ms Azmi or others should be allowed to wear a veil in a class room, i also wonder does it affect children in islamic country's. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter ????

For full storey click the link Link

Does anyone have an opinion on the matter ?? i really don't know what to think.

Don't tell me i've killed a thread before it's started

I think some Muslims get a kick out of being a pain the butt.

In fact, a lot of people seem to believe these days that being a pain in the butt is the highest calling.

"Agitate, agitiate, agitate."
--Frederick Douglass, 1895

www.cafepress.com


[edit on 2006/10/13 by GradyPhilpott]

The school, which has 529 pupils aged seven to 11, takes many children from different ethnic backgrounds where English is not the first language.
...
"Both pupils and teachers raised concerns because they were finding it difficult to make out what she was saying during lessons.

"We have a lot of pupils who do not speak English as a first language and you have to be able to see people's lips move when you are being taught.

For the reasons above, I support the school on this. Much the same as if she were teaching sign language and insisted on wearing mittens. Plus, her religion doesn't require that she wear the veil in front of children. I really can't see any reason for her to insist on this.



[edit on 13-10-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

I think whoever called for her suspension was a prejudice against Muslims. I would bet that they could hear her just fine.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Plus, her religion doesn't require that she wear the veil in front of children. I really can't see any reason for her to insist on this.



[edit on 13-10-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

I agree with everything you said about this. But I thought I would clarify that Islam doesn't require the covering of the face whatsoever. The Burkha/Veil is a throw back to local customs and has no place in Islam.

Both Men and women are required to "remain covered", but only in the respect of keeping decency. There is no requirement to wear a tent.

Its a custom! Whats wrong with covering your face?
Its a custom jsut like it is a custom to cover your legs with pants or to not and wear shorts. Do you wear long sleeves or short sleeves?
I am not Muslim but I can respect their custom. I would immagine it would be more of a suprise to see the womens face if she wore a veil all the time.
For her to be suspended from her job for this is really an ultimate prejudice.

I've got no problem with this. She was asked to comply, given reasons why, refused, got canned. No problem. As a person that has hearing problems I find it necessary to partially read lips to fill in what my ears miss. This was made clear to her, for different reasons though.

Originally posted by Techsnow
Whats wrong with covering your face?

Nothing. But if the kids can't tell what you're saying, can't see your lips and they're supposed to be learning language from her, I can see a problem.

I am not Muslim but I can respect their custom.

So can I. I think we all can. But if it gets in the way of doing her job...

For her to be suspended from her job for this is really an ultimate prejudice.

Not necessarily. Like I said, what if she were teaching sign language and had a custom of wearing mittens?

Originally posted by Techsnow
Its a custom! Whats wrong with covering your face?
Its a custom jsut like it is a custom to cover your legs with pants or to not and wear shorts. Do you wear long sleeves or short sleeves?
I am not Muslim but I can respect their custom. I would immagine it would be more of a suprise to see the womens face if she wore a veil all the time.
For her to be suspended from her job for this is really an ultimate prejudice.

Give over. Exactly, it is a custom, for some muslims to wear a tent. It is not a religious requirement at all.

I suppose it's ok for motorcyclists to wear helmets in petrol stations or banks? I mean, it is customary to wear a helmet, so much so, it's Law. So being asked to remove it in a bank is persecuting motorcyclists?

And before you say this analogy isn't relevant, I disagree. It is not required that the woman cover her face in front of children no more if a motorcylcist weres a helmet in a bank.

You get asked to do that and you comply. To not comply means refusal.

End of.

The bottom line is that the veil prevented her from performing the task for which she was paid. Anyone of us who refuses to make the accommodations necessary to make us proficient in our jobs faces the same consequences.

Your analogy is irrelavent because a motorcycilist does not wear his helmit because of religion, while, a Muslim women wears a viel because of her religion. It is a much more significant and deeper custom, and to violate such a custom, especially in the U.S. would be a violation of freedom of religion.

Techsnow, do you also think she should be allowed to wear her veil for a drivers license picture? Just curious.

Originally posted by Techsnow
Your analogy is irrelavent because a motorcycilist does not wear his helmit because of religion, while, a Muslim women wears a viel because of her religion. It is a much more significant and deeper custom, and to violate such a custom, especially in the U.S. would be a violation of freedom of religion.

Would you be OK with your kid's failing grade and not getting his/her education because of this woman's refusal to teach her pupils properly?

Can a viel really do alot of muffling? Just ask her to speak loud and clear geez! Suspended? You suspend a teacher for cussing at a student, or something semi-important. What kind of teacher is suspended from her job because she wouldnt take her viel off for religious purposes? Tell the children to get the ear wax out of their ears and listen.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Techsnow, do you also think she should be allowed to wear her veil for a drivers license picture? Just curious.

No I can't say wearing a veil for a drivers license picture would help to capture a photo picture of the person so of course she would have to take it off.

And I believe that the person who claimed that they were having trouble hearing her because of her veil is lying because the veil has holes in it at the mouth so you can hear the person clearly when they are speaking.

Again, I believe the excuse that they had trouble hearing her is just an excuse to take prejudice against her and her custom for being Muslim.

Originally posted by SAGEX89
Can a viel really do alot of muffling? Just ask her to speak loud and clear geez! Suspended? You suspend a teacher for cussing at a student, or something semi-important. What kind of teacher is suspended from her job because she wouldnt take her viel off for religious purposes? Tell the children to get the ear wax out of their ears and listen.

I'm assuming you didn't read the source material, it was an impediment to the kids learning due to English being a second language and NEEDED to be able to read lips as well. Maybe after they clean the wax out of their ears they can get some xray glasses so they can get their education.

Originally posted by Techsnow
Your analogy is irrelavent because a motorcycilist does not wear his helmit because of religion, while, a Muslim women wears a viel because of her religion. It is a much more significant and deeper custom, and to violate such a custom, especially in the U.S. would be a violation of freedom of religion.

As I said above, the veil or burkha is NOT a requirement of Islam. It is a local custom thats been dragged along with Islam. There is NO requirement for it, whatsoever, unless you go for an extreme, litteral translation of the Koran like OBL or the Taliban. If that is the case, then men also have to cover as equally if they insist there women do so.

[edit on 13/10/06 by stumason]

I'm assuming you didn't read the source material, it was an impediment to the kids learning due to English being a second language and NEEDED to be able to read lips as well. Maybe after they clean the wax out of their ears they can get some xray glasses so they can get their education.

haha, zing!


If you are being paid to do a job that requires people see your lips when you are teaching, then that's what needs to be done. I doubt that anyone give a flying rats left butt cheek whether this lady is muslim or not. If something you are doing prevents you from doing your job correctly, you are probably going to get canned. My religion says I must keep marbles in my mouth at all times, I refuse to take them out. Why the heck did you fire me from my job as an english teacher. It's not my fault they didn't understand what I was saying! Freedom of religion man!!!!!

Christian or Muslim (or whatever), she is an employee.

It seems to me no different than any other employer asking an employee to modify his or her outfit to be able to perform there work duty appropriately and/or safely.

Nox