Do we exist?

Originally posted by NoSuchAgency
''I think, therefor I exist" I have heard this quote quite a number of times in my life, but I still don't know who said it. Could someone tell me please?

Look at the post just above yours. It's a worthy read.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 2006/10/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by NoSuchAgency
A few days ago, I was in school reading an article in one of my study books about what there was before the 'big bang' and even before the existing of the universe..

It wasn't exactly entirely nothing. Before the big bang, all matter currently present in the universe had been compressed into the size of a marble. What's strange is that whenever a black hole occurs, it's due to the planetary body imploding due to its inability to support its own weight and mass. Considering how prior to the big bang, everything was massed together in an area so small, it makes me wonder why the big bang exploded rather than imploded. Who knows, maybe the universe really did implode and what we see it as today is really inside out.

[edit on 7-10-2006 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by DJMessiah
It wasn't exactly entirely nothing. Before the big bang, all matter currently present in the universe had been compressed into the size of a marble.

I dont care how many doctors or scientists may back you up on that statement, I will never believe it. It is an absurd notion that all the matter in the Universe would fit into a marble. BULL-PHOOEY.
Can anybody even remotely prove what you claim?
Even if all the matter in the Universe was in a marble, the question would still remain of where did all the matter come from? Not to mention who put it into a marble?
Think for yourself rather than repeating some illogical, unprovable theory.
Evolution is a hoax that falls apart almost as fast as the 911 hoax.

OP you imagined the Universe empty, that is a deep thing to think about my friend. I have been there, and the conclusion I came to was that logically, NOTHING should exist at all, but somehow it does.
Yes, we exist.
Yes, God exists.
It is because God exists that we exist.

If this thread was in skunkworks or paranormal I would tell you exactly what I think we are..... But in this forum I won't.

11Bravo,

Actually, I think that according to Big Bang theory, everything in the universe was compressed into a gravitational singularity that was infinitly small--way smaller than a marble.

One way to understand that, and I'm not saying that it's true or that I can fully comprehend it, is to understand just how much space is between all the particles that make up the universe.

If you buy into the string theories, and I'm not saying that I do, particles are not even particles as we are conditioned to understand them, but are vibrating "strings."

Anyway you look at it, most of the universe is space and/or something else we can not even perceive, but we can verify by its interaction with what we can see.

I believe in God, but I see no contradiction in contemplating the scientific theories of how it all come about. "And God said...," is just a bit too minimalist for me.

Here's an interesting book that explains God in cosmic terms. I'm not saying it's your cup of tea, but it might give you a different view of reality.

www.urantia.org...



[edit on 2006/10/7 by GradyPhilpott]

[edit on 2006/10/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Here is a good example...u see the internet has information, and other things..but does it really exist???? It only exists if we use it? The internet is not matter, but its out there!! Oh never mind...i sont know where im going with with this...try to continue this new theiry or nothing is something, which is everything...

oh what about this.....what if all the stuff we see is Nothing!! Its out there but its nothing!! No one cares if it exists, it just effects us cuz we have brains!! ahh nvm I guess I suck at thieris...lol

When you query an existance before the Big Bang, I assume you are talking about 3 dimensional existance and therefore time. We simple humans can't grasp other dimensions and the non existance of time in them. I forward that its possible that the big bang so eloquently portrayed by emminent theorist's may have been a starting point for matter to manifest in low vibrations as a test tube/school for simple entities to attain through growth (multi generational learning) ascention to the higher realms of dimensions and that this is the evolution that Darwin inadvertantly stumbled onto with his Atheistic testiment "The Origin of the Species". Time before the establishment of the Multiverse is irrelevent, only the progression of your soul's experience in it from then is! (relevent).

"life is a fight against nothingness"
so true its scary

The question shouldn't be do we exist but rather , what exactly is existance. Is existance experiencing the world through your senses? If the answer to that question is yes then the answer to the first question would also be yes. I believe our experiences are real but the world in which they happen may not be. It's real to us but that's only because our brains tell us that it's real.

You may also question why we're here and i believe we're here to learn , so we can make progress and reach higher states of thinking and being. Are our personas real? Not anymore than characters in a video game.

In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then beleive them to be true.

"It's happened before - it will happen again"

Here's the really strange part: There is evidence that our universe is contracting (VVVERRRYYY slowly of course). But it could mean that the universe will contract and cause another 'big bang'. Then what would happen after that? Well then we would expand, just like we think we did in the present universe model, then contract again...and so on..and so on....

Kinda like caught in a big infinite 'verse loop. So all matter will be destroyed in an instant and rearranged, redistributed in the expansion phase, and life will start again, and then be destroyed and reborn again-Yikes!




[edit on 8-10-2006 by im_not_okay]

Do I exist?

