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Question: What exactly is wrong with Zionism?

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posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 04:42 PM
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I have posted on a number of conspiracy boards and all of them, this one to a lesser degree, seems to have a very anti-Zionist atttude about them. Now, I am going to give my understanding of the term and you tell me what is so bad about it.

Zionism defined as I understand it.

Zionism- the desire of both christians and Jews to integrate Jews back into Israel.

Now, let me ask. What is so bad about that? I mean, I know that supposedly once every single Jew is back in Israel the messiah is to return and all, but beyond that, I don't quite understand what the beef is. I know a lot of people say that Zionism is the belief of the return of the Jews to Israel at any cost. Well, that is their home.

I just want someone to point out where I am wrong here. Either I am failing to "see" something or anti-Zionists are just anti-Semitic, which most of them vehemently deny.




posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 04:55 PM
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Zionism has been around since before the creation of Israel. It is a political doctrine in support of a homeland for Jews. Now that Israel was created in the Middle East, it is synonymous with support for Israel.

People don't agree with the actions of Israel. As well, they are suspicious of Jews in the world at large because they feel their actions are done to expand the power of Israel.

Thus, to be anti-Zionist is to express a lack of support for the Israeli state.

That's my understanding at least, and I don't undersand what's so bad about not supporting the actions of Israel and the effects of their movement. There are even a lot of Jews who oppose Zionism.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Zionism- the desire of both christians and Jews to integrate Jews back into Israel.


I highly doubt this statement because the Jewish elites that founded or funded or assisted Zionism in the past didn't go to Israel nor show any interest in doing so. I see the only purpose of Israel existing is for most Jews to go there but that is not happening either.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
There are even a lot of Jews who oppose Zionism.


Yeah,I know. That's what I don't understand. You would think that Jews would support a Jewish state,wouldn't you? I mean, unless Zionists have alterior motives, which seems to be what most anti-zionists suggest.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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The problem with Zionism is that men are trying to make something that God has designed - and they are building it with things they consider valuable, such as real estate and financial holdings.

And also - no one KNOWS where Zion is - it has not yet been declared. Israel is not the name of a country or a plot of land - it is the name of people - first a person but now a people.

Those that kill to obtain God's so-called authority are not seeking after a God who is ALIVE but rather have confused God with one of His angels - the angel of death.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 08:45 PM
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Zionism defined as I understand it.



Zionism- the desire of both christians and Jews to integrate Jews back into Israel


I believe zionism is more radical[i/] than what you first see in fact alot more.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Zionism- the desire of both christians and Jews to integrate Jews back into Israel.

Now, let me ask. What is so bad about that? I mean, I know that supposedly once every single Jew is back in Israel the messiah is to return and all, but beyond that, I don't quite understand what the beef is. I know a lot of people say that Zionism is the belief of the return of the Jews to Israel at any cost. Well, that is their home.


Herd 'em up and move 'em out.


The total area under Israeli control — including the military-controlled and Palestinian-governed territory of the West Bank — is 28,023 km² or 10,820 mi² (~1% water).

en.wikipedia.org...


That's a whole bunch of jews in one very small spot. Can't miss 'em. They must really like thier homeland to wanna go thier so bad.


I just don't understand why some of them are resisting relocation.


[edit on 7-10-2006 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Jamuhn
There are even a lot of Jews who oppose Zionism.


Yeah,I know. That's what I don't understand. You would think that Jews would support a Jewish state,wouldn't you? I mean, unless Zionists have alterior motives, which seems to be what most anti-zionists suggest.


O.k. from a Jewish perspective, check this out...
www.nkusa.org...
Go immediately to the about us and they have plenty to say about zionism, what it is and their stance against it.

Heres another.
www.jewsagainstzionism.com...
Take your time and read all they have, they also explain how it was zionism responsible for the holocaust, that it could have been prevented, but they allowed it to happen anyhow...
www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

Now for a Christian standpoint:
The pharisees wanted a king on earth, and so Jesus didnt fit it (this is the Christian teaching)
so they did not accept him.

Well look at the fundamentalist, evangelical Christians today...they vote and put leaders into the white house that are not any more Christian then Satan would be in their religion. (look at the Rebpublican Foley dude in congress, and you know this goes all the way up.)
They believe they can make a difference on this earth through politics...they believe the same mistake that they claim the Jews made with Jesus...in that they did not recognize Jesus because he did not take over the Romans, but he was trying to prepare a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly. Most Christians have been hood winked by the anti-christ...understandable as the antichrist can "decieve even the elect if it were possible"
This attitude is Zionist...they are the kingdom on earth, enslave the mass people, through torturing "our own kind". Black magic, sorcerers, masters of manipulation. Have I said enough. :-)

Again, I am not religious as most would call it...this is showing the issue as to your request, and showing some of the inherent flaws in the modern Christian theology base on their own teachings.

