How many muslims do you know?

I frequently get those hateful Muslim email forwards, which I refuse to pass on and usually reply to the sender with this statement , "I guess you didn't know that my youngest daughter's Godfather is a Muslim." That usually shuts them up! My roomate of many years married a guy who escaped from Afghanistan as the Soviets were taking over. He saw some terrible things before he left. He and his Mom and some of his brothers and sisters came to the US, where they put themselves through school. He is now quite successful, happily married, and American. He has a world view and education that puts me to shame. I am thankful that he has agreed to be my daughter's Godfather. I think people here where I live would never consider that anyone would have a relationship with a Muslim man, especially to the point of including such a man in the upbringing of their children! Small minds run rampant!

After 9/11 I started talking to one of the checkers at my local grocery store. She was a blond haired blue eyed woman who wore a scarf over her hair. I asked her if she was Muslim and she told me she was a Sunni-then I asked if people were treating her kindly and she said most but some were awful. We got to be friendly and often disscussed things as I was checking out. Her husband is Egyptian and she traveled back and forth frequently.

My second daughter's 1st grade teacher is Muslim. He is a kind and wonderful man and I am glad for my daughter's experience in his classroom.

I don't believe any of these people consider me an infidel, and none of them have tried to chop my head off! There are many lovely, peaceful people in this religion as there are in any religion. There are also some fanatics who have hijacked Islam, but we have those in the Christian and Jewish faiths as well.

I personally dont know any muslims, but the danish medias has done a great job informing about muslims, so its not like i dont know a lot about them at this point.. Granted that most of it came after 11/9, since it obviosly was needed.

to many and if we in the netherlands don't put an hold to the world domination of the muslim religion, the Netherlands will become a muslim nation with in the coming 10 years.

in about 4 years after the coming elections in november there will be an electable party for muslims and with this party getting allmost all of the votes of the 1.5 milion muslims on that moment and the supports from left winged organisations and collaberation of many people this party will become the biggest party in the netherlands and there for can claim power over all other parties , ending democratic establishments and making a muslim nation like iran from what was ones the nation whcih was to open and willing to accept all people which will become our down fall.

Originally posted by half_minded

Tell me how many and tell me how they acted towards you. Maybe you will begin to understand why you need to stop labelling muslims as terrorists and radicals.

So I suggest you stop the stereotyping and tell me how many of you know a muslim? and if you dont i suggest you might wanna meet some and try to get a picture of how muslims are. You will be surprised to know that they are human and eat and sleep just like any other human. They even go to work and pay taxes and raise a family and protect their family. I know, unbelievable isnt it. Also they dont have explosives sitting on top of their shelves at home. You can go check if you like.

This sounds as though you have asked a question yet claim to know the answer. It's presumptuous.

I believe that just because someone hasn't personally befriended Muslims, is not automatically indicative of some form of hatred on their part.

On balance, have you asked a similar question in a predominantly Muslim country or community?

Thanks.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Ross Cross]

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Ross Cross]

Fortunately I know none. It's just as well too as if one of them came anywhere near me I dont know what I would do.

Originally posted by MarkLuitzen
to many and if we in the netherlands don't put an hold to the world domination of the muslim religion, the Netherlands will become a muslim nation with in the coming 10 years.

in about 4 years after the coming elections in november there will be an electable party for muslims and with this party getting allmost all of the votes of the 1.5 milion muslims on that moment and the supports from left winged organisations and collaberation of many people this party will become the biggest party in the netherlands and there for can claim power over all other parties , ending democratic establishments and making a muslim nation like iran from what was ones the nation whcih was to open and willing to accept all people which will become our down fall.

Do you seriously think that is what will happen?
Muslims won't vote for a Muslim just because they share a religion. And you do realise that in order for your country to become a Muslim country it will take more than a Muslim governement?

It sounds to me more like you are the victim of a paranoia which has been gripping the nation recently. Islamophobia.
Yeah, so some Muslim fundamentalists have committed various bad crimes. But there are fundamentalists in other religions to, and they have also committed just as much damage.
This is just the next step in history repeating itself using a different religion.

I hang out with one friend Arif. He is a pretty nice guy and he is pretty smart. I know alot other muslim people but I know him the most.

