It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

warped logic of Alien UFO believers

page: 7
4
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 01:34 AM
link   
The beliefs and statements Shamanator states are perfectly valid if you look at it from a standpoint of a sceptic. The UFO experience and abduction accounts are inheirently bizzare in nature and in turn, make the one recounting the experience sound a little "weird"... if you may.

...for example.....A close friend of mine told me of an experience which occured to both he and his father on their way pick up his youngest brother at a cub-scouts meeting....(my friend was 14 yrs old at the time.)

On their way back home they saw 2 "saucers" floating around doing strange manoevers over a local lake which could be viewed from the road they were travelling on. Anywho.....one of these "saucers" came directly over their car, without making a sound, flashing lights and the whole thing...like everyone's heard a thousand times before. Both he and his father exited the car to look at the 'thing' floating above them roughly 50 feet over the car.

(this is where the weird part happens).......next thing he knew, he was about 100 yards away looking at this saucer floating over his dads car with both he and his father standing there looking up at this thing.....(WHAAA????)

He then began to walk towards the car and within 5-6 steps he was back beside the car looking up at this vessel....again, not knowing how he got back so quickly.

(......both he and his father still discuss what they saw that night to this day. He's currently a graphic artist and his father is a physics prof at a Canadian university...)

....personally, I think that when this type of experience is recounted to someone who's 'biased' as you say, toward NOT believing this type of thing, it becomes SO easy to discredit it as halucinations or false memory or simply a dream....because that's EXACTLY what it sounds like......

...it seems "they're" screwing with our minds.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edited censor circumvention


[edit on 16/1/07 by masqua]




posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 04:22 PM
link   
Here's another argument that nobody will
really win.
It may well be that aliens have come here to
do their clandestine experiments with cattle
and hybrid chidren.
It may well be that the grays and reptoids hide
away in caverns in Southern-Western United
States.
It may well be that aliens eat humans.
It well be that certain Governments are in
cahoots with aliens and are giving permission
for experiments, while obtaining alien technology.

It could be that there is a Galactic Council that
monitors our planet.
Aliens may have visited us in the past and helped
certain races to build buildings that we today marvel at.

It could be that aliens talk to certain people who visit this
site and relate information for them to share or not share.

All we know, is that one, all or none of these ideas are true.
They contradict and balance each theory out.

My two cents worth is I don't believe cutting english words
up proves anything.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 05:04 PM
link   
I'm a little late, but I felt I should make a contribution to the discussion as well.

*Deep breath* If someone would gather the greatest minds on earth, say the 100.000 greatest minds, all whom have not had any kind of UFO related experience, and somehow absorb all their information you'd be the most knowledgeable human on earth, no?

That human could not disprove one thing about UFOs. Even if he made the most brilliant equation known to man, taking to mind every single little detail that those 100.000 great minds know, there would still be an X factor.

We humans Don't know everything, and if science itself isn't a proof of that, then what is? Every debunker in the world bases their belief on the Improbability of it all, those debunkers forget two things.

1. There are infinite probabilities and no one knows which ones are more probable.

2. An assumption is nothing more than a mathematical estimation done 'on the fly' by the user. We humans are not perfect, and even with the perfect human (the 100.000 scientist guy) there are not safe bets.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 05:38 PM
link   
Yep I agree, it's a probability bet.
But I went outside (it's late night here)
and looked up at the sky, it was clouded
and raining, I saw no strange craft or any
lights that I didn't recognise... so do Ufo's
exist?
See, it can be argued that way. I could have
said it may be that a mothership was hovering
just above the clouds and I couldn't see it, but
I'm just guessing and maybe even IMAGINING
that something important is happening and that
I'm involved.

I need proof... real adult proof, not an argument
whether nothing is really solid and therefore no proof
can be shown.
Not some stranger on the internet saying he/she knows
it's true and doesn't feel that they need show proof.

There are people on this website, a site for people who
wish to debate and ponder, who say they've flown in
outerspace and visited other planets!
People who say they're on first-name terms with aliens!
Proof? the cliche is always the same,
huh... you're just a skeptic, forget it.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 06:12 PM
link   
Within.... well, I won't lie, weeks of my last UFO encounter, a pretty close one at that, I had one state of mind. Either this was in my head, or it was something extraordinary. No other explanation would fit, not within a mile.... 10 miles.

The thing is, contrary to the whole 'proving god exists' deal with religion, is that there actually Is proof. For some reason though, humanity has dismissed photographic evidence as Real evidence. I guess I can get away with murder now that that's true. All I have to do is wear gloves and smile for the camera, showing me stabbing the victim over and over again and I'm scott free.

