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All Wars and Violence are Un-Christian

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posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 06:26 PM
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Teachings of Jesus Christ, the Son of God:

"Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father." Matthew 5:44-45

"When someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well." Matthew 5:39

These statements eliminate any justifiability of any war or violence, even out of self-defense.

Only TRUE Christianity spread through the world can eliminate the horrific problems of war and violence.

Love one another and may peace exist between all individuals, groups, and nations.




posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
All Wars and Violence are Un-Christian


or ungodly for that matter.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by GreatTech
All Wars and Violence are Un-Christian


or ungodly for that matter.


Esoteric Teacher, I cannot agree with you more.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
Teachings of Jesus Christ, the Son of God:

"Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father." Matthew 5:44-45

"When someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well." Matthew 5:39

These statements eliminate any justifiability of any war or violence, even out of self-defense.

Only TRUE Christianity spread through the world can eliminate the horrific problems of war and violence.

Love one another and may peace exist between all individuals, groups, and nations.



Obviously you're ignorant to the majority of Scripture.

What does God command of the Israelites as they deal with the Philistines? To love them and hug them or to wipe them out?

Now you hold to Jesus being God Incarnate correct? So if Jesus is God in the NT He is then also God the Son in the OT also, correct?

So the same God that tells the Israelites to kill all their enemies is also the same God that tells us to love our nieghbor. The difference is all about the "context". The OT was, in a nutshell, an earthly covenant. It dealt with people, land, law and earthly judgments. The NT is a more spiritual focused covenant which deals with repentance and heavenly judgments. The God of both covenants yet is still the same, He did not abolish the Law but came to fulfill it.

Jesus Himself used "self-defense" on many occassions.

The first being when Jesus was an infant. An angel warned Joseph to flee for Herod sought to kill the child. Joseph defended his family by fleeing. This, being self-preservation, is a form of self-defense.

Many times the Pharisees sought to arrest or stone Jesus but Jesus would not allow them. He would escape from them for it was not yet His time. He was in effect defending Himself. Not all self-defense is through bodily harm, guns and clubs.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 09:55 PM
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UnrealZA, which is more powerful Heavenly Judgments, or earthly judgments? Since the Old Testament is the majority of the Holy Bible in word count, you might side with the Old Testament and earthly judgments as the authority, if you had to pick netween the Old and New Testaments. I personally side with the Heavenly Judgments as I believe in Eternal Life and the Highest Order of Heaven.

You misinterpret the meaning of self-defense and self-protection. Self-defense is to "protect oneself in a violent manner from violence exacted upon oneself." Self-protection is to "protect oneself in a peaceful manner from violence being exacted upon oneself." Jesus Christ until the Passion as the sacrificial lamb chose the latter.

Maybe you should join the military???



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
UnrealZA, which is more powerful Heavenly Judgments, or earthly judgments? Since the Old Testament is the majority of the Holy Bible in word count, you might side with the Old Testament and earthly judgments as the authority, if you had to pick netween the Old and New Testaments. I personally side with the Heavenly Judgments as I believe in Eternal Life and the Highest Order of Heaven.

You misinterpret the meaning of self-defense and self-protection. Self-defense is to "protect oneself in a violent manner from violence exacted upon oneself." Self-protection is to "protect oneself in a peaceful manner from violence being exacted upon oneself." Jesus Christ until the Passion as the sacrificial lamb chose the latter.

Maybe you should join the military???


It has nothing to do with which is more powerful. I gave you, in a nutshell, the OT covenant and the NT (which we ar enow in) covenant. I, nor anyone for that matter, has to choose between them for both covenants compliment one another.

It has nothing to do with "word count". My point is that Jesus is God incarnate, hence He in the OT told the Israelites to kill their enemies. You ignore this though, why?

If you are able to save someone from harm do you do it or do you just say..."I'm a pacifist, just as Jesus was, I should not be expected to save another by harming another" ??

Lastly, if I seek to self-preserve how is that possible unless I also use self-defense?
Self-defense is not always about using deadly force. I defend myself and my beliefs in debate by using reason and logic. I can also defend myself in court and I can also defend myself by being alert to dangers. One leads to the other.

A man seeks to do me harm, my motivation is to "self-preserve" and in this particular incident I must defend myself against bodily harm. Is that wrong or ungodly?



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
Teachings of Jesus Christ, the Son of God:

"Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father." Matthew 5:44-45

"When someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well." Matthew 5:39

These statements eliminate any justifiability of any war or violence, even out of self-defense.

Only TRUE Christianity spread through the world can eliminate the horrific problems of war and violence.

Love one another and may peace exist between all individuals, groups, and nations.




So that explains why Jesus TELLS THEM to fight their enemies in the bible REPEATED TIMES. Sorry dude BS. The bible is only part real any way. Part Government orchestrated. Part real. Fine don't believe me but you will when you're dead. So I don't even care.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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UnrealZA, anybody who believes that God is telling he or she to kill or physically harm another individual is very delusional and has a very diseased mind.

Remember the commandment: "Do not kill." Exodus 20:13 Implied in the commandment is to never physically harm another individual as well.

As such, self-defense is never justifiable, but self-protection is always justifiable. Self-defense is to "protect oneself in a violent manner from violence exacted upon oneself." Self-protection is to "protect oneself in a peaceful manner from violence being exacted upon oneself."

Peace be with you and all.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
UnrealZA, anybody who believes that God is telling he or she to kill or physically harm another individual is very delusional and has a very diseased mind.

Remember the commandment: "Do not kill." Exodus 20:13 Implied in the commandment is to never physically harm another individual as well.

As such, self-defense is never justifiable, but self-protection is always justifiable. Self-defense is to "protect oneself in a violent manner from violence exacted upon oneself." Self-protection is to "protect oneself in a peaceful manner from violence being exacted upon oneself."

