How many muslims do you know?

My neighbourhood in small-town Yorkshire is a muslim majority, and it's a wonderful place to live. I get warm welcomes in my local halal butchers and superstore, smiles and waves from my muslim neighbours' kid whenever he sees me...there is such a strong sense of community here, something I found seriously lacking when I lived in the city, and it gives me a smile to feel that I am a part of that.

[edit on 10-10-2006 by timski]

I know 3 and a half Muslims. They, all 3 and a half of them are homosexual gangster bikers called the jihads.

Your question... er.. your statements maybe? ... or no... your opinion on the matter at hand is very broad...

Instead I ask you this and I expect a fully detailed explanation to the answer I know you will so willingly provide.

Given the fact that we where attacked, given the fact we where told it was Muslims who infact may have attacked us, given the information.. Why should the American people be cozzy with Muslims if the possibility remains one could stab you in the back?

Now, do I say all Muslims are evil Jihad crazed lunatics, no.. I don't think I have said that.

Would I say the religion as a whole is backing the actions in a specific region in which they are not directly linked because their religion offers no real substantial hiearchy of power and influence... Yes I would venture to makea comment along those lines, and I may also like to add that as a whole the community has not actively done enough to prevent or condemn the actions of terrorist.

Would I say that the Islamic religion also urges the unification of the entire Muslim faith in general on social issues to unite against the nations that peacfully harbor them, often protecting them as a refuge and safe haven.. that the incorrect teachings of the Koran as of late may have infected the religion with a deadly virus that gives the Islamic people this beliefe they are in some way holly acting in the same very way early christians did? Naturally, I feel that is obvious.

Would I say that all 3 major monotheistic religions are arrogant in their assumptions that they are in some way different, that they have different gods and that their holy sites and their holy books are not interconnected.. that the peoples of these faiths are growing blind to eachother not recognizing each other as the people of the book, that the circle of violence is flamed through the iggnorant religous preachers and self proclaimed holy men who think their gods care for only their segment of earth gene pool... Yes, I firmly would have to say that is obvious.

Would I say that a paticular political party has used religous differences and the unknown to institute fear into the populace, to use it as a propaganda machine, to insite the people that the barabaric men in rags attacked our fair empire? Of course, but was it for the best of the nation? you won't know until it is written in history, you cannot judge our times as would be seen 20 years from now.

On the same note, is another particular political party not using the side effects of the war and the biggotry to use it for their own self righteous quest to be on the higher moral ground, even if it disregards popular feeling and possibly exploiting the ignorance of the general public to make it seem like the administration has some how caused all these calamities to happen? OOOHH yes, political exploitation at its best.

How many Muslims do you know...

Does it matter how many Muslims I know, from the general view which is the way we base demographies, the general public knows little about the individual people in the religion. We care nothing about the average muhammad that sits in a vendor in Egypt, or drives a cab in NY... We care about the people who speak for them.

Based on their representatives, elected or not, supported or not, for what ever reasons they speak.. that is our preception of them and through that is where opinions are based.

When average Muhammad gets some go-nads and stands up and says Hey, Bin Ladin is NOT speaking for me! ... then the worlds opinion will change from seeing them as ignorant jihadist to misunderstood theocratically opressed people. But they won't, not even in the western world will someone arise with enough clout to put the true jihadist in their place and take a stand for the average men and women in the Islamic faith.

I don't care about the individual, and YOU can't make me, and my constitution says I can dislike who ever I damn well please, I can say what I please and you will not tread on that right, not with your self righteous preaching about how you love everyone and all that other complete and total BS, no, I see the population that is not activly protesting those who speak for it, I will continue to assume they stand in line wtih them. What our government does to Iraq does not have ANYTHING to do with UK Muslims, it has Jack to do with Muslims in America. I am of Irish decent.. do I go about worrying about Irish people or British people because 100 years ago my family came from there? NO. They want something to belong to, to represent and they stand in line with those who spew their hate and non sesne and the world will take what they give and put them in the nagative light. Spare me your little speach that because you have friendly relations with a Muslim that you are on higher ground buddy. I know a white guy, hes ok. He doesn't rob banks.. he hasn't raped a women to my knowledge, no drugs. Well.. I guess that means white folk don't do those crimes right? Please. Base your opinion on millions of people by looking at one individual is by far more ignorant then basing the millions on the many who represent them.