As for probability, what's more likely? An all knowing omnipotent god or extra terrestial life, probably several thousand years ahead of both technologically but also genetically. I'm not saying they're connected, quite the contrary, I'm just saying, if you want to apply your debunker thoughts to One subject all together, apply it to religion.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 10:20 PM
link   
I agree with you completely shamanator. I think most of these "alien agenda" types are victims of the recent emergence of the green-screen culture. What they see on TV is what they apply to their life, probably because:

a)It makes their life more interesting.
b)They can't be bothered to read about history so substitute their own.

Everything they see and hear has to be part of this wide ranging conspiracy otherwise they won't talk to your. They will happily discuss that there is a conspiracy but never why there is a conspiracy. They have alot in common with the Marxists, in the Marxists case everything had to be explainable by notions of "class warfare", if you had another theory it was quite simple - no discussion. Their removal of science from their arguments is what allows them to make massive illogical leaps, for example:

An unidentified object is seen near an airport, therefore it is an alien craft.

An unidentified object is seen near an airport, therefore it is a plane.

I think we all know which makes more sense.

These conpiracists will happily explain science and how it is flawed but appear to have no substitute for it other than fantasy and Hollywood-fuelled speculation.



[edit on 16-1-2007 by superpaul55]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:12 AM
link   
superpaul> Wow, you just... just went ahead and totally and completely ignored me there. Contradict me!!



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 06:20 PM
link   
Superpaul wrote


I agree with you completely shamanator. I think most of these "alien agenda" types are victims of the recent emergence of the green-screen culture. What they see on TV is what they apply to their life, probably because:

a)It makes their life more interesting.
b)They can't be bothered to read about history so substitute their own.


Plenty of people on this thread have posted valid arguments in regards to UFO's and what they might be.

Your theory regarding TV and it's effect on people's beliefs is way off the mark and does not apply to everyone. Painting everyone with the same brush who has an interest in UFO's is totally unfair. A lot of good research has been done in the field of UFOLOGY and there's plenty of people from all walks of life who have encountered things science has currently no explanation for. Some of them are very credible such as astronauts, fighter pilots, Police etc. It's important to keep an open mind. Just dont be so open minded that your brain falls out.


You sceptics need to take certain things into consideration. Ok there's no definitive proof what these UFO's might be and that we are being visited by Aliens. But if we were, we probably couldn't prove it anyway unless they decided to show themselves.

Any Aliens visiting this planet probably have technology which is anywhere from 1000 to 1 million years ahead of our own. They can probably travel in time, manipulate matter, make themselves completely invisible. They can paralyse anyone they come into contact with and even erase your memory. Please all you sceptics enlighten me. How does science or any individual go about proving there existence when they are so much more technologically advanced than we are and calling the shots ?



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 08:04 PM
link   
Hey Shamanator. Nice reading your stuff, you seem strongly opinionated toward the negative, and really who can blame that since proof is what everyone needs more of.

Having said that, I believe something's going on that is hidden in front of the human race's -- face.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 06:52 AM
link   
It's been a while since I looked at this thread probably a year or more I missed a lot of replys.

It's nice to see some people actually agree with me.

I think this thread needed bring back into attention given the amount of hoaxes lately with any luck it'll help people spot the common flaws which repeat often.



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 07:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by Shamanator
I have been observing a lot of the arguments used by the usual UFO fan boys on the boards here and have noticed the following arguments used in every case.

1: Trying to prove a Alien UFOs by a process of elimination using the same faulty reasoning I could
claim all UFOs must be Dragons.

2: Believing that a lot of unconvincing cases are as good evidence as 1 airtight case. They are not.

3: Trying to make unbelievers disprove visiting Aliens don't exist. There is no way to prove anything
doesn't exist if I was to claim Invisible Dragons exist no one can disprove me. The burden of
proof should be on whoever is making the far out claims.

4: Making Arguments that are impossible to prove in science and disregarding current science as
wrong to make them . For example wormholes, FTL travel and anything else they have seen in
the latest movie.

5: Extremely biased towards any Alien possibility and directing research only in that direction
ignoring any evidence to the contrary as if it doesn't even exist.

6: Believing that a Government full of constantly changing individuals could hide something
potentially dangerous for over 50 years. Could anyone on Earth keep a secret like that for even
5 years I seriously doubt it. Also it seems that they take everything reasonable explanation
offered as a cover up.

7: Connecting UFOs with psychics, channellers and other unscientific occult practises. If you want
UFOs taken seriously why make it even more wacky it doesn't help and I don't believe you.

8: Name calling and ridiculing seems common to anyone who had a different view I don't really
mind this but it isn't exactly proving their case to me.

I could probably keep going but those would be the main ones I have noticed yet they seem to be repeated constantly.

I keep using the religious analogy when it comes to the Alien UFO supporting crowd but it really seems that way to me they are preaching beliefs with no evidence and are clearly very emotionally attached to the Aliens are the only possibility mindset.

