where planet are you from!!?? [...]how dare you say that if the people of this country speak out against the injustices and discrimination this
goverment endorses they deserve to be branded as racist, where in the uk are you from??
I am from a planet where people actually read and pay attention
to someone's comments before making non sequitor responses. I never said that
people who disagree with a policy that unfairly favours one race over another is a racist. If you want to have a conversation with people, you're
going to have to pay attention to what they are saying, not react to imaginary fantasy.
however if you speak to any of the locals here they will tell you many examples of poor intergration in the east-end of London. Now it is common
knowledge that the muslims that inhabit the east of London 'clump together' as it where, you can say what you want, i KNOW it to be the case.
It seems more like the locals are demanding too much. Immigrants don't have to
do anything other than obey the law, and most of them make
efforts to learn the language and basic culture. In turn, the native population is expected to learn and understand theirs
In the US, for example, hispanic culture has largely been integrated into 'american' culture, and as a result, hispanics are generally themselves
well integrated into america. Thats what assimilation is, its not rigid conformity for immigrants to the local culture, so that they are near clones
or indistinguishable from anyone else, its acceptance and tolerance between the two.
I mean i have heard muslims saying that England will become 'New Pakistan', i mean thats not exageration.
Why shouldn't they bring parts of their home culture with them? Miami in the US is like a 'new latin america', and its great because of
. Whats the problem with some parts of england being full of islamic culture?
is that i am physically not allowed to go to Saudi Arabia.
THe pakistanis are hardly responsible for the actions of saudi arabia, and saudi arabia is hardly a 'goal' for england to strive for.
Yet we work around them here, sorry im lost, when was this ok???
Its called basic human civility, its allways been ok. The saudis are intolerant bastards, that doesn't mean the britishers should be.
Originally posted by buckaroo
I dont know , doubt its a lot though otherwise you can damn well sure we'd have heard about it in the press
What makes you say that? It seems that the press is just as interested in portraying the muslims as a problem as anyone else.
where am I clamouring for Anti Muslim laws eh ? and if you are insuating that I am actively calling and or hoping for Anti Muslim Riots you are
sadly mistaken and Infact I take offence.
Ok, I apologizse. That is the intent of this thread, that there are going to be muslim riots and we need to take action against them.
because of the way that they are seeming to be placed on a pedestal when it comes to there views
I think that the big problem is that that is just a perception, they aren't placed on a pedastal. They permited to do what any other british citizen
is permited to do, disagree, vocally and strongly, with their government.
why cant people fly the English flag ?
this is England , why the police even have to tip off Top Muslim leaders in this country before making anti terror raids
Why not? IT makes sense for the police to try to work with muslim leaders to make sure everything goes smoothyl.
, and theese people do not have to sign the official secrets act
? Huh? Whats that?
, Muslims come accross as arrogant and aloof one law for them another for us as it were
Such as what laws?
Also we see almost on a weekly basis Muslims around the world Burning our flags , threataning to blow us up , rioting over cartoons for
goodness sake , we see So called Muslim leaders in this country being aloud to incite violence against us ,do you think theese are giving a good
Of course they're not. The people rioting in other countries are idiots. The muslim clerics that are calling for the violent destruction of britain
should be treated as a criminal, like anyone that does so. British law, however, lets people call for that, muslim or otherwise. I don't know what
the hell they are thinking going to england and then saying 'england sux, lets revolt', but, apparently, the british laws permit that. Its their
right. If the rest of britain is upset about them exercising their rights, then thats their problem.
, I woulld like to see more stories about ordinairy Muslim subjects renouncing AQ and the like , but they don't seem to be very forthcoming do
You just explained why you don't see those stories, because they're not interseting stories and they don't sell copies or increase ratings. I
constantly see muslim groups in the US at least denouncing these attacks, promoting cooperation with the jews, working for better relations, asserting
that, yes, they did indeed immigrat because they like the US, etc. But it doesn't sell copy and it doesn't cathc people's interest.
I didn't say I was going to do it , simply stating that whilst the police close off roads arounf Finsbury park so theese folk can do this
Why shouldn't the police cooperate with fully legal demonstrations??
