Is China Trying to Fool the West?

I draw your attention to an article in the Hankooki Times written by Tom Plate, Director of Asia Pacific Media Network. In this article he suggests that

China is acting in bad faith on the Korean nuclear issue. That’s the provocative suggestion now coming from some Western intelligence circles. It’s a scary, foul and ultimately upsetting thought. It may also be wrong.

www.asiamedia.ucla.edu...


The last time that North Korea tested a device it was suggested that China was using NK as a proxy to get the US to reveal the location of it's defence system.

As someone who has spent the last two years living and working in South Korea, let me tell you that the balance of power is rapidly changing in the region. China is actively promoting (through the education system) that Korea was once part of China. They have hegemonic designs on the region. Most South Koreans want the US Military out of the country. What are your thoughtsTHE FULL ARTICLE

[edit on 9-10-2006 by deessell]

[edit: quote tags changed to ex tags]
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[edit on 10/9/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

I seriously wouldn't doubt it. Every country (with power) has their own interests and dirty little secrets. We certainly aren't innocent to that type of behavior. But, as far as South Koreas wanting the U.S. military out, I don't live there and I've never been there so I don't know if that's true, but if it is, that'd be a mistake. I would hope that they would wake up and realize they can't win a war with China or North Korea and Japan sure as hell wouldn't protect them.

Maybe China doesn't want NK to have nuclear weapons because... well, who the hell would want a maniac to have nukes in your backyard?

Secondly, China doesn't want the situation to escalate any further SIMPLY because of one reason - any signs of harsh sanctions/military actions wuold mean an INFLUX of MILLIONS of NKorean refugees. China is NK's main/only source of food and oil simply because they do not want millions of them pouring into China.

I agree 100% and we all know Russian and China are cooking up something as we speak...

China is trying to fool us on many levels, I'm sure. But they better realize that if N Korea has Nukes, and it's jusitifiable as a defense mech against a huge superpower breathing down their neck (America), then how soon till Taiwan is loaded for bear (or Dragon) too?

China definitely doesn't need to fool anyone on the issue of NK's nuclear programme.
First,as K4rupt pointed out,China obviously doesn't want a nuclear neighbour.

Second,Japan probably will try to amend it peace constitution,re-arm itself even with nuclear weapons,and if north and south Korea reunite that would be a powerful nuclear country.Both of them want to be freed from US occupation.

The main loser could be US and China.

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
I agree 100% and we all know Russian and China are cooking up something as we speak...

You're not exactly Mr.Currentevents are you? Russia has been telling the US to lift the pressure off of NK because NK would instinctly do the exact opposite of what the US would be telling them (the guy is a maniac), and also because NK is not a nation who is gonna back down just because US is flashing it's muscles at it. You all dam well know that those guys don't care if a war happens. I've already told you this in your other thread and explained my thinking pretty well there. Seeing as this thread is new i'm wondering if you even read my post. Yes, Russia sells weapons to china. As DickBinBush pointed out, every country has their interests, and Russia does not want a maniac holding the detonation button. Oh and deessell, why does SK want US troops out? Is your opinion biased by any chance? Just curios cause that is the first time I ever heard that, so please explain my the issues if you can.

Regards

PS: K4rupt, your quote - "It's not the voting thats democracy, it's the counting." is not by Tom Stoppard, it was origionally said by Joseph Stalin if memory serves; "In democracy it's not the people that vote that count, but the people who count the votes". Ironicaly he was right, just look at Bush.

Originally posted by maestro46

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
I agree 100% and we all know Russian and China are cooking up something as we speak...

Oh and deessell, why does SK want US troops out? Is your opinion biased by any chance? Just curios cause that is the first time I ever heard that, so please explain my the issues if you can.

The main reason they want the US out is that they want to be an independant country. They have been invaded so many times. It is also the most homengous country I have ever lived in. Although you never see it on the news in the States or other places in the world, when you live there you see the protests outside US Bases all the time.

