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North Korea says nuclear test successful

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posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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I watched the BBC and was at ease, and thought of the many people that get caught up in the mess that is thrown at them from the media and governments.

Ease as the whole thing is a joke. What do I mean?
Think about it, they new North Korea was trying to develop nuclear capabilities, but did not stop them.
They even shouted that they wanted nuclear arms, and no one stopped them.
They teste a bomb, no one stoopped them.

Iraq...they said they did not have WMD, and they didnt, but the US invaded them and are still there today. As Ron said in Harry Potter, "They really need to straighten out their priorities."

Lest just say this, Korea is a small speck on the map, how did they get nukes?
China is communism and thus is part of the NWO government as is Russia and Im sure Korea to.
No doubt Communism and Capitialism (not in and of themselves) but those who took up those roles were the leaders of the NWO. (As the leaders of Britian and U.S. are part of the NWO)

Basically, its a joke in the since that there isnt the conflict as they would have us believe.
Again, no action was taken when North Korea screamed out what they planned to do.
Yet Iraq...said they were up to nothing, and ba-boom.
Of course, Im of the opinon if its a government its part of the international NWO community.

Anyway, all is well...if the soldiers would drop there weapons, on both sides...then no one would kill them. Who the leaders? To few, thats why they have the soldiers. They sit back and laugh perhaps as people kill each other.

The problem is not in the governments per say, you can only change one thing...yourself.
Change doesnt start with changing others and trying to get new governments...same crap comes back, but true power and change comes in reclaiming the power you have over yourself.
Perhaps thats why there is a government, until we learn our lesson.

Peace

Dalen




posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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Logic Departs Once More



Behindthescenes, you honestly seem to be more “Hiding from Reality”. Your initial argument, is fundamentally flawed:



No amount of "reasoning" is going to convince me that Kim Jong-il wouldn't relish turning Seoul into a heaping nuclear pile of ash at the first whim -- this is a man who is living a family legacy that has made Korean "reunification" on their terms -- i.e., under the Kim family rule -- it's primary policy objective.


Let’s remove these two objects and isolate them.



turning Seoul into a heaping nuclear pile of ash


So, you think he wants to destroy South Korea.



Korean "reunification" on their terms -- i.e., under the Kim family rule


So, now he wants to unite both South Korea and North Korea under his rule. Let’s use our brain here for a moment. If he is to use a Nuclear Weapons than it will mean North Korea is attacked by the United Nation’s and thus result in his removal from power. Due to this by your own argument he is less likely to use them otherwise, the main aim of his Government will never be met. Unless you can display Kim Jong II suffering some form of mental illness, by a leading health care professional he is sane.



Citing the U.S. as the only aggressive users of nuclear weapons is just symptomatic of American-bashing that has grown to plague-like proportions in the world.


Then display evidence of another Nation using them and I’ll retract my statement. Until then, it was used to provide evidence on the history of their use. I’m not Pro-American or Anti-American, a Nation is not a Government but the people in it. Shockingly, I do not hate several million people including family members of mine. It’s you that’s trying to make this about the American Government - but we can go down that route if you like?

Placing words in peoples mouths, can leave a bitter taste



You were doing well, up to this point. Maybe the initial one was a lapse of judgement on your half but this?

Firstly, to clarify things for those reading not once do I claim that the Chinese Government, Russian Government or the Pakistani Government are allied to the United State’s of America.

Secondly, I said they are “closer now to the West than they have ever been”. It’s good that he does not try to dispute this statement with any level of fact.



Pakistan, who is freakin' harboring Osama for their own self-interests, is an ally to us on the war on terror?


The War on Terror is not the only event on going at the moment in the World and in relation to the United State’s of America. However, Pakistan did help the United State’s with the invasion of Afghanistan. Furthermore, they have attacked several terrorist leaders.



Are you reading the same newspapers I read?


No I am not. Fortunately, I do not need to read the newspapers. My fathers side of the family are from Russia, I’ve been to Russia a lot and many of the Russian people are just as Westernised now as where I live in the United Kingdom.



Yes, all three of those counties have changed to become bastions of free speech, religious and political tolerance.


