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warped logic of Alien UFO believers

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posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 09:57 PM
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Shamanator, I would like to address your points as a person who has probably average knowledge regarding the history of UFO activity.

1: Trying to prove a Alien UFOs by a process of elimination using the same faulty reasoning I could claim all UFOs must be Dragons.

Regardless of what you're trying to find, the process of elimination is simply the best way to find anything.

2: Believing that a lot of unconvincing cases are as good evidence as 1 airtight case. They are not.

If we were trying to convict someone of murder, then you would be right. But these are brainstorming discussions, with people taking what they've got and comparing to find answers. The only alternative is to say "Oh well, no airtight case, I give up."

3: Trying to make unbelievers disprove visiting Aliens don't exist. There is no way to prove anything doesn't exist if I was to claim Invisible Dragons exist no one can disprove me. The burden of proof should be on whoever is making the far out claims.

I tend to agree hereWhen the discussion becomes "Oh yeah, prove me wrong!" then it's pretty much over. But in all fairness, I really haven't seen much of that here on ATS.

4: Making Arguments that are impossible to prove in science and disregarding current science as wrong to make them . For example wormholes, FTL travel and anything else they have seen in the latest movie.

I agree here too. But the difference is that this topic deals with highly advanced technology from the getgo, so as long as there isn't direct evidence to the contrary, I don't see how it really hurts to at least keep something on the back burner in your mind, even if it's not plausible.

5: Extremely biased towards any Alien possibility and directing research only in that direction ignoring any evidence to the contrary as if it doesn't even exist.

As a newbie, even I have seen some government video and other interesting things that UFO disbelievers refuse to acknowledge.

6: Believing that a Government full of constantly changing individuals could hide something potentially dangerous for over 50 years. Could anyone on Earth keep a secret like that for even 5 years I seriously doubt it. Also it seems that they take everything reasonable explanation offered as a cover up.

You're right in a way. The amount of people involved is an important factor in any conspiracy. But there are several examples of currently existing technology that, while being developed, the techs working on it only saw a tiny piece of the picture and thought it was something else, with only a handful of others in the know.

As to taking explanations as a cover up... again, I don't know a lot about UFO phenomena, but I do know that if I saw a triangular formation of lights moving at incredible speeds in the sky, I wouldn't take seriously the suit who told me it was sunlight reflecting off a flock of birds, and in all honesty I'd think less of someone who did.

7: Connecting UFOs with psychics, channellers and other unscientific occult practises. If you want UFOs taken seriously why make it even more wacky it doesn't help and I don't believe you.

Unlikely? In my opinion, yes. But does it do you or anyone else physical harm to discuss it?

8: Name calling and ridiculing seems common to anyone who had a different view I don't really mind this but it isn't exactly proving their case to me.

I haven't experienced that here, and I even got into it with the John Lear crowd.

I have to ask, what is the point of your line of questioning? There's a wealth of information regarding the subject that, if you did a google search on, would only lead to more questions.

It seems like you've got some hostility regarding the subject; why is that? If it's because you don't find the possibility plausible..well, my own personal opinion of UFOs is they are various forms of government technology, peppered with many many hoaxes. Imo, UFOs are the perfect cover for a government experimenting with things. But that's just me, and it doesn't harm me to listen to others brainstorming as they compare experiences.




posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:02 PM
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To Shamanator,
ALL things are scientific and no thing is unscientific. It's time you think for yourself, dissect words and meanings and take a look around at what everyone is saying. Do some research on those astronauts that I tried to tell you about instead of just saying 'it never happened because I haven't heard their testimony'. I know you will come around with time, but take it slow.
Anyway, have a good day -nator.

Gosh, the Sumerians knew that the Earth orbited the sun
So, speaking of agendas... I 'd look into that as well and ask myself why and where this information was lost.

