"Could God Create a Stone SO BIG that God could not lift it?" I have the answer.

Originally posted by dbates
I think you're confused as to what Christianity actually is. You seem to think that God is Omnipotent (all-powerful)

Do you still think i am the one who is confused as to what Christianity actually is?

Yes, i do think that God is Omnipotent and ALL POWERFUL.

However, you do not.

So am i confused because of what i believe, or am i confused because of what you believe?

It would be helpful if you quoted everything I said insted of just pieces. If you would have quoted the entire sentence I typed you would see what I was talking about.

Originally posted by dbates
I think you're confused as to what Christianity actually is. You seem to think that God is Omnipotent (all-powerful) yet unable to make humans that are separate and different from himself.

Your persistence at twisting words and taking them out of context amazes even me. You see I'm asking you why you implied that God couldn't make humans that were separate from himself. I truly believe that he can and did. If you honestly misunderstood the statement, then go back and read it again. If not then I'll just have to assume that you are confused or just a word manipulator and quit reading this thread all-together. We can all quote people out of context and make them look like something they are not.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
So am i confused

Yes, I would have to agree that you are confused.



Madam I'm Adam [Mirror] Madam I'm Adam (Undeniable proof of some sort)


Back on topic....This is a pointless, meaningless question. It's a placebo.

Placebo
A placebo, from the Latin for "I will please", is an inactive substance (pill, liquid, etc.), which is administered as if it were a therapy, but which has no therapeutic value other than the placebo effect.

Originally posted by UnrealZA
God can do all things which are POSSIBLE....

So that means: everything, anything?

Because:

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. ~Matthew 19:26

And, by extension, those who believe God has NO limits:

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. ~Mark 9:23

God's own Will, however, surpasses even His ability to make the impossible, possible:

And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. ~Mark 14:36

It seems there is something far higher in God's mind than any limit or imposition that any of us might see fit to apply.

Furthermore, if God can lift a dead man, He can surely lift anything.

Originally posted by UnrealZA
When God took on flesh He did not empty Himself of "Godhood"

It would seem that Paul disagrees with your statement, UnrealZA:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: ~Philippians 2:7

'made himself of no reputation' = Strong's #'s 2758 & 1538:

G2758
From G2756; to make empty, that is, (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify: - make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.

G1438
(Including all the other cases); from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive (dative or accusative) of G846; him (her, it, them, also [in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons] my, thy, our, your) -self (-selves), etc.: - alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own (-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them (-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).

'emptied self.'

Indeed he did.

Originally posted by UnrealZA



God can do all things which are POSSIBLE....God is a non-contradictory Being hence He cannot contradict Himself. He cannot create a square circle, a round triangle nor could He cease to be.....in other words He cannot "die" for He is Eternal.


[edit on 14-10-2006 by UnrealZA]

But do not forget, he can also do the things that we see as imposible.

I think No, to be short, he could not create a rock that is too heavy/big for him to lift.

Because God can do all things, correct?

So he can create a rock so large that we can't comprehend its sheer size, a rock larger than the largest planet or star that we know to even exist in the universe. Then when he was done, if he wanted to, he'd lift this rock of ultimate size while floating in dark matter and spin it on his pinky finger.

The real question is, does God have a pinky finger?

Acctually their is no paradox and this is how it would probably happen

Archangel Michael - My Lord can you make a rock big enough that you can not lift it.

God - Of course I can.

:: God creates a rock so big he could not lift it::

Archangel Michael - Dosent that limit your power my Lord.

God - No not at all. Jesus help me move this thing.

Jesus - Yes dad.

:: Jesus and God move the rock::

Michael - I don't think they mean that.

Jesus - Technically their are three parts of God making the trinity. Since I am one of the parts and yet technically seperate he did make a rock he could not life and yet could lift.

:: meanwhile in Hell::

Lucifer - Thats cheating!

:; back in Heaven::

Michael - You let him watch.


See it all works out to no paradox just a confused angel and an angry devil.

Of course He does, Runetang!

What else would He use for steering around hair-pin curves on precipitous roadways?

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by UnrealZA
God can do all things which are POSSIBLE....

So that means: everything, anything?