Over the years, about 2 dozen well enough to call friends...then there are aquaintances local business people and the like. I like characters so I am attracted to people who are different. I love finding about them, their lives and world.

If you reach a certian age and are not a character, you're a slacker and just aren't trying.

maybe a dozen or so, mainly 2nd/3rd generation, non/semi practicing.. plus quite a few casual aqaintances of various backgrounds. I don't know any ardently religious muslims well, though I've met and chatted to many, day to day.

Most muslims I meet hold views similar to your average ATS-er.... Hate bush, don't believe 9/11 story etc, probably reading sites like this. Culturally, the only difference is that even those non-practicing muslims, at least the ones I know, don't, or very rarely, drink.



[edit on 10-10-2006 by nowthenlookhere]

I knew several at school, and about 4 of those quite well. I also had a couple of profs who were Muslim. My doctor is probably a Muslim, too, although I've never actually asked if he was, but his ethnicity strongly suggests it. I've known a few other Muslims over the years, as well, and one guy who used to be a Muslim, but converted to another faith. (his family wasn't too happy about that, and prevented him until he was 18, after which they told him he could do what he wanted, even if they didn't like it, since he was an adult now)

There have been exceptions, but on the whole I've found them to be hard working, have strong family and extended family ties, be very serious about education (consequently, many Muslims I know come from rich families :p) and take their religion quite seriously. They've also been tolerant and respectful of my faith, even though they don't believe in it.

Of all the Muslims I have asked, none of them support bin Laden or Al Qaeda. They felt that he was giving Islam a bad name, and violating many of its core tenets. They probably want him dead as bad as anybody else.

I don't know if it has skewed my perceptions or not, but all Muslims who I have gotten well enough to know a lot about them, have all been Sunni. (who comprise about 9/10 of all Muslims worldwide) I assume Shiite and the other sects are similar. My Muslim friends have said that in practice, there is very little difference between Sunni and Shiite, and that, at least in my hometown, they get along with each other just fine.

Part of people's opinions towards Muslims is probably going to be personal, i.e. if they knew a few Muslims who were jerks, they may assume that they are all that way, or conversely, if they meet a few who are really great people, they may do the same. Like I said, most of the ones I've met have been good people, and only a few that I didn't like. (and none who were terrorists :p) I mention this bit because I know some people, like my uncle, who have met several Muslims and really don't like them at all. My uncle isn't so silly as to think they're all terrorists or plotting world domination or something, but he's met a few real bad ones at work, and he's read about some of the things going on in the Mideast, like the treatment of women, that he doesn't like at all. (quite frankly, I'm not happy about that, either, but I suspect that is a cultural rather than a religious thing, though that does not excuse it)

Anyway, it might be interesting to see what some other people say here, particularly those who are from countries with strong Muslim minorities (like France) or majorities (like pretty much anywhere in the Mideast).

Just finished instructing 15 Muslims in my field and found all of them to be pleasent people. One or two probably shouldn't have been doing the course due to their learning abilities but you get that in every course. As for their views on what was happening overseas, well they believed that the Muslim faith was about peace not war and thought that the extremists had it wrong.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I know 3 and a half Muslims. They, all 3 and a half of them are homosexual gangster bikers called the jihads.

This opening statement of yours already proves you a close minded individual who probanly never had any common sense and will never see the world for wat it really is. Instead you probably sit in your trailer somewhere, eating chips and cookies and drinking beer while your brain absorbs everything that being fed into your empty head through a device called television. Now that being said, I should not be replying to your hate filled, narrow minded post but Ill do it anyway coz heck i might actually enlighten you inthe process. worth a try.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Your question... er.. your statements maybe? ... or no... your opinion on the matter at hand is very broad...