I dont know any personally, but since im just a simple minded American I have automatically stereotyped them all as being funny potheads, based off the "Harold & Kumar go to whitecastle" movie. Well thats if he was even muslim which still remains a mystery to me.

My best friend is a muslim. In the time we have been friends (10+ years) I have learned a lot of the teachings of Islam. I can't find anything bad about it either. The funny thing though is that in this country there is this stereotype that the media and government have created that defames them and creates this perception that Islam is an exclusive religion for Arab Terrorists. What bull!
There is nothing in the teachings of Islam that fosters the perception created here.

I encourage poeple to get to know Muslims, or at least read the Koran and get familiar with Islam so you do not fall victim to the ignorance this country feeds everyone. The gestures Americans as a people make now toward Islam will dictate the future. We can either deny ignorance, or fall victim to it. They don't hate us, they hate our Government and the Christian and Zionist extremists (the real terrorists) who are behind it all, and with good reason!

I have a couple who are friends and they are both extremeley nice friendly and intelligent people. But that's why I like them

Originally posted by H34T533K3R
I dont know any personally, but since im just a simple minded American I have automatically stereotyped them all as being funny potheads, based off the "Harold & Kumar go to whitecastle" movie. Well thats if he was even muslim which still remains a mystery to me.

Just so you know...Kumar is Hindu/Indian he's not even Muslim



Anyway back to topic. Im not surprised by a few of the replies here..one guy actually has delusions of Muslims taking over his country just because they get representation in government, and another does not know what he would do if he came across one, which in itself is pretty scary if one doesn't know how to react when coming across another human. I wonder if he has to think sbout when he meets a Black person, an Asian or other Non-Whites. Thats pretty damn bad. Expect to see this guy in possible news articles for hate crimes maybe. Immediately following 9/11 in GB a kid punched a 6month old infant in the baby carriage just for being muslim...for all he knew the woman walking the baby could have been a muslim nanny and the baby a non-muslim. Lets just hope he doesn't decide to act like that.


Pie

Half_mind


You quote my entire post, you disagree with every thing I said even though I agreed with almost everything YOU said and why did you do this... oh.. maybe because I do not blindly except there are no problems within the Muslim community, because I think Muslims do not do enough to stop the violence, because I do not blindly follow the self righteous bandwagon and claim all people are just fun loving down to earth wholesome people. Well they arnt, there's bad people all over the place, and wow, including in the Islamic religion as well.

Why don't I bash Jews?.... for what? Israel is a predominantly Jewish nation not based on Jewish law, not represented by Jewish law, in no way forces other to convert. When the ignorant masses that call them selves the left understand the fundamental actions of Israel then they will understand it is NOT a Jew/Muslim fight at all, it is a mask used by Islamic extremist to gain support for their own actions, which if you knew jack about the Middle East you would also understand that the Middle East started using Extremism when nationalism failed - hence my standing that Muslims in general care about Muslims first nation second.

Why bash Christians? .. Honestly this is another left wing bs they like to spew to gain support for the self righteous movement.. The pope said a statement about a quote from long ago.. Muslims riot, burn churches, shoot nuns. Go religion of peace right? Now, did the pope in his pointy hat come to the window in the Vatican and say "I announce a crusade against all Muslims!!!" No, he didn't, why? Because hes intelligent, because he believes in peace, and the whole damn game the Muslims play would be an attitude expected form a 5 year old. Now, your probably shaking mad in your little liberal space boots, but you have to take into account the actions of the people who represent the religion in which you don't give a damn, or lack the intelligence to see.

You seem to want to know why the average Joe is suspicious of the average Muhammad, it is because of what they see and hear on TV and because of that they HAVE THE RIGHT to be suspicious of the actions of all Muslims because no Muslims state other wise in a loud enough voice. Where are the riots against Al Q? Where are the peace marches in condemnation over the violent acts like the London bombing? You won't find it because deep down the general Muslim population is root in for the underdog.

Now you'll say its all Americas fault, boo hoo, we are the big bad wolf eating the little Muslims..

9/11, and all attacks before, and you have to assume 9/11 happened by terrorist, no CT bs right now, I think the Gov did it, in context of the discussion put that aside and we will deal with the events the general public sees.