So you have it from both angles now...Zionism is not Jewish and not Christian...it is, if there is actually such a thing, evil, and controlling.

Peace

Dalen

[edit on 8-10-2006 by dAlen]



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by denythestatusquo
I highly doubt this statement because the Jewish elites that founded or funded or assisted Zionism in the past didn't go to Israel nor show any interest in doing so. I see the only purpose of Israel existing is for most Jews to go there but that is not happening either.



THe purpose is so they can have an excuse to kill of some "real jews", i.e. the palestenians in Gaza, and get away with a holocaust while everyone looks at syria and Iran.
Check out the conditions there...the leaders of Hamas are zionist, they cannot be palestenians as they would be suffering with the people. There part of the sick game.
Check out my above link to jewsagainstzionism where it shows what they did (the zionist) during world war 2. THey were responsible for the holocaust.

About palestenians being real jews...well most jews know that there is the mixed multitude, so you cant be sure that ariel sharon, perez, etc are even Jewish.
In fact there was a debate across some jewish boards and even in yeshiva about ariel sharon not being jewish because of his mother, and perhaps fullfilling the prophesy of the shephard.

Christians dont understand Judaism, they understand Zionism, even if they wanted to understand the rabbi would be reluctant to tell them the bits of info that would help clear things up.
Such as that Jews have 2 messiahs...Messiah ben Yosef and Messiah ben David.

Info comes to those who seek though.

Peace

Dalen



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 02:46 AM
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What is wrong with any faction that hides behind the robes of their proclaimed faith in the pursuit of power and wealth?



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree

What is wrong with any faction that hides behind the robes of their proclaimed faith in the pursuit of power and wealth?



One thing that nothing can make right aside from it's eradication:

deception

A lie will NEVER stand.

For a time, yes - but truth is beyond time and THAT is the reality.

Peace brothers!



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
And also - no one KNOWS where Zion is - it has not yet been declared. Israel is not the name of a country or a plot of land - it is the name of people - first a person but now a people.

Those that kill to obtain God's so-called authority are not seeking after a God who is ALIVE but rather have confused God with one of His angels - the angel of death.


Very true. Israel originally started with Abraham and his descendents. What a lot of people do not understand is that the Jews and Muslims have been fighting since the beginning of time. Although, technically the Islam didn't come into existence until the ninth century, I believe,
most of the conflict that existed was between those who would become Muslim and the Jews.



[edit on 8-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
What a lot of people do not understand is that the Jews and Muslims have been fighting since the beginning of time. Although, technically the Islam didn't come into existence until the ninth century, I believe,
most of the conflict that existed was between those who would become Muslim and the Jews.


Actually, this would also include the people who would become the Christians, seeing as the Christians were being made up of predominantly Gentiles (non-Jews).



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn

Actually, this would also include the people who would become the Christians, seeing as the Christians were being made up of predominantly Gentiles (non-Jews).


Well, certainly. What a lot of people do not want to admit is that Christianity proper is an outgrowth of Judaism. Shhhhh!! Don't say that too loudly.....Someone may be offended.


[edit on 8-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 12:27 AM
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en.wikipedia.org...

I guess 90% off jews living today are descendents of Khazars. If U read the whole wiki-link you know what I mean.
So that does it for the jews going back to their homecountry. If they wanted that they would go back to turkey or something...

Im just wondering...



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I have posted on a number of conspiracy boards and all of them, this one to a lesser degree, seems to have a very anti-Zionist atttude about them. Now, I am going to give my understanding of the term and you tell me what is so bad about it.

Zionism defined as I understand it.

Zionism- the desire of both christians and Jews to integrate Jews back into Israel.

Now, let me ask. What is so bad about that? I mean, I know that supposedly once every single Jew is back in Israel the messiah is to return and all, but beyond that, I don't quite understand what the beef is. I know a lot of people say that Zionism is the belief of the return of the Jews to Israel at any cost. Well, that is their home.

I just want someone to point out where I am wrong here. Either I am failing to "see" something or anti-Zionists are just anti-Semitic, which most of them vehemently deny.


Ummm, because its not for the right reasons...

They believe that the messiah will come back when the jews return 'home' ..
so they're killing people to have the jews returned.. they murdered thousands of muslims in Russia to get the jews from russia back to israel.. thats some crazy crap killing people to move people back somewhere so a messiah will come back.. talk about fairy tales... allocate or compartmentalize god much? .. jesus would be spinning in his grave... if people let him rest in it..



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 02:24 AM
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I was always under the impression that the muslims are the fanatics...its seems iv been decived....

The religious right of ALL religions are the ones that are crazy in general.
My friend went to Israel for a Karate championship and he said the people were really nice there, but the rules they have are crazy, his father being a Masadonian(spelling?)/Athiest/non-jew, wasnt alowed to go on pblic transportation, thats preaty full on if you ask me.






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