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Sumerian Edin or Eden?

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posted on Nov, 1 2006 @ 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by undo
While discussing the dating of the Great Pyramid, Marduk and I got sidetracked on a debate relating to the origination of the word "Eden."

it was english. and, no it was not "edin" or "eden". most people pronounce it:

Cutting and pasting your original (and wrong) post from one message thread to another doesn't make it any more convincing. No one spoke English until the Middle ages.

To return to the topic, the first form of the word appears to be "Eden".

A pretty good article that I think most of you will like (with mention of hunter-gatherers and how the area developed) is here:

posted on Nov, 7 2006 @ 06:41 PM
Here's another one of those JSTOR papers. I had to use Make a Shorter Link because the link was horribly long. So when you click it, it will take you to another page for a moment as it loads the actual link.

The Etymology of Eden
A. R. Millard
Vetus Testamentum, Vol. 34, Fasc. 1 (Jan., 1984), pp. 103-106

posted on Nov, 7 2006 @ 09:04 PM
Kabbalistically, the 'Inferior' Eden is Yesod; and the Superior Eden is Daath.

And it is taught that the Ray of Creation descends from the Ain Soph Aur to Yesod, but that Malkuth(the physical plane) is a fallen Sephiroth.

So the fall of Adam and Eve is symbolic of their fall from the Etheric/Vital Plane into physical matter.

*Note the difference between a fall and a descent*


posted on Nov, 7 2006 @ 10:30 PM
I think you're onto something important, although I don't agree with the entire premise. But I do see wisdom in it. For example, my studies have lead me to believe that we were indeed stuffed in these physical bodies, and it was a downgrade. lol I don't have all the pieces put together yet, but I'm working on it.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by undo]

posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 01:34 PM

that we were indeed stuffed in these physical bodies


posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 10:36 AM
Dear Undo, many thanks for your posting of your research on the origins of the word eden. I learned something _new_ I had not been aware of before. I followed the urls you posted on the word's origins and was "surprised" to learn that at ancient Ebla in Syria it is rendered _eden_, but at Nippur its _edin_ or _edin-na_. This got me to thinking. Ebla as a kingdom is dated ca. 2700-2300 BC and its earliest archives are Early Dynastic III ca. 2500 BC later texts are ca. 23rd century BC. Experts identified a scribal school at Ebla that was making lists of Sumerian and Akkadian (Semitic) words. They also identified Eblaic writing, a Semitic language using cuneiform. The earliest known literature is from Tell Fara south of Babylon and is dated to the Early Dynastic III period ca. 2500 BC. Prior to that such literature on tablets doesn't exist as of yet (only inventory lists). Saggs: "Many of the Ebla tablets are inscribed in Sumerian, and some in Akkadian, and they correspond to contemporary forms in Mesopotamia. But in some tablets a third language is represented. This is of the Semitic group, and most scholars take it as being a distinct West Semitic language, which they refer to as Eblaite or Eblaic. This language illustrates how Mesopotamian cuneiform could be adapted to the needs of languages elsewhere. The signs employed are basically those used for writing Sumerian, but some are given rare or hitherto unknown values." (p. 79. H.W.F. Saggs. Peoples of the Past: Babylonians. 2000. British Museum Press. London)