The terrorist attack us because we inhabit their land, yet no land was inhabited or occupied in anyway before 9/11.. we have military bases in Saudi Arabia and that is it, the hate stems from two areas, one, the Muslims have a hatred of Jews, you cannot lie about that they are blatantly anti semitic, they are angry about their past as well because they where to weak and had to succumb to European military might, the UK divided there land and since then have been unable to fix a problem that rest in there hands. The UK is long gone and yet they won't fix there own problem, they tried uniting to fight evil Jews and their homeland, that failed and they where embarrassed, so theocracy ran rampant, which when it does fuels hate for all those who are infidels, and a recipe for invasion because when you hit the big kid, big kid hits back right?

To go along with your line of thought and the left wing liberal self righteous movement after 9/11 we say "Hey you, don't be mean, lets play nice and say sorry for the 3,000 dead people you killed.." Well, they call for your assassination because the look on your face must have insulted Muhammad, so they go to war with you anyways, the whole world laughs at weak little America and groups around the world get bolder. Now, because most Americans are suspicious of Muslims because they think they where attacked by Muslims what do you propose.. oh I got an idea, we can have "Take a Muslim for a day on the town day!" ... or "Open mosque!" and we can walk hand in hand through the fields of flowers.. oh no that's right poppies.. through the fields of poppies, frolicking, maybe all American women can where a veil over their faces for a day.. ill bow to mecca, a city, three times a day... yeah lets just be Muslim for a day.. you know get the feel so we arnt human and have our suspicious attitudes.

Oh, and maybe we can take field trips to say Syria, because all those right wing bigots seem to think ME people hate us, I mean average Muhammad in Syria LOVES America, he even keeps a little uncle Sam doll under his bed and an American flag on the wall that says "Peace and love, Muslims and American BFF!!"

Ok, enough messing around, instead of looking at your self and the way you see the world I would like to propose that you get over your self, stop thinking your on higher moral ground and think like average Joe, maybe you will see what average Joe sees wrong with average Muhammad, which no one seems to want to do.. takes a little logical common sense.

Now, I will post and allow you to quote every segment so you can some way, some how, find a way to be more moral and correct then I all the while pretending my points where not valid because they conflict with your self righteous comment, I mean question? ... no.. no it was most definitely an opinion because you knew the answer right? And make the reply interesting please, I am so sick of reading mundane post where all you say is "Oohhh boo hooo the government did this... its not Muslims fault we did this.. you can't say that noo its contradicting your earlier statement!!" ...

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I know 3 and a half Muslims. They, all 3 and a half of them are homosexual gangster bikers called the jihads.

This was your opening statement and yet you claim that that you agree with everything I said in my original post. You are horribly mistaken.

And in you long post you ask me the same question I already answered.

And just a reminder once again. This thread was about how many muslims you know, and wat experience you had with them, good or bad? And I suggested how you could maybe get a better idea about them with personal experience rather than just through newspaper and media. And share the experiences here to give everyone a general idea of the situation.

Yet you post a long post filled with ridiculous assumptions and hate filled remarks about the muslims, all the while proving to all of us dear members that you are not even capable of understanding the post and the purpose of the thread, let alone having any common sense for a real, logical, reasonable argument.

I know muslims and they are good people for the most part. They are better people on average than their main enemies who parade around like they are innocent even though they may be the biggest troublemakers in the world.

I've known several Muslims in my life. All of them were exactly like any other person I've had the privilege of knowing while on my meandering journey through life: human, imperfect, and generally well intentioned yet capable of making mistakes while usually learning from them. None of them were violent, and none of them endorsed or supported violence. All but one of them were pacifists, in fact. I'm far more concerned with who someone is as an individual than I am with what faith they adhere to. How someone interprets the teachings inherent in their faith is far more relevant to their contribution or detriment to the world than which faith they belong to.

Has anyone else noticed the gradual drift away from the term "terrorist" and the replacement of that term with things such as, "Islamist," "Islamic militant," and (perhaps most absurdly) "Islamo-fascist?" Apparently the prefix word "Islamo" was added to the English dictionary when we weren't looking. I find this alarming. There are individuals in the world who consider themselves to be followers of Islam, and who also personally believe that terror is justified. Rarely is the question asked, however, "Are they followers of Islam or interpreters of Islam?" There are individuals in the world who consider themselves to be followers of Christ's words and deeds, and who also personally believe that violence and bloodshed are justifiable. Rarely is the question asked, however, "Are they followers of Christ's words and deeds, or interpreters of Christ's words and deeds?"