Shamanator, I would like you to prove to me that you exist, that I exist, and that anything exists at all =)

[edit on 10-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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All I have to say about this, is that it is extremely difficult to freely release UFO information. The suppression of the facts, stories, and human theories is rampant. On top of that, you have religions that are bogus (with huge exceptions... I can think of two religions). The fact is, the alien stance of those in power, is that Earth is destined to evolve and work out things on their own with no help from non-indigenous Earth beings. Put simply, this planet is off-limits. Now, i'm not going to act like this rule hasn't been followed... because if that were the case, then we wouldn't have the Illuminati, and we wouldn't have Scientology... and we definately would have absolutely no reports of UFO's all over the globe. Does the government know this? Sure. Does NASA know this? Sure. Do thousands of people know this? Yes. Do millions/billions of people know this as fact? No, and that needs to change.

Does the alien dilemma really matter in the grand scheme of things? No- because it becomes half a problem when you know what problem exists. It's kind of ironic to one day wake up and realize you've been living a hollywood fantasy your whole life and including the countless other lives you've had. The Matrix and Star Wars... ever wonder where the inspiration comes from and where the reaction these types of movies receive comes from?

If certain governments kill news reporters to stop exposing their own crimes and plans, imagine what goes on with exposing the biggest secret Earth has... it's a prison. Our spirits are sent here, and that's it. Spiritual and mental entrapment. You die, maybe you'll come back to Earth, maybe you'll go elsewhere. Your goal should be spiritual freedom.

You must know that the next 50 years or so are going to be very rocky. It is not a coincidence that the Mayan calendar ends in 2012- that calendar wasn't made by the Mayans. There is a war going on, and it's called "Who will put their stamp on Earth."

[edit on 10-10-2006 by jaguarmike]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality
ALL things are scientific and no thing is unscientific.

Including things unaccesible to observation and logical rules or rational understanding?


Gosh, the Sumerians knew that the Earth orbited the sun
So, speaking of agendas...

??
That'd be news to the sumerians.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 03:15 AM
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honestly its always the people that argue that you cant travel faster than light so it is impossible for anyone to reach us as its simply too far and too long of a journey that get me the most. open your minds a moment...

too long of a journey by who's standards?

ours?

hmm in our arrogance/ignorance we've come up with all sorts of 'laws' and 'standards' by which we measure the physical universe.

1 day=time it takes for the earth to spin once on its axis broken down into units of measure we can understand and set a standard for. in this case the atomic clock in recent years (that being relative of course)

1 year= amount of time it takes the earth to circle the sun once

75-85 years=average lifespan of a human depending on who you talk to and in what century you talk to

100 years=one century

1 light year=distance light will travel in teh time it takes the earth to circle the sun once.

4 light years= distance to alpha centari (subjective) which is figured to be our closest neighbor

so, by OUR measurements, should we be able to travel at the speed of light (which we also measure by our own units of time) it would take 4 years to reach AC.

but what of other stars? 100 light years away? we wouldnt be able to reach it in OUR lifetimes and return.

but, ask yourself this...if a species lived a very very long time by our standards...would 200 years be all that long? what if they lived a very very VERY long time? what if they couldnt travel at even light speed? would 2000 years seem like a long time?

if you can think about that objectivly, the need for FTL ability may no longer be an issue when considering life outside earth.

cuz kids....we just do NOT KNOW.

anyway, thats my pain med induced thought of the day. sleep well



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 06:03 AM
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Nice thread and argument. The whole point can be explained and illustrated by looking no further than the title of the topic we are discussing - UFO i.e. Unidentified Flying Object. If people claim they are alien ships they are not UFOs - you have identified them!

The proof element of the whole topic is this, if you have identified them in your own belief to be Alien, then how have you identified that decision? If it's just your opinion or what you want to believe then you have no value to add to the whole topic - just more fingure in the air OTT drama squealing. If however it is based on a scientific deduction, backed by theory and supported by evidence that can be repeated or proven when required - you have solved the whole topic.

The point is that has not happened, either on these threads or anywhere in the public domain. Everything on these Alien threads is simple opinion or personally deduced views given a set of circumstances.

As a community, the only thing we can say is that we have shown that strange things go on sometimes that we have no provable explanation for.