As regards eden: Only _one_ occurence occurs of this spelling form and it is at Ebla in Syria. Edin or edin-na occurs at Nippur in several texts. Both, as you correctly noted are rendered "steppe, plain or desert" _not_ mountain. I have been researching Eden for some 20 years and have a few proposals. Genesis' eden is recalling Ebla's eden as well as Nippur's edin-na. Ebla's Eden is simply a variant of edin (edin-na). The problem? Scholars render Genesis' eden in Hebrew as `eden the phoeme /`/ doesn't appear to be preserved in Ebla's eden nor Nippur's edin (edin-na) hence this word's being borrowed by Hebrews is denied by some scholars. They argue `eden means "delight" or a place "well-watered" citing Aramaic `adn. Perhaps via a "punning" or "word-play" eden/edin was made into `eden (delight)? In my articles on Eden I argue that the Hebrews are recasting Mesopotamian "origin-of-man" myths in order to refute them. The Mesopotamians portray man as THE VICTIM of uncaring, exploitive gods, whereas Genesis portrays a loving God AS THE VICTIM of a rebellious, ungrateful mankind. That is to say the Hebrews are presenting a counter-argument in their recasting of the earlier myths. The gods made man to be their SLAVE, to toil in their gardens and provide them food (said gardens being made _before_ man's creation for the gods' sustenance- they live on the earth in cities they have built). Man will replace the gods as an earthly laborer. The gods toiled on the earth to provide life's necessities for themselves: food, shelter and clothing; man will now do all this, giving the gods and eternal rest from earthly toil. Man's purpose in life is to work for all eternity, generation after generation, in the gods' gardens, growing food to feed the gods. The myths have no knowledge of the gods ever expelling man from their gardens. If man is expelled who will care for the gardens? Sow the seed, water it, hoe the weeds, harvest the plants, prepare them for the table? The gods will have to do this themselves, an onerous task they abhorred, hence the reason they made man to care for their garden and prepare food for them. The gods' gardens were never called eden or edin (edin-na), this term means _uncultivated_ land. The gods lived in cities and these cities had gardens for for food to sustain the gods _before_ man's creation. The cities and their gardens were surrounded by uncultivated land, the edin. The gods' gardens lie _in_ the edin.

posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 11:10 AM
Marduk apparently understands that the Biblical eden is to be associated with a mountain. If I am in error, my apology. The Bible does suggest an association of the garden of eden with a mountain (Ezekiel 28:13-14). Why? I understand it is related somewhat to the `eden/eden/edin controversy between Marduk and Undo. Archaeologists have determined that the earliest cities are in Lower Mesopotamia. Their origins were in villages possessing rudimentary irrigation canals from the Euphrates and Tigris rivers ca. the 6th-5th millleniums BC. But further investigations revealed irrigation began not on the great plain of Mesopotamia but in the foothills of the Taurus and Zagros mountains that abut the plain or steppe and these primitive villages date from the 11th-8th millenniums BC. It is understood that over time these peoples migrated from the mountains and settled the plains to later found the cities of Lower Mesopotamia. So the very first gardens of the gods were not on edin the plain/steppe but in the mountains abuting the plain. The cities of the plain had ziggurats which are artifical mountains for their gods to dwell on. Within and without the city walls were the gods' gardens to provide food for the gods. The gods were "given the credit" for building the cities and irriageted gardens _before_ man's creation. Man is created "later" to replace the gods as laborers upon the earth. So "mountains" called ziggurats lie in the midst of the steppe/plain called edin/eden and irrigated city-gardens too. Thus Ezekiel's notion that God's garden lies atop a mountain is probably recalling the Mesopotamian concept that a god's garden _is_ associated with a mountain. In the beginning this was true, the earliest villages and the irrigated gods' garden are in the mountains, not edin the plain/steppe. One of the Mesopotamian words for mountain is KUR. The ziggurat at Nippur was called the e-kur "mountain house" of the god Enlil. When Enki created the world's first city (according to Mesopotamian myths) at Eridu it was likened to being a KUR, "a mountain" rising up over the plain and marshlands (perhaps an allusion to his ziggurat, ziggurat meaning "to be high"). So, Marduk _is correct_ there is "an asociation" of a mountain with eden, but _not_ etymologically from Syrian Ebla's eden or Mesopotamian Nippur's edin (edin-na).

posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 11:43 AM

Marduk apparently understands that the Biblical eden is to be associated with a mountain

heres the irrefutable evidence of the location of Eden (at least from a biblical standpoint)
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became four heads. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 and the gold of that land is good; there is bdellium and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second river is Gihon; the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Cush. 14 And the name of the third river is Tigris; that is it which goeth toward the east of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

the Tigris and the Euphrates have their source in the southern caucasus
not the Zagros
in fact last I heard the Zagros idea as being the sumerian homeland was discarded along with the idea that they arrived from a boat in India
you know you can do a lot with genetics
especially when you have Sumerian skeletons that prove without doubt that they were in fact originally Eurasian and not Middle Eastern
that information has been available for about 60 years but you know people with agendas and all that
you'd think that their D.N.A. would at least show some evidence of alien genes really wouldn't you but alas
sitchin is wrong

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 06:23 AM

My personal studies on the topic, lead me to believe there were 2 Edens/Edins. The Fields (which could also be the steppes, the plains), and the Garden, which was encompassing a "ziggurat" (a holy mountain) of that time frame. this is where the story really gets interesting.