UFO is exactly what it claims to be Unidentified flying object I fail to see any connection to Alien spacecraft which is the first jump of logic to many of you. I think if I've learned anything it is to not take UFO reports very seriously when some people see every light in the sky as Aliens it makes all reports less convincing as a whole.

I am now more convinced than ever while there may be aliens in the universe somewhere they are not visiting here. If there was real solid evidence I would consider it but I think we all really know there isn't and never will be.




[edit on 10-10-2006 by masqua]

Mod Edit: CAP title

[edit on 10-10-2006 by kinglizard]


BAD post..sorry...full of mistakes..

heres 2

1...dragons are not metalic disk shaped objects
6...some people are coming out and saying things..telling the world what they have seen...didnt you know?.....the debunkers just call these people either money grabbers or loonies..



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 09:36 AM
link   
You call UFO believers warped in your title. Then you call them "fan boys". (Which I have only ever seen used in a negative context.) Then you, well, I'm not sure what to make your version of scientific theory. I was taught that the process of elimination was kinda important... Then, in number seven, you call the entire field, which is, in essence, nothing more than the people that are involved in it, "wacky". Then, in number eight, you say, "Name calling and ridiculing seems common to anyone who had a different view I don't really mind this but it isn't exactly proving their case to me."


Curious...


As for this:

6: Believing that a Government full of constantly changing individuals could hide something
potentially dangerous for over 50 years. Could anyone on Earth keep a secret like that for even
5 years I seriously doubt it. Also it seems that they take everything reasonable explanation
offered as a cover up.


My dad went to Vietnam in early '65 with the SEALs that didn't exist. He never would talk about what happened while he was there. He was sworn to secrecy. But, what ever he saw was traumatic enough to change him forever and make him have nightmares every night until he died last year. And you don't think people can keep a secret?



"I am now more convinced than ever while there may be aliens in the universe somewhere they are not visiting here. If there was real solid evidence I would consider it but I think we all really know there isn't..."


So, you believe in aliens but not that they have been here. Why is that? Why do you believe so vehemently that they have not been here? Because our juvenile race doesn't possess the ability to traverse those distances? When I was a kid, we had three television stations on a really good day and we had never been to the moon. When my parents were kids, the fastest planes were prop driven. Now, I have 300+ channels on a flat screen plasma television. Occasionally, I get to watch NASA fly "planes" into space on one of the channels on that big ol' tv.


"...and never will be."

Did you use your psychic ability to determine this?

"7: Connecting UFOs with psychics, channellers and other unscientific occult practises. If you want
UFOs taken seriously why make it even more wacky it doesn't help and I don't believe you. "



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:43 AM
link   
My interest in the UFO phenomena lies in it's inherent fantasy grounding. It's all great sci-fi. That though is it.

There are no galactic missionaries guiding humanity, and the state of the world proves it. The desire for aliens, for otherworldly wisdom is the same thing for UFO buffs that brings Catholics to Church every Sunday. It even has a similar set up. We were created (aliens manipulate our evolution as God in the Bible/Koran take your pick created us), their are saviors (the ETs) a great force of evil blinding the world (the government is the devil), even a day of reckoning, (second coming/the day they reveal themselves). It's all the same. The Virgin Mary, impregnated in a flash of light! Spinning wheels of fire! You guys even have prophets, Streiber, various 'whistleblower's': preachers, Hopkins and now Robbie Williams (?), sacred sites to rivial Lourdes (Roswell) hell, even holy scriptures (anything by Hynek, sometimes ol'Whitley).
The 'Disclosure' event was just the UFO version of a evangelist TV show, where NOTHING was proven. Nothing. It's no different than the everyday religious person who wants something to believe in. This is not to say that certain 'people's' aren't experimenting with aerial projects, that microscopic life doesn't exist somewhere else. But it's gotten out of hand.

Alot of the faces of abductees seem genuine in their horror and fear. They say they saw something and they did. Just like when I'd hunt Grizzly bears as a kid. A game. No real bears, but they seemed pretty real to me in the game. The human mind is the great quasar, the ultimate mystery. It's my belief that some adults have the ability to project their innermost...their deepest thoughts, as an innocent can in play. Maybe it's a subconcious reaction to something external, a talent they can't turn off, a mental illness yet undiscovered...or...

Why do we stop in hypnosis at the aliens? How do we know that abuse isn't the cause of their pain and mental projections/fantasies? Maybe the grays and their procedures are in themselves a screen memory for something even worse? What if these people are continuing to suffer through this embracing of 'being chosen' being 'special'? That's why a lot of this stuff needs to be examined and put a stop to. When something so horrible happens to an innocent during their childhood, something so bad it MUST be forgotten for self survival reasons, it's not aliens. It's something far more tragic, possibly later embodied in flashbacks etc as cold hearted monsters who want to physically defile them. It really upsets me.