Peace be with you and all.


Again, you're ignorant in regards to Scripture. Do you not read Scripture..or do you just throw out passages such as this..perhaps you toss out the entire OT??

Ex 32:27
27 He said to them, "Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, "Every man of you put his sword upon his thigh, and go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp, and kill every man his brother, and every man his friend, and every man his neighbor.'"
NASU

Lev 20:16
16 "If there is a woman who approaches any animal to mate with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
NASU


Num 31:17
17 "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately.
NASU


So basically Greatech, by your very own words, you are calling God "delusional" and that He has a "diseased mind", would that be correct?

The commandment is "Thou shall not MURDER......MURDER!" The Hebrew makes a distinction between "murder" and "kill". Learn your Bible.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:05 PM
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UnrealZA, God said in Exodus 20:13 "do not kill", and this applies to any killing, especially murder. If God were only singling out murder, He would have said "do not murder". Instead, He said to abolish all killing.

Part of the Bible is God-inspired and part is man-inspired. God would never order the killing of His own creation. Why would He as the Ultimate Power and Perfection?

I pray that you read and understand the Bible with greater discernment.

Remember that God loves and creates, Satan hates and destroys!!!

GOD IS LOVE!!!



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:17 PM
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Evangelical Christianity uses the Old Testament primarily as a source for the prophecies. It was written in a different time under different circumstances.

The New Testament describes the teachings of the Way, the Truth, and the Light.

To paraphrase Jesus Christ; "Love God. Love all others. These two are the greatest commandments"

Its incredibly simple.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 10:58 PM
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MrPenny, it is incredibly simple. Love ALL until its time to pass on and meet in close proximity the Supreme Being, God.

Unlike what some Old Testament authors wrote, God never orders killings. Only Satan does. These authors frequently had delusional and diseased minds, attempting to give justification to the most evil and horrific act in history.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
UnrealZA, God said in Exodus 20:13 "do not kill", and this applies to any killing, especially murder. If God were only singling out murder, He would have said "do not murder". Instead, He said to abolish all killing.

Part of the Bible is God-inspired and part is man-inspired. God would never order the killing of His own creation. Why would He as the Ultimate Power and Perfection?

I pray that you read and understand the Bible with greater discernment.

Remember that God loves and creates, Satan hates and destroys!!!

GOD IS LOVE!!!

Ok in exodus 20:13 'do not kill' is stated, what about exodus 31:14-15 and 35:02 where if the sabbath is not observed the perpetrators " shall surely be put to death". And then as UnrealZA says in exodus 32 moses wipes out about 3000 of his followers AFTER being given the commandments. And god tells moses that he will help moses wipe out the inhabitants "of the land of milk and honey" which by the way he doesn't so gods a liar.



G



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 07:31 AM
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Even the ones done in his name?!



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
UnrealZA, God said in Exodus 20:13 "do not kill", and this applies to any killing, especially murder. If God were only singling out murder, He would have said "do not murder". Instead, He said to abolish all killing.

Part of the Bible is God-inspired and part is man-inspired. God would never order the killing of His own creation. Why would He as the Ultimate Power and Perfection?

I pray that you read and understand the Bible with greater discernment.

Remember that God loves and creates, Satan hates and destroys!!!

GOD IS LOVE!!!


It is true, I do not fully grasp or understand the Scriptures, nor shall I ever in my lifetime.

What I do know, grasp and understand is that you are in serious error regarding the Hebrew Scriptures and this matter.

First, Satan can do NOTHING unless God allows it. Satan must ask permission for all he does, in fact Satan must "report" to God as we see in Job.

Secondly, God is the Creator, Scripture call Him the "Potter" and we are the "clay" and He can do whatever He do desires or pleases with His creation. If you create a mud house you can do with it what ever please you.

Thirdly, the Hebrew language makes a CLEAR distinction between the words "murder" and "kill". In the Hebrew the commandment we are discussing reads......"Thou shall not murder" Look it up and do some research before embarrassing yourself.

Lastly, using your logic about the Bible being part God inspired and part man inspired, how do you know that the part about God being "all love" is not man inspired?? It would seem logical that men, with their evil hearts, would seek to make a God that is all forgiving, one without Judgment and wrath. Chew on that for a bit.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 02:35 PM
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I would personally point out that the Old testament, and the New testament to a lesser extent, have had plenty of time to be modified by people to suit their own ends. The approval of violence probably falls into this category.

How many wars fought in Gods name do you think God actually want to happen?



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 11:21 PM
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God is Peace. Satan is war. Part of the Bible is God-inspired, part is man-inspired. When you see a peaceful act, you see God's influence. When you see a violent act, you see Satan's influence.

Peace be with all!!!



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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GreatTech, Esoteric Teacher, is all violence unchristian? Christ violently turned over the tables of the money changers and used a switch to drive them out of the temple, does that mean that christ is ungoldy? Or that beating money changers and lenders isn't christian?

I think I prefer the former, so that I can erase my monetary debts.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 07:27 PM
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Nygdan, the Bible was part God-inspired, and part man-inspired depending on the Belief System that God has granted you. I believe that the part of Jesus striking other people is inaccurate (a scribe's error or translator's error).



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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Well Greatech....

You have succeeded in not only causing Christians to shake their head at your logic and reasoning skills but even atheists are rolling their eyes, congrats!

You have a presupposition that states...."Only things that agree with my presuppositions are God inspired. Any verse that contradicts my preconceived beliefs is obviously not God inspired but written by men"

Yet as I already stated, you have no way of proving this and using your moronic logic I can counter that by stating everything you believe to be true about God is false for those portions of Scripture are written by men for God would never say "I love all mankind". This though is obviously too much for you to grasp so I shall end my involvement with this topic here.



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