My question....er.,...was not a stament.....er....not an opinion.....er......it was a SIMPLE QUESTION. But ofcourse, im not suprprised you failed to grasp a simple question much less answer it in a sensible manner. I got a little tip for. When a sentnce end with that thing...watts it called...oh yeah....QUESTION MARK (?)....then i assure you my friend that it is a question and not a statement or an opinion.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Given the fact that we where attacked, given the fact we where told it was Muslims who infact may have attacked us, given the information.. Why should the American people be cozzy with Muslims if the possibility remains one could stab you in the back?

Given the fact, given you were told. So you just absorb everything thats 'given' to you without actually doing some research or thinking of your own. So, if some hindu robs a store and you are 'given' the news on TV then you would automatically assume that every hindu is to be suspected and that you should totally cut yourself off from them and never try to see what that nice hindu family acroos the street actually is like. Ofourse, they might just stab you while you are walking you dog down the street.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Now, do I say all Muslims are evil Jihad crazed lunatics, no.. I don't think I have said that.

So, you mention a statement and then say that you never said that. So why would you say that in the first place. Its like me saying to a beautiful girl.....Hey, you probably look really hot naked but I didnt say that.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Would I say the religion as a whole is backing the actions in a specific region in which they are not directly linked because their religion offers no real substantial hiearchy of power and influence... Yes I would venture to makea comment along those lines, and I may also like to add that as a whole the community has not actively done enough to prevent or condemn the actions of terrorist.

Again the same thing. First you accuse by making a statement without any substantial evidence or logical reasoning then you say that you did not say that and only ventured to make a comment along those lines. Nice way to insult without taking responsibility. And you also critize the community has not done anything to condemn the terrorists then you are wrong. I have written a detailed post on that, i suggest you read it. heres the link . www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Would I say that the Islamic religion also urges the unification of the entire Muslim faith in general on social issues to unite against the nations that peacfully harbor them, often protecting them as a refuge and safe haven.. that the incorrect teachings of the Koran as of late may have infected the religion with a deadly virus that gives the Islamic people this beliefe they are in some way holly acting in the same very way early christians did? Naturally, I feel that is obvious.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Would I say that the Islamic religion also urges the unification of the entire Muslim faith in general on social issues to unite against the nations that peacfully harbor them, often protecting them as a refuge and safe haven.. that the incorrect teachings of the Koran as of late may have infected the religion with a deadly virus that gives the Islamic people this beliefe they are in some way holly acting in the same very way early christians did? Naturally, I feel that is obvious.

Every religion in the world desires that people accepts its faith and be a part of it. And they all do it peacefully. Yet, again and again, the west tries to portray that muslims kill people who do not accept their faith. It might be the case in some very backward muslim countries but that is largely because of the people's upbringing and lack of decent education, more of a culturual effect than religious. For example, muslim women are required to wear a 'burkha'. Burkha covers every part of the body except face, hands and feet, yet in some muslim countries women are forced to wear 'Niqab' which only leaves the eyes open and covers everything else. This is just ignorance on the part of people who make these rules because they do not even know whats actaully in the koran and wat it says. And in the end, the Koran is blamed for teaching evil and since muslims read koran, all muslims muslims must be evil. This is the kind of 'logic' being used these days.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Would I say that all 3 major monotheistic religions are arrogant in their assumptions that they are in some way different, that they have different gods and that their holy sites and their holy books are not interconnected.. that the peoples of these faiths are growing blind to eachother not recognizing each other as the people of the book, that the circle of violence is flamed through the iggnorant religous preachers and self proclaimed holy men who think their gods care for only their segment of earth gene pool... Yes, I firmly would have to say that is obvious.

So you agree that 3 major monotheistic religions are arrogant, yet I do not see you cursing the christians or jews or criticizing them like you did at the opening of your post against muslims. And not to mention, this post was meant to ask if people actually know any muslims and what they think of the muslims based on their own judgement and reasoning. Yet you are here writing a whole long post on your opinions in general from what you see on TV and news. Infact, this thread requires that you should actaully know some muslim people and discuss your opinions on them.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Would I say that a paticular political party has used religous differences and the unknown to institute fear into the populace, to use it as a propaganda machine, to insite the people that the barabaric men in rags attacked our fair empire? Of course, but was it for the best of the nation? you won't know until it is written in history, you cannot judge our times as would be seen 20 years from now.