Because:

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. ~Matthew 19:26

And, by extension, those who believe God has NO limits:

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. ~Mark 9:23

God's own Will, however, surpasses even His ability to make the impossible, possible:

And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. ~Mark 14:36

It seems there is something far higher in God's mind than any limit or imposition that any of us might see fit to apply.

Furthermore, if God can lift a dead man, He can surely lift anything.

queenannie,

My post was very clear. Read it within its context.

God can do all things which are "possible".....in other words it is impossible for us to create a universe, air, water, animals and people from nothing yet this is nothing for God for He is All Powerful. This though is not the limit to His power, perhaps only a slight glimpse of it.

So for God, being that He is a non-contradictory Being, He cannot cease to be. That would be impossible for Him. He cannot create a square triangle for this would be contradictory.

Now when you use a verse in Scripture it would be helpful if you at least attempted to use it in its context.

You gave me Matthew 19:26 to defend or argue against what???? That God can do anything possible or can't?

Matt 19:26
26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
NASU

Jesus stated this after telling His disciples that people with their hearts stuck on materialistic idols shall never enter the kingdom of God. The disciples ask, 'Who then can be saved?"

Jesus tells them that no one is saved based on works, on what one has or owns (this is what's "impossible") but rather only by the grace of God.

Nothing within Gods nature or attributes "surpasses" another attribute. It's not as if He has more Love than Wrath or Foreknowledge than Grace.

You also disagree, so it seems, with my statement about Jesus not emptying Himself of Godhood when He took on flesh. You gave me a passage from Paul, Phillipians 2:7...

Phil 2:7
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
NASU

This passage states that Jesus emptied Himself of Godhood?

First off you are then arguing at one point Jesus was God, correct?

Secondly, if Paul is correct here is he also correct when he writes that Jesus is in fact God, our Savior? Was Paul mistaken in that case but right in this case because it agrees with your presupossitions?

Third and last this passage supports that Jesus is in fact God when again......when AGAIN read in its surrounding context and not isolated.

Verse 4 sets up Pauls argument, that we are to give up our own personal interests for those of others.

Phil 2:4
4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
NASU

He then uses Jesus as an example, this passage gives us the contextual meaning of verse 7.

Phil 2:6
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
NASU

Paul states that before His incarnation Jesus exsisted, the Greek word here is "morphe", "in the form of God"....Jesus did not disrobe of His deity but rather the High Position or Glory as God. He "humbled" Himself, and gave up something for the interest of others, that being their salvation.

Read the words of Jesus,

John 17:4-5
4 "I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.

5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
NASU

So again, when you use a passage use it in its context.

Originally posted by Thegans
Jesus - Technically their are three parts of God making the trinity. Since I am one of the parts and yet technically seperate he did make a rock he could not life and yet could lift.

Not all christian denominations see the trinity as being true and not all christian denominations see jesus as the son of god. So technically it would appear that your statement is only your position and to some christians blasphemous.


G

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
"....Could God create a stone so heavy that He couldn't lift it....."

Absolutely. God does limit itself. If you're Jewish or Christian, you will know the OT says that God promises mankind that it will no longer wipe out most of the population anymore. Being omnipotent does mean being able to do anything, but it does not mean having to do everything at once or do anything against God's own will.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by UnrealZA
queenannie,

My post was very clear. Read it within its context.

I did, trust me. And yes, it was very clear. And, just between you and me, quite disappointing to me - because of what you expressed I was sorrowful for you.

I was hoping to elicit some sort of deep-soul rallying cry from within you - from your naked soul underneath all the carnal christianity and ego-oriented theology with which you clothe yourself in our company here at ATS.

You gave me Matthew 19:26 to defend or argue against what???? That God can do anything possible or can't?

‘God’ and ‘can’t’ do not co-exist in my mentality, UnrealZA.
But, to answer you specifically: because Christ said: With God ALL things ARE possible.

Jesus stated

rather only by the grace of God.

Boy, you sure complicated THAT! Just a simple and beautiful declaration of our LORD - and for what reason? Are not His words good enough? I find them simple yet profoundly eloquent, always to the point, and amazingly consistent!

Regardless of what they asked Him about - His answer obviously was stated as it was in order to make it clear that He was not limiting His statement to their realm of thought at that moment.

'With God ALL THINGS are possible.'

ALL THINGS. I don't know about you, but when I hear 'all things,' I pretty much take it to mean ALL THINGS.