PS - I do believe in Aliens, I just dont believe most of the threads found on sites like these ;-)



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 08:42 AM
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Well, Damocles said pretty much everything I was going to say for my first ever post, and said it well

As far as witnesses go, some of them are hard to discredit. Airline pilots are a good example. Some of the reports I have looked into are just so incredible, that you just cannot dismiss them as Saturn, dragons, reflections, earth farts, or whatever. Top secret military aircraft? That logic at times does not hold water. Why in the world would the military fly a top secret aircraft by a commercial plane loaded with passengers at close range, traveleing at incredible speeds, and risk something going wrong and crashing into the comercial plane? Is that warped logic? Unless somebody explains to me with logic, what these pilots are seeing are resonable explanations, I am going to stand firm on the belief that what they are seeing are craft controlled by intellegent life not of this world.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by UniversalFunk
As far as witnesses go, some of them are hard to discredit. Airline pilots are a good example.


This is true, but the number of REAL reports by pilots and astronomers is very small. There's a lot of hoaxes and misstatements out there.


Some of the reports I have looked into are just so incredible, that you just cannot dismiss them as Saturn, dragons, reflections, earth farts, or whatever.

A lot of these "just so incredible" stories have turned out to be hoaxes. Trolls enjoy teasing the UFO-believing public (who often are so eager to believe evidence that they'll accept things that are pretty stupid. A certain hoax that rose in the last year and was thoroughly trashed by the ATS community is good proof of this.)


Why in the world would the military fly a top secret aircraft by a commercial plane loaded with passengers at close range, traveleing at incredible speeds, and risk something going wrong and crashing into the comercial plane? Is that warped logic? Unless somebody explains to me with logic, what these pilots are seeing are resonable explanations, I am going to stand firm on the belief that what they are seeing are craft controlled by intellegent life not of this world.


It was those stories that made me start doubting. I looked several up, and talked to UFO/MUFON researchers who had tracked them down, only to find that the stories were "someone said..." stories and at the end there was no evidence that anyone saw anything.

I certainly believe other civilizations exist... but I can't believe they're so fascinated with us that they devote their time to coming here and interacting with us. I think of it as being more similar to the US involvement with the country of Comoros (yes, it's a real one and one of the poorest and least developed nations on Earth) -- only a handfull of Americans know it's there and there's not much reason to visit it nor is it of military importance.

I think the rest of the universe regards us in the same light as the country of Comoros (or one of its tiny villages.) We can do what we like because we're too backwards and too unimportant to take a place in any galactic or galaxy-spanning organization.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 10:51 AM
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Indellkoffer and Quackmaster - I'm sure there is wide range of interest in the UFO/Phenomemon. It's great to read objective views from people who see and review cases and hold them on the merrits they present not by what people want them to be. I'm sure we have significant differences but views grounded in objective analysis is a great common ground.

I'm sure a fair amount of objective people hold out that there is some slim chance that something big may happen some time. But that does not come with the a pre requisite to adhere to a faith. For me holding out that some element of life, microbrial or otherwise exists outside the confinds of this planet is important.
If we find snails on Titan, I'd be ecstatic and jump through the roof. So in that way, I guess one could say I'm easy to please.


DCP

posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 11:21 AM
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after watching some of the videos it seems to me that all of the "experts" really don't agree with each other. Some of them said that EBEs hang out with humans. Others said we have not made contact with them yet. Others say that congress doesn't know others said they were briefing congress. Every video i watched the people seemed real and honest, but everyone's info cannot be correct. If their foundation is wrong then some of what they build on is wrong.

What people are doing this for money and who is doing this because it is true? if you want people to believe, get all the UFO "experts" together and get a strong real foundation to go build on.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 11:36 AM
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Damocles you illustrate a lot of my sentiment on the subject. All my life I've been hearing so-called experts expound their theories that prove, to themselves at least, that science is impossible, basically.
Simply because WE at this particular moment in time do no understand how something works then it must be impossible!

Each generation has climbed atop the dead bodies of the last claiming they now know it all! How pompous. 200 years ago if Einstein had sat down and explained how nuclear energy works no one would have understood him. Impossible, right? Simply because the only concept we have of space travel is using chemically fuelled rockets to achieve escape does not mean that is the only way to do it. Who says it will take 50 years to get to the nearest star traveling at sub-light speeds? We do because that's all we know. How do we know there is not a shortcut via wormholes or a doorway to a dimensional freeway?

Just because you can't see atoms doesn't mean they don't exist.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Cruizer

Just because you can't see atoms doesn't mean they don't exist.


