Its gonna kick off in the UK first! *Muslim troubles that is!*

Muslims have it far too easy in the UK eh? By making things difficult for muslims there will be less aggitation from muslims???

The UK hasn't had riots on the scale that France and Germany have had because British culture has been able to more or less assimilate and accept muslims. Firebombing muslim businesses or 'rounding them up' ain't going to help.

The Medina Dairy issue is more complex than just the attack, this overblown victim culture on the side of muslims seems ridiculous when you have Asian youths coming down from all over the country, in order to get in a fight. On the third day there were 30 Asian youths hanging around the dairy, in a residential white area, the police were all there, and everyone knew what was happening but they did nothing to stop it.

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere

Unfortunatly, in everyday life in your average northern town, it's THESE groups of "ex-muslims" who come into conflict with the disaffected, and criminal elments in the WHITE population, who rip each other off over drug deals, who "take" each others council house allocations, mug each other etc... and it's these people that are the targets of the BNP etc, ready to whip up more anger..

Alll in all, not a good recipe..

I also agree, I'm glad we agree (great name & avatar BTW)

Particularly agree with your point about crime: I knew some of the people involved in the Bradford riots a few years ago (ie heavily involved at the start ) - one of the major flashpoints was who was to control the large and profitable red-light district; white criminals or brown criminals.

This then, via a few stereotypes, descended into a full-on race-riot which the Police struggled to barely control.

Given the bombings, AQ, etc this situation can only get worse and repeats on a larger scale are, I'm afraid, inevitable.

The flashpoints will be the Northern towns (Bradford, Oldham, Huddersfield etc etc) as the proportions of the mix / crime opportunities for £££ are 'just right' to be exploited / exploded.

One major worrying factor for me is that due to police cuts and particularly the reduction in numbers / transformation of the TA the Govt now has very few available resources to quell serious disturbance. The old days of 500 armed men with vehicles etc available for Chief Constables' needs are, sadly long gone. There are no local garrison / militia to call out and as we know UK Army are largely elsewhere.

Could the UK effectively deal with 3 or 4 sustained violent riots happening at the same time while still policing the rest of the country? - I really don't think so.

I'm amazed we got through this summer without serious disturbance, hopefully a cold wet winter will cool tempers, but the long-term outlook is bleak as far as I can see.

I really hope I'm wrong

Buckaroo you feel that intimidated by such a tiny minority that they dont even register. You complain about Muslims not working, living off the state etc. but how many do you know personally they do this. You complain about them not intergratingg into our society, where the hell have you been living, people from the asian community make up our doctors, surgeons, nurses, lawyers, business owners, teachers the list is endless so you call this not intergrating do you.

Just how much effort have you and those who think like you made to our ethnic groups, probaly nothing you believe the lies and disinformation in the press and when a group speaks out you dont like it. Well the radical elements do not represent the whole, many people do not agree with our foreign policy and that includes many white people.

We live in a democracy where all are at liberty to speak and protest about anything we like. You talk about demonstrating but say you would be arrested, well demonstrate about the things your not happy about and if you get arrested well thats all part of the course. Thats the sacrifice you have to make as have all those who wish to bring about change, so insted of being an armchair whinger do something about it. And while your at it make an effort to understand people from the ethnic minorities, if you do you will find that they are not the lazy, hand out grabbing murderers you think they are.

You will find that they are just like you and I and you will find that with the younger generation of Asian/Muslims that they are leaving their traditional ways behind and are becoming more westernised, not all but many are.

Originally posted by radoult
Whilst I fully agree the fire bombing was wrong you either through careless language or by concious choice gave the impression that they were minding their own business and were victims of an upnprovoked attack,

The "provacation" was in part requesting a prayer room inside their own building.

the links I have seen are silent so I assume no action taken over the other attacks by Muslims.

Why assume no action? The women attacked in the article said she couldn't identify anyone because they all 'looked the same'. Without a witness, how can they arrest anyone???

You havent read it but you can make this claim? on what basis?

