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Why Anti-Masonic Theories Are Bunk!!

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posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:04 AM
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The worst readers are those who proceed like plundering soldiers: they pick up a few things they use, soil and confuse the rest, and blaspheme the whole.
--Friedrich Nietzsche, Mixed Opinions and Maxims

I am appalled, I am bound to say, by the unsolicited material that has been sent to me...prior to this debate. What beggars my imagination is the way in which anyone, for whatever sort of malicious or neurotic or malicious [sic] reason, who writes anything denouncing freemasonry is assumed by some to be telling the truth. They are not. We have seen it in public life and we have seen it here. The Church should be different.... I am ashamed when fellow Christians are so gullible and so uncharitable, and that is putting it charitably.

--Canon R. Lewis (not a Mason), speaking to
the General Synod of the Church of England.

Quoted in Christopher Haffner, Workman Unashamed
(Shepperton, England: Lewis Masonic, 1989), p.13


Here is a link to an online book about this subject:Anti-Masonic Garbage

I have noticed over the years the anti-Masonic tendencies of conspiracy boards. It's not only alarming but quite contrary to what is going on. I have read both the pros and the cons and the subject and I have to say that I see no real evidence to suggest that there is a Masonic conspiracy.




posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:06 AM
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Here are words from a very real anti-Mason himself that sums up the anti-Masonic bunk. He is very correct in his criticism.


Dr. Robert A. Morey, an anti-Masonic researcher, has a low opinion of the standards of research used by his fellow anti-Masons.

Anti-masonic writers have generally been as unreliable as Masonic apologists. In their zeal to attack Freemasonry, they have been willing to use fantasy, fraud, and deceit. They have even created bogus documents when needed. Their writings must not be taken at face value. (1)




posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:07 PM
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Well SpeakerOfTruth, you are living up to your name


Much anti-masonic rhetoric is founded on supposition, extrapolation and opinion. ATS by its very nature will attract those with unconventional viewpoints, and we have seen plenty of posts which are comprosed of exactly that.

However I think it fair to say that, over the years, freemasons have allowed these misconceptions to develop unfettered through a policy of silence, and it is only now that many masons are coming forward, encouraged by a more liberal attitude among Grand Lodges, and explaining more fully what the Craft is, and just as importantly what it isn't.

Concerns about freemasonry are unlikely to go away in the short term. However, as it becomes more and more clear that the real enemy lies elsewhere, serious CTs will probably drop it, leaving just the religious fundamental extremists and the Generally Disgruntled to rant about it (in much the same way as they rant about everything
)

[edit on 10/10/06 by Trinityman]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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FWIW, I don't see how something some guy at a synod of the CofE can be taken as an authoratative statement on all anti-masonic writtings and research.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
FWIW, I don't see how something some guy at a synod of the CofE can be taken as an authoratative statement on all anti-masonic writtings and research.


Well,I have read both the anti-Masonic and the writings of the Masons themselves, and I can tell you that the anti-Masonic writings are bunk. While there are things in the writings of Pike that is somewhat questionable, I think one has to consider the age that he was writing in.

If the anti-Masons are going to continue to disseminate what is, at least in my opinion, drivel, then they will have to rely on something other than the writings of Pike or the "testimonies" of alleged former members who were disbanded from the group.

[edit on 10-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
Well SpeakerOfTruth, you are living up to your name


Much anti-masonic rhetoric is founded on supposition, extrapolation and opinion. ATS by its very nature will attract those with unconventional viewpoints, and we have seen plenty of posts which are comprosed of exactly that.

However I think it fair to say that, over the years, freemasons have allowed these misconceptions to develop unfettered through a policy of silence, and it is only now that many masons are coming forward, encouraged by a more liberal attitude among Grand Lodges, and explaining more fully what the Craft is, and just as importantly what it isn't.

