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Its gonna kick off in the UK first! *Muslim troubles that is!*

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posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 10:38 AM
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magic you quoted

"And again if you feel so strongly about issue's then do something about it, even if you get arrested it would be worth it would it not. You should not be concerned of what people may call you, racist or otherwise because people usually make such statements to shut people up."

believe me i would love to go out and protest, yes i would be branded a racist, yes i would probably be called a BMP supporter and yes i would almost definetly lose my job. and if i was spotted by police they would definetly get me on a section 5 public order offence, or some other race related crime.

all of the above are absolutley true, now you tell me how we live in democracy,the PC and human rights act are rubbish. the majority population are openly discriminated against but if we dont bend over backward for someone else then were branded as racist scum!

yes i would protest if i knew my job and livelihood would be 100% safe, it is definetly not though and thats what i find the most discusting

i would like to know what other working class people think of this, is anyone else stuck in this predicament

democracy...ha ha wey aye!




posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 10:40 AM
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Buck do you think there may be a possiblity that the powers that be may want radical Muslims to kick off so as to provide a reason to jump on all Muslims from a great height. The pundits of the war on terror have made much about the connection between terror and Muslims so is this all related, is it all a great plan to roundup the Muslims of the UK and inter them/ deport them.

There has to be some reason why people are allowed to gone on the streets and proclaim death to any who insult Islam without the authorities getting involved, so whats it all about. The Police never had a problem sticking the boot in with football hoiligans, miners, poll tax demonstrators, ban the bomb gang etc. I find it hard to believe that the police have turned over a new leaf and are just being more tolerant so something must be afoot.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 10:51 AM
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Fred I never said it would be easy but I'm not talking about you and your mates shouting the odds in the market place. Any demonstration to bring about change has to be organised, be credible and focused on the issue at hand. The larger the protest the better.

Do you remmember all those women who camped outside greenham common etc, they made many sacrfices for their cause and eventually won. I undserstand what you are saying but change is brought about by the voice of many not by the few. Many in this country see that some have more rights than others and that is wrong, all should be treated as equal and if people who live here don not like us, our laws, or traditions then they should leave.

Multi cultural societies can only work if people in them are willing to be seen as equal and fair and all must have an input. Those who wish to spread hate or threaten murder should be arrested and if appropriate deported, they are a threat to all of us and such behaviour cannot and must not be tollerated.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Buck do you think there may be a possiblity that the powers that be may want radical Muslims to kick off so as to provide a reason to jump on all Muslims from a


Maybe so ........ it makes sense to me , I do think however that the other groups you mentioned were all being dealt with a good few years ago , it is more likely to me that simply the fear of being branded a racist or a islamaphobe is more important to police theese days what with the recent increase in litagation for such matters.

Interesting theory though , do you see it as a way say, for the government to eventually come along and say introduce internment and other such measures to reduce the terror threat , or am I misunderstanding you?

[edit on 11-10-2006 by buckaroo]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Fred I never said it would be easy but I'm not talking about you and your mates shouting the odds in the market place. Any demonstration to bring about change has to be organised, be credible and focused on the issue at hand. The larger the protest the better.


if i was ever to demonstrate it would be all of the above. thats the only demonstration that should be tolerated in a democratic society but i would fear for my livelihood and my family, that may sound a bit extreme but i believe thats the society we live in.


Originally posted by magicmushroom
Do you remmember all those women who camped outside greenham common etc, they made many sacrfices for their cause and eventually won. I undserstand what you are saying but change is brought about by the voice of many not by the few. Many in this country see that some have more rights than others and that is wrong, all should be treated as equal and if people who live here don not like us, our laws, or traditions then they should leave.



yes i do and i really respect the commitment they showed. i would be willing to put my job and my life to one side to take this up if i believed enough people were interested, most people seem to be happy living in there own bubbles thinking this doesnt concern them (sorry to generalize here but mostly middle/upper class and the lower working class i.e. the people who dont work and leech for a living). the fact is till more willing people step forward to voice there concern people like me will always be branded as racists (even though im strongly against it)