Very interesting. Can you fill my in a bit more on this though. Aren't the US bases there for peace keeping purposes? Is it just the way you feel, I mean about saying that SK is not an independant country or are it's decisions in any way influenced (if so then how much) by the US or does the US do what it want's there? Last but not least, don't you think that if the US withdraws its forces SK will be able to withstand a NK invasion? I myself know little to nothing about SK military, and I only assume they recieve and use US military tech and equipment (and some Russian I think) and also get training from US.

PS: K4rupt, your quote - "It's not the voting thats democracy, it's the counting." is not by Tom Stoppard, it was origionally said by Joseph Stalin if memory serves; "In democracy it's not the people that vote that count, but the people who count the votes". Ironicaly he was right, just look at Bush.

Ahh... Didn't know that, Grazzi molto.

Very interesting. Can you fill my in a bit more on this though. Aren't the US bases there for peace keeping purposes? Is it just the way you feel, I mean about saying that SK is not an independant country or are it's decisions in any way influenced (if so then how much) by the US or does the US do what it want's there? Last but not least, don't you think that if the US withdraws its forces SK will be able to withstand a NK invasion? I myself know little to nothing about SK military, and I only assume they recieve and use US military tech and equipment (and some Russian I think) and also get training from US.

US bases are there for many reasons - the main being to protect SK from a NK invasion. Others believe the US keeps bases in SK to deter a growing China.

Anyhow, the SK military DOES seem VERY capable of stopping a NK invasion, even though the North Korean army has almost double the amount of troops SK has. The only problem being is that NK can PLUMMET Seoul in a flash with their artillery.

I'm wondering, is there any way to prevent this? It's nearly impossible for the SK to take out every single one of the thousands of artillery pieces aimed at Seoul... the only thing preventing the capital of sure destruction would be... nothing?




[edit on 9-10-2006 by k4rupt]

We've debated this issue before. Although no links come to mind, one or two topics came up about China assaulting America in 2005, quickly shot down. At that time, China had neither the economy or the Military strength anywhere nears the US Army Reserve.


A country trying to spread out their boundaries is nothing new- either. Remember, up until World War I the British Empire held so much land that it was said- and it was true, as well- that "The sun never sets on the British Empire" In that they held so much land that the Sun was always shining on some part of their territory.


America followed, twice, only though, first when we purchased Alaska from the Russians and then second when we invaded Hawaii- if you could call it that- and forced Queen Liliuokalani from power.


It's all about expanding our borders; so in the likely event of something happening in the mainland, there would be an unharmed part of the empire or Republic, in this case with Alaska and Hawaii.


Trying to state that China is using North Korea to get America to reveal defense positions is as close enough to saying the same about Saudi Arabia or Iraq using Iran's nuclear program for the same objective.


Kim Jong Il is crazy- Crazy as hell, frankly, or maybe we think he's crazy. He could be sane as the next guy. Except the whole problem about it are weaker military countries wishing to have a bargaining chip, so naturally we say no.


We as a country that in general has a rather decent doctrine set and morale, would know how to appropriately use a Nuclear missile- And by appropriately, meaning responsibly, we did it to say that we could, as it could be called a "Nuclear Option", so that any of the countries with Nuclear Weaponry could never push another into using their own.


Countries like say, North Korea or Iran, with unstable governments with a very high amount of corruption, would be nothing but an impending Hell upon those who wished to defy them, as of now only nine countries have nuclear capabilities, now including North Korea. However, Iran has not; they are rather running a Nuclear Program.


China is in those numbers, as smart as China is, anyone with have a brain would realize that if they wanted a Shock affect to reach the US, to attempt to reveal their Defense System, they would have clearly waited long enough, with little to no threats about a Nuclear program, and then out of nowhere would have North Korea reveal their arms, to send America into a panic.


China is China. North Korea is North Korea. What is a country without influences? Remember America started as New England.

China against North Korea Nuclear Option

I just read some stuff, linked,

Stating that They would be defying China by making Nuclear Arms, who happens to be their number one supplier of Oil, and besides, it's usually not smart to piss of China.

Don't forget Aeroquake, China is not only their main supplier of oil, but food as well. Both of which come as AID.

Kim is really outdoing himself this time, pissing off the west and slapping the hand that feeds him.

How quickly we forget! Let's go back to President Wu's visit to Washington in April this year.......