Not once do I say that. However, compare Russia 20 years ago to how it is now. Compare China 20 years to how it is now and so on and so fourth. To deny they’ve changed, is to bury ones head in the sand.

You then go on to make things even worse for yourself. Your post is nothing more than solid conjecture, the recent events in Russia have not been proven to be linked to Putin - however, you try to make out as though they are. Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi, is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s spiritual leader - he’s actually not accepted by the vast majority of Iranians who are rather liberal.

Maybe it’s about time you remove your head from the sand and stop reading tabloid nonsense?



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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I am just glad that given the North Korean general ineptitude and carelessness that the world didn't experience a nuclear disaster today. After the long range missle test fiasco earlier this year even if they were our friends I could not trust them with nuclear power. I am constantly surprised that their reactors don't experience a melt down.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Odium

Logic Departs Once More



Behindthescenes, you honestly seem to be more “Hiding from Reality”. Your initial argument, is fundamentally flawed:



No amount of "reasoning" is going to convince me that Kim Jong-il wouldn't relish turning Seoul into a heaping nuclear pile of ash at the first whim -- this is a man who is living a family legacy that has made Korean "reunification" on their terms -- i.e., under the Kim family rule -- it's primary policy objective.


Let’s remove these two objects and isolate them.



turning Seoul into a heaping nuclear pile of ash


So, you think he wants to destroy South Korea.



Korean "reunification" on their terms -- i.e., under the Kim family rule


So, now he wants to unite both South Korea and North Korea under his rule. Let’s use our brain here for a moment. If he is to use a Nuclear Weapons than it will mean North Korea is attacked by the United Nation’s and thus result in his removal from power. Due to this by your own argument he is less likely to use them otherwise, the main aim of his Government will never be met. Unless you can display Kim Jong II suffering some form of mental illness, by a leading health care professional he is sane.


Okay, admittedly, I was using hyperbole. Kim Jong-Il would want to keep Seoul intact for the most part so he could suck the economic engine dry to save his own dying economy.

My point, though, was that nuclear weapons in North Korea's hands gives an empire -- whose entire 40-plus-year foreign policy aim the eventual takeover of South Korea -- a dangerous new threat matrix by which to wield fear. And while I believe that leaders are rarely ever truly insane (Nero aside, most leaders wouldn't get to their status by being off their complete rocker), I do believe certain leaders have less of a moral qualm and an ichier trigger finger in general. The bomb in the hands of Kim Jong-Il is a dangerous thing, especially if he's ever backed into a corner and forced to capitulate.

Can you reasonably tell me that you're comfortable with NK having a nuclear arsenal, no matter how small or rudimentary?



Citing the U.S. as the only aggressive users of nuclear weapons is just symptomatic of American-bashing that has grown to plague-like proportions in the world.


Then display evidence of another Nation using them and I’ll retract my statement. Until then, it was used to provide evidence on the history of their use. I’m not Pro-American or Anti-American, a Nation is not a Government but the people in it. Shockingly, I do not hate several million people including family members of mine. It’s you that’s trying to make this about the American Government - but we can go down that route if you like?

Placing words in peoples mouths, can leave a bitter taste




Actually, you are just proving my argument: That pointing that out is tantamount to American bashing. Are we the only country to ever use nuclar weapons aggressively? Absolutely. No one argues that point.

But what you fail to demonstrate is context. We invented the bomb. We used it on a nation we were at war with, who in fact attacked our very homeland. The alternative: A ground invasion using marines and army soldiers to take Japan by force. We had already slugged through a bloody and violent island hopping campaign; to have to face an equally bloody invasion of Japan -- with an enemy soldier who was determined to fight us until his dying breath -- well frankly, few of us on ATS would be here today because our grandfathers and greatgrandfathers would have been killed then and there.

We used the best option available to us at the time to force an aggressive empire to a cease fire. And it worked.

But America also learned quickly the power of what was unleashed. And it's a testiment to our own cool heads and -- I feel -- western values that has prevented us since from willy-nilly using the bomb against other nations in which we fought.



You were doing well, up to this point. Maybe the initial one was a lapse of judgement on your half but this?

Firstly, to clarify things for those reading not once do I claim that the Chinese Government, Russian Government or the Pakistani Government are allied to the United State’s of America.

