Small Plane crashes into NYC Building

Originally posted by stumason
Jebus, people. It's a plane crash. deal with it. No terrorist's, don't start panic buying just yet...

Honestly, they've got you all well conditioned haven't you? Do you know how many light aircraft come down every day? In the summer, here in the UK, there were several over a couple of months. Not once did anyone go "Arrrgh!!! Terrorists!!"

Just calm down and breath deeply..it'll be ok.....

I think half of us here were joking and the other half were speculating. The main thought in all of our heads was that it was an accident, we're not that 'conditioned' as you say.

Originally posted by Britguy
Most likely it's just a tragic accident, like all the other light aircraft mishaps that occur daily.

The weather is miserable here today as well. Its pouring rain. Probably some poor pilot must have got caught in this bad weather. Its right near LaGuardia airport and there are always planes and helicopters flying all over the place constantly 24hrs a day. I hope there was minimal loss of life.


From what I understand that guy from the Yankees was with his Pilot instructor , they flew around the Statue of Liberty and then shortly after fell off of the radar and there was an SOS issued right before it crashed.

Pie



[edit on 11-10-2006 by ThePieMaN]

Originally posted by stumason
Jebus, people. It's a plane crash. deal with it. No terrorist's, don't start panic buying just yet...

Honestly, they've got you all well conditioned haven't you?

What crap. There is a big difference between being "conditioned" as you put it, and discussing possible alternatives. Pardon me for daring to think.

I understand the plane involved in the accident is a Cirrus SR20.

A low wing, fixed tricycle landing gear composite construction aircraft.

From the flight characteristics and features.

In terms of avoiding an accident, one problem with the Cirrus is its unforgiving handling compared to other basic four-seaters. The plane is harder to keep level with rudders in a stall than a Cessna or Diamond; if in a deep uncoordinated stall, the Cirrus wants to drop a wing and go into a spin. Thanks to a "split-airfoil" wing design, in which the inner portion of the wing has a higher angle of attack than the outer portion, the Cirrus gives more of a stall buffet warning than many airplanes. The outer portion of the wings, which are in front of the ailerons, are still flying and permitting the pilot to control roll with the yoke, even as the inner sections of the wings may be stalled and creating a warning buffet. This illustrates one of the advantages of composite construction; you could build a metal wing like this, but it would be very costly. For pilots accustomed to learning about an impending stall by feeling reduced airloads on the flight controls, the Cirrus provides much less stall warning. This is due to spring cartridges that continue to resist flight control movement even when the airplane is not moving. In other words, the flight controls feel similar whether you're flying or stalled.

Flight Characteristics


Generally speaking, all aircraft have wing washout - defined as the wingtips have a higher angle of attack than does the mid-section and the root-section.
Washout makes for a gentler stall characteristic since the wingtips are still flying even if the mid-section and wing root are not
In the Cirrus this shows up as a warning buffet as Mr. Greenspun indicates in his write-up.


An interesting aspect to this aircraft is the internally mounted fuselage rescue parachute.
If installed, probably not used in this accident due to the speed with which the plane got into trouble.

From descriptions of observers - one a pilot - it appears to be a classic stall-spin accident at an altitude too low for recovery.

Here's a photo of the rescue chute deployed.



Video of rescue chute deployment


Photo of the Cirrus SR20.



For those who wonder why the Cirrus wasn't under ATC rules, I understand there is a VFR (Visual Flight Rules) corridor over the river.
As long as you stay under 2000' you can fly uncontrolled in VFR conditions.

Perusal of photos and video taken at the time, it appears the area was hazy and getting close to IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) requirements.

As a matter of interest, the FAA has run tests on VFR rated pilots that have no - or very little - instrument training and found it takes about 20 seconds for the non-IFR rated pilot to start losing control in IFR conditions.

It does appear that this may have happened here.
One of the things I'm hearing is the plane seemed to have recovered, but when it came out of the spin it was headed straight for the building.

The Cirrus is a higher performance plane than is the typical Cessna high winger.
With higher performance goes the requirement to stay well ahead of the airplane and that may have entered into this tragic accident.

A sad accident indeed and my heart goes out to family and friends of the pilot and passenger.



[edit on 11-10-2006 by Desert Dawg]

Originally posted by stumason
Jebus, people. It's a plane crash. deal with it. No terrorist's, don't start panic buying just yet...

Honestly, they've got you all well conditioned haven't you? Do you know how many light aircraft come down every day? In the summer, here in the UK, there were several over a couple of months. Not once did anyone go "Arrrgh!!! Terrorists!!"

Just calm down and breath deeply..it'll be ok.....

You must be joking. You been conditioned to give out this response everytime something happens that may or maynot be suspected of terrorism. Calm down and breathe deeply.

Out of all these small plane crashes every day, how many of them crash into the densly populated downtowns of one of the largest cities on earth, a city that barely 5 years ago experienced the horrifying intentional crashing of two airplanes into two large buildings?

