Where are the Bush supporters now??

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posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by half_minded

As I said before, OIL and WORLD DOMINATION. yet you seem to have been stuck on my one poiint about US attacking OIL rich countries and you try to attack my argument using the same point over and over again blowing it out of proportion. My thread was to shed a different light on the situation and to give you examples and show you as to why you need to stop following Bush blindly and try to do some research and apply some logical thinking and reasoning. Then you will begin to see that things may not be as they seem.


And yet we have evidence that American troops have started pulling out of Saudi Arabia as well as Europe and even South Korea under the Bush administration. So wheres the world domination?





Confused? im not surprised. Try to read it over and over again and you might understand the simple point im trying to make. maybe then you might actually be able to argue against them.


The reason I don't under stand this...


Except my conclusion, which I deduced from my own common sense and logical reasoning after seeing the 'evidence'.


Except my conclusion?

Maybe I am surprise.




posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 02:13 PM
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It's funny how you assume that because no one replies to you within an hour and a half that the Bush supporters are in hiding - most of us have jobs and can't sit here all the time ;-) yes that was a dig, but it was a joke. How about this, I still support Bush on his actions in Afghanistan and in Iraq. I think that it has been difficult and we have always known that it will be. I think there is a very real clash of cultures going on and basically, as it always does, the killing will continue until both sides get sick of it and come to an understanding and acceptance of each other.

Have mistakes been made? Yes. Will they continue to be made? Yes. But even at this point I think that Bush has been doing the right thing. A big difference between conservatives (Bush supporters as you put it) and liberals (Bush bashers, as I put it) is that conservatives are mature enough to know that nothing will ever go 100% according to plan and changes have to be made along the way. It is only arrogance that assumes that if things don't go perfectly then the entire thing must be a mistake and scrapped.

And on the North Korea front - there is a huge difference between the GLOBAL threat of muslim extremists and the REGIONAL threat of North Korea.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Marid Audran]

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Marid Audran]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Marid Audran
Have mistakes been made? Yes. Will they continue to be made? Yes. But even at this point I think that Bush has been doing the right thing. A big difference between conservatives (Bush supporters as you put it) and liberals (Bush bashers, as I put it) is that conservatives are mature enough to know that nothing will ever go 100% according to plan and changes have to be made along the way. It is only arrogance that assumes that if things don't go perfectly then the entire thing must be a mistake and scrapped.

Well put.
Things can and will go wrong; that's why contingency plans are drawn up. But, as you so aptly said, there are those who will condemn the entire concept because we had to go to plan B.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by Marid Audran

And on the North Korea front - there is a huge difference between the GLOBAL threat of muslim extremists and the REGIONAL threat of North Korea.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Marid Audran]

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Marid Audran]


I fear a muslim far more than a nuke.... (sarcasm)

How much further can we get from reality? I'll just keep reading these responses from the Bush supporters.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Marid Audran
Have mistakes been made? Yes. Will they continue to be made? Yes. But even at this point I think that Bush has been doing the right thing. A big difference between conservatives (Bush supporters as you put it) and liberals (Bush bashers, as I put it) is that conservatives are mature enough to know that nothing will ever go 100% according to plan and changes have to be made along the way. It is only arrogance that assumes that if things don't go perfectly then the entire thing must be a mistake and scrapped.

Well put.
Things can and will go wrong; that's why contingency plans are drawn up. But, as you so aptly said, there are those who will condemn the entire concept because we had to go to plan B.


The entire plan of the Iraq invasion is worthy of condemnation because it was not drawn up to:

Liberate the people of Iraq
Contain the regional and global threat of Saddam or Terrorism
Neutralize a threat of WMD
etc.

It was to:

secure the 2nd largest Oil field in the world, and secure geo political domination through the control of the reserves.

Neutralize the threat of OPEC switching to Euros as the preferred currency

Continue securing a stronghold in the MidEast for the purpose of geo-politcal domination

Continue globalism through the exploitation of out-dated fossil fuel energy/technology.

Solidify the US supremacy in the world economy which is held tightly by fossil fuel energy.

and on and on..



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by tha stillz
I fear a muslim far more than a nuke.... (sarcasm)

How much further can we get from reality? I'll just keep reading these responses from the Bush supporters.