Originally posted by magicmushroom
Multi cultural societies can only work if people in them are willing to be seen as equal and fair and all must have an input. Those who wish to spread hate or threaten murder should be arrested and if appropriate deported, they are a threat to all of us and such behaviour cannot and must not be tollerated.


canada is the ideal multi-cultiral example, i was there not long ago and i was astounded at the diversity and tolerance of the people! it really made me resent the british government to be honest because once you see canada you realize how little they (the british government) know about integrating socities, if they had been doing there job and arresting these hate spouting preachers, this thing could of been nipped in the bud 10-20 years ago, unfortunatley they allowed them to disappear into communities and prey on young muslims let down by there government.

i believe something is going to kick off and i place the blame on the shoulders of the government, part of me thinks how could they let this happen how could they be so stupid. the other part of me however thinks they knew this could and would happen and this is what they were counting on. you asked Buck "do you think there may be a possiblity that the powers that be may want radical Muslims to kick off so as to provide a reason to jump on all Muslims from a great height"
that sounds very probable, maybe the goverment wants this aswell, if the whole country was in a civil war it would be a good oppourtunity to enstate marshal law and start the begining of a police state.

im optomistic so i dont want to believe that that last sentence i wrote is what there planning because that would be a grim future indeed



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 11:50 AM
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Exactly what you say, it would not be the first time that the British intered people would it. All the rumours about camps being built in the US if true must be for a reason. I know to many it seems ridiculous but no more ridiculous that were still fighting wars etc. It all seems to much of a coincidence, the war on terror-Muslim connections, if we are in a new holy war then would you want the possiblity of having millions who may support the perceived enemy living in your country.

Look what happened to German business's and German nationals here during WW2 and the same in America with the Japanese, they were intered for the duration of the war, so I guess anything is possible.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by malganis
Yes but all of those cultures (Anglos, Saxons, Celts, Normans, Romans, etc.) made Britain a better country,

Not according to the people they replaced.


and i'm proud that they are part of our history. These 'new' immigrants are doing the opposite, leeching off of our good care systems because their own countries aren't as good, commiting stupid acts of violence like this,

The invading saxons and normans were violent leeches. The normans refused to even learn to speak english, and the english language itself changed by adopting franco-norman words.
When the Danes immigrated to england, they didn't assimilate at all. The continued to speak danish, continued their viking like way of life, and created an entirely seperate set of laws for their region, called the 'danelaw'. Only after many many generations did these people cohere together. The same will happen with the pakistani and middle eastern immigrants.




I think a lot of British think the same but they are too scared to say anything because it would be racist.

Perhaps they should recognize that it is racist, and that thats a good enough reason to not think that way. The anglos raped and pillaged their way across the countryside and changed the old language into some pidgin german language. The muslims are assimilating. Not all of them, and not easily, but they are. Its inevitable that they're eventually going to be part of the 'british' identity, and future britishers are going to consider themselves a mix of romans, vikings, germans, gales, and pakistanis, etc.


mumbojumbo
So if you want to live and reside in Britain respect the British.

The thing is, these people are british, they are UK citizens. They don't have to do anything, other than obey the law, they don't even have to speak english or anything like that, but they largely do and they work to assimilate into the british culture. The only people that make it on the news or draw people's attention are the loonies that want an islamic revolution and the like.


billythecat
In the last UK General Elections close on 1 million people voted for the BNP. This is the equvilent of a quarter of the population of New Zealand!

Its also somewhat less that 1/300th of the population of the united states, and there are far more than 1 million muslims in the UK for that matter. I hadn't realized that the BNP were such a small force.

When I operate in Muslim countries I observe their wishes and laws, fit in as much as I can and try never to offend the locals. Maybe Muslims should try this approach in the UK?

And when they do, does it ever get noticed??? They don't have to 'fit in as much as they can', all they have to do is obey british law.


buckaroo
Multicultarlism does not work either , a friend of mine with a degree in law , who is super fit and healthy tried to join the police on a number of occasions he was turned down because he is white and English

Why shouldn't they hire some muslim and south asian officers to patrol the muslim and south asian communities?

we are forced to bend over to accomodate peoples who don't want to integrate in the first place.