I contend that most adherents of every organized religion in the world are individual interpreters of their given faith, as opposed to pure, authentic examples of their faith. Furthermore I contend that there exist few if any pure, authentic example of any faith anywhere on the planet at this time, because 1) religion has become a tool, and 2) because establishing what the criteria for a "true" follower of one faith or another are, is by nature a subjective process and therefore potentially impossible to do with unanimity. For the layperson, religion is a personal tool and guide, and for the warrior (Muslim or otherwise,) religion has likewise become a tool and justification for their wars and the means by which their wars are waged. Thus it is not the faith, but rather the personal interpretation of faith, which produces the detrimental acts of destruction with which so many are now rightly concerned.

The Muslims I knew interpreted their faith in such a way that it precluded them from committing acts of violence, even in self defense, with the exception of one individual who would defend his family from - for example - a mugger. With that lone (rather reasonable) exception, they were pacifists. There are many who believe that the Muslim community (which is no more cohesive or organized than the transparently diverse Christian community of the world) would be less open to criticism or guilt by association if they more proactively distanced themselves from terrorists. While I agree that any religious person who believes in peace and human compassion has a responsibility to speak against movements to the contrary, I sharply disagree with those who posit that failure to do so makes establishment or implication of guilt by association justified. In my opinion, it does not. Speaking out against violence if one is opposed to it may be the responsible and right thing to do, however failing to do so does not confer shared guilt on all members of a faith by extension and should not automatically render them suspect.

In other discussions, the peaceful nature of the Koran and other Islamic scripture has been debated. However, my argument is that the content of religious scripture, religious organizational structure, and the words and deeds of a religion's leadership, are ultimately less critical to what an individual considers justifiable and unjustifiable than the individual religious adherent’s mental and emotional leanings, worldview, and inclinations.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by AceWombat04]

Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I know 3 and a half Muslims. They, all 3 and a half of them are homosexual gangster bikers called the jihads.

This was your opening statement and yet you claim that that you agree with everything I said in my original post. You are horribly mistaken.

Is it possible he just happens to know three and a half (maybe parents are muslim but converted?) muslims that are homosexual gangster bikers? He never made a value judgement, he is just stating a fact, and if you say facts are offensive then this ceases to be a debate and simply becomes masturbation.

Personally, my best friend is named Muhammad. He lived in Pakistan for awhile, but had to move here because the government was trying to kill his family (never got the full story out, but that seems to be the closest I can get). He is a very reasonable person and despite the fact that he makes a lot of sexist/religious comments, he is really joking for the most part.

Realize though that come here are the smartest and most motivated of their people. That is why you see people saying how much more motivated and intelligent the foreign students are at universities. You're just comparing their top 1% to our top 25%. From talking to a lot of these people, their countries citizens are no better than ours. The only reason they aren't as fat as us is because they don't have enough food (I have heard many foreigners say that they are surprised that the poor people in America are fat).

Seriously, Muslims are no different than us, for better or worse (in general, they do have some alarming extremists).

Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I know 3 and a half Muslims. They, all 3 and a half of them are homosexual gangster bikers called the jihads.

This was your opening statement and yet you claim that that you agree with everything I said in my original post. You are horribly mistaken.

And in you long post you ask me the same question I already answered.

And just a reminder once again. This thread was about how many muslims you know, and wat experience you had with them, good or bad? And I suggested how you could maybe get a better idea about them with personal experience rather than just through newspaper and media. And share the experiences here to give everyone a general idea of the situation.

Yet you post a long post filled with ridiculous assumptions and hate filled remarks about the muslims, all the while proving to all of us dear members that you are not even capable of understanding the post and the purpose of the thread, let alone having any common sense for a real, logical, reasonable argument.

I must say I don't understand your post much either, what is the point. Why does it always have to be about Muslims, why not " how many Jews or Catholics or whatever do you know". I tell you why, it's just to provoke people. I have noticed how you don't comment on replies like : I know 4 or 5 Muslims and they are fine and nice people. But the minute someone like Rockpuck makes a reply that doesn't suit you, you pounce. I thought you wanted a discussion on the subject, well then you have to be prepared to accept that others might have views that don't agree with yours.