Well, you should fear the Muslim extremist more than you fear the nuke (unless you live in South Korea, Japan or I guess, even North Korea with their record on delivery systems). Their nuke has virtually no range and is isolated by geography and internal policies. Extremists have the potential to exist anywhere and bombs are easy to make. Granted, unless you are in the Middle East you don't even have that much to fear relatively speaking.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by tha stillz
The entire plan of the Iraq invasion is worthy of condemnation because it was not drawn up to:

Liberate the people of Iraq
Contain the regional and global threat of Saddam or Terrorism
Neutralize a threat of WMD
etc.

First of all, this thread is about North Korea, not the Iraq war. There are dozens of threads about the Iraq war; why do you want to derail this one?


It was to:
secure the 2nd largest Oil field in the world, and secure geo political domination through the control of the reserves.

Neutralize the threat of OPEC switching to Euros as the preferred currency

Continue securing a stronghold in the MidEast for the purpose of geo-politcal domination

Continue globalism through the exploitation of out-dated fossil fuel energy/technology.

Solidify the US supremacy in the world economy which is held tightly by fossil fuel energy.

and on and on..

In other words, if it had been launched for humanitarian reasons, that would have made it OK?

Secondly, what is wrong with working for our own self-interests? Do you support the Oil-for-Food program that benefited France, Germany, and Russia at the expense of the Iraqi people? Or do you also condemn that as illegal and immoral?

What is your position regarding this? Or is it strictly run-of-the-mill anti-Bush liberalism?



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Marid Audran

Originally posted by tha stillz
I fear a muslim far more than a nuke.... (sarcasm)

How much further can we get from reality? I'll just keep reading these responses from the Bush supporters.


Well, you should fear the Muslim extremist more than you fear the nuke (unless you live in South Korea, Japan or I guess, even North Korea with their record on delivery systems). Their nuke has virtually no range and is isolated by geography and internal policies. Extremists have the potential to exist anywhere and bombs are easy to make. Granted, unless you are in the Middle East you don't even have that much to fear relatively speaking.


You say that they have no range. This is based on what, the tests they did last month or two? Those missles could have been taken down purposely to give the impression that they aren't really a threat, meanwhile accomplishing what they wanted.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 03:55 PM
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North Korea is a different animal…as is Iran from Iraq…Iraq from Afghanistan..into infinitum comparing N. Korea and US policies to dissimilar nations wipe away volumes of history and years of discourse…a plethora of reasons and differences.


Originally posted by half_minded
Maybe you should go and ask an Iraqi if he/she preferred Saddam or the 'present' iraq....You will get your answer.



Question to Iraqis: Thinking about any hardships you might have suffered since the US-Britain invasion, do you personally think that the ousting of Saddam Hussein was worth it or not?

information from sourced chart

Worth it:

Overall 77%

Kurd 91%
Shia 98%
Sunni 13%


WPO Poll
January 2006 (pdf)


www.brookings.edu..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> secondary source: Iraq Index, October 9, 2006, pg 51 (pdf)




Originally posted by half_minded
You say the insurgents are responsible for killing more people than americans, then answer me this. How many people were dying in Iraq before/after the attack.


Here’s a shocker… civilians have died, die and will die in martial conflicts. But is it really about twisted simpleton body counts from point ‘A’ to point ‘B’?… here provides many sources to address your premise.

The rest aside and flagrancies addressed…most of the derailed topic should be referenced to the myriads upon myriads of similar threads on Iraq…pick one and resurrect it.

As for labeling…

Reasonable persons can support elements and/or policies while not supporting all. Equally not support the party and/or the administration yet agree with decisions. However, merely attempting to discuss successes or elements of policies stemming from Bush receives this “Supporter” label far too quickly and squelches most attempts concerning any discussion (heck try and mention an ounce of support for any Israeli action no matter how small!).

But to discount or dismiss the current administration in its’ entirety based upon certain specific real-time actions and miscalculations (w/o the benefit of hindsight) during attempts at discussions reeks of the same tired flaunted argument which is often used to defame the executive branch…‘if you are not with us you are against us’ and such…snap binary judgments makes one guilty of very similar grievances, yes? Not to mention narrow minded.


Mg



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by Marid Audran
It's funny how you assume that because no one replies to you within an hour and a half that the Bush supporters are in hiding - most of us have jobs and can't sit here all the time ;-) yes that was a dig, but it was a joke.


Please point out to me where exactly I said that 'no one replied to me so all the bush supporters are in hiding'. Also, I have a job too. not that it relevant to the thread at all.


Originally posted by Marid Audran
How about this, I still support Bush on his actions in Afghanistan and in Iraq. I think that it has been difficult and we have always known that it will be. I think there is a very real clash of cultures going on and basically, as it always does, the killing will continue until both sides get sick of it and come to an understanding and acceptance of each other.