Funny thing is we can "see" atoms if you have a scanning tunneling microscope (STM). . .


science.howstuffworks.com...


It works sort of like a stylus reading a phonograph record.

Now if we had an STM that could scan the heavens, and detect ET's. . .

Some people still wouldn't believe you.


But even if you could see atoms/ET's with the naked eye & display them for all to see. . .


www.theflatearthsociety.org...


Some people still wouldn't believe you.


Some people will never believe in ET's even if one landed right in front of them & offered a ride.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 06:18 PM
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This will be fun.


Originally posted by Shamanator
I have been observing a lot of the arguments used by the usual UFO fan boys on the boards here and have noticed the following arguments used in every case.

1: Trying to prove a Alien UFOs by a process of elimination using the same faulty reasoning I could claim all UFOs must be Dragons.


do you know what a dragon looks like?



2: Believing that a lot of unconvincing cases are as good evidence as 1 airtight case. They are not.


i hope those craft in space seen by shuttle crews, and recorded on tape are airtight, if not, hope no one inside depends upon an atmosphere.
(i gots jokes)


3: Trying to make unbelievers disprove visiting Aliens don't exist. There is no way to prove anything doesn't exist if I was to claim Invisible Dragons exist no one can disprove me. The burden of proof should be on whoever is making the far out claims.


Why would i try to make someone who does not believe not prove that visiting aliens do not exist?

the burden of proof should be on whoever is making the far out claims?
after you get through reviewing this thread, i am looking forward to comparing your credentials to past presidents, world leaders, united nations representatives, astronauts/cosmonauts worldwide, and the worlds top scientists, to include nobel prize winners. I'm looking very forward to seeing how your credentials match up against the ones who make these claims:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



4: Making Arguments that are impossible to prove in science and disregarding current science as wrong to make them . For example wormholes, FTL travel and anything else they have seen in the latest movie.


find me one science fact that was not first science fiction, please, i beg you. you think popular opinion dictates reality? or does popular opinion only dictate what reality you can comprehend?

as for wormholes, FLT travel, and the like .... I will hold Einstein and Steven Hawkings (and others of their caliber) thoughts on the subject matter with a higher reverence than yours, until such time you offer a more plausible explanation for the phenomenons they have proven exist.



5: Extremely biased towards any Alien possibility and directing research only in that direction ignoring any evidence to the contrary as if it doesn't even exist.


any "evidence" that absolutley disproves this planet has been visited in the past by "aliens" is worth ignoring. i would rather ignore that "evidence", than to ignore billions of people that have preceded us that both said otherwise, and had sufficient proof that they knew something they could only have known from being outside earth's atmosphere long before mankind took flight. ie, the DOGON TRIBE.


6: Believing that a Government full of constantly changing individuals could hide something potentially dangerous for over 50 years. Could anyone on Earth keep a secret like that for even 5 years I seriously doubt it. Also it seems that they take everything reasonable explanation offered as a cover up.


i'm not convinced it is something that is potentially dangerous. as for the "secret" being "held" for 50 years, or even 5 years, would you believe thousands of years?

furthermore, since we are talking about it to some degree, the secret has not been kept. far be it for me to disregard a presidents words during a press conference:


"I can assure you that ufos, given that they are real, are constructed by no power on earth"
-- President Harry Truman, 1950


so, you are right. it has not been kept a secret for over 50 years. it is just that you choose to disregard what was said over 50 years ago. Why? because you are obviously more informed than any president ever has been.
(i still gots jokes)


7: Connecting UFOs with psychics, channellers and other unscientific occult practises. If you want UFOs taken seriously why make it even more wacky it doesn't help and I don't believe you.


find me a neuro-scientist that can disprove sciences current understanding of the human mind:

a thought is a sharing of information via an electrical impulse between 2 brain cells (synapses).

doctors and scientists have measured the rate of electrical impulses in sections of the brain. Results?

in the conscious part of peoples minds (frontal lobes) brain cells are producing 2,000 sparks of electricity (thoughts) between brain cells per second.

in the subconscious part of peoples minds (the majority of the brain) brain cells are producing 400,000,000,000 electrical impulses between brain cells.

conclusion?
I've just been told:


7: Connecting UFOs with psychics, channellers and other unscientific occult practises. If you want UFOs taken seriously why make it even more wacky it doesn't help and I don't believe you.


