Exactly, and how is it that these chemtrails end up in patterns? Because they are intentional! Chemtrails are real! There is a such thing as Chemtrails, because i have seen Chemtrails being sprayed, and a plane in the distance with a contrail, can anyone tell me why only one of the planes exaust was dissapeiring seconds after being made? IMO, Chemtrails are real, and contrails are a diferent thing from Chemtrails

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
can anyone tell me why only one of the planes exaust was dissapeiring seconds after being made? IMO, Chemtrails are real, and contrails are a diferent thing from Chemtrails

Good point, every time i see chemtrails being made there are some commercial planes that flys near by and their contrails disipate like 20 seconds afterwards.


Ok so anyone have any ideas yet?

Awareness or stopping it all together? maybe awareness is the way to get it to stop.

Well, i dont belive in this idea, but according to some people, you can Dissapate Chemtrails by using orgone Generators, which imo, is ridiculous, but hey, if it works, then ill admit im wrong.

Okay I am not posting Ture evidence of chemtrails but Major observations on the atmosphere within the last week.

I think it was tuesday, Chemtrails litter the sky. Air quality was reported at healthy. Air seemed okay from my point of view until the next day.

Wednesday, No chemtrails, oddly enough. Sky is completly clear, Air smells really fresh and heavy. Very clean in my opinion, I smoke so i know the difference between clean and dirty air haha.

Thursday, Air quality Healthy, no chemtrails. Fresh air again and I felt great.

Friday, back to chemtrails. Still air quality was reported as healthy, but I noticed a slight difference this time. Since where I live has so many chemtrails on a daily basis its hard to tell what the air really does smell like naturally. So now that I knew what (semi) fresh air was like from the day before I could definately tell the air was heavier with Heat and some sort of dust or film in the air. The chemical particles from the air
doesn't settle to the ground because its to light but puts a film in the air similar to putting a thing plasic sheet in front of your face. I can still see clearly through it but you know somethting is there.

Originally posted by selfless

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
can anyone tell me why only one of the planes exaust was dissapeiring seconds after being made? IMO, Chemtrails are real, and contrails are a diferent thing from Chemtrails

Good point, every time i see chemtrails being made there are some commercial planes that flys near by and their contrails disipate like 20 seconds afterwards.


Ok so anyone have any ideas yet?

Awareness or stopping it all together? maybe awareness is the way to get it to stop.

Ok folks. Let me see if I can put this into very simple terms that you can understand.

Contrails are basically condensation. They dissipate or remain persistent depending on the atmospheric conditions that exist at the time of their creation.

Let’s take something that you may be familiar with, fog. Fog can be created when the dew point (the temperature to which the air must be cooled to reach saturation) and temperature become the same. If the temperature rises, the fog goes away. If the wind picks up, the fog can be dissipated or move, causing striation. If the temperature remains the same and the wind remains calm, the fog remains. The same happens in the atmosphere. Thus, contrails can be persistent, they can be momentary, they can move, change shape as winds and wind shear affects them, or they can dissipate very rapidly. As they are an atmospheric condition, they are likewise affected by atmospheric conditions.

Those of you who do nothing but bash those you call "debunkers" sound very silly. You hope to prove the existence of something with no proof OF it's existence simply by claiming everybody who disagrees with you is a "government disinformation agent". Do you really think the government gives a flying fark if you believe in "chemtrails" or not? You overestimate your importance greatly.

Everything I have said is backed up with scientific fact. Try it some time.

Affirmative Reaction
You suggested I back up what I "claim" I saw with pics. Firstly I don't come on line and lie about what I see. I have no reason to, secondly this thread is titled Chemtrails Brainstorm. There is no proof necessary in brainstorming.

Those of you who are trolling on this thread, and it's obvious you are or you wouldn't be so rude and arrogant to the rest of us who are exploring this phenomena, can just go start your own thread about the ignorant conspiracy theorist instead of ruining this thread. Just because you are niave and think that everything legitimate is backed up by scientific fact doesn't take away from the fact that alot of us are seeing and experiencing something that just isn't right. There are plenty of people who are seriously investigating the trails left behind by airplanes but most comman folks aren't prepared to test jet trails so we are working with what we have. What we have is a common interest and desire to expose the truth.