Secondly, I said they are “closer now to the West than they have ever been”. It’s good that he does not try to dispute this statement with any level of fact.



Pakistan, who is freakin' harboring Osama for their own self-interests, is an ally to us on the war on terror?


The War on Terror is not the only event on going at the moment in the World and in relation to the United State’s of America. However, Pakistan did help the United State’s with the invasion of Afghanistan. Furthermore, they have attacked several terrorist leaders.


Musharraf is riding a very thin razor at the moment. It is widely believed that OBN is being hidden in Pakistan by northern tribal leaders. But Musharraf is powerless to go in and stop them. And he's had to make a devil's deal with these fundamentalist tribal groups to -- in his mind -- halt the advancement of the Taliban from taking root in his country.

Of all the Asian countries, Pakistan is not our worst enemy. But I certainly don't expect Musharraf to go riding through Islamabad with Osama's head on a pike, celebrating a victory against terrorism anytime soon.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Odium


Are you reading the same newspapers I read?


No I am not. Fortunately, I do not need to read the newspapers. My fathers side of the family are from Russia, I’ve been to Russia a lot and many of the Russian people are just as Westernised now as where I live in the United Kingdom.

You really should read newspapers.



Yes, all three of those counties have changed to become bastions of free speech, religious and political tolerance.


Not once do I say that. However, compare Russia 20 years ago to how it is now. Compare China 20 years to how it is now and so on and so fourth. To deny they’ve changed, is to bury ones head in the sand.


That's funny. In other words, both countries are basking in conditional free speech. You're free to say what you want, as long as it's to glorify your current leader.

What happened to Mikhail Khodorkovsky? Perhaps the one true person who could give Putin a run for his political money. Recall what happened to him, all because he challenged the Putin adminstration? Free speech, huh?



You then go on to make things even worse for yourself. Your post is nothing more than solid conjecture, the recent events in Russia have not been proven to be linked to Putin - however, you try to make out as though they are. Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi, is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s spiritual leader - he’s actually not accepted by the vast majority of Iranians who are rather liberal.

Maybe it’s about time you remove your head from the sand and stop reading tabloid nonsense?


Conjecture, huh?
So, what story was Anna Politkovskaya working on? Something perhaps about Russian abuses of civilians in Chechnya?

If you're against conjecture or conspiracy theories, then, my friend, you're at the wrong web site. Do I have proof? Nope. Not a shred. And certainly Putin is banking that nobody will ever have proof about ordering a hit on a reporter. I mean, after all, that would be very un-westernized of him.

As for Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi, I don't know why you brought him into the fray. But yeah, he scares me too. And I certainly don't want his country to have a nuke as well.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by behindthescenes

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by behindthescenes
Say what you will about the tyranny of Saddam; there are leaders in this world a million times worse that unfortunately will go perpetually unchallenged because a larger nuclear power has its protective aura over it.


You mean like Mugabe in Zimbabwe.... or the government in Sudan....or the government of the DR Congo...

Oh wait...hang on...

Something missing there I think


Last I checked, none of those countries were actively pursuing a nuclear program. And if I recall, Sudan is being overtaken by Islamic fundamentalists, so if you're alluding to these countries being protected under a nuclear umbrella by America, you're pretty mistaken. If anything, the Sudanese gov't. now has the unabashed backing to Ahmadinejad....



Well you missed my point by a million miles.

What I'm saying is that those governments are FAR worse, and NOT protected by nuclear weapons and yet the noble and mighty west does absolutely bugger all about them



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 04:28 PM
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I don't like this at all I wonder what is going to happen if there are more tests?
what is the USA going to do or act.

[edit on 9-10-2006 by MarkLuitzen]



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 04:38 PM
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Well you missed my point by a million miles.

What I'm saying is that those governments are FAR worse, and NOT protected by nuclear weapons and yet the noble and mighty west does absolutely bugger all about them


Gotcha. True. But there's absolutely not national security interest in those countries that necessitates our intervention. At least from a personnel on the ground scenario.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 05:07 PM
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This might help Bush and the Republicans in next months elections...but just as easily it could be read as look at the sorry job they are doing.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 05:19 PM
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N.korea is the type of country that is tyranny in many forms which sees no point in helping its own people survive. Kim himself spends hundreds and thousands of dollars every year on expensive liqour just for himself. Money which could have been used to feed hundreds of starving children there.