The United States is equipping its forces for high tech expeditionary warfare, in part as a hedge against the uncertainties posed by China's military buildup, a Pentagon spokesman Thursday.

the article goes on to say..

The change in tone began last June when US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld warned at a international security conference in Singapore that China was spending much more on its military than officially acknowledged.

Global Defence Talk article

This one paragraph in an article I came across sums my opinion up:

Could this be the real clash of civilizations? For half a decade, the U.S. government has been preoccupied with Islamic fundamentalism. That threat is real. But even as the U.S. military continues to battle radicals in Iraq and Afghanistan, Washington and Beijing seem to be engaged in a quiet but comprehensive war of wills—over trade policy, human rights, globalization and other issues—that could greatly affect what sort of governance systems emerge in the developing world. While car bombings grab the headlines, it's at least arguable that long-term, mild-mannered Chinese leaders like Hu Jintao pose a greater challenge to America's vision for the wider world.

China's Challenge

You can mark my words, China will be America's next challenger. It will challenge the U.S both economically and militarily in years to come. The U.S is so enthralled in the "war on terrorism" that it cannot see the forest for the trees.

Is radical Islam a threat, yes, but not compared to that of China. Some will ask, "Well how can you say that when China hasn't attacked America?" Ummm, does that mean they won't? No, it doesn't. I guarantee you, China will be an influence on this "war on terrorism," which I believe to be just the beginning of WW3.

I would strongly suggest that the decision makers in this country open their eyes.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

I would strongly suggest that the decision makers in this country open their eyes.

Oh, I believe their eyes are wide open on this matter. Which is why they are busy trying to build or re-build ties in Asia.

On Friday, the Pentagon released a strategic blueprint indicating that China was a major focus for U.S. military planners. "Of the major and emerging powers, China has the greatest potential to compete militarily with the United States," the 92-page Quadrennial Defense Review stated.

Source

Obviously China DOES NOT want NK to have its nuke, cuz that might push japan and taiwan want to have their nukes too, and it is very bad for china.

and China does NOT want SK to be a part of itself, there is no such education in existance. But I no there are a lot of SK ppl living in some parts of china, ex. the city Qingdao, and a lot of SK singers and movie acters are aiming at the chinese market, cuz the market is bigger in china, this is similar in Taiwan as well.

But china do claim taiwan to be part of its territory

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
I agree 100% and we all know Russian and China are cooking up something as we speak...

they just don't want to become NK's enemies, since NK is so close to them geographically, they don't want to get nuked by NK,
so instead of threatening NK, they would rather calm NK down.

I suppose the US would do the same thing if canada has made nukes.

[edit on 10/9/2006 by warset]

Look here man, what makes you think Japan is gonna want to have nukes? lol, first of all they don't have an army (i'm not saying they don't have soldiers, you know well what i'm talking about), second they have the US protecting them. Personally I would not think Taiwan would even consider a nuclear weapons program for a while, they just would not be up to the pressure they would face (unlike NK), but that's just an opinion.

Now as for your comment right after that one, I'm gonna have to ask you to think carefully. Russia is just as worried about NK getting nukes as the US, China, or any other nation in the world. However, they aren't trying to calm them down not cause they're scared to death but because Russia knows the even though Kim is a crazy idiot he is aware of the fact that the only way to get US off of you is to join the nuke club. All that pressure from the US played no small part in preventing any negotiations. Russia warned about this. If you think though that Russia is "siding" with China you are very wrong. Just cause they sell weapons to China doesn't mean they're allies with them. This is merely in their economical interests. They do not relly on China for protection. Matter of fact, let me tell you, Russia is moer capable of defending themselves or possibly even doing better in this situation that the US is at the moment - US has nearly a forth of it's military in Iraq, Russia too has the same ammount of troops in chechnya but that number to their military is a much smaller fraction. They have the resources and tech for the job anyways. If you think that they are not capable of going to war in their financial or military state you are making the same mistake that all te other countries made while invading it, and they paid dearly.

Regards

Originally posted by k4rupt
Ahh... Didn't know that, Grazzi molto.

HUH?