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Chemtrails brainstorm.

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posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 03:22 PM
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So, if you are trying to inform someone about chemtrails and they ask you what are they spraying, and you say


I do not know what they are spreading and i do not know for what purpose and no one else knows either so why are you asking me these questions?


What do you think they will think?




posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by selfless

Originally posted by HowardRoark


So, all of the climatologists and atmospheric scientists all over the world are in on this also, is that what you are saying?



Nope that's not what im saying, there are some atmospheric scientists who believe something is going on.


A credible scientist, or someone who thinks Katrina was the result of a Japanese gangster's desire to avenge Hiroshima?

[edit on 10-10-2006 by HowardRoark]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 03:25 PM
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The Coming Global Desert?

If in an environment of 30% humidity you have what appears to be a cloud forming, it is logical to allow for the possibility of a foreign material or aerosol that is gathering what little moisture is available into that cloud formation. In this regard, Carnicom has developed a hypothesis that correlates well with the known facts. Since it is impossible for clouds to form under relative humidity conditions below 70% without the introduction of an aerosol of fine particles, then such particles must be present. Logically, these particles should contain nuclei with a water-loving nature, such as salt.

Carnicom concludes that barium salts are the answer. When barium carbonate is burned it forms barium oxide. Among other properties it possesses, barium oxide absorbs moisture, absorbs CO2 and induces respiratory distress.

It appears that the chemtrail aerosol is designed to function like a net, capturing moisture in the atmosphere on a planetary level, and then redirecting that moisture into space. Says Carnicom, "There is a case developing that moisture is actually being drawn out of the sky by this material and that the rainfall patterns are being altered."

It seems to work like this: Chemtrail clouds draw moisture and carbon dioxide out of the surrounding air and the atmosphere gets dryer and thinner. As long as the chemtrail clouds are still present, they reflect the sun's heat back into space, making the reduction of sun-shielding atmosphere less noticeable. But as soon as the spraying stops over a given region for a number of days, the land and air become extremely dry and overheated. This occurred over Montana, Washington and British Columbia during the summer of 2003, causing massive forest fires. In British Columbia, the Nelson Daily News reported the driest conditions in fifty years. Anyone paying attention to the sky saw heavy spraying throughout the year over these forested regions, but by the end of July all spraying stopped.

The same series of events may also have been used to trigger record temperatures and forest fires in Europe. "We've not seen such an extended period of dry weather and sunny days since records began (in about 1870)," said Michael Knobelsdorf, a meteorologist with the German weather service, referring to Europe as a whole.13

This book documents heavy spraying over Europe with numerous color photographs taken during the preceding winter and spring that led up to the scorching summer of 2003.14 In addition, a severe drought was also experienced in South Central India where I had earlier photographed chemtrail spraying.

If the chemtrails are being sprayed to protect mankind from a thinning atmosphere and the resulting rise in solar heat, why did they stop spraying in some areas during the hottest months of the summer in 2003? And more importantly, why didn't they resume the spraying to help control the widespread forest fires that began the following week?

Excerpts from the new wall calendar/picture book, Chemtrails of the World,
by Mark Metcalf.

References

1. Dugway Proving Grounds, UT

2. Chemtrails: The Video, available from Silver Protects, Inc. Call 503 359-5954.US

3. Air Force Fact Sheet, March 2003

4. www.rense.com... , August 20, 2003

5. www.afrocubaweb.com... , August 20, 2003

6. Radio program, circa 2000

7. "More than 50% of the population will be diagnosed with cancer during their lifetime and the percentage is steadily climbing. Today the cancer rate is 1 out of 2 for men and 2 out of 3 for women." www.drkelley.com... , August 20, 2003

8. Monsanto Watch at www.purefood.org... , August-20-2003

9. Ted Gunderson documentary video available from Silver Protects, Inc. Call 503 359-5954.

10. Clifford Carnicom is a research scientist, and was a federal employee for 15 years with three different agencies: the United States Department of Defense, the Bureau of Land Management, and the U.S. Forest Service. His technical background is extensive in the fields of geodetic science, advanced mathematics, computer science, and the physical sciences.

