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Chemtrails brainstorm.

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posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by selfless
Howard you can't tell much from the bottom of that photo.


Whatever.

What about the information I provided to you on ISSRs?

Do you have any questions on that?

Do you understand what supersaturation is?

If you have no questions, or comments, then I will assume that you read it and understood it.

What other questions do you have about contrail behavior?




posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Not necessarily. Both planes would need to be identical, not only would they need to have the same engines, but they would have to be identical in terms of tuning and performance.


Yes, good point.

Still, it'd be a start. I'm just playing devil's advocate and trying to think of something which might act as supportive evidence. So far the chemtrail believers don't seem to have come up with anything .....


had you used the search function you would see that there are a lot of threads about proving things. This thread however was a brainstorm but it obviously failed due to the arguing.

This thread should be closed it serves no more purpose.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by selfless
Howard you can't tell much from the bottom of that photo.


Whatever.

What about the information I provided to you on ISSRs?

Do you have any questions on that?

Do you understand what supersaturation is?

If you have no questions, or comments, then I will assume that you read it and understood it.

What other questions do you have about contrail behavior?





I have no requests to you howard, i can use the search function to view evidence on the previous debunking threads.

Thank you.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by snoopyuk
even if you take into account the rise in the number of aircraft flying compared with say ten years ago.....
do you not find it strange that sights like that of your picture are now common place and that before 10 years ago it wasn't a commonplace sight and contrails didn't hang around for hours and spread out into big sheets of cloud.

is it poss. that the atmosphere has changed and that is why they now behave like they do ? i.e.. in composition or temps or poss. pollution.

many thanks

snoopyuk


Well you not only have to account for the increased commercial aviation traffic (both freight and passenger), but you also have to look at the change in the airline fleets. It turns out that modern high bypass engines are not only more fuel efficient, but they are better at producing long lasting contrails.

That is not to say that there have not been any major changes to the atmosphere over the last 10 years, that is certainly possible.

There are a number of research programs out there by various groups that are studying the atmosphere, particularly the role of the atmosphere in climate change.

Certainly some one involved in one of those programs would have noticed “Chemtrails” by now.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:43 AM
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Another element that draws people to this phenomena is that there are so many questions. Too many questions. And the response has been silence. These are not normal contrails. The official response is that they are "contrails", or there is no response at all. Stonewalling does not a complacent public make.

Here's a good question (one among thousands). In my attached photo why do these "contrails" start at the same spot in the sky as if turned on by a switch? Our simple observations are not scientifically valid, but they pose basic questions that we want answers to...



I watched these four planes (and several other aircraft) create these trails. I can't understand, either, why the aircraft on the left, left behind two, contained trails that remained, and the three others left a single trail that spread out more...

Just curious...



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:44 AM
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Some of those older threads are, well older. There are new studies and new data out there that we can discuss, if you like.

You still haven’t indicated whether my post on ISSRs answered your questions about observed contrail behavior.

You seem to be avoiding that.


[edit on 10-10-2006 by HowardRoark]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by OnTheDeck
In my attached photo why do these "contrails" start at the same spot in the sky as if turned on by a switch?


Did you miss my post on ISSRs on the previous page?



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
Some of those older threads are, well older. There are new studies and new data out there that we can discuss, if you like.

You still haven’t indicated weather my post on ISSRs answered your questions about observed contrail behavior.

You seem to be avoiding that.


Yes you got it right on the button i am indeed avoiding that because i have been avoiding all of you who came to me and presented me with these scientific analysis simply because this thread was never meant to be a debate, i can very well do my own research i don't need you to tell me what to think ok?



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 11:00 AM
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I’m just curious: were you aware of the concept of ice supersaturated regions before I brought it up?

If not, then I helped you with your research, didn't I?

If you had, well then what led you to that information? Not the chemtrail sites on the internet, certainly.



[edit on 10-10-2006 by HowardRoark]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 11:06 AM
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I am not here to make you believe anything, i am not here to win any arguments.

I simply wanted to do a brainstorm and no matter how much i repeat that it seems no one will take it into account.

For all of you who comes on here in hope that you can debate with me you are wrong if i wanted to debate i would go to the debate forum or go in a thread that encourages that behaviour.

I do not force my views on you i don't want you to force your view on me it's that simple.

Please let there be peace now this is all so useless.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 11:12 AM
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I would just like to thank the people who sent me ideas in u2u and on this thread somewhere in the beginning of it.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by snoopyuk
even if you take into account the rise in the number of aircraft flying compared with say ten years ago.....
do you not find it strange that sights like that of your picture are now common place and that before 10 years ago it wasn't a commonplace sight and contrails didn't hang around for hours and spread out into big sheets of cloud.

is it poss. that the atmosphere has changed and that is why they now behave like they do ? i.e.. in composition or temps or poss. pollution.

many thanks

snoopyuk


Well you not only have to account for the increased commercial aviation traffic (both freight and passenger), but you also have to look at the change in the airline fleets. It turns out that modern high bypass engines are not only more fuel efficient, but they are better at producing long lasting contrails.