Its really sad, and people are barely waking up and smelling the black coffee. Now we know this leader only wants war and only wants destruction towards those who have a good way of life, its american neighbors or chinese/japanese neighbors.


I have a strong feeling japan or china or south korea will invade before our coalition does.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 06:02 PM
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It's been a long time since I delved into nuclear physics so I might be seriously outdated now, but I'm not at all sure it is within North Koreas capability to intentionally design and detonate a 550 ton nuclear device. To intentionally get that small a yield is no small engineering feat.

Someone up to date on such things please tell me if it is possible for them to do such a thing. Three to five kilotons I can accept easily. If that truely was the yield of the explosion it would seem to me more likely the device did not function as intended and did not maintain critical mass long enough.

[edit on 9-10-2006 by Astronomer70]



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by j1mb0

Originally posted by g60kg
Im no political expert but why should Korea listen to the UN and not test nuclear weapons when countries like America can go to war against the UN's wishes (Afghanistan)?????

also why is one country allowed to have nuclear capabilities and another not?


I totally agree with you.
Bush should keep his nose out, and so should Blair.
Who the hell are they to say if one country can have nuclear weapons, and another can't.

The Bush administration are'nt the good guys, and to be honest IMHO N.Korea are probably saying to America and others "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough."

In other words: "Don't try and bully us like you have the other country's.


NO NO NO!!! This thinking is unlearned, childish and oh-so bleeding heart.

They CAN NOT have these weapons! The whole purpose of Nuclear weapons is they are FRIGHTENING and EFFECTIVE! If the U.S kept it's secrets in it's pants we wouldn't have this mess.

Mutually Assured Destruction: Most on this forum would recognize M.A.D- but obviously for you two gooses it rings no bells.

Go and join the commies you traitors.

The rest of us can take away their weapons.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 08:08 PM
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Korea's test of a 'small' and not a 'large' nuclear device is actually a good idea in their strategy. It remains controllable and manageable...little destruction with small leak radiation. The test was one that put the technology through its paces, making sure everyone knew how to operate it and how to detonate it.
This wasn't an attention grabbing scenario for the benefit of the world, if it was, the device would've been bigger, it was purely and simply for the benefit of the Koreans to see if they had got it all right...they have!
The Koreans told the world that they were going to test missiles...they did! They told the world they were about to test a nuclear device...they have! If there are no more tests, then we can assume the first one was very successful. They knew that an atomic test would be detected, so to make sure we all didn't panic, they told us what to expect. There was no way they were going to test a large device, and create radiated fallout over their own country, no, a small device sufficed to test the technology. What fissionable material they have now in the pantry is anyone's guess, but you can be sure they will use it to make WMDs pretty rapid. Whether we like it or not...Korea is now a nuclear-armed country, shifting the balance of power in that region towards their advantage.
They do not need to threaten America with a pre-emptive or reciprocal attack, they can simply attack their neighbours in the region, knowing full well that in such a scenario they would be annihilated...somehow, I don't think Kim gives a #! He's obviously not disturbed by America's military might...but how does America perceive the threat to its allys in that area? A devastated South-Korea must be avoided at all costs. Remember, America cannot simply bomb countries with atomic weapons when it will want to rebuild them afterwards...you can't re-build on a contaminated area. This is why nukes will never be used in the middle-east...think of the oil!
The main strategem for America's military is to support its business interests in other countries exploitable resources, if it nukes those countries, it damages itself economically, because it cannot use resources from a radiated area. The Koreans know this, as do the states in the middle-east, they know that America can only attack with conventional weaponry, which allows it to re-build the infrastructure it destroys...not so with nuclear weapons. Korea has caused a stalemate for the moment, it will be interesting to see how things progress?



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 08:25 PM
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Ummm...to the above post, you are missing the point completely. As far as nuclear weapons go, it is far more difficult to manufacture a device that gives off a small yield. That fact that the NK's were able to do so demonstrates the advanced state of the program. Yes it goes against logic, but the High yield nukes are actually the ones that are easiest to make. Its not like the North Koreans were holding back from detonating a large one...they actually bypassed it and showed they have miniturized the yield. All this is moot however if it is discovered the device malfunctioned but it doesn appear to have.