Concerns about freemasonry are unlikely to go away in the short term. However, as it becomes more and more clear that the real enemy lies elsewhere, serious CTs will probably drop it, leaving just the religious fundamental extremists and the Generally Disgruntled to rant about it (in much the same way as they rant about everything
)

[edit on 10/10/06 by Trinityman]


Thank you,sir. Actually, ATS is fairer to the Masons than many of the sites I have been to.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 02:07 PM
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Anti-Masons regularly parade the writings of Masonic authorities before their audiences and dissect their words, looking for a sentence here or a phrase there to be used in their cause. They seek someone like a church authority who speaks dogmatically on teachings and doctrine; whose every word must be accepted by the faithful.

Freemasonry has no such authorities.

The Masonic authorities used by anti-Masons have been historical authorities who speak with the expertise that comes from long study, but who do not--indeed, cannot--speak for all Masons. It is like the difference between the authoritative teachings of the Episcopal Church and an authoritative history of the Kennedy assasination.

Defense of Masonry

This is something that I see quite frequently. I can take any statement made by anyone and just about turn it into anything I want to. It is truly a matter of perspective when one begins to discuss the meaning of what someone, who has been dead for decades, wrote.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 04:42 PM
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There's got to be something to all these claims though. I agree 90/100 are probably bull# but this stuff keeps coming up time and time again that there has to be something more we're overlooking. Mason and non mason alike.

Just look at people who have been Masons in the past. British Royalty, Kings, leaders of state such as Napoleon, Henry Ford Churchill, Washington, Tony Blair, Clinton, the Bushes (Only if you ask a 20 year plus mason)

anyone else want to post more firms? I don't have alot of time to go into the who's who of masonry.

It just seems to me that most power famous people are masons. I'm sure alot of people in power today keep their mason status secret just because of all the rumours and what not that fly around.

And when it comes to the Bohemian Grove political getaway, Nixon, P. Bush, Sr. Bush and Jr, Reagen, Carter etc. Famous people meeting in fairly reclusive places. Bildeburg, etc

When you take into account that we never get to hear what actually goes on, what is actually said and who is actually in attendance you really have to wonder what our elected leaders are really doing and whether we can actually call them leaders and trust them.

Just a few points to ponder.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 04:50 PM
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Soundaddicted, true, there are Masons involved with groups who don't have our best interests in mind. There are also Christians,Muslims,Buddhists,Jews,et cetera involved with these groups. Are all Christians involved in some dark conspiracy because some Christians are involved with these groups? No.

I tell you the truth, I think that most of these people who go around hollering that there is a "Masonic conspiracy," are fundamentalists of one kind or another. They may be Christian or some other fundamentalist religion. Bottom line, they are trying to destroy Masonry because it does not coincide with his/her beliefs. If there is a conspiracy, it is most likely one against Masonry.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by soundaddicted
Just look at people who have been Masons in the past. British Royalty, Kings, leaders of state such as Napoleon, Henry Ford Churchill, Washington, Tony Blair, Clinton, the Bushes (Only if you ask a 20 year plus mason)

Tony Blair and the 'Bushes' are not freemasons. Freemasons are in a minority in the political and corporate world. They exert little or no influence, and there is no evidence WHATSOEVER to suggest that they do.


It just seems to me that most power famous people are masons. I'm sure alot of people in power today keep their mason status secret just because of all the rumours and what not that fly around.

I think you may find that the rather more obvious reason, i.e. that they are not members in the first place is more likely.


I don't have alot of time to go into the who's who of masonry.

That's OK - I have an up to date year book and can read it for myself.

If you have any further questions about freemasonry I'd be happy to help you out, if you're really interested.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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Trinity. I remember a time when it was suggested that Clinton was a Freemason and at that time everybody was violently opposed. Even Masons said that suggestion was wrong.

However low and behold eventually it got out that Clinton is a Mason. Between that and the Bildeburg meeting he attended in 1992 I figure thats how he was allowed to become president.

I'm not a mason but I have uncles who are. 20 years plus and I still turn down their offers to join. You ask any Mason who has been in the organization for at least 15-20 years and they'll tell you the Bushs are Masons. It's only been recently that it's nolonger disclosed. It used to be common knowledge during and before the Bush 1 admin.