? On what basis do I make the claim that the middle east is incredibly religiously diverse? There are yezidi, zoroastrians, druze, nosairii, manicheans, mandeans as the native religions. There are jews everywhere from egypt to iran and they're some of the oldest and longest lived communities of jews in the world, far beyond whats in israel now. There is also a wider variety of christians in the lands in the islamic lands than there is in europe, which only recently invented this whole 'protestant' deal, to add a little variety from the orthodox/catholic dichotomy. Then there are the pahlavis, hindus, jains, sihks and buddhists of various sorts through india, which for generations was ruled absolutely by muslims, and still they didn't wipe out the pagans as the christians did in europe and north and south america. And this ignores new groups like the b'hai that have arisen within islam, that have directly challenged it by claiming to be fufilments of islamic prophecy, and have grown and spread from within islam, not to mention the numerous groups of islamic like religions that aren't considered to be actual muslims by the majority of shia/sunni muslims.
Clearly, Islam has been spread in part by the sword, and certainly islam has had disgustingly intolerate histories with other religions, but in the big bright world of the the propagandistic converting religions, islam simply can't be said to be the one that is wildly violent and intolerant.

rubberjohnny
The Medina Dairy issue is more complex than just the attack, this overblown victim culture on the side of muslims seems ridiculous

Overblown? They firebombed a building because the people in it were muslim. If you disagree with someone, and you lob a bomb at their building, you're a criminal and they are a victim.

On the third day there were 30 Asian youths hanging around the dairy, in a residential white area,

That area belongs to white eh? Muslims aren't allowed?

the police were all there, and everyone knew what was happening but they did nothing to stop it.

Stop what? What crime was being commited? Being non-white in a white owned area? How dastardly! Why can't these people change their skin colour when they come here!?? If they want ot move into the west they have to learn to actually physically be a westerner damnit!

They really don't have any right to bomb a building in order to prevent it from becoming, NOT a mosque, but a prayer room.

And them involved, Muslim Asians do not have the right to attack someones mother who were trying to sort out the problem A.k.a. The mother who was attacked with a lead pipe as shown on Sky News, Showed the bruise from the attack on her leg.

A scuffle near the Medina Dairy where a mother and her 15-year-old son received minor injuries is thought to have sparked last week's trouble. Officers also said plans by the owner, Sardar Hussain, to use one of the dairy buildings as an Islamic education centre was behind some of the unrest.

SOURCE

Sure, but not the criminals who've decided to use violence instead of their voices. Arrest anyone that was using violence in this instance, muslim or otherwise. And why the heck should the community care if there is a simple official prayer room in a muslim owned business? If they don't want traffic, fine, but it seems that they simply feel that islam is stupid and these people shouldn't be allowed to practice their faith.

I meant the community leaders, religious leaders,council officials, authorities to sort out the issue, open discussion or dialogue, not violence against one another.

Says who? The muslims didn't firebomb the local church in order to prevent people from praying.

And how are they not as bad as each other? Both sides attacked each other, in my book that makes them as guilty as each other.

Preposterous, the UN has no authority to prevent all war. War is not illegal.

Oh thats right I forgot the UN stands for nothing nowadays. The UK and USA just ignores the international communities wishes anyways. This is not what this thread of discussion is about, Will discuss this in another thread, if need be.

It seems that the only people being oppresed in the UK are the muslims. Its a muslim business that was firebombed, and its the british that have a political party like the BNP calling out for their oppression. Everyone keeps complaining that if they speak out against muslims, they'll get labeled as racist. So what, if a person acts racist, then they are racist, people noting that isn't oppression.

Absolute hogwash. So when a group of ,uslims stand outside with their placards, written on them death to the infidels, death to anyone who disagrees with islam, that is them being oppresed? Oh please give me a break. There has been racial tensions over the past 15 years. Both sides have been oppressed. Not just muslims. Oh so it is oks for Muslims to stand outside mosques and protest with placards? Shout abuse at Soldiers, vandalize the House that they are livin in, that is right oh wait they are being oppressed. That is not oppression that is complete violence and racism.

Muslims are just as racist as the folks in the WHITE community as you put it.

Oh and thanks for copyin and pasted a posting I made in another Thread on a different issue.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
And them involved, Muslim Asians do not have the right to attack someones mother

Yes, and???