11. "Lyme disease cases jumped 34% in Wisconsin last year, a near-record level that outpaced the nationwide incidence, which increased 24%. Wisconsin has the seventh highest incidence of the disease. In 1998, the incidence was nearly 13 per 100,000 residents, which still pales alongside the 70 per 100,000 rate in Connecticut" - Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, April 13, 1999

12. I asked my attorney, Jonathan Emord - the number one regulatory law specialist in the United States - if I might incur any legal problems with my assertion about the FDA. He responded, "Not atll. We can easily prove that in court."

13. "What's remarkable is that these extremes of weather are happening at such short intervals which suggests the climate is unbalanced. Last year in Germany, we were under water. Now we have one of the worst droughts in human memory," said Michael Knobelsdorf. -

www.planetark.org...

14. France's blistering heat wave has killed some 3,000 people in three weeks, health officials said on Thursday, describing the death rate as an epidemic.

www.washingtonpost.com...

www.silverprotects.com...

Informant: George Paxinos

www.AwakeningsEnergy.com...




Source: www.rumormillnews.com...



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

A credible scientist, or someone who thinks Katrina was the result of a Japanese gangster's desire to avenge Hiroshima?

[edit on 10-10-2006 by HowardRoark]



i don't even know who you are talking about...

Man not everyone thinks in terms of science there are other ways to perceive reality.

You seem to think that science is the only thing that is true in this reality and you act like anyone who's not into science is automaticaly a retard.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
So, if you are trying to inform someone about chemtrails and they ask you what are they spraying, and you say





So, if you are trying to inform someone about chemtrails and they ask you what are they spraying, and you say a scientific analysis then that could very well be wrong and make someone believe everything is ok in little bliss land but in reality they are being sprayed by chemicals.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by selfless

Originally posted by HowardRoark

A credible scientist, or someone who thinks Katrina was the result of a Japanese gangster's desire to avenge Hiroshima?

[edit on 10-10-2006 by HowardRoark]



i don't even know who you are talking about...


You’ve never heard of Scott Stevens of weatherwars and his Katrina Conspiracy?



Man not everyone thinks in terms of science there are other ways to perceive reality.


If I understand you right, you are saying that chemtrails have a metaphysical, almost mystical component.




You seem to think that science is the only thing that is true in this reality and you act like anyone who's not into science is automaticaly a retard.


“retard????!!!!!!” Please do not try to put such a hateful term into my mouth, thank you.

If it isn’t based on science, then what is it based on, faith? We’ve been down this path before.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by selfless
So, if you are trying to inform someone about chemtrails and they ask you what are they spraying, and you say a scientific analysis then that could very well be wrong and make someone believe everything is ok in little bliss land but in reality they are being sprayed by chemicals.


Then they say: What Chemicals?

What are its effects?

What concentrations are harmful?

What is its fate in the environment?

Unfortunately for you, not being able to answer these questions is only going to hurt your efforts to inform people about chemtrails.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:04 PM
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You seem to think that science is the only thing that is true in this reality and you act like anyone who's not into science is automaticaly a retard.


“retard????!!!!!!” Please do not try to put such a hateful term into my mouth, thank you.

If it isn’t based on science, then what is it based on, faith? We’ve been down this path before.



Yes you give out the impression that science is right above all well i got news flash for you, science is a concept just like anything else.

And yes we been down this road and i am not religious.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:05 PM
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Let’s brainstorm on how to stop chemtrails.

Let’s say you want to start a protest at the facility where the spray planes are based from.

Where do you go?



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by selfless
So, if you are trying to inform someone about chemtrails and they ask you what are they spraying, and you say a scientific analysis then that could very well be wrong and make someone believe everything is ok in little bliss land but in reality they are being sprayed by chemicals.


Then they say: What Chemicals?

What are its effects?

What concentrations are harmful?

What is its fate in the environment?

Unfortunately for you, not being able to answer these questions is only going to hurt your efforts to inform people about chemtrails.





Well by making more people aware is the way to get to the bottom of it.

And btw, your google search links does not hold the answers either.

No one knows for sure why they are doing it.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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Howard you are indeed a wolf in sheeps clothing.

You have no intentions to help only mock and disprove.

Well i am really sick of it.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Howard,

You insulted me in u2u and you continiue to do so, i tried to be friendly but it didn't work you want to argue for the sake of arguing well i am putting you on ignore now you can argue with your own self.

Good bye.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by darkbluesky
This link might be a good rally point for your cause.

www.ctbusters.com...

