North Korea says nuclear test successful, page 4
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reply posted on 9-10-2006 @ 10:27 AM by Odium

Crazy Kim Jong?

Since I posted this thread in the early hours of the morning, I’ve been paying attention to the news reports and many internet forums. One of the most worrying things I see is how people attempt to claim that people are going around saying Kim Jong II suffers from a mental illness. This is firstly not funny and secondly unfounded and has no place in a debate. Unless you yourself are a trained psychiatrist and have personal experience with the man all these claims do is derail a thread and give pointless conjecture to the debate.

If we’re meant to be here to Deny Ignorance, pushing forward a belief without opinion is not doing that.

Stability or Insanity?

When the report came out, their were several people who did not believe it. They thought that by North Korea testing Nuclear Weapons it would place the country in danger. This itself tends to be unfounded - the same views were present when North Korea tested Inter-continental Ballistic Missiles, when it started the Nuclear program, when it purchased material from Pakistan and other Nation’s. However, nothing has ever happened to them - the sanctions placed upon them by the United Nations does not harm the North Korean Government it only causes to punish the people. Furthermore, the North Korean Government has such control over the media process that they are never seen as the ones conducting a bad act.

The North Korean people do see a trend, where they are the ones in the wrong, where they are evil, where they are the enemy. However, North Korea has not engaged in a military conflict for longer than many of us have been alive. The Korean War, the Cold War and the fight between Communism and Capitalism are long over and the World is nothing like it used to be. Aggressive Nations are now the ones with the Nuclear Weapons and by having them, they gain a level of protection from invasion.

Threat to the West?

The fear mongering on this, is also the main area of concern. Nuclear Weapons have been used twice - both by the United State’s during times of war. China, Russia, Pakistan have not once used them on another nation even while at war. However, there is a common trend that links the three together. When they developed Nuclear Weapons they were viewed as the enemy they were the threat to our way of life. The odd thing is, Russia, Pakistan and China are closer now to the West than they have ever been. There was a time when like now, people called for war - people were calling for death and destruction and a Nuclear Apocalypse.

Why do people call for this? There’s now a historical precedent, which displays once a Nation removes any ability of external hostility towards them they begin to move more towards one another. The problem at the moment is that the West and several Nations are at a deadlock. We’re not trying to engage them in talks because we know out and out we can destroy them. When the balance of power is shifted things change. China changed, Russia changed, Pakistan changed and North Korea will also. The worst thing we could do would be to attack them and risk Nuclear attacks to the Middle East, Japan, South Korea and possibly Europe and the Americas.

Apocalypse Now?

There seems to be, more and more people calling for the End of the World. This to me, is more worrying than North Korea having nuclear weapons. The fact, there are people who are willing to risk a Nuclear War, to risk the lives of millions of people, to risk possible destruction of our complete way of life is the biggest threat at the moment. While people think they’re doing Gods work on Earth, work that results on death it is about time we begin to look at ourselves and not everyone else.

We all know who these people are. We all know that they preach nothing aside from hate and we all know they’re not just of one faith. It’s about time we clean out our own Nations before we begin to try and Police the world and that goes for European Nations, Asian Nations, American Nations and any in between.



reply posted on 9-10-2006 @ 11:15 AM by behindthescenes

Stability or Insanity?

When the report came out, their were several people who did not believe it. They thought that by North Korea testing Nuclear Weapons it would place the country in danger. This itself tends to be unfounded - the same views were present when North Korea tested Inter-continental Ballistic Missiles, when it started the Nuclear program, when it purchased material from Pakistan and other Nation’s. However, nothing has ever happened to them - the sanctions placed upon them by the United Nations does not harm the North Korean Government it only causes to punish the people. Furthermore, the North Korean Government has such control over the media process that they are never seen as the ones conducting a bad act.

The North Korean people do see a trend, where they are the ones in the wrong, where they are evil, where they are the enemy. However, North Korea has not engaged in a military conflict for longer than many of us have been alive. The Korean War, the Cold War and the fight between Communism and Capitalism are long over and the World is nothing like it used to be. Aggressive Nations are now the ones with the Nuclear Weapons and by having them, they gain a level of protection from invasion.


True. I won't argue with that logic. Nuke abilities by third world states does give them a false cloak of protection from outside influences, especially the West.


Threat to the West?