You aren't debunking anything, you are trolling. Plain and simple.

And by the way. Most of us are already aware that the government doesn't give "a flying fark" about what we believe. They don't need our vote, they can make whatever they choose happen with or without our consent. But hey, do they care a bit about you, either? If they cared what we thought they probably wouldn't poison our air. And YES I believe they are. And NO I can't prove it. And MAYBE I can brainstorm it.

[edit on 8-10-2006 by interestedalways]

I'll take this one, Affirmative.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Affirmative Reaction
You suggested I back up what I "claim" I saw with pics. Firstly I don't come on line and lie about what I see. I have no reason to, secondly this thread is titled Chemtrails Brainstorm. There is no proof necessary in brainstorming.

Those of you who are trolling on this thread, and it's obvious you are or you wouldn't be so rude and arrogant to the rest of us who are exploring this phenomena, can just go start your own thread about the ignorant conspiracy theorist instead of ruining this thread. Just because you are niave and think that everything legimate is backed up by scientific fact doesn't take away from the fact that alot of us are seeing and experiencing something that just isn't right. There are plenty of people who are seriously investigating the trails left behind by airplanes but most comman folks aren't prepared to test jet trails so we are working with what we have. What we have is a common interest and desire to expose the truth.

You aren't debunking anything, you are trolling. Plain and simple.

Pictures isn't backing up anything. He just explained how everything in those pictures is entirely within the normal realms. Therefore, your 'evidence' is null and void.
Second, he never said you were lying about the pictures. Because they fail to show anything.
Next: Anyone who disagrees with you isn't trolling. The fact is, you're not exploring anything. You're blowing hot-air, and we're here to suppress it.
Fourth: We're .. 'naive', I think you mean, even though we, specifically Affirmative, provide a scientific basis? Interesting.
Fifth: Evidence here, -Would be- Scientific Evaluation and Acceptance. And for all of your 'serious investigation', you fail to provide it.
Sixth: Even though you all-ready provided a test sample, which was explained.

[edit on 8-10-2006 by Iblis]

Originally posted by interestedalways
Affirmative Reaction
You suggested I back up what I "claim" I saw with pics. Firstly I don't come on line and lie about what I see. I have no reason to, secondly this thread is titled Chemtrails Brainstorm. There is no proof necessary in brainstorming.



[edit on 8-10-2006 by interestedalways]

I never said you lied about what you saw, but nice attempt at twisting my words to suit your purpose. Unfortunately for you, it didn't work, as my words are there for anyone who wishes to read them. I simply offered an explanation for what you claim to have seen, based on my experience and expertise. You chose to attempt to turn it into something it wasn't because that is the only thing you have to fall back on. You have no proof, no scientific information, and are trying to prove a negative. That cannot be done, so as I stated before, your only recourse is to bash everyone who disagrees with you.

As far as your brainstorming, I have seen none of that. Of course, it's quite impossible to brainstorm about something that doesn't exist. Now, if you want to brainstorm on how to do away with “contrails”, at least you’ll be discussing an actual phenomenon!!!

Originally posted by snoopyuk

Originally posted by eaglewingz
Then please explain how these contrails from B-17s got so long in only a few seconds.

[edit on 10/8/2006 by eaglewingz]

because they used a different fuel back then. as i stated earlier aviation fuel has changed .

[edit on 8-10-2006 by snoopyuk]

And has the basic formula for a combustion reaction changed?


Hydrocarbon + oxygen => Water + Carbon dioxide.

So, you're saying Turbine fuel and my car-gasoline are one and the same? ..
Interesting..
I should really try to add wings to my car one day. Then I won't have to pay several hundred dollars for a one-way ticket using Delta!