If you wanna be impressed, Israe (and Russia and the US) has nuclear neutron bombs the size of a baseball thatb when detonated destroys every living thing with a 1 mile radius but leaves infrastrcuture unharmed. N Korea is WAY off from that technology.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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I decided to join today, have been reading only for long time so know what's going on.
And respectfully ask to be invited in discussions, mainly right now, N.K.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 08:37 PM
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posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by elysiumfire
Korea's test of a 'small' and not a 'large' nuclear device is actually a good idea in their strategy. It remains controllable and manageable...little destruction with small leak radiation. The test was one that put the technology through its paces, making sure everyone knew how to operate it and how to detonate it.


Either they tested a small nuke or it wasn't a very successful test.

Source

A U.S. government official, who spoke on condition of anonymity also because of political sensitivity of the situation, said the seismic event could have been a nuclear explosion, but its small size was making it difficult for authorities to pin down.

In their initial assessments, analysts believe the test appeared to be ``more of a fizzle than a pop,'' the official said.


And from Reuters:

Nuclear analyst Andrew Davies, from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, said if the North Korean test yield was only a kiloton, Pyongyang may be disappointed.

"A kiloton is a very low yield and would tend to suggest, I would have thought, that the device was not all they hoped it would be," Davies told Reuters.

"If a nuclear, plutonium bomb fizzles, you can still get one or two kilotons quite easily. You still get a significant energy release. But an efficient device will give you more like 20 (kilotons)."


So, small nuke, or like their missle tests, a failed test. That is the question.

Let's hope they don't quite have it figured out yet and can be persuaded not to persue nuclear weapons.


[edit on 9/10/06 by Keyhole]



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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While NK is very agressive in trying to advance their capabilities, they are having a hard time doing so...at least publicly. Their long range missle blew up 30 seconds after take off, and now their nuke is a firecracker. Its almost laughable how bad they are doing except that A: theyb have the desire and B. a few tweaks here and there and they are golden.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 10:14 PM
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Found a list of sanctions that is being proposed against NK. They are pretty severe and are meant to isolate them.

New York Post

The draft, obtained by The Associated Press, incorporates proposals circulated by the U.S. earlier in the day to prohibit all trade in military and luxury goods and prevent "any abuses of the international financial system" that could contribute to the transfer or development of banned weapons.

It adds new calls from Japan to ban all countries from allowing any North Korean ships in their ports or any North Korean aircraft from taking off or landing in their territory and to impose travel restrictions on high-ranking North Korean officials. The Japanese proposals would also create a Security Council committee to monitor implementation of the sanctions, and ask the secretary-general "to actively engage in this matter."



The United States, France, Britain and Japan want the resolution under Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter, which deals with threats to international peace, breaches of the peace and acts of aggression. It allows the council to authorize measures ranging from breaking diplomatic ties and imposing economic and military sanctions to taking military action to restore peace.


These would be very tough sanctions that will lower the quality of life for the people in NK, and the only person they have to blame is their leader.

Of course, all these sanctions have only been proposed as of now and still have to be voted on.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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Actually, I'm not missing any point whatsoever...especially reading the bollocks you've wrote as a reply.
The point of my post was about the mastery of the technology (by the Koreans), and the redundancy of America's nuclear weaponry that it can't use over land it wishes to exploit later.

The 'neutron' bomb - a 'tactical' device - (or 'enhanced radiation device' ERD) is not as ubiquitous as you think, and was decommissioned out of deployment years ago. The actual advantage of this device is gained only from surprise usage, if one allows the enemy to use its own atomic weapons the neutron bomb becomes defunct and redundant, as the enemy reciprocates with a devastating and destructive nuclear rebuttal, destroying all that the use of ERDs would leave theoretically intact. If the neutron device is the only device used, it looks tactically impressive, but against the all-out wanton destruction of a conventional nuclear bomb it looks quite tame.
As for which countries actually have the device, is again something worth arguing about, as it is not known for definite which countries do have it in their arsenals.



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