I would be in the back of a police van and all over the front page of the guardian being called a racist within hours
What people have organized civil, legal protests speaking out for better relations between muslims and other britishers, and condeming the views of
people that want to destroy the west and england, and have been arrested???
As a final note on the police thing , you are saying that racism is right are you because thats what that case racism and that is wrong any way
you look at it , or is it alright if it aimed at a whtie Englishman Nydgan?
I don't understand what you are saying. You have story about a guy who wasn't hired because the police wanted to hire qualifed muslims. Whats
wrong with that? Its not an example of people suppressing another people, its white police admins opting to hire more muslims, who are qualified
anyway, in order to have better community relations.
If you were living in saudi arabia, wouldn't you think that it'd be snart
of the authorities to hire anglo police officers to police the
anglos, that those officers would understand anglo culture better and because of that be better cops??
in the way that as in modern British society any one who says antyhing that is not 100% pro Muslim or 100% pro "multicultarism" is labeled a
bigot , which is both disgusting and disturbing in equal measure in my opinion , Nygdan is a prime example of this sort of person
Oh, so now i'm
the bigot for disagreeing with you? Here's a hint, if you don't like other cultures for being different, you are
bigot, thats the damned definition of the word. I never said that because a person isn't wildly pro-muslim that they are a bigot, or that a person
must, for example, remove their cross if it offends muslims. I have said the opposite. I have merely additionally said that muslims have every right
in the world, as fully equal citizens, to say that they are offended when they are.
Saying that muslims shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinions is
bigoted. Is that what you are saying, because you've said that no, you
aren't calling for muslims to be suppresed, but then saying that I am saying you are a bigot. I have said that peopel that are taking bigoted
actions are bigoted, so are you or aren't you taking bigoted actions?
stifle the legitimate conerns of the ordinary man in the street with a blanket or political correctness
I have done absolutely nothing of hte sort and rather it is you that have called for people, specifically muslims, to be stiffled in the streets. If
you disagree with the radical mullahs, go out and say it, you are fully within your rights, and it'd be correct to disagree with lunatics who are
calling for jihad against england. Whats I am saying is wrong is to say that muslims aren't allowed to exercise their legal rights, or that they
should be forced to live identically to other britons (which others seem to be saying).
The British people have every right to be worried and angry over the Islamic radical infestation that is occurring in their country and all of Europe.
Yes. But they don't have a right to restrict the rights of muslims merely because they have unpopular views. If they are calling for violent
revolution agains tthe state, thats one thing, but as long as they aren't breaking any laws, then there can't and shouldn't be any legal action
And so many people are so fast to say America is just violent ignoring the fact that we get millions of impoverished immigrants from poor
countries every year.
And because america is able to accept other cultures, there is far less problems in american in terms of immigration than in europe, for example.
When there were muslims rioting in paris, there were muslims peacefully co-exisitng with their neigbhors in Detroit. We respect them, and they respect
us. If we don't respect the, if we make silly demands on them, like telling them that they aren't allowed to disagree with us, they'd, rightfully,
resent us and disrespect us.
But we could stop these new waves of immigrants who aren't benefiting our country at all.
But the point is that the danes, normans, etc, weren't a benefit to the native population, certainly not at first. Indeed, the Danelaw was never a
benefit for the non-danes, and who is to really say that Norman rule, which threw england into war in europe for generations, was a 'good thing'????
Why would violent and invading anglos be a good thing for england, but legal immigration of south asians not be???
There have been loads of posts on ATS about UK going downhill, UK crime rates and UK riot predictions and they've all turned towards
And I am sure if we had personal records of the average native living under anglo rule, norman rule, or under the Danelaw, that they'd say
'someone's gotta do something about these savages, they're running amuk!" Ultimately, everyone reconciled, got together, and now they don't even
recognize the differences between themselves, they're all 'british'. One day, the pakistanis and indians and anglos won't think of one another as
such, they will just naturally consider everyone to be british. THe muslims are being presented as some unusual or particularly unique threat,
they're not, they're like every other immigrant population, if anything, they are less violent
, since they didn't come as conquerors, and
certainly they learn the language better than the Normas, for example.