According to the Enuma Elish, Gilgamesh searches out the gates of the Paradise/Garden, so he can learn from the equivalent of the biblical Noah, the secret of immortality. When he arrives at the Garden gates, there are two sentries posted who will not let him pass. they are described as scorpion beings. They appear to have some type of radiation emitting from their eyes (think of the oracles in the never ending story), and the entire gate and guardians of the gate, are surrounded by some type of shimmering shield that encompasses the entire area, and spreads across the mountain (which i'm assuming is in fact a ziggurat). Compare this to the biblical story of the Garden of Eden and how the gates were blocked by two cherubim and a fiery sword that went back and forth (the shimmering shield, almost sounds like a force field).

Gilgamesh explains who he is and the guardians of the gate determine he is capable of using the gate (he's referred to as being 2/3rds god, 1/3 human, he's a hybrid nephilim king and well, that's borne out by the passages that claim that kingship descended from the heavens to the earth). He then passes into the gates and has a trip in the dark, which ends at a Garden in which the plants don't grow fruit, but crystals. There he finds the "Noah" figure, who has been placed in paradise (the Garden of Eden) and given an immortal body as a result of his good works and so on.

This lead me to believe that the gate was in fact a star gate/wormhole (thus the passage in the dark and the need to be biologically capable of passage threw the gate), and that paradise was originally located on another planet. In support of the theory, I found a map from ancient Babylon of constellations that indicated a connection, not only to the events in the Enuma Elish but to the stories surrounding the sumerian Enki, who's ziggurat was said to connect to the Field Constellation. The star map places the Field constellation in the Great Square of Pegasus. Pisces is depicted as the two rivers of Euphrates and Tigris, which surround, on two sides, the Great Square of Pegasus. And Pegasus, is depicted as a cherubim/sphinx. It all fits into each other, hand in glove, like an intricate puzzle. It dawned on me at this point, that the Garden of Eden was probably at the other end of a star gate passage somewhere in the Field Constellation (the Great Square of Pegasus).

This is further substantiated in the biblical texts when it refers to the "serpent" as the most subtle beast of the field. Which in fact, may have been a reference to the Field (constellation) and Enki's "ziggurat" which was connected to the Field Constellation in the sumerian-akkadian story.

To add another layer of interest to it, the possibility exists that our "fall" as a race, may have been that we were cast out of paradise via the star gate, to this planet, because we had been genetically modified by the "Serpent", (Enki, who was called the great dragon in their texts)

Of course, I could be wrong.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by undo]

[edit on 20-11-2006 by undo]