The fear mongering on this, is also the main area of concern. Nuclear Weapons have been used twice - both by the United State’s during times of war.


This is op/ed, but I'm tired of this drivel of reasoning: The statement that, well, the U.S. is the only country in the world to actually use nuclear weapons seems to be to be simultaneously saying, then it's justification for countries to acquire nuclear weapons, and no matter what type of nation has them -- including states like North Korea -- they will be inherently more responsible than the U.S. with the power and technology.

What a load of freakin' b.s. No amount of "reasoning" is going to convince me that Kim Jong-il wouldn't relish turning Seoul into a heaping nuclear pile of ash at the first whim -- this is a man who is living a family legacy that has made Korean "reunification" on their terms -- i.e., under the Kim family rule -- it's primary policy objective.

Citing the U.S. as the only aggressive users of nuclear weapons is just symptomatic of American-bashing that has grown to plague-like proportions in the world.


China, Russia, Pakistan have not once used them on another nation even while at war. However, there is a common trend that links the three together. When they developed Nuclear Weapons they were viewed as the enemy they were the threat to our way of life. The odd thing is, Russia, Pakistan and China are closer now to the West than they have ever been. There was a time when like now, people called for war - people were calling for death and destruction and a Nuclear Apocalypse.


Are you reading the same newspapers I read? Russia closer to us now more than ever? China our ally? Pakistan, who is freakin' harboring Osama for their own self-interests, is an ally to us on the war on terror?

These countries are playing the great diplomatic game of smiling wide before shoving the knife through the heart. They're no more allies with the U.S. than some of the Islamic clerics preaching in U.S. mosques are.


Why do people call for this? There’s now a historical precedent, which displays once a Nation removes any ability of external hostility towards them they begin to move more towards one another. The problem at the moment is that the West and several Nations are at a deadlock. We’re not trying to engage them in talks because we know out and out we can destroy them. When the balance of power is shifted things change. China changed, Russia changed, Pakistan changed and North Korea will also. The worst thing we could do would be to attack them and risk Nuclear attacks to the Middle East, Japan, South Korea and possibly Europe and the Americas.


Yes, all three of those counties have changed to become bastions of free speech, religious and political tolerance. You are absolutely right. How could I be so war-mongering and hell-bent on the apocalyptic destruction of the entire globe. In fact, we ought to be celebrating Kim Jong-il's grand achievement -- for world peace is now within our reach!


Apocalypse Now?

There seems to be, more and more people calling for the End of the World. This to me, is more worrying than North Korea having nuclear weapons. The fact, there are people who are willing to risk a Nuclear War, to risk the lives of millions of people, to risk possible destruction of our complete way of life is the biggest threat at the moment. While people think they’re doing Gods work on Earth, work that results on death it is about time we begin to look at ourselves and not everyone else.

We all know who these people are. We all know that they preach nothing aside from hate and we all know they’re not just of one faith. It’s about time we clean out our own Nations before we begin to try and Police the world and that goes for European Nations, Asian Nations, American Nations and any in between.


Finally, you have said something worthwhile. We do know who all these people are: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, who feels he is submitting to Allah's will by pursuing nuclear weapons so he can wipe Israel off the face of the earth; Vladimir Putin of Russia, who is liking himself lately to a new self-styled tsar, murdering
dissidentsleft and right; and now I suppose we can add Kim Jong-il to that list, a man who promotes with an iron rod a perverion of the Confuscious philosophy that giving one's life to the Fatherland, absolute devotion to the leader, is the highest principle in life one can have.



[edit on 9-10-2006 by behindthescenes]


reply posted on 9-10-2006 @ 11:54 AM by LazarusTheLong
I thought that Kim hated Bush...
So why did he just help him and all the other war party out during election time?

or maybe this is all a "wag the dog", and an october surprise has shown itself...

a new threat from N korea might work better than rushing things with Iran...

Regarding Dyepes comments...

North Korea is not a good place... it is repressive to its people, and is abusive towards its neighbors...

North Korea has made a business out of counterfeiting US dollars (and other nations currency)
North Korea accepts food aid for its hungry people from several of its neighbors... this is essentially blackmail paid for peace...