And how are they not as bad as each other? Both sides attacked each other,

Some muslims attacked a woman. The article said nothing about the people that firebombed the muslim building doing so in her defense, and in fact it noted that the community was already ticked off at the muslims for:

1.Existing
2.Having the nerve to want to pray

The woman attacked couldn't identify anyone that works at the Dairy as her attackers even. What happened is that a bunch of thugs vented their rage at some muslims.

Absolute hogwash. So when a group of ,uslims stand outside with their placards, written on them death to the infidels, death to anyone who disagrees with islam, that is them being oppresed?

No, that'd be them exercising their rights as british citizens. Its when the thugs come by and start firebombing their houses, beating them on the streets, or when the politicians and public start talking about 'doing something about the evil muslims' that the muslims are being oppressed.

Both sides have been oppressed.

Thats a joke. What laws have the muslims enacted that have restricted the rights of the non-muslims? What muslim towns have physically forced non-muslims out by firebombing their churches?

Oh so it is oks for Muslims to stand outside mosques and protest with placards?

Of course it is.

Shout abuse at Soldiers

Of course it is.

vandalize the House

Of course it is not.

Muslims are just as racist as the folks in the WHITE community as you put it.

I didn't start using the term white community, I was responding to someone else that was talking about the muslims being wrong for moving into a 'white' neighbhorhood.

Oh and thanks for copyin and pasted a posting I made in another Thread on a different issue.

Did I? Apologies, it must've been in error.

Given the average educational standard of the UK yob (lest we forget these people attacked a paediatrician when there was witch-hunt against paedophiles) I'm sure the dairy owner's name Sardar Hussain is, in some small way, responsible.

Obviously it's a tit for tat situation with blame on both sides and I do think the media are going out looking for these situations to report. I doubt we'll ever agree on / can usefully debate the specific situation in a small UK town.

Back to the bigger picture question - is there overall rising tension / a big clash coming in the UK or is it just being temporarily highlighted by the media?

I think that the english in general are better able to deal with 'foreign' peoples and cultures, and immigrants are better able to assimilate to the larger 'british' culture than in, say, france, germany, and other countries. Since I think that that is the biggest indicator of whether or not there will be immigrant riots, I think that this is just a blip, media hype, etc. Possibly its more sinister and represents the inability of an intolerate segment within britiain, both in terms of immigrants unwilling to assimilate, and these so called 'yobs' who don't care if they assimilate or not but want to bash some immigrants, to deal with one another. THen we might 'just' have sporadic clashes between these two groups, but not 'england wide' riots.

I think that the british are more accepting of foreign populations because of the history of the formation of the 'british' people (there is no such this as a 'britisher', they're anglos, saxons, jutes, welsh, scots, gales, french normans, and even a smattering of danes, not to mention far distant italic-latin types thrown in there), and because of the imperial-colonial experience of britian. That colonial experience put many british people in contact with foreign cultures, and even the 'home culture' got to see reports of all these different cultures, from all over the world. It must've given them some sort of perspective. And the successes of the colonial system also allowed colonials to migrate into the british isles themselves, giving the british a longer history of dealing with 'foreign culture immigrants', than say, the french and germans.

Yes but all of those cultures (Anglos, Saxons, Celts, Normans, Romans, etc.) made Britain a better country, and i'm proud that they are part of our history. These 'new' immigrants are doing the opposite, leeching off of our good care systems because their own countries aren't as good, commiting stupid acts of violence like this, it's just going to drag the country down. I don't want to see these new waves of immigrants merging into Britain because it's doing more bad than good. I think a lot of British think the same but they are too scared to say anything because it would be racist.

I think that it’s just a select few extreme Muslims who give the rest a bad name and racism or discrimination is never right. However I can see why so many people are turning to parties like the BNP and why you would say that anti-muslim riots will happen first in the uk. I also have to agree with Jack straw statement and think he was very brave to say it under today’s climate. He reckons the veil is a visible sign of "difference and separation" that can hinder community relations.

So if you want to live and reside in Britain respect the British. If not - go somewhere else.

In the last UK General Elections close on 1 million people voted for the BNP. This is the equvilent of a quarter of the population of New Zealand! With Muslims making constant threats to anyone who upsets them and constantly moaning about the manner in which they are treated, then the far "Right" vote will only increase.