So you now agreed that all this was just a propoganda used by the government to fuel war just for the nation's own interest. You just agreed to what I have been saying all along. Do you even know which side of the fence you are on. Read it again and try to see what your unconcious mind is telling you and try to poen that concious mind of yours a little and grasp the reality. And ofcourse, i will judge your times, because it is my time too. After 20 years, the world will be much different, im not bothered abt tat, i got bigger things to worry at the present time.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
On the same note, is another particular political party not using the side effects of the war and the biggotry to use it for their own self righteous quest to be on the higher moral ground, even if it disregards popular feeling and possibly exploiting the ignorance of the general public to make it seem like the administration has some how caused all these calamities to happen? OOOHH yes, political exploitation at its best.

Firs you say that administration did it by using propoganda then you say people blame the administration for doing it. So you are saying that the administration can do wrong things and people are wrong for blaming them. Doesnt make sense buddy.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
How many Muslims do you know...

Does it matter how many Muslims I know, from the general view which is the way we base demographies, the general public knows little about the individual people in the religion. We care nothing about the average muhammad that sits in a vendor in Egypt, or drives a cab in NY... We care about the people who speak for them.

Based on their representatives, elected or not, supported or not, for what ever reasons they speak.. that is our preception of them and through that is where opinions are based.

Yet again, here you are agreeing to my very basic point without even knowing that you agreed to it. Ofcourse it matters how many muslims you know. The whole point of knowing the average muhammad that drives a cab in NY is too see for youserlf and form your own opinions rather than basing your view entirely on the demographics fed to you by media and making general assumptions about every muslim based on the people who think that they speak for muslim community.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
When average Muhammad gets some go-nads and stands up and says Hey, Bin Ladin is NOT speaking for me! ... then the worlds opinion will change from seeing them as ignorant jihadist to misunderstood theocratically opressed people. But they won't, not even in the western world will someone arise with enough clout to put the true jihadist in their place and take a stand for the average men and women in the Islamic faith.

What do you think I am trying to do here. Why do you think I am posting this long thread and replying to ignorant people in length hoping to enlighten them about the true nature of muslims and to try and encourage people to see for themselves.
And again I will direct you to my post as i did earlier in which I talk in length and answer your question in detail.
heres the link, www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I don't care about the individual, and YOU can't make me, and my constitution says I can dislike who ever I damn well please, I can say what I please and you will not tread on that right, not with your self righteous preaching about how you love everyone and all that other complete and total BS, no, I see the population that is not activly protesting those who speak for it, I will continue to assume they stand in line wtih them. What our government does to Iraq does not have ANYTHING to do with UK Muslims, it has Jack to do with Muslims in America. I am of Irish decent.. do I go about worrying about Irish people or British people because 100 years ago my family came from there? NO.

First you accuse average muslims for not standing up against the radicals, then you state that you are Irish and you dont care about Irish people in britain because you are not from there. I got 2 words for u. DOUBLE STANDARDS. Why do you expect the muslims to care then (even thought they do and are trying to voice their opinion). why do u expect them to care about wat some nut sitting in a cave in Afghanistan is saying. And the constitution gives you right to dislike someone but it does not give you right to spread the hate you have in your mind and also does not give you right to disrespect them or insult them just because you dont like them. And a reminder, constitution applies to all citizens, regardless of religion or race.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
They want something to belong to, to represent and they stand in line with those who spew their hate and non sesne and the world will take what they give and put them in the nagative light. Spare me your little speach that because you have friendly relations with a Muslim that you are on higher ground buddy. I know a white guy, hes ok. He doesn't rob banks.. he hasn't raped a women to my knowledge, no drugs. Well.. I guess that means white folk don't do those crimes right? Please. Base your opinion on millions of people by looking at one individual is by far more ignorant then basing the millions on the many who represent them.