On top of that Skull and Bones appears to be very closely related to Masonry. It's a fraternal brotherhood aswell. And I've seen quite a bit of Skull and Bones symbolism in Masonry before. The old iniation used to take place on a black cloth with a skull and bones. Now they dress you up as a heretic with a rope around the neck.

With all these internet accusations however I can only conclude that even Masonry a semi secret society has had to go further underground.

Is Tony Blair a Mason? I'm fairly certain that he is and is not disclosing it. All this stuff is supposed to be secret afterall. Alot of his key close supporters in government over the years have been known to be freemasons. It just seems rather odd that he wouldn't be when all his chums are.

Does anyone remember a situation in England with a Mr Lord Roberson? A confident of Tony Blair and high up figure in Nato.

Anyways. A child killer Thomas Hamilton went into a school killed some kids and himself. A newspaperfound out that Robertson used his masonic influence to help thomas to get a gun and set up a ped ring.

Too bad nothing has come from this though sense the blair government put a gag order over the press to protect Robertson and other members of his own government.

And not only that but even People under Robertson in Nato have been caught of corruption. Alot of strange stuff happens around this person.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by soundaddicted
Trinity. I remember a time when it was suggested that Clinton was a Freemason and at that time everybody was violently opposed. Even Masons said that suggestion was wrong.

However low and behold eventually it got out that Clinton is a Mason. Between that and the Bildeburg meeting he attended in 1992 I figure thats how he was allowed to become president.

Bill Clinton is not a freemason. He was a member of Demolay, a youth group affiliated with freemasonry but never joined the Craft.


I'm not a mason but I have uncles who are. 20 years plus and I still turn down their offers to join. You ask any Mason who has been in the organization for at least 15-20 years and they'll tell you the Bushs are Masons. It's only been recently that it's nolonger disclosed. It used to be common knowledge during and before the Bush 1 admin.

I refer you to my previous answer. I am a freemason and I'm tellng you they're not members. If you insist in continuing this lie, please at least have the courtesy to provide your sources.


On top of that Skull and Bones appears to be very closely related to Masonry. It's a fraternal brotherhood aswell. And I've seen quite a bit of Skull and Bones symbolism in Masonry before. The old iniation used to take place on a black cloth with a skull and bones. Now they dress you up as a heretic with a rope around the neck.

"Appears to be" and "Is" are not the same thing. Many organizations have copied aspects of masonry, but that doesn't make them masonic. Are you saying that people who copy Renoirs actually create a real Renoir? Are you saying that all fraternities are freemasonry?


With all these internet accusations however I can only conclude that even Masonry a semi secret society has had to go further underground.

If you base your research on gossip I'm afraid you're not going to get very far.


Is Tony Blair a Mason? I'm fairly certain that he is and is not disclosing it. All this stuff is supposed to be secret afterall. Alot of his key close supporters in government over the years have been known to be freemasons. It just seems rather odd that he wouldn't be when all his chums are.

On what basis do you believe TB is a mason. I am an English freemason and I can tell you with conviction that neither TB nor any of his key supporters are freemasons .


Does anyone remember a situation in England with a Mr Lord Roberson? A confident of Tony Blair and high up figure in Nato.

Anyways. A child killer Thomas Hamilton went into a school killed some kids and himself. A newspaperfound out that Robertson used his masonic influence to help thomas to get a gun and set up a ped ring.

I'm not aware of Lord Robertsons membership but Thomas Hamilton (the killer) was not a mason. The press did an appauling job of reporting the truth in this matter, and it has been repeatedly pointed out that there is another Thomas Hamilton who was (and still is I believe) a member of a masonic lodge in the area.


Too bad nothing has come from this though sense the blair government put a gag order over the press to protect Robertson and other members of his own government.

And not only that but even People under Robertson in Nato have been caught of corruption. Alot of strange stuff happens around this person.

I'm not saying there's no corruption in government. I'm just saying it's not masonic.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 10:04 AM
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Trinity, you know,one of the mistakes that anti-Masons make is that they name Masons that are part of these conspiratorial groups, but they don't bother to look and see how many Christians,Muslims and Jews are involved with these groups. Of course,we all know that "christians" could never be involved in a conspiracy,huh?