When I operate in Muslim countries I observe their wishes and laws, fit in as much as I can and try never to offend the locals. Maybe Muslims should try this approach in the UK?

The worryng thing is I have friends, who, a few years ago I would have described as "Left Wing" Those same friends are now constantly talking about the Muslim problem in the UK, with some stating that they will vote BNP in the next elections. We are talking about educated, intelligent people in responsible, well paid jobs, who are so sick and tired of constantly hearing Muslims whinge, that they will vote for a political party with Nazi links!

Scarey stuff eh?

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Buckaroo you feel that intimidated by such a tiny minority that they dont even register.

Where did I say I was intimidated by this minority , nowhere , because im not .

You complain about Muslims not working, living off the state etc. but how many do you know personally they do this.

None admitadly personally but , do you deny that Abu Hamza , and a long list of "preachers" that make the news are all claiming huge amounts of benefits.

You complain about them not intergratingg into our society, where the hell have you been living, people from the asian community make up our doctors, surgeons, nurses, lawyers, business owners, teachers the list is endless so you call this not intergrating do you.

I live in the real world thanks for asking , who said anything about the Asian community ? I was talking about radicalised and hatefilled Muslims , No s*** that a lot of "Asians" as you put it are doctors , one a muslim Lady in traditional garb and all (gasp) saved my Nans life a few months ago ,
How many of those in my picture are integrated?

Just how much effort have you and those who think like you made to our ethnic groups, probaly nothing you believe the lies and disinformation in the press and when a group speaks out you dont like it. Well the radical elements do not represent the whole, many people do not agree with our foreign policy and that includes many white people.

None why should I what do you want me to do knock on there door and invite them to the pub? , do you like protests like the one in London over the stupid Danish cartoons ? how do you think comes across to the rest of Britain?

We live in a democracy where all are at liberty to speak and protest about anything we like. You talk about demonstrating but say you would be arrested, well demonstrate about the things your not happy about and if you get arrested well thats all part of the course. Thats the sacrifice you have to make as have all those who wish to bring about change, so insted of being an armchair whinger do something about it. And while your at it make an effort to understand people from the ethnic minorities, if you do you will find that they are not the lazy, hand out grabbing murderers you think they are.

Again im not on about Ethnic minorites and certainly did not call them all lazy mudering doleites did you read my post huh? In some towns I wouldn't even be able to fly My countries flag how do you expect me to be able to protest against Muslim radicals?

You are typical of The PC mafia trying to smear me , twisting my words bet you were just itching to call me a racist too weren't you?

PC does not work it alienates the majority of people making them resentful , Multicultarlism does not work either , a friend of mine with a degree in law , who is super fit and healthy tried to join the police on a number of occasions he was turned down because he is white and English , how do you think that and the other stories that are similar in there glourious stupidity come accross eh ? do you and others not see ? we are forced to bend over to accomodate peoples who don't want to integrate in the first place.



[edit on 11-10-2006 by buckaroo]

Buckaroo I dont think your racist and I'm far from being PC its just that I have grown a brain and have far more experience of people from different walks of life than you do.
And I stated that we live in a democracy where all are free to demonstrate if they wish, so stop moaning about others who have the balls to speak out even if you dont have any. And your quote of a friend not getting a job because he white is really silly and shows just how ignorant you are. And yes maybe you should knock on somebodys door and communicate with them, its what intelligent humans do so give it a try.

Silly really ?

read on..............

Link

A police force has admitted breaking the law with a secret policy of 'deselecting' more than 100 potential recruits for no other reason than being white men.

Humiliated Gloucestershire Police said it had been trying to 'advance diversity' when it rejected the 108 men in favour of women and ethnic minority candidates.

Source

HUMILIATED Matt Powell was dumped on the scrapheap after applying to be a policeman - because he was white.

Matt, 30, decided to pursue his childhood dream of being a bobby when he saw a job advert in a newspaper.

It happens dont kid yourself ......




[Mod Edit: Link format - Jak

[edit on 11/10/06 by JAK]

Again Magic mushroom how long do you think id last with a sign reading "all those who insult an englishman kill him" before the PC brigade swarm me?, before the police arrest me to prevent a race riot .