I never said you should base your opinion on the millins of people by looking at one individual. I asked everyone to take the effort of knowing some mulsims around the globe and form their own opinion of them. And of all the genuine replies I got, 9 out of 10 think that muslims are not suicidal or barbaric and are average people like you and me (well, me atleast, dunno abt u). I think that speaks for itself. If you were right about muslims then most of these replies should have talked negatively about muslims.

I have a Muslim in my family and have met his parents. They're lovely people, loving, caring people.
Much more so than other non-muslims.

Not every muslim is a terrorist or is willing to blow themselves up for any cause.

Well since I live in a pre-dominately arab neighborhood I know tons of them. Since my parents own 2 restaurants (1 of them being a middle eastern restaurant) , plus my own business, I come in contact with all different kinds of arabs as well as arab and asian muslims. I have seen some real hypocrites that gamble and drink just like any other Americans and yet still claim to be devout muslims and I have met strict ones. Never had a problem with any of them. Even with Lebanese muslims whom were at war with my people I never had a problem, they give me business, eat at my parents place with no problems or ever a worry. I've been in business over 17 years and my parents have been in business for well over 30 years. They have muslim workers and Jewish (Syrian Jews) customers with no hassles or problems. I have a Mosque and a Hooka store right across the street from my store and the Immam there comes by and gives me business and he's very pleasant. The hooka place always sends customers my way and I alway meet nice people who always wave and say hello to me when Im at my store.

As far as the situation in the ME goes well they all have cursed the day Bin Laden did what he did. They don't like the idea of their fellow muslims getting killed but then again we don't like to hear about our own getting killed either. Many Car Service drivers who support their families back home especially hate Bin Laden since their business have dropped over 50% or more. Their reasoning was that although he claimed to be helping Muslims, he in fact did nothing of the sort. The majority of car services here in this part of Brooklyn had the bulk of their business driving people to the WTC. Since this no longer exists its hurt a lot of them.

As far as some of the people here go..listen..some of them probably wouldn't be able to tell a Siekh from a Muslim let alone know what one looks like. They are just either predjudiced or one of these religious zealots that are making this into a 2nd Crusade.

Pie

I know 7 not including the one that went of her nuts at me because I caught her stealing at work and called me 'skippy white aussie boy' amoungst other racist terms.

3 of the Muslims I know are extremley nice people. Easy to get along with and we both respect each others religions and educate each other on our religions for a better understanding of each others culture.

The other 4 I know are completley crazy. 2 of them are in the same family. When I had a discussion with my mate about Osama Bin Laden with my friend saying how I hope he burned for 9/11 he threatened me with violence and literally screamed at me for 5 minutes.

The other 2 openly admit to a will to fight with malitia in Iraq and carry out missions of Jihad.

I've actually reported them to the authorities.

They are entitled to having their own opinion. Its like someone saying they wanna be in the US military. They just have different views on things than you. I would not report anyone to the authorities if they said that they think would be willing to fight for the US army in Iraq and kill more innocent people. Its just difference of opinion. However, the guy u mentiones, i wud be concerned about him. Someone who is actually screaming at you and is threatening you would be cause of concern and I would report him to the authorities for sure.

Originally posted by half_minded
Since I been on ATS, I have noticed how there is always an argument about Muslims VS non-muslims. Muslim this, Non-muslim that. Looks like the western media has succeeded in making muslims look like terrorist. Just because some radicals of a religion act in a violent way does not mean you can treat every person of that religion as a suspect.

i totally agree with this, fundies exist in all religions and tarnish the reputation and belief system they claim to follow.

Now, I come to the question?.....Please let me know how many muslims you actually know? and that is not counting some muslim guy who lives down the street whom you occasionally say Hi to. I mean, muslim people or families you actually know and have actually talked to on some occasion or hung out with.

i went to highschool with a muslim kid, though i didn't get along with him all the time because our personalities clashed, he was an all around nice guy.

Tell me how many and tell me how they acted towards you. Maybe you will begin to understand why you need to stop labelling muslims as terrorists and radicals.

i agree that we shouldn't blanket label all muslims as terrorists and radicals, although on the other side of that...most terrorist actions we talk about happen in a region almost entirely muslim. some people, not i, find it hard to differentiate. and i'll say why in the next answer.