By a person who is only aware of 0.000000002% of their own brain's thoughts.

considering all sensory input from all your senses first gets delivered to your subconscious part of the mind, then how aware of you of your own reality?
answer: probably less than 0.000000002%.

so, what should i care if you don't believe me or not? I put more faith in the 99.999999998 of your own brain you choose not to listen to than you do.


8: Name calling and ridiculing seems common to anyone who had a different view I don't really mind this but it isn't exactly proving their case to me.


i'm not trying to prove a case, i'm trying to get you to know yourself first. to know your motivations. to know your intentions. because, right now, you don't even know yourself. proof? answer me this question:

what is the opposite of love?


I could probably keep going but those would be the main ones I have noticed yet they seem to be repeated constantly.


then read something new.


I keep using the religious analogy when it comes to the Alien UFO supporting crowd but it really seems that way to me they are preaching beliefs with no evidence and are clearly very emotionally attached to the Aliens are the only possibility mindset.


yep.


I am now more convinced than ever while there may be aliens in the universe somewhere they are not visiting here. If there was real solid evidence I would consider it but I think we all really know there isn't and never will be.


but, you are not capable of seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, or touching the evidence. and even if you did see the evidence, or hear the evidence, or smell the evidence, or taste the evidence, or touch the evidence, you wouldn't even know it was evidence.


have a nice day.

Mod Edit - fixed link

[edit on 11-10-2006 by masqua]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
This will be fun.


Originally posted by Shamanator
I have been observing a lot of the arguments used by the usual UFO fan boys on the boards here and have noticed the following arguments used in every case.

1: Trying to prove a Alien UFOs by a process of elimination using the same faulty reasoning I could claim all UFOs must be Dragons.


do you know what a dragon looks like?


You have voted Esoteric Teacher for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Good point & way to go ET! I couldn't have said it better myself. . .

Hey Shamanator . . .You got any hard evidence of what these dragons looks like?

According to you, if you don't, then you're in the same predicament as the group you challenge in this thread!



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 07:38 PM
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Havent got a lot of time to respond to this at the minute I have had a quick skim through and if I can I'll attempt to address any reasonable points in the next few days (I have seen a few reasonable arguements nothing convincing).

Just had to post in realation to the the last couple of threads to clear up any confusion.


Originally posted by 2PacSade
Good point & way to go ET! I couldn't have said it better myself. . .

Hey Shamanator . . .You got any hard evidence of what these dragons looks like?

According to you, if you don't, then you're in the same predicament as the group you challenge in this thread!


Are you serious? seriously

The dragon is an example of warped logic it wouldn't have mattered what example I used
The point is I can claim UFOs to be anything at all not just an alien craft using the same logic.

For example again....... nothing man made flys like that it must be superman.
(dont ask me what superman looks like please)

If I did want to prove what Dragons looked like it wouldnt be to hard as theres probably more evidence for them than Aliens ever visiting earth.
(please note I do not believe in Dragons it was an example).

If you really think I am claiming all UFOs are really dragons please look up the word "example" in the dictionary.

And I know you want me to say the oppisite of love is hate but I've seen you doing it in another thread already so I wont and I dont think it is relevant either.







[edit on 11-10-2006 by Shamanator]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:13 PM
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For years here in Australia there was a leading physicist who said he was taken to the U.S by the military to reverse engineer a flying disk they had found. He painstakingly explains how they are built and what makes them fly. He was on TV a few times and I found his website a couple of months ago which has the most amazing diagrams of the propulsion systems and lots of information which was too advanced for my mind to understand. However I couldn't find the site again when I searched Google for hours. I only found it the first time because someone had linked to it on another site which deletes all its threads after a few days.

Anyway my point is that ufos are well understood and here in Australia many of us have watched this top physicist on TV over the years explaining that the U.S military have a disk and exactly how they work.