That is not to say that there have not been any major changes to the atmosphere over the last 10 years, that is certainly possible.

There are a number of research programs out there by various groups that are studying the atmosphere, particularly the role of the atmosphere in climate change.

Certainly some one involved in one of those programs would have noticed “Chemtrails” by now.



thanks for the civil reply Howard...hopefully we can bring a bit of the `sensible` tone back to this thread......it seems to be getting a little #itchy

many thanks

snoopyuk



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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here is a link to a site with a 3d sky camera:

it shows lots of trails and haze from trails

www.spookyworld.co.uk...

(dial-up users beware !! 4mb quicktime movie )

snoopyuk



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:07 PM
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You're right, selfless, you asked for assistance/ideas on how to "stop chemtrails" and how to "get information out" on chemtrails.

Stopping chemtrail activity I will say right now is probably an impossible task. This is a project that extends around the planet. You just don't write your congressman and get something like this stopped. Of course that shouldn't stop anyone from trying, it's just my opinion.

Your other suggestion of getting information out is important. I love bringing awareness to projects and information that our government and our public institutions want kept secret or quiet - esp. with no professed reason (not even national security). And even more so love bringing awareness where there is stonewalling and denial where the public has a legitimate right and reason to know.

ATS is a huge step. I've said in other threads (including, suggestions regarding chemtrails specifically in one ATS thread entitled "Fake Contrails" ), people need to go through the pages of threads, pull out the factual, verifiable information provided and categorize it on a single reference website. Us discussing the matter here - and not letting it die - is another way to get information out. I discuss it (chemtrails) with friends. Making people aware and asking them questions is one way. The subject of chemtrails will not go away until the chemtrails stop. And we need to keep bringing attention to it, before generation after generation grows up thinking they are normal. They are not normal, and could very well be an unhealthy addition to our atmosphere...

So there, keep talking, inject it into everyday social intercourse to get people curious, encourage websites like ATS. The information on ATS and similar sites, and not just on chemtrails, needs to get out to reach the broadest possible audience. I am formulating a way myself of creating another site to categorize all of this information and probably will...These things start right here with us. Alex Jones, Davide Icke, ATS, Educate-yourself.org, etc., have started the movement/momentum. It just needs more encouragement...

I wanted to say to HowardRoark, my man, you are in love with ice supersaturation. I think you've supersaturated yourself over that theory. You sound like NASA - every anomaly in space is an ice crsytal or a foil ring. NASA laughs off any notion of ufos by repeating their pat "ice crystal" response - without taking into regard some of these ice crystals travel faster than any of our known craft, and turn at 90 degree angles, away from the Earth's surface, and without an observable outside force acting on them (i.e., these objects are intelligently controlled and self-propelled).

You also sound like a broken record. It's like repeating the theory behind hot air balloons in response to assertions of ufos. Yes hot air balloons exist, and yes some sightings can be attributed to hot air balloons, but the observation that "hot air balloons exist, therefore ufos do not" is like a false syllogism. It provides a possible explanation why an occurrence might be explained, but it does not take into account every instance of this phenomena. Yes, I"m sure supersaturation exists, and it may account for some of the observed phenomena, but I doubt that the photo below shows ice supersaturation.



Also, for selfless' cause, and to lend some further credibility tot the cause, here is a link with names and locations of professional individuals fighting chemtrail activity. You'll have to continue research, including on the facts asserted at the link, yourself. Here is a link to a meteorologist who knows what is happening is not natural and has dedicated himself to getting this information out.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:18 PM
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Thank you OnTheDeck



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by OnTheDeck
I doubt that the photo below shows ice supersaturation.




You are right, it is a Boeing E-6 TACAMO doing a fuel dump.


[edit on 10-10-2006 by HowardRoark]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:31 PM
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Selfless...
did you check the 3d cam link ???

is this the type of skies you were talking about ?


thanks
snoopyuk



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by OnTheDeck Here is a link to a meteorologist who knows what is happening is not natural and has dedicated himself to getting this information out.


Is that the same guy that claimed that Katrina was “steered” into New Orleans by Japanese gangsters in revenge for the Hiroshima bombing?



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by snoopyuk
Selfless...
did you check the 3d cam link ???

is this the type of skies you were talking about ?


thanks
snoopyuk



About that,

Do you have that video in a wmp format? i don't have quicktime and i have a 56k.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:50 PM
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I dont believe that "chem trails" exist, but I find some of the criss crossing con-trail patterns interesting. If I had to come up with some kind of guess as to what they are, I'd say they are no more than a cloud forming program for weather modification.

To all the GW activists, I'd suggest its a way to cut down on solar heating of the earth's surface




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