Clash of culture? Then why doesn't US military leave these countries and end the clash. Killing will continue until US is there so why not leave and worry about the violence in your own country.


Originally posted by Marid Audran
Have mistakes been made? Yes. Will they continue to be made? Yes. But even at this point I think that Bush has been doing the right thing. A big difference between conservatives (Bush supporters as you put it) and liberals (Bush bashers, as I put it) is that conservatives are mature enough to know that nothing will ever go 100% according to plan and changes have to be made along the way. It is only arrogance that assumes that if things don't go perfectly then the entire thing must be a mistake and scrapped.


Things not going perfectly and according to plan is one thing. But things being messed up completely since Bush came into power and his conatant failure at securing any world peace (if he is even trying to do that) is another. Bush's policies have only left a lot more people dead, increase in conflicts, clashes in culture and tensions all around the world. Terrorists were present even before Bush came into power. But its funny how terrorism has been such a global problem and a constant threat since Bush came into power.


Originally posted by Marid Audran
And on the North Korea front - there is a huge difference between the GLOBAL threat of muslim extremists and the REGIONAL threat of North Korea.


Global threat of muslim extremists. Sounds like a very ignorant comment without any real basis to it. Since when did terrorist become the same thing as muslim extremists.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by tha stillz
I fear a muslim far more than a nuke.... (sarcasm)


I fear ignorant, close minded, common sense lacking, unreasonable, anti-peace loving people like you very dangerous.

So we both have high opinions of each other. How does this contribute to the thread?



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by tha stillz
The entire plan of the Iraq invasion is worthy of condemnation because it was not drawn up to:

Liberate the people of Iraq
Contain the regional and global threat of Saddam or Terrorism
Neutralize a threat of WMD
etc.

First of all, this thread is about North Korea, not the Iraq war. There are dozens of threads about the Iraq war; why do you want to derail this one?



The context of this post was to to the Iraq War - is that not obvious?



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by tha stillz
I fear a muslim far more than a nuke.... (sarcasm)


I fear ignorant, close minded, common sense lacking, unreasonable, anti-peace loving people like you very dangerous.

So we both have high opinions of each other. How does this contribute to the thread?


Obviously this is a heated topic. You do not know me. Therefore it is ignorant to call me these names.



BTW Half, from what I have read, I am on your side of the fence - not being a bush supporter. I think you might have misread my post - I was trying to be sarcastic.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by tha stillz]

[edit on 11-10-2006 by tha stillz]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:12 PM
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So you present a poll showing some numbers. Who conducted the poll. How do you know they actually went into Iraq and door to door to actually conduct the poll?

Wat does it prove at all.

Are you too blind to see that hundreds of people are dying everyday.

It is easy for you to say that body count from point A to B is irrelevant because its not your city being bombed, its not your family being killed, its not your house being destroyed.

Throughout history world leaders have used such tactics to wag war in their own personal interests watever it may be.....money...power. We have history books filled with such events, yet people are so blind to see the real truth of whats happening right now.

Keeping everything aside. There is no way anyone can deny that Iraq was a much better place before US invaded it. And the results of this war was known before it was launched still Bush decided to go ahead with it. Why?

He obviously did not care about the lives of thousands of people including his own men. I do not see why is it so hard to put the puzzle pieces together and see that the 'official story' never makes complete sense.

Maybe if you guys experienced a war in your neighbourhood, then you would understand the reality of it.

I must add, I was in kuwait when Iraq invaded kuwait. I know what a war really is like. So all you bush supporters, stop and think for a second.......imagine yourself as an Iraqi living in Iraq and trying to raise a family when suddenly US invades and your whole world falls apart.

How can anyone support Bush after the amount of people he has killed in the last 5 years?



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by tha stillz

Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by tha stillz
I fear a muslim far more than a nuke.... (sarcasm)


I fear ignorant, close minded, common sense lacking, unreasonable, anti-peace loving people like you very dangerous.

So we both have high opinions of each other. How does this contribute to the thread?


Obviously this is a heated topic. You do not know me. Therefore it is ignorant to call me these names.



BTW Half, from what I have read, I am on your side of the fence - not being a bush supporter. I think you might have misread my post - I was trying to be sarcastic.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by tha stillz]

[edit on 11-10-2006 by tha stillz]


Well, my bad then. I didnt understand fully the whole sarcasm thing. I guess im losing my lid cause of all the discussion here. As you said, heated discussion.