Originally posted by PBscientist

Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I know 3 and a half Muslims. They, all 3 and a half of them are homosexual gangster bikers called the jihads.

This was your opening statement and yet you claim that that you agree with everything I said in my original post. You are horribly mistaken.

Is it possible he just happens to know three and a half (maybe parents are muslim but converted?) muslims that are homosexual gangster bikers? He never made a value judgement, he is just stating a fact, and if you say facts are offensive then this ceases to be a debate and simply becomes masturbation.

When did I say he was being racist. I said his claim that he agrees with me on everything is false.

Originally posted by Hermann

Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I know 3 and a half Muslims. They, all 3 and a half of them are homosexual gangster bikers called the jihads.

This was your opening statement and yet you claim that that you agree with everything I said in my original post. You are horribly mistaken.

And in you long post you ask me the same question I already answered.

And just a reminder once again. This thread was about how many muslims you know, and wat experience you had with them, good or bad? And I suggested how you could maybe get a better idea about them with personal experience rather than just through newspaper and media. And share the experiences here to give everyone a general idea of the situation.

Yet you post a long post filled with ridiculous assumptions and hate filled remarks about the muslims, all the while proving to all of us dear members that you are not even capable of understanding the post and the purpose of the thread, let alone having any common sense for a real, logical, reasonable argument.

I must say I don't understand your post much either, what is the point. Why does it always have to be about Muslims, why not " how many Jews or Catholics or whatever do you know". I tell you why, it's just to provoke people. I have noticed how you don't comment on replies like : I know 4 or 5 Muslims and they are fine and nice people. But the minute someone like Rockpuck makes a reply that doesn't suit you, you pounce. I thought you wanted a discussion on the subject, well then you have to be prepared to accept that others might have views that don't agree with yours.

What is so hard to understand about the post? Its a simple question yet we have people like RockPuck who come here writing a long post completely off topic and not even answering the question in a sensible manner. And you support him by saying he gave an opinion. And this thread is about muslim poeple......Why wud I add christian or jews in it. Its like making a post on Bush and asking people why are they not dicussing Kerry in it.

Given the world situation today, muslims are being stereotyped and suspected on a daily basis, hence the need for discussion.

I did comment about postive replies. A general comment and a general post. I cannot possibly reply to every single person about their experiences. I will obviously choose to reply to the negative replies because that is the issue at hand.

And to be perfectly clear, RockPuck did not make any contribution to this thread. I replied to people with both postive and negative experiences with muslims. I replied more personally to people with negative replies because they were very less in number and easy to discuss. If a muslim was nice to you then there is no point of discussing it further because the goal has already been achieved.....(to see that all muslims are not haters and suicide bombers).

And you have made no contribution to this thread watsoever other than backing up the most rridiculous reply in this entire thread. Please try to stick to the topic at hand and if this thread does not appeal you then you can choose to ignore it.

Mista Half_mind may I suggest you post little chit chat threads in BTS

You posted in PTS, you invite a confrontation from someone who does not ... fit in.. with your little view of the world.

Post in BTS and you can talk about all the friendly Muslims you want..

Post in PTS, make a statement like you did, an opinionated remark, a blatent political statement with no sociological significance what so ever and some one like my self will tell you otherwise, through my opinion and you will have to answer to me, like you have, even though I supposedly went off topic.

I was dead on topic friend, and as I advise before above, when you read a sentance please read words grouped together to find the significance it holds in the english language, then apply that to the topic at hand. Instead you appear to be picking single words or tiny phrases and saying I some how talked bad about Muslims.

A correct statement would be I did not say anything nice about Muslims, and I do not have to, nor do I feel they deserve nice comments from me, much like your self.

Taking your topic, applying it to world politics, being a political forum.. I am saying one Muslim, especially one living in the Western World will not give you reliable information on the group as a whole, especially where they are dominant in other regions of the world.

And you did, through the context of your little rant about my little rant, call me racist - you said I spoke bad about Muslims, that I don't like them.. I have no problem with Muslims, I have no reason to like them either.. i simply posed that you try and see through the average Americans eyes, not your self righteous eyes where all is good and friendly in this world.