Way back when, during my high school days, the teacher in our psychology class asked us all that very same question. More precisely, he asked the class to prove to him that we exist. I told him I'd bring in my proof the next day.

The next day, I showed him the bank book for my auto-loan. He accepted that as proof that the bank had enough confidence in my existance to loan me some money!


[edit on 8-10-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by im_not_okay
"It's happened before - it will happen again"

Kinda like caught in a big infinite 'verse loop. So all matter will be destroyed in an instant and rearranged, redistributed in the expansion phase, and life will start again, and then be destroyed and reborn again-Yikes!




[edit on 8-10-2006 by im_not_okay]

This sounds plausible but can you link us to an article or something of that sort please? I'd like to read more about it , not saying you're wrong or anything like that. Thanks

Originally posted by NoSuchAgency

What if the universe itself is a simulation?

I have thought about that too, it would be really weird if we were to find out that we're just a (computer?) simulation. But I think it's a bit too far fetched... I mean, would our characters we have in video games like the sims also have their own mind and thoughts? I really don't think so.

Would the sims have their own existence? That's a different kind of simulation scenario, single timeline, that, and it's just some code that some geek came up with to entertain us, right?

What if the existence running the sim considers us "just some code" in the same way? Suppose all our rich sensory input, and creative output is constrained in our 3 dimesional matrix, we could never begin to comprehend fully other dimensions, just as the sims could never comprehend the reality that they are a simulation also.

We'd still exist, only we'd exist in a simulation, and in order to have a simulation, there must be a "real" existence somewhere. So, do you exist in reality? Maybe, maybe not. Do "we" exist even though you may be a sim? Yeah, because someone has to create the simulation, right? Only the real plane of existence's beings would know and the rest would be just like the sims, guided by (genetic? fractal?) code.

The only proof i have that i exist is my belief in existence.

i came across one interesting article:

From Non-Being to Being

Originally posted by DezertSkies
What if the existence running the sim considers us "just some code" in the same way? Suppose all our rich sensory input, and creative output is constrained in our 3 dimesional matrix, we could never begin to comprehend fully other dimensions, just as the sims could never comprehend the reality that they are a simulation also.

Well, the Sims aren't programmed with enough AI code to try imagining beyond themselves, but we human beings have been doing that ever since we gained sentience so long ago. There are biologists, physicists & brain scientists who are trying to find out if our "programming" all stems directly from the laws of physics & the way our DNA evolved to adapt us for survival.

A good book that describes it better than I could: Consilience: The Unity of KNowledge, by Edward O. Wilson.

Everything Exists within everything else. In a way we are not really here, but we exist within each others imagination. What would the world be like if everyone knew it was a dream? But you say i goto work everyday earn money, feel pain blah blah. Then reality is just our brains telling us what it is, Governments have been hiding it from the begining buy creating money to keep us occupied with material posessions, Tv to blank our creativity, Celebertys to make us care about "more important" peoples lives then our own. Think about it, What is life?

Just saw people talking about the Big bang so i wanted to add to it.

The Big Bang is a perfect example that we live in an infinite universe. If everything used to be the size of a marble couldnt it still be? I dont think there ever was a "bang" or explosion that released the universe from its marble size, becuase if everything used to be the size of a marble, How couldnt it still be the same size? Jesus said himself "Heaven is smaller then a mustard seed". We are on a marble surrounded by other marbles within another marble that is surrounded by other marbles that contain more marbles, And the conclusion is IT NEVER ENDS! becuase every marble is inside another marble. There never was a big bang thats a Lie to blind people from the obvious truth, that we live in Infinite.

Originally posted by Art0_Saar1
Jesus said himself "Heaven is smaller then a mustard seed". We are on a marble surrounded by other marbles within another marble that is surrounded by other marbles that contain more marbles

Maybe Jesus meant that heaven is intangible , as in it's a state of mind or it is enlightenment. As for the marble thing , you kind of lost me but i believe everything has a start and an end , well everything in this universe because this universe is governed by the law of time but maybe after it ends it just starts over like when you hit reset on your computer. As for other dimensions and universes , who knows? The topic here is a good topic but i dont think an answer will come anytime soon. This could go on until the end of time

Heres a theory iv thought about often. Look at every system in our world... its a cycle... there is no true begining persay... its like the age old question... what came first the chicken or the egg? maybe its much like the universe... it implodes and explodes... perhaps there is a god entity but maybe its on a different level outside of this cycle... an entity or even a race who has the ability to start something seemingly so large to us... but to it or them is nothing but a second thought... unforutnatley this is one of the age old questions we will most likely never trully have an answer to lol enjoy the thinking

Cheers

See if this helps it may put you on the right path or a least open a window in the mind LINK