Of course there are different types out there too.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:25 PM
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posted by Indellkoffer
I think the rest of the universe regards us in the same light as the country of Comoros (or one of its tiny villages.) We can do what we like because we're too backwards and too unimportant to take a place in any galactic or galaxy-spanning organization.


thats not a bad point, yet, how much money is spent each year on reserching and taking trips to research gorillas, chimps, dolphins, insects, plants etc all around the world? at times we even bring "samples" and "specimins" back for study. we do this especially in the case with animals because, as the "higher intelligence" we feel morally absolved in doing tests that may be very heinous in some cases. we can disect monkeys and not feel its wrong because we're "smarter" than they are.

so....who's arrogant enough to think that some other culture couldnt do the same to us, feel like we're unintelligent by their measure, and not feel like theyve done anythign wrong even if we think their actions constitue a 'clear and present danger'.

im not sayin any of that happens im jsut saying that comparing other cultures and saying they would have no interest in us is applying our own measure of 'worthy' to other cultures and its still against what we do in 'worthwhile' research.

but thats just me, its entirly possible im a whackjob myself. who's to say?


@ probed, whats the guys name? anything turn up on him in other searches?

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Damocles]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanator
Havent got a lot of time to respond to this at the minute I have had a quick skim through and if I can I'll attempt to address any reasonable points in the next few days (I have seen a few reasonable arguements nothing convincing).

Just had to post in realation to the the last couple of threads to clear up any confusion.


Originally posted by 2PacSade
Good point & way to go ET! I couldn't have said it better myself. . .

Hey Shamanator . . .You got any hard evidence of what these dragons looks like?

According to you, if you don't, then you're in the same predicament as the group you challenge in this thread!


Are you serious? seriously

The dragon is an example of warped logic it wouldn't have mattered what example I used
The point is I can claim UFOs to be anything at all not just an alien craft using the same logic.

For example again....... nothing man made flys like that it must be superman.
(dont ask me what superman looks like please)

If I did want to prove what Dragons looked like it wouldnt be to hard as theres probably more evidence for them than Aliens ever visiting earth.
(please note I do not believe in Dragons it was an example).

If you really think I am claiming all UFOs are really dragons please look up the word "example" in the dictionary.

And I know you want me to say the oppisite of love is hate but I've seen you doing it in another thread already so I wont and I dont think it is relevant either.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Shamanator]


The point I am trying to desperately convey to you is just, GO AHEAD, prove they are dragons, or whatever else you desire. . .

Claim that they are what you say, and prove your point. ( You Can't! ) And that's what you're accusing this group of doing in your initial post. Unless aliens agree to take pictures with humans, ( like those in the lost Al Bundy photos ), there's no concrete evidence available, just as you would be short on also . . .


Originally posted by Shamanator
1: Trying to prove a Alien UFOs by a process of elimination using the same faulty reasoning I could claim all UFOs must be Dragons.


Go ahead. Prove their Rubik's cubes, or a cans of Spam!

Just follow the same guidelines with respect to the burden of proof you impose on everyone else in this thread or Sir or I am left with no other choice than to call you a hypocrite. . . I'm sorry.


[edit on 11-10-2006 by 2PacSade]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:54 PM
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actually im left with another thought...


sham does have a point that process of elimination cannot PROVE anything. IE ok you have a sighting, you can rule out weather ballons, aircraft, swamp gas, venus, dragons etc...does that mean waht you are left with is an alien ship?

of course not, but, it does bring it into the realm of possibility.

when u eliminate the probable and possible all you are left with is the extraordinary.

but, once the process is complete and yer left with an event that falls into the "hellifiknow" category, how many people are prepared to make the next leap and consider the extraordinary? once the easy ones are ruled out, can u then easily discount the hard ones?



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by Damocles
actually im left with another thought...


sham does have a point that process of elimination cannot PROVE anything. IE ok you have a sighting, you can rule out weather ballons, aircraft, swamp gas, venus, dragons etc...does that mean waht you are left with is an alien ship?

of course not, but, it does bring it into the realm of possibility.

when u eliminate the probable and possible all you are left with is the extraordinary.

but, once the process is complete and yer left with an event that falls into the "hellifiknow" category, how many people are prepared to make the next leap and consider the extraordinary? once the easy ones are ruled out, can u then easily discount the hard ones?


This is a good argument. . . Unless he can back it up with the same proof. If he can't, then again, he's debunking his own thread IMHO. . .



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