[edit on 8-10-2006 by Iblis]

Iblis says "I should try adding wings to my car one day"

This is how those of you who come on threads to derail behave. First you razz people about their spelling, then you make fun with a remark like I quoted above. It is laughable really. By the time anyone has a chance to debate the original subject the thread is so weighted down with bickering back and forth that the intent is long lost.

Your behaviour (and you know who you are) serves only to add to my belief that there is in fact very much to hide or people like you wouldn't waste your time trolling around and diverting our attention from discussion to merely defending ourselves.

For instance Iblis, you registered, what, 3 days ago, and here you are, expert thread killer on a chemtrail brainstorming session. Why are you so passionate about this particular subject? Or are you just here to annoy in general?

Originally posted by interestedalways
Iblis says "I should try adding wings to my car one day"

This is how those of you who come on threads to derail behave. First you razz people about their spelling, then you make fun with a remark like I quoted above. It is laughable really. By the time anyone has a chance to debate the original subject the thread is so weighted down with bickering back and forth that the intent is long lost.

Your behaviour (and you know who you are) serves only to add to my belief that there is in fact very much to hide or people like you wouldn't waste your time trolling around and diverting our attention from discussion to merely defending ourselves.

For instance Iblis, you registered, what, 3 days ago, and here you are, expert thread killer on a chemtrail brainstorming session. Why are you so passionate about this particular subject? Or are you just here to annoy in general?

The only reason this thread lacks any further debate, is that there is none. The nay-sayers have provided an overwhelming amount of evidence, while the others begin to bicker, and pick fights, and insult us. With nothing left to scientifically attack, we do the same, as they attempt to tie it in to how valid our argument is.

As for your comment? I was complimenting the absurdity of it. They are in no way the same, so yes, it was laughable.

So, tell me then, telling you, that you are in fact wrong, makes you right? Aaaah. Very good logic there. Short-bus theorism of a different kind.

Oooo. Lemme' do this in a series.
a. I did not kill the thread. Inane bitching and lack of anything to disprove by the Pro-Chemtrail party killed it.
b. I am not passionate about it. I am an active debater. If I said nothing, after a post or two, there'd have been no point for me to speak at all.
c. Annoyance and proving you wrong, then claiming how absurd your argument is are two different things in the eyes of a neutral party.
d. I'm passionate because while I do work for the Airforce, I'm actually Intelligence. We've been monitering this site for months, verifying and assessing who is an actual threat, to what degree, and why; and Chemtrails are our pick-of-the-week.

..

Okay, the last one may've been a -wee- bit sarcastic.
Now, if I truly wanted to bitch and insult, I'd say the boy who, several pages back, offered I wasn't an actual pilot failed to Private-Message anything to me besides calling me rude and blowing up his own ego. He spent a good three or four posts trying to disapprove I was a pilot, even though it was a single, a single little bit of factual support for my evidence-- in the vain hope that should I somehow be proven 'lying' about my profession, and appear less credible.

interestedalways,

I wonder, do you realize that you are proving my point exactly? You have offered absolutely NO evidence to support your claims, yet state them as "fact". You then continue to attack those who DO offer proof, or whose opinions differ from yours as if that lends credence to your fallacy. What possible proof does length of membership to this forum lend to your argument? Your claim is nothing short of silly!!!

If such length of membership is to be the litmus test for honesty, take a look at my profile. As I have been a member MUCH longer than you, by your standards I must be right....

Holy Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ my friend, you have a-lot of points there.
[Very much Off-Topic]

Selfless
i think you need to talk to a Mod to get this thread back to the topic

Originally posted by Iblis

Like, the body of an aircraft? That might have been scraped going through a storm, or have been flaking off due to a miscellaneous scratch here or there?

Like the body of an aircraft? You are supposed to be an F-16 combat pilot and you say the body of an aircraft? Never have I hear anyone that knows aviation say "body" when talking about aircraft. Scraped going through a storm? Scraped by what? A lightning bolt strikes an aircraft, and ice cannot scrape aircraft aluminumn.

You my friend, are not an F-16 pilot, you are a fake!