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 09:17 AM
Regarding Eden's rivers I have two articles on the subject with maps at the following urls if interested:
The Bible suggests a river subdivides into four streams. This is an unusual feature. Most rivers are formed by tributaries. However, when a river forms a delta it can subdivide into streams as for example the Nile subdividing into 7 streams in antiquity in its delta. The Tigris and Euphrates geologically speaking were formed after the ice age came to an end. Archaeologists and Hydrologists have noted that for much of the Euphrates' existence it has subdivided into three streams in Lower Mesopotamia as it crosses the great floodplain called eden/edin. In the 4th-3rd millennias BC the Tigris actually "merged" with the Euphrates near ancient Sippar, thus the Euphrates became briefly the head of 4 streams crosssing Lower Mesopotamia. Eventually the Tigris migrated from this "union" to the east and the Euphrates migrated to the west. Geologically speaking however, the Tigris and Euphrates have _never_ both arisen from one stream, as portrayed in Genesis. For me, the garden in Eden is a Hebrew recasting/refutation of Mesopotamian creation myths. Yes, the gods did make man and place him in their gardens. He was to replace the Igigi gods' toil for food to feed themselves while they lived in cities built for themselves _before_ man's creation. The Mesopotamian gods will _never expell man_ from ther city-gardens for they do not want to have to toil in them for their food. From the Mesopotamian viewpoint there are _many_ gods' city-gardens in edin the steppe/plain. The Hebrews refute this, God's garden is _not_ associated with a city. Cain makes the world's first city _after_ man's expulsion from the garden. God did not make man to replace himself as a toiler in his garden. God did _not_ make the garden to feed himself but to provide sustenance for man _contra_ the Mesopotamian myths. The Euphrates and Tigris rivers provide the water for the gods' city gardens in edin the steppe/plain (hence their association with the garden of Eden, but the Hebrews _deny_ these rivers provide water for God's garden, they are formed _after_ the river of Eden "leaves" the garden, subdividing into four streams, "refuting" the Mesopotamian realities). For the Mesopotamians there are _many_ gods' gardens vs. the Hebrews' notion there is only one. Where then is the "original" garden of eden? Its the cities of Lower Mesopotamia and their city-gardens. Where in Mesopotamian myths is man created to "specifically" work in a god's city garden? (1) At Eridu in the Sumerian god Enki's (Akkadian Ea's) garden; (2) At Nippur, the garden belonging to the Sumerian god Enlil (Akkadian Ellil); (3) At Babylon to work in Marduk's garden (biblical Merodach). All three of these locations "lie" in or are "surrounded by" a great uncultivated floodplain called eden/edin, between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Which is the "earliest" city or "prototype" for the gods' gardens? Eridu. For the Mesopotamians Eridu's city-garden is the equivalent of the Hebrews' garden of Eden. Genesis _refutes_ the notion that a god called Enki made the world's _first_ "city" instead it is made by Adam's son Cain and called Enoch (_after_ the expulsion from the garden). Point-by-point the Hebrews in Genesis _refute, deny and challenge_ Mesopotamian concepts and beliefs regarding who, what, why, where, when, and how man came to created, placed in a god's garden, his purpose in life, where the garden is located and how it is watered by one stream that after leaving the garden subdivides into four rivers, and why man is expelled from it.

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 09:32 AM

actually, the ancient texts of sumer and akkadia, do not discount that Enki is the equivalent of the biblical satan and in fact, call him the great dragon, a nome-de-plume given to Satan in the bible and most provokingly, in the final book of the bible - Revelation, where he is called the Great Red Dragon. Interestingly enough, it wouldn't have been possible for the authors or the man having the vision, to have known that Satan was called the Great Dragon in ancient times because Sumer and Akkadian texts were buried under so many feet of sand at that point and their stories were all but gone . There's no references to my knowledge, that the Babylonians or Assyrians ever called Enki the "Great Dragon," so it wouldn't be a case of Enki being universally known as the Great Dragon.

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 10:18 AM
Undo, For my part, I am not "into" extra-terrestials (and stargate/worm-hole portals) from other planets as behind the Mesopotamian myths (as for example argued by Zechariah Stitchin, et al.). All can be explained as man's own creative speculations, in this case the musings of Sumerian priests. I have identified _seven_ edenic locations as fused into the garden in Eden: (1) Eridu, (2) Nippur, (3) Babylon, (4) a Lebanese cedar mountain, (5) a watering hole in the edin near Uruk, (6) the island of Dilmun (Tell el-Lahm to the east of Eridu); and (7) Anu's heavenly abode where Adapa refuses to consume the "bread and water of life" which would give him and man immortality. cf. the following url if interested:
I am in agreement with you about Enki (Ea) being a prototype of Eden's Serpent. Actually I understand that there are several prototypes who have been fused together as the Edenic Serpent: (1) Enki (Ea); (2) Anu (An); (3) Dumuzi (Tammuz); (4) Ningishzida (Gizzida);(5) Inanna (Ishtar); (6) The Gilgamesh serpent; (7) The Etana Myth's serpent; (8) The ugalla demons who possess serpent bodies.
For all the details if intersted cf. my article at the following url:
Again, I agree with you that the Christians would _not_ likely know that Enki (Ea) bore the Sumerian epithet ushumgal "great serpent dragon", yet, surprisingly, the Adapa and the Southwind myth regarded by some as a prototype for Adam's loss of immortality, has Ea/Enki bearing a serpent-dragon epithet. I find it "fascinating" how certain motifs and concepts are recycled from generation to generation, and reinterpreted and transformed each time (Inanna's 3 days and nights in hell and her resurrection paralleling Christ's resurrection).