So though I like the sci-fi element of all of this, the fantastic, I can't help but feel a deep wariness of the abduction thing when taken seriously. And I HATE the fact that other's beliefs, be they Krishna, Allah, Jesus, or Celt/Norse dieties are mocked by people who believe aliens to be true. It's absolutely no different.

And yes, I've had the odd moment of 'weirdness' to, but pop culture is my life. Deeply ingrained So be it. I see it as it is.

If I'm ever proven wrong, I'll repent. Till then...



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 10:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by Shamanator
8: Name calling and ridiculing seems common to anyone who had a different view I don't really mind this but it isn't exactly proving their case to me.


I hope you're not implying that this is mainly believers doing this...



posted on Sep, 12 2008 @ 11:55 AM
link   
I was sent an interesting video:
Ufos & Ghosts hidef during the day strange

Photos of something in the air or on the ground.
Mostly from a zoom in and nothing definite or identifiable.

If one thinks an aircraft might be a UFO then you have the Alien influence.
Most Alien videos are much more identifiable than the craft.
Crop circles sound more like human tomfoolery so the UFO is definitely
a possibility in human hands.

People have seen UFOs and Aliens and photographed both.
You have to go a long way to come up with the Tesla craft
as the UFO from the conspiracy against electrical generation
set up by JP Morgan and GE against Tesla and the likes of
Dr Moray. I happen to think it did and snowballed into a covey
of selfish energy defenders using big lies and money to block
any energy progress.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 05:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by alienesque
heres 2

1...dragons are not metalic disk shaped objects
6...some people are coming out and saying things..telling the world what they have seen...didnt you know?.....the debunkers just call these people either money grabbers or loonies..


UFOs are not metallic shaped Disks either though they are unidentified if we knew they were disks we would call them Disks. I personally think most UFOs are fire balloons I have reason for this I've seen them fool people often.

Not a lot of people know Foo fighters in ww2 were fire balloons released by the French resistance to confuse the Nazis for example and really if you look up the French word for fire/fiery you will see how they got their name.

As for the debunkers I've already posted about Attention seekers and other motivation's for people to lie about this stuff unfortunately there numerous reasons why people make this stuff up.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by Shamanator]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by Shamanator
UFOs are not metallic shaped Disks either though they are unidentified if we knew they were disks we would call them Disks. I personally think most UFOs are fire balloons I have reason for this I've seen them fool people often.

There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of UFO's. There are very solid cases where unknown craft perform amazing maneuvers. These cases are backed up by photos, radar data and fighter pilot testemony. So the existence of these craft has long been established.

The question is whether these craft are terrestrial or not...



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:22 AM
link   

Originally posted by Fastwalker81
There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of UFO's. There are very solid cases where unknown craft perform amazing maneuvers. These cases are backed up by photos, radar data and fighter pilot testemony. So the existence of these craft has long been established.

The question is whether these craft are terrestrial or not...


Yes there are undoubtedly UFOs as in Unidentified Objects I see no reason to believe they are Alien in nature though honestly it's just a variety of things from birds, planes, weather anomalys, fire balloons, kites etc.

There no reason at all to believe these things are in anyway Alien though and absolutely no evidence for it. Some of them are probably ours the rest will be just misidentified common stuff or pranks.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by Shamanator

Originally posted by Fastwalker81
There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of UFO's. There are very solid cases where unknown craft perform amazing maneuvers. These cases are backed up by photos, radar data and fighter pilot testemony. So the existence of these craft has long been established.

The question is whether these craft are terrestrial or not...


Yes there are undoubtedly UFOs as in Unidentified Objects I see no reason to believe they are Alien in nature though honestly it's just a variety of things from birds, planes, weather anomalys, fire balloons, kites etc.

There no reason at all to believe these things are in anyway Alien though and absolutely no evidence for it. Some of them are probably ours the rest will be just misidentified common stuff or pranks.


so you REALLY believe we are alone in this vast universe?..

wow..!!!...
...forgive me..but that is on a par with flat earthers beliefs..



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by alienesque
so you REALLY believe we are alone in this vast universe?..

wow..!!!...
...forgive me..but that is on a par with flat earthers beliefs..


I believe there will be other life out there somewhere maybe not very Intelligent but the distances between stars and taking into account whole speed of light barrier I don't think two kinds of life from different planets will ever meet it's extremely unlikely.

So while I think some life in the universe is probably possible the chances of Earth ever being visited by it would be very very close to Zero.

I don't believe speed of light travel is possible and even at that velocity it would take us 4.3 years to get to the nearest star now the distances across galaxys would take millions of years at light speed that isnt even taking into account how anything could survive the trip.

No I'm quite confident Earth has never had Aliens on it.



new topics




 
4
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join