Also, people always crticize the 'moderate' muslims of not standing up against radical muslim leaders. Tell me, how many americans actually stood up against Bush and stopped him from killing thousands of people in Iraq and afghanistan. Surely, not every single person living in those countries was a terrorist. In fact, to kill a terrorist in one house, they blew up the entire block (just an analogy). So why didnt the americans stand up against Bush and protested against killing so many innocent people and not to mention its own soldiers. It was like pushing them into the lion's den.

first off, moderate muslims DO have to standup and force the networks to acknowledge them and the fact that not all muslims are terrorists or radicals. it's called free speech and they need to excersize their right to it more. and i would say that to any religious group being treated this way.
secondly, it's war...people die. sure it's callously called " collateral damage" but honestly that's what happens. people need to get over the fact that innocent people die in war, it's happened that way for the entirety of human history. instead of complaining about war maybe people should figure out good ways to get us out of there and get the iraqi gov what they need to be a solid iraqi state.
to be continued....

EDIT: spelling error that changed the intended meaning of a sentence. whew that could have been bad!

[edit on 11-10-2006 by optimus primal]

[edit on 11-10-2006 by optimus primal]

Originally posted by half_minded
They are entitled to having their own opinion. Its like someone saying they wanna be in the US military. They just have different views on things than you. I would not report anyone to the authorities if they said that they think would be willing to fight for the US army in Iraq and kill more innocent people. Its just difference of opinion. However, the guy u mentiones, i wud be concerned about him. Someone who is actually screaming at you and is threatening you would be cause of concern and I would report him to the authorities for sure.

The US army is a legal organisation. As far as I am aware Al Quaeda in Iraq or The Al Sadr brigades are highly illegal according to the constitution of Iraq.

I see where you are coming from though. But having seen the way these guys act - I won't be suprised if their mugshots come up on TV after a train bombing.

I'm aftaid I don't know any muslims at all. Just for the mere fact that there is none in this smallish town that I live.
There's plenty of Muslim people around in the city, I just don't have much cause to go there that often and get to meet any.
Even if I did they'd be just people to me anyway, I think labeling people with this religion and that religion is rediculous.

How many actually did something or stopped Bush. None. Why? because you cant, he is your president and can do watever he wants with or without your support as long as he can get enuough people to support him.

umm...because we were told things that weren't true and made to believe that by attacking iraq we would be both freeing oppressed people and striking back at terrorists. and your second statement makes no sense " he can do what he wants without our supposrt as long as he gets enough people to support him"? that cancels itself out, unless you mean the right people as in just the congress and not we the citizens? well let me tell you something, i don't like having pell grant funding being cut, but there's not a damn thing i can do about it except write an angry letter and possible vote against my congressman if he voted for the cut, or vote against the party who sanctioned it in the next pres election.....other than that we don't really have power.

So I suggest you stop the stereotyping and tell me how many of you know a muslim? and if you dont i suggest you might wanna meet some and try to get a picture of how muslims are. You will be surprised to know that they are human and eat and sleep just like any other human. They even go to work and pay taxes and raise a family and protect their family. I know, unbelievable isnt it. Also they dont have explosives sitting on top of their shelves at home. You can go check if you like.

already told you one in highschool. i don't think they are inhuman. not unbelievable. and honestly.....i think the vast majority of americans don't believe all muslims are terrorists. however that is my opinion.


optimus

I know many Muslims and they are normal people like myself, against terrorism. I think they should be treated with the same respect we give everyone else, however, in the end I think the world is better off without Religion

I used to go school with loads of Muslims and I keep in touch with most of them. I probably know well over 10.

And at least 6 of them I'd call my best friends. We always debate about religion, Islam, and atheism and we always keep it civilised.

FYI all of my Muslim friends say that any kind of terrorist who suicide bombs isn't a true Muslim. One of them told me that the Koran says you can't take your own life so killing yourself isnt gonna get you into Heaven, and killing others with you just adds to the list of atrocities you do.

My Muslim friends are wicked! I enjoy learning about their culture form them, they taught me some Urdu, and the best thing is one of my friends parents owns a Pakistani restaurant.......