Once again looking back in history, those races living in Britain have all benifited us in some way. Pakistanis leeching off of our Government
spending instead of their own doesn't benifit us at all.
The normans, anglos, jutes, danes, all 'leeched' off the system when they arrived, and created special laws for themselves. The muslim immigrants
have already more succesffuly integrated themselves into english culture than those other groups did at similar points in their time here.
We don't need to add any more races to British heritage
Too bad, its happening.
especially if it's going to hinder the country
You haven't been able to show that its a net drain on the country, or that pakistanis and the like are somehow incapable of contributing to the
and especially if the public don't want it and it can be stopped.
The public doesn't have a choice. If they don't want muslims in their country, they shouldn't've let them in. The UK lets peopel that want to
live there come there, thats a pretty reasonable policy.
And it also seems that they don't have to fit in with our religious statements but we have to fit in with theirs.
No, you don't. When the muslims say 'we don't have to worship jesus like these errant idolator british', they are absolutely right, they don't
have to. And when a non-muslim says, 'i don't have to follow the silly and errant muslim religion', they are right, they don't have to.
One of my friends sons was made to remove a crucifix necklace because it offended some of his middle-eastern classmates who were sitting there
in there big turbans or whatever which they were allowed to keep wearing
Is this someting that you know happened or heard happened?
Who's fault is it if this kid removed the crucifix? THe teachers? The muslims? Or his? Its clearly his fault. There is no law in england that
requires the removal of religious items. He was not required to remove the crucifix by the law, and shouldn't have. Its hardly the fault of the
muslims that this kid was weak enough to do so. THey are within their rights to say 'i find that stupid cross offensive', and the kid is in his
rights to say 'too bad'.
But it's like Brits have to live by the immigrants rules!
But you don't! Its you brits that are deciding that you should do this, no one is forcing you. THe suggestion that a student wearing a cross is
offensive is laughable. But rather than laugh at it, the brits comply, and then grumble at their compliance. Thats not the muslims fault, that the
No Muslim WOULD DARE even think about causing this kind of trouble in the U.S.
What do you mean 'dare'? You make it sound like he'd catch a beating if he did. THe muslims in the US realize that they don't need to take
offense to christians, because the christians aren't telling them that they have to act a certain way or else they'll be seen as a threat.
Oh and this is the best bit, if it got too cold during the winter, buses were hired for them to sit in, to keep them warm!!!
And this is a problem because????
While around the corner in the hospital people were waiting on stretchers in corridors of the hospital for a bed to become available!
You suggest that the hospital should
How many new rooms for a hospital would the bus money provide? One? Maybe two? Wheres the sense in it. Seems more like you want the non-muslims to be
treated better than the muslims, that its better to let, by your count, hundreds of muslims be out in the cold, than to have one or two non-muslims in
a bed, in a hospital, but in a hall instead of a room.
Or old folks sitting at home with no heating coz the government wouldnt give them enough pension to buy coalor gas!
Sounds more like the old people are leeching off the state than anything else.
The only way the BNP wont get in within the next 15yrs is because there will be more immigrants than Britons!
Its already been noted that the BNP makes spectacularly small showings at the polls.
Ok, so let me get this straigh, muslims have no right to be upset or speak openly, they have to just keep quite and never complain in order to be
Apple is building a replica of the Kabba in NYC, calling it Apple Mecca, and selling alcohol in it. Of course some muslims will complain, they have a
right to complain.
When artists in NYC took a crucifix and put it in a bottle of piss, christians complained, and it was their right. Whats the problem here?
In a multicultural society there has to be a balance and fairness to all
And that fairness means that muslims are allowed to keep their culture, wear their clothes, openly disagree with the british government, and be
critical of british culture. Jut like any other british person is allowed to do.
are now at a stage where there is no balance or fairness and this spells trouble for the future.
What exactly is going on that there is this supposed 'imbalance'?? If a person jumps up and says 'we've gotta stop these damned muslims, they
should adopt the ways of hte rest of us and shouldnt' be allowed to protest in the streets' that person is wrong
and peopel are right to say
that they are, thats not being a so called 'pc fascist', or 'overly favouring muslims'.
[edit on 13-10-2006 by Nygdan]