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 12:49 PM
The details regarding edEn or edIn are not relavent- vowels came along long after the languages in question.

In the original Hebrew (without the vowel marks from the Masoretic which came later), 'edn' is:


ayin = eye/spiritual insight - to see/know/experience
dalet = door/way - pathway/to enter
nun = soul/faithfulness - downfall/rising again

We've all heard the 'eyes are the windows to the soul.' But when we want to 'enter' do we climb in the window, or is the accepted and appropriate way to enter anywhere by going in through the 'door?' Climbing through the window seems like the action of a thief, but to walk in through the door implies invitation and welcome.

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 05:24 PM
I do recall that ancient Hebrew tended to use consonants vowels came along much later. In regards to the word eden found at Ebla in Syria ca. 2500-2300 BC, which as Undo correctly noted means "steppe," I wonder if the Hebrews were having such a field day _denying and refuting_ via inversions and reversals of Mesopotamian notions that they took eden and deliberately transformed it by adding the phoneme /`/ rendering `eden meaning "delight"? For the Mesopotamians eden/edin was a place of horror not delight. Dumuzi was killed in the edin at his sheepfold by the ugalla demons. Murderers and cut-throats and oucasts from society wandered the edin looking for victims. Edin/eden was a semi-arid or desertlike area, rendered as an-edin "high steppe/plain" and ki-edin "low steppe/plain." Water in this uncultivated land was provided by an occasional rainstorm or the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. The Sumerian term edin over time was replaced by the Akkadian term siri (seri, seru, serim) whence the modern Arabic zor. I understand the naked wildman of the seri, Enkidu of the Epic of Gilgamesh, was transformed into Adam. Both are naked, have wild animals for companions then a naked woman is brought to them and they "leave" the animals for companionship with womankind. The naked temple harlot of Uruk had been told to let Enkidu mate with her, his animal friends (gazelles) will flee from him and reject him. When, after sex with Shamhat, Enkidu attempts to return to his animal friends they flee. She tells him "he possesses wisdom now like a god," why roam with animals come with her to meet Gilgamesh in Uruk. Enkidu does now possess wisdom, he realizes he cannot ever return to his lost innocence after sex, so he agrees. The harlot parts her garments and clothes his and her nakedness and they depart seri/edin together clothed. Later Enkidu learns he is to die for shedding the blood of Huawwah who was the guardian of the gods' cedar forest in Lebanon (his task is to deny access to the cedar trees by man). Feeling sorry for himself Enkidu curses the harlot for robbing him of his innocence and setting off the chain reaction of events leading to his coming death. He wants her to be _subordinate_ forever to the abuse of man. He asks his patron sun-god Utu (Shamash) to carryout the curse and is reprimanded by his god. He is told the harlot did him only good, she covered his nakedness with a fine robe, gave him food to eat fit for gods, and introduced him to a wonderful companion Gilgamesh. A chastened Enkidu withdraws his curse for the harlot and gives her a blessing. I understand The Hebrews have recast this as God cursing Eve for undoing the innocent naked man of eden, Adam. In the original story then _a god did not curse_ the naked woman, he _defended_ her against her ungrateful self-pitying naked companion, Enkidu. Enkidu also cursed the Hunter who brought Shamhat to entrap him with sex. He asks all profits be _diminished_ for the Hunter at whatever he turns his hand to. I understand this has beeen racast as Adam's profits being _diminished_ harvests because God curses the ground to bear thorns and briars instead of yeilding its bounty. Enkidu and Shamhat left seri/edin clothed and of their free will, not expelled from a god's garden in eden. The Hebrews have refuted this. Shamhat says to Enkidu: "Let's leave this _place of desolation_ berift even of shepherds and go to Uruk." Obviously the waterhole they met each other at is not an edenic paradise as portrayed by Genesis. But we are told Enkidu's heart DELIGHTS in the water at the watering hole and so too the animals' hearts also DELIGHT in the water. Apparently Enkidu's heart also DELIGHTED in having the naked Shamhat for sex at the watering hole in seri/edin too. Maybe these "delight" motifs from the Epic of Gilgamesh became reformatted into edin's transformation from eden/edin to teh Hebrew`eden meaning a place of "delight"?