I was being sarcastic too if you noticed. Thats why i said we both have HIGH opinions of each other.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by half_minded]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:19 PM
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continiuing to try to wrap your brain around the logic of a republican is like trying to eat an old sandwich... Kind of makes you want to vomit, so I understand your losing your lid.

Much love.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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What really amazes me is not the topic at all, but the posts on this thread.

It has become clear to me that those who hate President Bush and are against his actions are always, completely right!!!

Now that in itself is totally fantastic....


Now add this to the mix....

Those of us that support President Bush are ALL war mongers, Unintelligent, peace hating imbeciles.. WOW

What an epiphany ...

So let me get this straight....

To hate President Bush means that I would be right in everything I believe in to the exclusion of everyone that disagrees with me... HMMMMMMM
I would be more honorable, peaceful and loving of life in general.

There is only one drawback...

I would have to believe all of this and be closed minded and conceited in my belief in my own infallibility. Thus attributing almost God-like stature to my ability to discover and expose the truth.

I short, I would have to have a closed mind....

Remember... Anytime you think your right to the exclusion of any other assumption, either your "Mr. Spock, or your fooling yourself.

Semper



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

It was to:
secure the 2nd largest Oil field in the world, and secure geo political domination through the control of the reserves.

Neutralize the threat of OPEC switching to Euros as the preferred currency

Continue securing a stronghold in the MidEast for the purpose of geo-politcal domination

Continue globalism through the exploitation of out-dated fossil fuel energy/technology.

Solidify the US supremacy in the world economy which is held tightly by fossil fuel energy.

and on and on..

In other words, if it had been launched for humanitarian reasons, that would have made it OK?

Secondly, what is wrong with working for our own self-interests? Do you support the Oil-for-Food program that benefited France, Germany, and Russia at the expense of the Iraqi people? Or do you also condemn that as illegal and immoral?

What is your position regarding this? Or is it strictly run-of-the-mill anti-Bush liberalism?


My position is to pull out of this nose dive before we disrupt the biosphere to the point of no return. By this I mean release the suppressed technology of zeropoint energy that has been ready for application since the 50's. By doing this we no longer need oil and aren't slaves to the energy companies. Do yourself a favor, watch a Steven Greer Disclosure Project video, or visit Disclosureproject.org. This guy is not full of sh*t.

Does this answer your question?

[edit on 11-10-2006 by tha stillz]

[edit on 11-10-2006 by tha stillz]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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Grady I'll have to take issue on a number of points you made, 1. Bush took the war to the enemy, who exactly is the enemy, the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis, Bush did not attack them did he I wonder why.
2. Saddam was a threat to the world, oh really, just exactly how does a tin pot despot of a third world country with very limited forces become a threat to the world. You might as well claim that Somalia or Mexico are a threat to the world but we all know there not.

Even your claim of he was a threat to the region is false, Iraq-Iran fought themselves to a standstill for years and got nowhere, at best he was more capable of killing innocent civilians than being a military threat to anybody. And to claim that he was a threat to the worlds only superpower is ridiculous as witnessed by Iraq1/2.
The US/UK were quite happy to supply and arm both these countries in the past and now we play the righteous card. If your nextdoor neighbour was a theif would you give him a spare set of keys to mind no you would not so why do we allow our elected goverments to arm countiries that then threaten us.

Why dont people just be honest and say that we went into the Middle East to assure our future oil supplies and to protect Israel, I,m getting fed up of the war on terror bull all the time.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 06:24 PM
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I agree,but am I the only person who agrees with Chavez? Bush may not be the devil,but he isn't a saint. I personaly believe that socialism is better than capitalism. Republicans and Demacrats both think that capitalism is wonderful,but it isn't. We should go against them both and choose a better way...which is socialism. I hope others agree. We should get Bush out before we all pay the price. I am no antiamerican,but our government could use a major tune-up. Thats why i believe in the alternative...which again is socialism. We can't be idle and let the government say what wars we should fight. We need to get up and say "no we can't afford more death,more debt,and more suffering to countless people,who can't even stand up for themselves. That being the poor people of Africa and the Middle East who are getting killed without mercy. Why doesn't Bush send troops to Africa? They have had even more wars and deaths than the people of the Middle East. So I ask why to president Bush,why don't they get the aid they deserve? Why don't we help the people of all the developing countries modernise? Does anyone agree? So while we waste tens of millions of dollars on Iraq,Africans are suffering and paying the price for Bush's ignorance. I personally say we should do something about it. We all should do something about it.





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