I did not see anyone panicking about terrorism on this thread, just speculating. Reasonable speculation it is, too, when you realize that when the first plane struck the WTC, they thought it was an accident too.until the second plane hit.

Why dont you try calming down, eh?

Ppl, plz.

This was a NY Yankees pitcher Corey Lidle flying a plane.


The flight was all fine, until the plane rapidly dropped and eventually hit the building.


On all the sports channels.

Okay,

Before I send a "mayday" about the fuel, I am hitting the big red button "Parachute Open".

This incident smells fishy. Planes don't hit buildings in this manner very often at all. The only instances I can remember are all in NYC (yeh i dont count the pentagon). As I said in another thread, i wonder if something was happening somewhere else while all this attention was focussed on a seemingly unrelated incident uptown. I wonder if John Lear could shed some light on how the accident may have occurred.

Sad news, but not as sad as baseball. Great response from norad though Did the terrorists make norad stand down on 9/11? and remove the bomb sniffing dogs 5 days prior to 9/11?The terrorists work in government?

Wait, this type of plane he can eject yes or no?

Sad story let's just hope there was minimal casualties.

No he can't eject in this type of airplane. The airplane has a parachute built in for the entire aircraft but that doesn't help when slamming into a large solid object at high speed....unfortunately.

Ok.. so a 50 storey building took it from a small plane?

And the fire raged, the pictures that I saw on the news anyway..

And you know.. the building didnt fall.. and that was a big fire.. Hot.. with lots of fuel... Hmm

Apparently the aircraft was having some sort of fuel pickup problems after it circled the Statue of Liberty. This is what I believe must have happened for this plane to crash like that. Besides, in a city like New York, you ain't gotta many choices as to where to put the plane down. I honestly think he was trying to either get the plane back over the East River to ditch it or to somehow make it to LaGuardia in Brooklyn.

Originally posted by noslenwerd
but if you turn 9/11/01 180 degrees.. its 10/11/6

If ever there was a disproof of numerology, there it is.

And you know.. the building didnt fall.. and that was a big fire.. Hot.. with lots of fuel... Hmm

Hmm what? Are you seriously suggesting that a prop plane hitting a builidng is exactly like a commercial jet-liner laden with jet fuel for a flight across an entire continent hitting a building?? Hmm what? This plane bounced off the building, and it still caused a big fire. That means that bush did 911!? Give me a break.

[edit on 12-10-2006 by Nygdan]

Well first of all you quoted two people... Not one..

And Im just saying.. that a fire burning in a steel structure is supposedly what happened in NYC 5 years ago.. A plane hit another building.. smaller building.. smaller plane.. and yet.. NOTHING happened... it burned.. wow..

You know what.. Never mind.. Thanks though..

Cluck, Cluck.....

9/11 seems to have done more damage than we at first feared. It seems to have released some mutation that leads to the reduction of IQ....

Now we have people suggesting that baseball players are involved in...... actually on second thoughts - there really is very little point trying to talk sense to most 9/11 theorists and the whole 'life is a conspiracy - but but I can't prove it....' gang.

Personally I just feel sorry for the families involved.

Again.. First of all.. I wasnt implying that a Baseball player was involved in 9/11.. But thanks for the input, Now I suggest you just turn your computer off and walk away.. thanks..

What I was saying is that a fire raged in a steel structure building for an unknown (to me anyway) period of time.. and the building didnt fall.. Yeah ok the plane was smaller.. so was the building.. THink outside the box for one little minute..

Originally posted by Ox


What I was saying is that a fire raged in a steel structure building for an unknown (to me anyway) period of time.. and the building didnt fall.. Yeah ok the plane was smaller.. so was the building.. THink outside the box for one little minute..

Um, according to the witnesses the aircraft didn't even enter the building. It kind of crumbled up on the side of it and fell to the sidewalk.

Also, besides WTC 1, 2, 7, no steel building on the history of the planet has ever fell because of a fire.

Also, a few years ago, a B-25 Bomber crashed into the Empire State building.. nothing happened.

I still have no clue what you are getting at Ox.




[edit on 13-10-2006 by Slice]

That's my point.. Im getting at the structure held.. It didnt collapse as it did in the WTC and I'm not saying due to the impact.. Im saying due to the raging fire... Fire brought down the WTC.. it DIDNT bring this building down.. and it was a smaller building.. smaller aircraft.. it was proportionate..

And it wasnt a B-52..

At 9:49 a.m. on Saturday July 28, 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber flying in a thick fog accidentally crashed into the north side between the 79th and 80th floors, where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located; one engine shot through the side opposite the impact and another plummeted down an elevator shaft. The fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. 14 people were killed in the accident.[7] Despite the damage and loss of life, the building was open for business on many floors on the following Monday, July 30, 1945.

Source

So.. the point I am trying to make is that the official 9/11 story states that the fire dropped the WTC .. The fire didnt to too much damage from either the impact on the Empire state building from a B-25.. .or on the apartment building from this small aircraft...