Nothing within Gods nature or attributes "surpasses" another attribute.
It's not as if He has more Love than Wrath or Foreknowledge than Grace.

How could you possibly KNOW such things? That's human rhetoric - seminary slop or maybe bible college bull corn....needlessly complicated and circular - and always arrogantly assuming.

God is perfect and perfect perfection is ultimately efficient, concise, and simple. Short and sweet and long on truth.

You may prefer Deity to be all neat and three-fold bundled into some secure and tidy box of possibilities (or limits, depending on which side of the box you’re looking at)…..but MY God is TOO BIG to fit in anything – much less a box – and there is NOTHING that God cannot do – if He so chooses to make a square triangle or a perpendicular parallel line, then I know HE CAN. Far be it for me to suggest anything one way or the other. If Christ said that with GOD ALL THINGS are possible, then that’s good enough for me – I’d wager my very being on the veracity of that one statement, alone.

You also disagree, so it seems, with my statement about Jesus not emptying Himself of Godhood when He took on flesh. You gave me a passage from Paul, Phillipians 2:7...

Right – because it directly contradicts your statement of Christ NOT emptying himself – so I posted it.

First off you are then arguing at one point Jesus was God, correct?

In the OT, YES, He was of the Elohim…BEFORE being born as a human being (that is the point at which He emptied Himself and took on the form of a man – a mortal man.)

Secondly, if Paul is correct here is he also correct when he writes that Jesus is in fact God, our Savior? Was Paul mistaken in that case but right in this case because it agrees with your presupossitions?

How could Paul be mistaken? At least I know that would be a very rare thing to be proven – Paul’s source was impeachable!!!

BUT remember – when did Paul write? Long after Yehoshua, as Christ, died as a mortal man, was raised from the grave (MORTAL DEATH) by the Most High God (El Elyon) to be the first begotten of the dead and God’s first-born Son (of the Spirit) and exalted to the right side of the Throne of the Most High God (El Elyon)….

Translations such as the NASU and all its peers do not place their loyalty with pure Greek translation, but rather opt for the doctrinal approach (which is interpretation, NOT translation)…

Paul states that before His incarnation Jesus exsisted, the Greek word here is "morphe", "in the form of God"....Jesus did not disrobe of His deity but rather the High Position or Glory as God. He "humbled" Himself, and gave up something for the interest of others, that being their salvation.

NO DOUBT! What did He give up? His status in the Godly heirarchy – His immortality – His pure and spotless comfort zone in the bosom of the divine patriarchal HQ…

AND for WHAT?~?~?

To die a death that was, in all of history, the most demeaning, painful (there couldn’t be a word to describe that sort of pain, I don’t think – nails through your BONES??) prolonged and despised sort of execution us barbaric humans have had imagination to devise….
The reason? No reason, actually – beside being the only creature pure in heart on the planet – whose disciples never did really get what he was trying to tell them and surely didn’t stand beside/behind him during his ordeal (where were they? Cowering in a hiding spot for fear they’d meet the same fate…)

NONE of it did he have to do….NONE of it.

To say he was not a mortal man is to deny the glory such a hero deserves – a hero that will never be matched in humanity – EVER. For God to do that – BIG DEAL! But for our Creator to give up his sovereignity and pain-free life in a position most respected in ALL the UNIVERSE….and die as a man, naked and beaten and ridiculed – in front of his mother, even, and his best friend (two women stood by him until the end – can you imagine?)…

Now that is the stuff Gods are made of!

Read the words of Jesus

I read them every day, UnrealZA, or at least I used to – now I just repeat them in my heart more than I think my own thoughts….

These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
~John 15:11-13

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
~John 16:33

BUT these words MOST of ALL:

and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the age….

a better version of this question was posed on the simpsons

"could jesus microwave a burrito so hot, that not even he could eat it?"
-homer simpson to ned flanders

If we say that God cannot do something that is logically impossible, like making a four sided triangle, aren't we saying that logic is more powerful than God, since he would have to conform to its rules?

Originally posted by dv4444
If we say that God cannot do something that is logically impossible, like making a four sided triangle, aren't we saying that logic is more powerful than God, since he would have to conform to its rules?

and we did.

the triangle has four sides.

the pyramid 2 rise.