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 05:32 PM

Originally posted by undo
actually, the ancient texts of sumer and akkadia, do not discount that Enki is the equivalent of the biblical satan

I think that won't wash, so to speak. The Sumerians/Akkadians did not have a "god of evil" that was a polar opposite to a "single god of good." Enki ruled the waters below and was a god of wisdom and one of the creators of humans. He's also the one who assigned tasks to the other gods.

Sooooo... not very like Satan at all unless you're rewriting Christian concepts.

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 06:29 PM
you think maybe that in sumerian you would say rival to god with
and the head god of the pantheon the sun god was called AN
adversary to god
if you want to know where the T went to just pronounce SA.AN and you'll soon find it

only of course in Sumerian its a phrase and not an individual

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 07:12 PM
I thought it was 'Anu?' Whose daughter was Inanna?

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 07:15 PM
Anu is the same god as An in the akkadian tongue
Anu in that case is actually short for Anum
Inanna is the daughter of Nanna the moon goddess in some pantheons but her being a member of the Anuna means that really she doesn't have a mother
she just is

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 07:26 PM
Perhaps the idea of 'edinu' or 'edin' meaning 'steppe' or 'plain' was referring to the 'plain of Shinar' which is the site of Akkadia (right?) or at least Babylon and the ziggurat builders...

In which case, makes it somewhat synonymous with the Hebrew idea of 'Eden' in location only - not necessarily etymology.

But, if you're going to be debating what ancient texts say concerning such things as Gods and global floods (whether or not any of it is FACTUAL is not the issue here), then it would also be logical to look at this way:

When the Hebrews wrote of Eden and called it a 'garden' or 'pleasant place' this was ante-deluvian. Even if the writing was post-deluvian it was describing the place according to how it was prior to the deluge. Is the other meaning of 'edin' or 'edinu' then referring to the place after the Gilgamesh epic? If so, then it would make perfect sense for these two words to be referring to the same geographical idea but with different descriptive characteristics? Right?

posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 09:14 PM

When the Hebrews wrote of Eden and called it a 'garden' or 'pleasant place' this was ante-deluvian. Even if the writing was post-deluvian it was describing the place according to how it was prior to the deluge. Is the other meaning of 'edin' or 'edinu' then referring to the place after the Gilgamesh epic? If so, then it would make perfect sense for these two words to be referring to the same geographical idea but with different descriptive characteristics? Right?

but you have to remember that the Sumerians didn't use the word Eden/Edin as a geographical location

this symbol that spells Eden means back, plain, steppe, open country or upper side

this symbol that spells Eden means a bird that is found in Eden

this symbol that spells Eden-lil means haunted desert

this symbol that spells Eden-x means a bird that is found in Eden

so to them the word eden was not on any occaison a noun
it was a descriptive term

but as you have imagined it
if someone was told of a place that was described by the word Eden and the description was of paradise then that person would soon come to use the word Eden to mean Paradise itself if they didn't understand Sumerian very well
but clearly that wasn't its original meaning
in Sumerian texts paradise is always located in close proximity to heaven
and heaven is always on a mountaintop
Undo doesn't accept this because in her world heaven is in outer space somewhere and gods come down from it in spaceships
this is purely a judao-christian viewpoint and funnily enough so are extra terrestrials
but in the ancient world the idea of a spiritual celestial heaven wasn't even thought of and in fact the Sumerians had no word for Celestial or Cosmos at all

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