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 12:49 PM
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For example,did you know that many prominent "christians" are involved with the Trilateral Commission.

Here is a preliminary list


Rev. Sun Myung Moon, founder, leader & self-proclaimed 'Messiah' to the Unification Church & the world.

Tim LaHaye, evangelist & Christian author of best-selling series "Left Behind."
Beverly LaHaye, wife of Tim LaHaye, author and spokesperson for several Moon funded "Christian" orgs
Paul Crouch, Founder and Chairman of Trinity Broadcasting Network, one of the largest tele-evangelical corporations

Bill Bright, Founder and head of the international evangelical association, 'Campus Crusades for Christ'

Robert Schuller, Pastor and Tele-evangelist from the famous 'Crystal Cathedral' in Southern California.

Rev. Billy Graham, recognized world-wide as one of the most influential evangelical preachers; author and syndicated religious columnist

Pat Robertson, Television Evangelist, Founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network & 700 Club anchor; founder of Operation Blessing; one time presidential candidate


Rev. James Kennedy, founder & pastor of Coral Ridge Ministries, outspoken television evangelist


Rev. James Robison, TV evangelist; Life Outreach International Ministries; associated with many Moon organizations

Ralph Reed, former director of the Christian Coalition and member of the conservative think-tank "Heritage Foundation"


Gary Bauer, Conservative politician and Executive Director of the Christian Coalition; unsuccessful Presidential candidate.

Dr. James Dobson, Pediatrician, author and publisher, head of Focus On The Family, a Christ-centric organization and magazine

Phyllis Schlafly, Christian political activist who says a woman's place is in the home... even though she's not

Jay Sekulow, Christian political activist and attorney involved in family values issues from abortion to parents rights
Unholy Alliance

Now with exceptions to Rev.Sun Myung Moon, I am not sure that he can be classified "christian," all of these people are "devout" Christians. Now, am I supposed to deduct that because so many well known Christians are involved with this conspiratorial organization that Christians are conspiring against us? I mean, come on. It's ridiculous.


[edit on 18-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 18-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 01:20 PM
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Hmm Trinity. Sorry to say but Clinton's lodge advertises to the public that Clinton is a fellow Mason. Check out their website. Someone on here can help me out because I know that link has been posted on here sometime ago.

www.americanmason.com... Interesting little note there. Just a coincidence then I guess. I hope at least some people here don't believe in coincidences.

Trinity. Who are you to say that corruption in government isn't masonic? Masonry is supposed to be based on moral grounds however I'm probably not the only one here who feels it would be a very handy outlet for someone to engage in corruption. And other secret societies aswell.

So I guess that leaves us with murphey's law. If it can happen it will. And our media doesn't do anywhere near of a good job exposing it.


[edit on 18-10-2006 by soundaddicted]



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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Soundaddicted,you still are not responding to what I posted. Tell me.Am I supposed to deduct that Christians are involved in some kind of a conspiracy because there are Christians that are involved with shady organizations? Is that what I am supposed to deduct? That is what anti-Masons,including yourself thus far,are deducting about Masonry. It's rather preposterous.

[edit on 18-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by soundaddicted
Hmm Trinity. Sorry to say but Clinton's lodge advertises to the public that Clinton is a fellow Mason. Check out their website. Someone on here can help me out because I know that link has been posted on here sometime ago.


Bill Clinton is not a Mason, and there are no Masonic Lodges that claim him as a member. In his autobiography "My Life", Clinton wrote that his father had been a Mason, which prompted him to join DeMoly in his teens. However, he also goes on to say that he never became a Mason.

There have been 15 Presidents of the United States who have been Masons. The last President who was a Mason was Brother Gerald R. Ford.


www.americanmason.com... Interesting little note there. Just a coincidence then I guess. I hope at least some people here don't believe in coincidences.