North Korea has a government kidnapping department, that makes a career of snatching S.Koreans, and Japanese people from their homes, and business's and taking them to N. Korea, and being forced to work there on government projects...
(usually scientists, or actresses, or other "brain trust" members)

Now to be fair,
Japan, and Korea have had a very bad history of abusing each other... and the Japanese have even made official apologies, and condemnations of how they treated the Koreans during war.

But that was then, and this is now, and if N. Korea wants to keep its national support (which is propping up its people with much needed food) it needs to bring something to the table...

It just isn't fair though, that N. Korea keep expecting other nations to support its basic needs, while it spends all its money and efforts on building a military machine.

and as far as having nuclear plants to provide electricity... well, we volunteered to deliver them... the deal fell through, due to lack of Korean effort.

and yes, N. Korea at night looks like a deserted land, due to the lack of electricity...
actual non doctored image of N korean night light

there is a little light in the capital (probably their showcase city, the only one tourists are allowed in)
I will also note* (BIG NOTE) that most images you see, will show N.Korea as totally dark, due to propaganda editing...

Which means, suspect everything that comes from our government regarding N. Korea... because we are already being played...


reply posted on 9-10-2006 @ 12:22 PM by kindred
N.Korea has nuclear weapons. Funny how everyone blantantly leaves out the most important question. Who was it who gave them the ability to build a nuke in the first place ? Well done Rummy... Great move....

The U.S. gave North Korea two light-water nuclear reactors in 1994.

The only people we should be concerned about are those criminals in the Whitehouse. They are the greatest threat to the security and well being of every human on Planet Earth.

money.cnn.com...

It's about time that you Americans and British stopped worrying about the state of the rest of the world and took a hard look at your own countries and corrupt Governments. There about to flush your constitution & democracies down the toilet. I would advise every one of you to take a good hard look at N.Korea because if Bush and Blair get there way you'll be living in a dictatorship something akin to N.Korea.

As for N.Korea having Nukes. Big Deal, welcome to the Nuclear club. N.Korea now has a nuclear deterrent. Hopefully this will be enough to persuade the nut in the whitehouse that a pre-emtive strike is out of the question. I personally believe this is not the case and this has been the agenda of Bush and co all along to instigate a world wide conflict. Time to put this nut in a padded cell where he belongs, along with the rest of the Bush and Blair administrations.

Well said Odium - spot on
www.abovetopsecret.com...

To believe any of the propaganda about N.Korea is more or less backing your own governments stance (UK & US) on the issue. Governments that are clearly and undeniably corrupt and immoral. I think the majority of the people need to wake up fast. How much longer does this phony charade, that is the war on Terror have to go on and at what cost. Are you really willing to sacrifice the whole of humanity?

It's time to do something about own your corrupt government before you concern yourself with others.........Peace!!!!!!!!



reply posted on 9-10-2006 @ 12:46 PM by j1mb0
Originally posted by behindthescenes
You want to know what North Korea is all about? We think Saddam had a repressive regime?

If there is a hell, then Kim Jong-il will be dancing at its deepest core one day.

Here's what happens in a political prisoner's camp:


Execution victims included those who pleaded for death during torture, stole food, or simply wept over the fate of two small children left home alone. The charge was lack of confidence in the mother party. Also included are those who are branded as ''anti-party elements'' or ''reactionaries.''

The public execution ground is so crammed with prisoners that the women in the front watch the killing from a distance of only a meter or so and often get blood splashed on them. Some women prisoners are so shocked that they vomit, faint, or develop mental illness (e.g., sudden singing or laughing hysterically). They are sent to punishment cells for being ''weak in ideology'' and ''showing sympathy to the people's enemy.'' Those who become completely insane simply disappear and nobody knows what happens to them.

Hi-suk Choi and Young-ok Choi, housewives from Kimchaek City, were punished for singing at the site and later died of shock during electric torture. The Kaechon Prison has twenty punishment cells that are always full of ''ideologically weak'' prisoners on the days of public executions.





Kinda makes you think of Guantanamo bay does'nt it?

And as to the comment made by the poster that says NK's media propogate that they are the good guys, I think other Nations do that too. (Fox news)?

We all live under some kind of propoganda by our governments. I just think it is wrong to condemn North Korea for what they are doing, considering we've all had a part to play in cold wars, wars for oil, killing civilians and the like.

Pointing fingers at others won't sort out the world's problems.
Getting our world leaders to fight it out 'contender' style might do more for peace though.

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