How, precisely, have you been forced to do anything???

HUMILIATED Matt Powell was dumped on the scrapheap after applying to be a policeman - because he was white.

Well boo hoo. How many south asians have been beaten on the street or roughed up by the police, merely because they werent' white? And its the 'white' people that are now clamouring for actual anti-muslim laws and hoping for violent riots against muslims, simply because they aren't white. If you and other 'white' britishers are so upset over this, imagine how upset the "non-white" britishers are upset over everything else.

Again Magic mushroom how long do you think id last with a sign reading "all those who insult an englishman kill him" before the PC brigade swarm me?,

Who the heck are you kididng, we're in a thread 'swarming' on muslims who make similar statements. Seems more like its the british nationalists that are being the pc fascists.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Well boo hoo. How many south asians have been beaten on the street or roughed up by the police, merely because they werent' white? And its the 'white' people that are now clamouring for actual anti-muslim laws and hoping for violent riots against muslims, simply because they aren't white. If you and other 'white' britishers are so upset over this, imagine how upset the "non-white" britishers are upset over everything else.


I dont know , doubt its a lot though otherwise you can damn well sure we'd have heard about it in the press , where am I clamouring for Anti Muslim laws eh ? and if you are insuating that I am actively calling and or hoping for Anti Muslim Riots you are sadly mistaken and Infact I take offence.

Again you seem to be missing my point when I am commenting on the growing resentment against Muslims by other British subjects , because of the way that they are seeming to be placed on a pedestal when it comes to there views , on how they percieve we the rest of the population live our lives , why cant people fly the English flag ? this is England , why the police even have to tip off Top Muslim leaders in this country before making anti terror raids , and theese people do not have to sign the official secrets act , Muslims come accross as arrogant and aloof one law for them another for us as it were , because largely of the PC mob who often as I have said in this thread act on there own whims taking actions that they percieve will placate Muslims , most of who dont' give a hoot if we Fly the English flag or whatever. that is what will damage relations with Muslims.

Also we see almost on a weekly basis Muslims around the world Burning our flags , threataning to blow us up , rioting over cartoons for goodness sake , we see So called Muslim leaders in this country being aloud to incite violence against us ,do you think theese are giving a good impression ? I know theese are not a majority , but it is what percieved by the vast majority of the populous that will decide the fate of the so called Multi cultarism in this Country, eventually there will be a breaking point , and so I here you say where are the news stories of the "good" Muslims , nowhere because the papers want to see there circulations boated on the back of Folk like the shoe bomber and sheik Abu Hamza , and this is in fact sad , I woulld like to see more stories about ordinairy Muslim subjects renouncing AQ and the like , but they don't seem to be very forthcoming do they ?



Who the heck are you kididng, we're in a thread 'swarming' on muslims who make similar statements. Seems more like its the british nationalists that are being the pc fascists.


I didn't say I was going to do it , simply stating that whilst the police close off roads arounf Finsbury park so theese folk can do this , I would be in the back of a police van and all over the front page of the guardian being called a racist within hours , that is simply the way it is in Britain , people are scared of how Muslims percieve them , scared of offending Muslims because they know that they will be labbelled racist and even threatend by theese so called mullahs and their ilk.

As a final note on the police thing , you are saying that racism is right are you because thats what that case racism and that is wrong any way you look at it , or is it alright if it aimed at a whtie Englishman Nydgan?



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 03:13 PM
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The British people have every right to be worried and angry over the Islamic radical infestation that is occurring in their country and all of Europe. Radicals anywhere is a serious problem, especially when they are alien to your culture and don't approve of your culture.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 03:17 PM
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Well buckaroo i agree with you 100% and thank you for putting in words what i would struggle to.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by MumboJumbo]



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 04:20 PM
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and i'm proud that they are part of our history. These 'new' immigrants are doing the opposite, leeching off of our good care systems because their own countries aren't as good, commiting stupid acts of violence like this,

The invading saxons and normans were violent leeches. The normans refused to even learn to speak english, and the english language itself changed by adopting franco-norman words.