Originally posted by whaaa

To the topic at hand; Chem/Contrails can never be stopped because this seemingly physical phenomenon isn't what it seems. At least that's what I think and have no concrete proof; just a gut feeling.

I feel the same way, something is totally amiss, the logistics dont make any sense. Something is really strange goign on with these things. When I first noticed them back in 1999, that same year there was this spider web like material covering the entire car lot of over 400 cars.

Everyone has this respitory problem too, that just wont go away, I am now days Fire/EMS and we are getting way to many calls for younger people with this respitory problem that is chronic. It will go away for a while then comes back.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction


Ok folks. Let me see if I can put this into very simple terms that you can understand.

Contrails are basically condensation. They dissipate or remain persistent depending on the atmospheric conditions that exist at the time of their creation.

Let’s take something that you may be familiar with, fog. Fog can be created when the dew point (the temperature to which the air must be cooled to reach saturation) and temperature become the same. If the temperature rises, the fog goes away. If the wind picks up, the fog can be dissipated or move, causing striation. If the temperature remains the same and the wind remains calm, the fog remains. The same happens in the atmosphere. Thus, contrails can be persistent, they can be momentary, they can move, change shape as winds and wind shear affects them, or they can dissipate very rapidly. As they are an atmospheric condition, they are likewise affected by atmospheric conditions.

Look there bubba we all know what creates a contrail. I understand about contrails lasting for even a few hours, you reach a certain dewpoint and they will linger. For one thinkg I have seen them last from early morning until late evening.

Another point is when they are spotted at the horizon. If something is at 28,000 feet of altitude, and can be seen on the horizon, if you do the math it is over 200 miles away. It is basic triginometry, something you learned in navigation class. You cant see 200 miles through the atmosphere with the naked eye. Therefore the object needs to be at a much, much lower altitude. I have seen chemtrails that are below clouds that were at 12,000 feet. How do you form a contrail below 12,000 feet?


Edit to add: Affirmitive Reaction, you stated that you are a tanker pilot of over twenty years of service? What in the heck is an educated 40 something year old man stating location "NUNYA (could be chillin' at the kwaj lodge!)" NUNYA and chillin' for some reason doesnt sound like something a 40 year old would say. I think you may be in the service because you know about the Kwajelien atol in Hawaii but I doubt you are a middle aged man.

[edit on 8-10-2006 by LoneGunMan]

To be fair, my father, up until his early sixties, thought 'chillin', and more worrisome, 'Snappin'' were fun words to use. I'm pretty sure the latter wasn't even lingo.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan


Look there bubba we all know what creates a contrail. I understand about contrails lasting for even a few hours, you reach a certain dewpoint and they will linger. For one thinkg I have seen them last from early morning until late evening.

Another point is when they are spotted at the horizon. If something is at 28,000 feet of altitude, and can be seen on the horizon, if you do the math it is over 200 miles away. It is basic triginometry, something you learned in navigation class. You cant see 200 miles through the atmosphere with the naked eye. Therefore the object needs to be at a much, much lower altitude. I have seen chemtrails that are below clouds that were at 12,000 feet. How do you form a contrail below 12,000 feet?

Let me see if I can explain it to you, "Bubba"...

Condensation can occur at any, repeat "ANY" altitude, from ground level up to whatever altitude you wish to discuss. Have you ever seen an air show where a fast mover, say an F-16, F-18, or any other fighter is doing high angle of attack maneuvers? Ever see one come in low and fast and do a hard pull up, at which time a contrail forms at the trailing edge of said aircrafts wing? That's condensation! If it was cold, it would linger longer, but it's usually warmer, so it dissipates almost immediately. Well, the higher you go, the colder it becomes, thus contrails last longer. However, if it's a bit nippy at lower altitudes, then contrails form at said lower altitudes, thus creating the "illusion" that they are closer to the horizon, which would then make you THINK they are further away.

Clouds are condensate, moisture in the air, are they not? Fog is a cloud at ground level, correct? Contrails are also condensate, as proven. They can and do occur at any altitude when atmospheric conditions are favorable.

Clear?