[edit on 10/10/2006 by darkbluesky]


Have you any experience with this stuff? I've come across this site before and wondered if it worked. There is a growing community of people talking about the argone energy stuff, maybe somebody should make a thread?

It would be neat to film some of these devices acting on a chemtrail thread and throw it on youtube or something like that and see people's reactions.

How many chemtrail vids are on youtube etc? hmm gotta look.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:51 PM
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by Selfless There are other ways to percieve reality




By HowardRoark If I understand you right, you are saying Chem Trails have a metaphysical, almost mystical component


C'mon Howard, what kind of BS is that. Because a person suggests there are other ways of percieving reality he is certainly not saying that Chemtrails have a "Mystical, almost Metaphysical component" These kind of statements make me disregard anything you have to say. Science an Metaphysicics aren't the only means to percieve something. You try so hard to make Selfless look stupid. My question is why have the trolls came out in such force to railroad this thread? Your jobs aren't at stake, are they? I can percieve something based on my experience and knowledge and it is neither scientific, metaphysical, or mystical.

I feel the need to defend this thread because there have been so many come out to ridicule those of us who are looking for answers.

There have been so many people who have come out in the last 24 hours and added to this thread with links that may provide answers. As for myself I will take some time and explore some of these links that appear to provide some information that has been taken to the next level, (after brainstorming) and see if in fact there is something ominous going on. Maybe the motive is more of a weather control, or something of the like. Whatever it is it just doesn't seem normal to me based on past observation. There are so many people that are sick and have unexplained ailments, alot of times young people with symptoms that used to be "old age" type of health issues. I personally have alot of distrust in the powers that be. Those who have the capability to cause harm to the population aren't above doing so, based on history. I mean after all, have a blanket, dear indian friend, don't mind the smallpox.........

Anyway, when something seems to be increasing in occurance and seems to be outside the normal mode of operandi, then it deserves to be "brainstormed" if a group of people on ATS so decide to do so.

With this in mind I can only speculate on why the trolls were allowed to disrupt this as they did, but again, I am impressed with the coming forth of some concerned members who went to some extensive trouble to identify links and resources to further allow the exploration of this subject. I am glad we stood together to the point that enough of you showed enough interest to provide places to go to continue the research. This after all, is what Selfless desired all along.

In response to a member who asked me earlier about the helicopter activity, I can only say that they were flying low and slow and I thought one of them was going to land, but instead moved out of my site range. The other two just seemed to be checking out the area or something. Again, they moved slowly and were flying lower that usual. The jets I watched had the wings at the back end of the plane and the wings were short and close to the body. No markings that I could see. They also crisscrossed there trails in a couple of cases. The oddest part is that three could be visible at the same time, but not flying in formation or anything to suggest training tactics.

Is it common to have the dual exhaust with jets?



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 05:07 PM
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Thank you interested always for your moral support and for understanding this was a brainstorm hehe.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 05:10 PM
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i should have ignored all the debunkers from the start i would have saved a lot of time.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 06:09 PM
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Howard himself pointed out something I'd missed and that was:



Howard said, "What are you talking about? I can clearly see the Air Force insignia on the underside of the right wing."


He's right. And I followed his link to the Boeing site with pics of the E-6 Tacamo. The craft flying overhead and dispersing these "chemtrails" appear completely white (or more recently, blue, mixing right in with the bright blue sky - but why try to camoflage? It looks like they're trying really hard to blend in), and don't appear to have any visible insignias. I stand corrected. This would explain WHO is spraying these things overhead, which really further causes one to pause.

I did find a link though where the plane spraying the chemtrail appears as just two orbs. Our own technology used against us...tsk tsk tsk...

This means the military is responsible for spraying over our heads. Of course it is. If anyone were going to recklessly handle chemicals at the American public's expense it WOULD be the military...

Here's a photo of another plane spraying a stream that is NOT from the engine or dumping fuel. And whoops! Here are a couple of regular, commercial aircraft spraying "contrails" and nearly colliding in midair (this is clearly a typical flight pattern).

And did this "contrail" and this "contrail" just take a cr*p a couple of times for no reason? I don't think so.

Here is a link to the U.S. code that outlines to our military (notice I didn't say health or medical organizations) what is required to experiment on human test subjects. It amounts to 30 days notice and trhe request in writing. Well that's good. I'd hate to think I'd be the unwitting subject of an experiment without at least 30 days notice (the code of course does not specifically state as to whether or not the test "subject" needs to be notified - or asked - if they want to be tested on, but I'm sure our military will make sure they get, you know, my written consent first).