When the Danes immigrated to england, they didn't assimilate at all. The continued to speak danish, continued their viking like way of life, and created an entirely seperate set of laws for their region, called the 'danelaw'. Only after many many generations did these people cohere together. The same will happen with the pakistani and middle eastern immigrants.


That's the sort of thing that happened back in those days, we couldn't stop the Danes, Romans and Normans coming over, so it happened and in the long run our country benifited from it. But we could stop these new waves of immigrants who aren't benefiting our country at all. Britain has had a good world and national status up until now where our population has reached an all time high and the crime rate isn't anything to be happy about either. There have been loads of posts on ATS about UK going downhill, UK crime rates and UK riot predictions and they've all turned towards immigration.




I think a lot of British think the same but they are too scared to say anything because it would be racist.

Its inevitable that they're eventually going to be part of the 'british' identity, and future britishers are going to consider themselves a mix of romans, vikings, germans, gales, and pakistanis, etc.


Once again looking back in history, those races living in Britain have all benifited us in some way. Pakistanis leeching off of our Government spending instead of their own doesn't benifit us at all. We don't need to add any more races to British heritage especially if it's going to hinder the country and especially if the public don't want it and it can be stopped.





When I operate in Muslim countries I observe their wishes and laws, fit in as much as I can and try never to offend the locals. Maybe Muslims should try this approach in the UK?

And when they do, does it ever get noticed??? They don't have to 'fit in as much as they can', all they have to do is obey british law.


And it also seems that they don't have to fit in with our religious statements but we have to fit in with theirs. One of my friends sons was made to remove a crucifix necklace because it offended some of his middle-eastern classmates who were sitting there in there big turbans or whatever which they were allowed to keep wearing. And this is in Britain against English people!? No wonder why people get p***ed off!



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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There have been loads of posts on ATS about UK going downhill, UK crime rates and UK riot predictions and they've all turned towards immigration.




Now you understand what AMerica is going through! And so many people are so fast to say America is just violent ignoring the fact that we get millions of impoverished immigrants from poor countries every year.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Now you understand what AMerica is going through! And so many people are so fast to say America is just violent ignoring the fact that we get millions of impoverished immigrants from poor countries every year.


That doesn't dissprove America being a violent country... just because you take in millions of poor immigrants from poor countries DOES NOT give you a right to invade other nations.



And it also seems that they don't have to fit in with our religious statements but we have to fit in with theirs. One of my friends sons was made to remove a crucifix necklace because it offended some of his middle-eastern classmates who were sitting there in there big turbans or whatever which they were allowed to keep wearing. And this is in Britain against English people!? No wonder why people get p***ed off!


Wow that is RIDICULOUS. How coul dthe teachers even allow that to happen?
The Brits have seriously cozied up to the Muslims a little bit too much, giving them no hesitation to pull stuff off like this. No Muslim WOULD DARE even think about causing this kind of trouble in the U.S.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 12:10 AM
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That doesn't dissprove America being a violent country... just because you take in millions of poor immigrants from poor countries DOES NOT give you a right to invade other nations.



I am talking about crime. You know DOMESTIC issues. That is the point of this thread.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 04:42 AM
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And it also seems that they don't have to fit in with our religious statements but we have to fit in with theirs. One of my friends sons was made to remove a crucifix necklace because it offended some of his middle-eastern classmates who were sitting there in there big turbans or whatever which they were allowed to keep wearing. And this is in Britain against English people!? No wonder why people get p***ed off!


Wow that is RIDICULOUS. How coul dthe teachers even allow that to happen?
The Brits have seriously cozied up to the Muslims a little bit too much, giving them no hesitation to pull stuff off like this. No Muslim WOULD DARE even think about causing this kind of trouble in the U.S.


It was the teacher that made him remove it because there had been complaints that it was offending other religious classmates. I don't know if it was the middle-eastern kids who complained or their parents, and i'm not sure on the nationality of the teacher. But it's like Brits have to live by the immigrants rules!