It's not a coincidence, but it has nothing to do with being a Mason, either. Most President-elects request that they take the oath of office on the same Bible used by George Washington, which came from a Masonic Lodge. Washington was a very active and prominent Mason, and requested that a Masonic Bible be used for his inauguration. Succeeding Presidents have requested it, not because they were all Masons, but they wanted to use the same volume used by the Father of our nation.


Who are you to say that corruption in government isn't masonic?


Because corruption and Freemasonry are incompatible. P2 is a perfect example.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by soundaddicted
Hmm Trinity. Sorry to say but Clinton's lodge advertises to the public that Clinton is a fellow Mason. Check out their website. Someone on here can help me out because I know that link has been posted on here sometime ago.

Clinton isn't a freemason, ergo he can't have a lodge ergo I can't go to their website. If you find that link please do post it.


www.americanmason.com... Interesting little note there. Just a coincidence then I guess. I hope at least some people here don't believe in coincidences.

Coincidence is the wrong word. I suspect the Bible is being used because it was used by George Washington rather than because it is owned by a masonic lodge. Otherwise I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Would you think a museum would be up to no good if it leant a bible for the same purpose?


Trinity. Who are you to say that corruption in government isn't masonic?

I am an active freemason of 13 years standing and I know perfectly well what freemasonry is and isn't about. Who are you to slur my fraternity with such accusations?


Masonry is supposed to be based on moral grounds ...

Masonry is 'based on moral grounds'


... however I'm probably not the only one here who feels it would be a very handy outlet for someone to engage in corruption.

Is that how you conduct your research? Because somthing is 'possible' that means that it must be happening. Do you know how foolish that sounds. There could be a suicide bomber holed up in the house opposite. Quick, call the police. Shoot them, just in case.


You believe freemasonry is capable of co-ordinated and systematic corruption because you have no idea how the organization functions.


And other secret societies aswell.

You imply that freemasonry is a secret society. I contend that it is not. How are you defining Secret Society, as I would suggest an organization with websites, open days, published constitutions and publicized goals would hardly qualify as very secret.


So I guess that leaves us with murphey's law. If it can happen it will. And our media doesn't do anywhere near of a good job exposing it.

Our media is too busy trying to build straw men. Masonic corruption sells newspapers because the sheeple believe what they read. There is no incentive to get to the truth because there is no story in it.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Trinity, you know,one of the mistakes that anti-Masons make is that they name Masons that are part of these conspiratorial groups, but they don't bother to look and see how many Christians,Muslims and Jews are involved with these groups. Of course,we all know that "christians" could never be involved in a conspiracy,huh?

That's very true. Some people try to find the commonality in something, but just take selective facts without looking at the whole picture.

This is a good example of what I mean

Instead of focusing on masons doing stuff, how about some other societal sub-groups -

Men
Left handed people
Gingers
College-educated people
Bald men
etc etc

If we determine that a lot of congressmen are bald, does that somehow imply that a conspiracy is afoot? If so, what sort of conspiracy? It's never been adequately explained to me by anyone why a society which for the last 200 years has consistently been about brotherly love, relief and truth would want to get involved in the exact opposite.



posted on Oct, 20 2006 @ 11:04 AM
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Speakerof Truth-
You know there are conspiracy theories and there are fantasies. I've known many masons in my lifetime none of which were prone to any unusual behavior of strange perpetrations.

As a researcher and writer of combat aviation historical articles I have interviewed hundreds of ace pilots from the US, Britain, Germany and Russia. I have over 500 books and documents on WW 2 and aviation. I hear these groundless fantasies about Hitler's flying saucers powered by revelutionary out-of-this-world engines and it gets crazier from there.

The truth is that the Luftwaffe was looking at possible VTOL= vertical takeoff/landing planes and one disc-shaped one using a BMW 003 jet turbine and a ducted fan system was flown once before the conclusion of the war.

Now there's a whole BS industry based on advanced German aircraft designs!

There was no deluded crap about Nazi UFOs or conspiring Masons before......the internet! The web is the biggest bullcrap manufacturing device ever! It's no long the philosophy of "gimme an inch and I'll take a mile" it's "gimme a sub-atomic particle and I'll take 100 billion light years."





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