Here is an excellent site called this-must-stop.com everyone should check out. And here is a great site that offers a consolidated list of chemtrail research sites and other great resources.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by OnTheDeck
Here's a photo of another plane spraying a stream that is NOT from the engine or dumping fuel.


The plane is dumping something alright.


That is from the toilet and galley sink drain.

Some more examples:


www.airliners.net...

www.airliners.net...

www.airliners.net...



Originally posted by OnTheDeck
And whoops! Here are a couple of regular, commercial aircraft spraying "contrails" and nearly colliding in midair (this is clearly a typical flight pattern).


Thank you for a great example of how two planes can appear to be at the same altitude, yet they are in fact far apart.

Here are some similar shots:

www.airliners.net...

www.airliners.net...

www.airliners.net...

www.airliners.net...



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 08:56 PM
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selfless you are a good person, and I would be willing to stand beside a good person than someone like Howard. This guy and his ilk will make this their main focus until the thread is ruined and you give up. This is why I was so disappointed when Sceptic Overlord came and and gave the green light to trash this thread. I was going to quit ATS, but darn it their are still people in the burning building, and I cannot leave you behind.


Howard, the reason that scientists and researchers have not come foreward on this is because of the stigma involved. There has been such a bad reputation put on this idea from people that are either hired or do not have much imagination to put this subject into a trickbag that has become very taboo.

How do you get serious researchers to look at this when it is a taboo even on a website like ATS? The first one to do so would be labled a nut and would never get funding, or a job in their field again. The arguements you make or basic Junior high school weather class. Most of us understand this, but for some reason you seem to think we are confusing the two.

I do know one thing. For some reason the spraying has either slowed way down, or they are just doing it at night or during heavy cloud cover. I have eye witnessed very strange phenomenom in relation to chemtrail operations. One day back when I was selling cars for a living, we (the sales force) were doing are morning walk of the car lot (we did this to make sure the cars were ready for business) we found that the entire lot, end to end was covered in what we thought was spider webs. That was of course the mind trying to make logic out of something completely illogical. It is one of the mysteries of my life, becuse they were not there the night before and it was like some cheap horror movie special effects team came in the iddle of the night and covered all 400 cars. This was the same summer I saw the sky change and noticed chemtrails. We also get swamped with difficulty breathing runs on the rescue rigs after spray days on the fire Dept. This is not imagined, I do not imagine things, I am a very good Firefighter/medic and take everything from a logical sceptical view. I have to, my job is very dangerous and people depend on me more that they depend on anyone else.

Something is wrong, this gut feeling tells me this chemtrail phenomenon is very important and we need to pay special attention to it. I fear we will not though because of the "tin hat" stigma, until it is of course too late.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:34 PM
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I believe your post shows a part of why there is such a large divide between the two schools of thought. I'm just using this post as an example, but the whole thread reflects these ideas.


Originally posted by LoneGunManI have eye witnessed very strange phenomenom in relation to chemtrail operations. One day back when I was selling cars for a living, we (the sales force) were doing are morning walk of the car lot (we did this to make sure the cars were ready for business) we found that the entire lot, end to end was covered in what we thought was spider webs.


1. How do you know this phenomenom is related to "chemtrail operations"? Did you see the "webs" coming out of aircraft? Did you see or hear any aircraft? If you didn't see the actual spraying of the material or have other evidence, you are assuming it's related. You don't know it's related, as your statement implies.

This thread is full of assumptions such as this, without any evidence to back it up, other than "I just know it".

2. Was any study done on the material? Once again, without evidence it's just an anecdote. Maybe it was just spiderwebs. It is well known that the sky can be literally full of floating webs that are often mistaken for something else.

Certified evidence trumps anecdote every time.


You do make a good point about the stigma of the field. It has been a hallmark of science that anything considered "out there" is very slow to be studied until some researcher is brave enough to be ridiculed before proving it valid.

But it seems even the non-scientists could avoid making some of the claims about chemtrails and contrails that I've seen. A little easily done research could prevent some of the provably untrue claims about contrails being made. More science and less "I just know it" might make the divide at least a little smaller.

Just my.02



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