[edit on 12/10/2006 by malganis]

[edit on 12/10/2006 by malganis]



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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Nygdan...where planet are you from!!?? that post above is one of the most disgusting, anti-british, racist posts i have ever read! how dare you say that if the people of this country speak out against the injustices and discrimination this goverment endorses they deserve to be branded as racist, where in the uk are you from?? plz im very interested because it must be some fantasy land, the people who are speaking out are people who will be like me who live in the thick of it, who see the trouble, who get hasseled off the police for nothing, who are bled dry by the government to fill there gaping wholes in the economy. what expirience do you have in this plz im very interested.
if i spoke my views in a police presence i would no doubtely be arrested on a section 5 ( that means anything they want to charge me with basically its just used to get me to the station), what i would say may not be considered racist by the majority, but then again this country doesnt listen to the majority anymore does it!

you said

"They don't have to 'fit in as much as they can', all they have to do is obey british law."

british law??? you obviously mean european law because theres so many appeals to the european court of human rights that if the "british law" doesnt give them what they want they go else where dont they and the "british law" is trumped everytime!

someone asked you

"we are forced to bend over to accomodate peoples who don't want to integrate in the first place."

and you said

"How, precisely, have you been forced to do anything???"

obviously i can see you dont live on a council estate, me being from a council estate i get branded a yob, is that not discrimination, more importantly do i care!
i hold my head high and dont retaliate,what gives these people the right to go balistic like there the only people in this country, i have a good job a consider myself lucky but the price of a house is so high it would take me 75 years to pay for one, can i get a council house no i cant because there all taken round my area by immigrants, can i afford a car no, so why do i see these people with £10,000 cars that come from my taxes????. please if anyone thinks this is over the top lets swap acommodation and see how long it take before your resentment kicks in

its people like you who get my blood boiling, why dont you try coming from the bottom of society and see how your opinions change, if the majoritys opinions are ignored how can this country be a democracy?



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 12:24 PM
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Im not going to say much, as really i can't as much of the arguement is not fully in my sphere of understanding. However i live just outside of London, Essex in fact. Now people can say what they please about intergration, however if you speak to any of the locals here they will tell you many examples of poor intergration in the east-end of London. Now it is common knowledge that the muslims that inhabit the east of London 'clump together' as it where, you can say what you want, i KNOW it to be the case. I mean i have heard muslims saying that England will become 'New Pakistan', i mean thats not exageration.

That angers me no end, however what annoys me even more, is that i am physically not allowed to go to Saudi Arabia. My grandfather has had to get a years visa to work there, he HAS to abide by their rules, especially at Ramadan. Yet we work around them here, sorry im lost, when was this ok??? He can't have a beer, i mean he has to eat in his room because its against Ramadan. Muslims preach that they are hard done by, i really fail to see this, i see my country working hard to appease these people. Well im sorry to offend anyone, but it has to stop, its now beyond a joke.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 12:38 PM
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It has already have kicked-off in Denmark, and there are riots on the streets of Tehran in front off the Danish Embassy.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 12:48 PM
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I've got a friend in England who works for immigration.......

He has told me that the illegal immigration sitituation there is out of control.

He has even told me that they are allowed to go up to people in the street and ask for their ID to prove they are there illegally.

That reminds me of gestapo tatics.............of course sometimes I wish that would happen here in the states.......

Like having to show photo ID when voting.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by ferretman2
I've got a friend in England who works for immigration.......

He has told me that the illegal immigration sitituation there is out of control.

He has even told me that they are allowed to go up to people in the street and ask for their ID to prove they are there illegally.

That reminds me of gestapo tatics.............of course sometimes I wish that would happen here in the states.......

Like having to show photo ID when voting.


When I worked in Croydon, London where the immigration office was located. The immigrants would be 5 abreast and a line-up of around 200 yrds! Every morning!!

Oh and this is the best bit, if it got too cold during the winter, buses were hired for them to sit in, to keep them warm!!!

While around the corner in the hospital people were waiting on stretchers in corridors of the hospital for a bed to become available! Or old folks sitting at home with no heating coz the government wouldnt give them enough pension to buy coalor gas!

The only way the BNP wont get in within the next 15yrs is because there will be more immigrants than Britons!



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