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Buckaroo you feel that intimidated by such a tiny minority that they dont even register.

I agree. It surprised me that the actions of a few turned into a "IT'S STARTING RIGHT HERE AND RIGHT NOW!!!" shriek. You could make a better case for trouble in France, particularly after the riots last year. One house trashing is hardly in the same league.

And while your at it make an effort to understand people from the ethnic minorities, if you do you will find that they are not the lazy, hand out grabbing murderers you think they are.

Let's not forget that if we look around, we see a lot of our own race (whichever race you happen to be) who could be identified as "lazy, hand out grabbing murderers." I can point to a lot of my WASP Fellow Citizens who are living on welfare, robbing banks, dealing coc aine etc, etc.

You will find that they are just like you and I and you will find that with the younger generation of Asian/Muslims that they are leaving their traditional ways behind and are becoming more westernised, not all but many are.

It's been interesting to see the changes in the clothing styles that the women wear. I love the idea that many traditional Muslim women are now wearing floor-length blue jean skirts (and many of them wear pants)!

Anyway, I agree with the point that one nasty act is hardly a riot and governmental takeover.

Originally posted by Indellkoffer

Let's not forget that if we look around, we see a lot of our own race (whichever race you happen to be) who could be identified as "lazy, hand out grabbing murderers." I can point to a lot of my WASP Fellow Citizens who are living on welfare, robbing banks, dealing coc aine etc, etc.

So very true Indellkoffer, but I had not said that All Muslims were like this if you disagree with that statement reread my original post on this discussion and point it out to me , AGAIN I was talking about the vast Majority of the celebrity Muslims if you will , your Abu Hamzas etc .

Not to mention the fact that magicmushroom has also decided to say that I called all ehnic minorities "lazy, hand out grabbing murderers." when I had not mentioned ethnic minorities atall , I am being smeared by the Multicultarist mafiosi.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by buckaroo]

Buck its simple what the Police are doing is not discrimination, employers like the the Police are trying to have a work force that reflects the make up of the population and is trying to be fair. Its no different if in the area you live that employers and the LA would offer jobs to out of work people who live within that area because they are trying to look after the local people. are you saying that is wrong.

And again if you feel so strongly about issue's then do something about it, even if you get arrested it would be worth it would it not. You should not be concerned of what people may call you, racist or otherwise because people usually make such statements to shut people up.

A few years back I was asked to sign a petition against the BNP, I refused to and was promptly called a BNP supporter by the young lady who was asking for signitures. She asked me did I support thr BNP, I replied it does not matter who I support but I believe we live in a democracy and even the BNP have a right to their views just as you have a right to ask people to sign your petition, thats what democracy is about.

Please remember when you see radical elements on the street they are just that, a tiny minority of ignorant missinformed people, they do not reflect the view of all and I would be happy to see anyone locked up etc. who preached hate, murder whoever they were. As I have said before in a peacful society we cannot afford the luxury of any form of exstremism.

I agree Magic , its obvious that a force with a high number of Muslims lets say for arguments sake living in its jurisdiction would want to see a larger number of Muslim officers , but in this case highlighted in the two sources I provided the Force was breaking the law , you can't just exclude a person because of their ethnicity ,

But the point that I was making in my OP which seems now to have got a little muddled is among other things perception , perception is key cases like this have to be highlighted , and when they are they cause a fracture in relations between communities .

Please it is PC and extreme Muslims I am having a go at .

Why on Earth can we not treat Muslims as any other British subject ? why cant we ? why are Muslims so differant what makes them special , why must we tread on eggshells when talking about them .

Let me highlight this case.

Link
A Muslim minicab driver refused to take a blind passenger because her guide dog was "unclean".

Abdul Rasheed Majekodumni told Jane Vernon she could not get into his car with the dog because of his religion.

Theese people must know that our laws take must take precidance over their faith( it is ilegal for a Hackney carriage driver to refuse entry to a guide dog)

Tolerance in this society is give and take you know .......

Buck we should respect the wishes of others in our communities but not to the extent of what some are doing now. Sooner or later these matters have to be dealt with in a sensible, logical way, too many are using their religion as an excuse to do what they like. In an odered society all have to obey the rules if not you have anarchy.