Aren't you Americans extremely angry?

Originally posted by Origin Unknown
The fact we're sitting here at a computer discussing our dislikes of our leaders should spell out the differences to you. Half the planet would love to be in the position we are in, with the ability to criticise their leaders without reprisals.

Indeed, but the ability to critisize and our ability to enact any significant change are not synonymous. Not even close. This is OUR problem.

For all those who talk about Saddam's brutality, something to remember: he was our bad guy, we (or leadership) supported him, armed him, kept him in power. The way he treated his own people was an internal matter, nothing to be bothered about as long as the oil kept pumping.
The same thing continues today, where our leaders prop up and aid dictators for economic reasons to keep the corporate and banking paymasters happy.

Do they really care about freedom and democracy? Hell no! That's just an excuse for the masses to absorb and a cover for the backroom boys.

"So many people are so conditioned to believe the MSM,its truly amazing."

How do you know that, how do you know that people aren't looking at exactly the same information as you but drawing different conclusions!!!

You bang on about being "conditioned" and tell people to "wake up", you even quote Orwell in your signature and yet you want everyone to think like you!

Now THAT is truly amazing.

Exactlly right Britguy.These sorts of facts are routinely air brushed from our media.Like the fact that Rumsfeld help the North Koreans go nuclear,or sold precursor chemicals to Saddam.

Erm,origin unknown,i dont want everyone to think like me.I just want people to take a look at what is really going on.I dont think we get a fair picture from the big media companies.
Im sorry if you do.No offence.

Origin unknown,


I am sure that it was bad for them but in my view it's as bad for americans as well.
I dunno about you but if i were to look up from the sky and look down on america what i would see is people being controled like little parts of a machine that generates a whole machine, a system... that system spits out polution like crazy just to generate money and most of the reasons why it does is to provide us with a false reality of objects and concepts that distract us from being intouch with our inerselves. This method of control is ruining our planet it self and cannot go on.

That system right now has only one purpose that i can see, world domination.
You don't have to agree with me on this but it's what i see and it continiues to be so.

You are born conditioned to think certain ways about your existence and this grounds you and limits you into the idealogy that what you must do is work and provide but in reality we could exist with out having to be slaves... but they want us to think otherwize.

They want us to think that things would be worst with out their control but it's not true. They want us to need them but we don't. They want us to suck it in and we do.
They want us to not question them. They want us to believe everything they say.

Every facades of the system is covered to generate a good product (human).
Schools, Mental hospitals, Religions, Science, Money, Entertainment and many more.
They are all inplace to control our way of thinking and our way of perception.
It grounds our thinking to a physical plane of existence and nothing more because those who wake up from this conditioning do not conform to the system because... they know how unimportant it really is in the scheme of all things.


To my eyes there is nothing worst then a false reality created for the purpose of domination and control.

Think for your self and quetion them.



My statement is just my opinion do not take offense to it please.

who finds it ironic and symbolic that the reason why our nature is dying is because of money and yet we go and use tree's to make money...

Great thread and great responses.
Americans are an odd lot in reality. We have lived in a dream world for most of the last 100 years. America, as I see it today has been a test tube society. We have had more social engineering put upon us than any other nation except maybe Britain. Hollywood , MSM have done a number on the American mind through the years. There is a large segment of Americans who I believe are now incapable of seeing and understanding the truth. We have become so materialistcally driven that we've lost perspective as to what is truly important in society. Americans now only respond collectively when their wallets are impacted, and even then it's a slow reaction. Americans have always had a very myopic world view. That mindset, forged over time, has become more extreme to where if it doesn't affect 'me' directly it is dismissed. I spent the majority of my younger years overseas from Europe to Asia. I honestly feel as though it may have spared me 'the indoctrination'.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
Great thread and great responses.

Agree with you, enjoying to read all the diverse opinions

For all of you not having posted yet, please don't turn it into another flame topic. Much appreciated

Mdv2,


Yes, it's great to see a thread that's just about talking you know... not insulting the posters.

It should be like this always in my opinion.

Hell, yes i am angry!

Why was there so much confidence that Iraq had WMDs?

that part is obvious... as the former head of the CIA stated...
"we had the reciepts, so we knew he had them"

of course we had the reciepts, we sold them to him during the Iran contra scandal years.

It can hardly be considered the presidents fault, that Saddam saw the setup, and refused to play his part...

All Saddam had to do, was get rid of, and destroy the WMD's that we sold him (which he wasn't using anyway, since Iran and Iraq were no longer at war) and make Bush look like a bully...

I say this sarcastically, because Bush didn't want to know that the WMD's had been destroyed. He wanted a reason to reward his buddies in the MIC (military industrial complex) that had been such good buddies during his election campaign.
He knew going in, that WMD's would only be found, if Saddam hadn't covered his tracks well... and Bush didn't care.

We can't prove that part totally, but the evidence does point to a directed and intentional agenda to lie to the American people, to garner support for an Iraqi invasion that was already planned (for reasons having nothing to do with terrorism, or a threat to the USA.)

Originally posted by super70
We wage a war on terrorism, not a war on al-qeada alone. That means if you use terrorism on innocent people as a means of furthering your own idealogy than you are a target.

In that case we have alot more work to do. Saddam was by far not the only, or the worst tyrant in the world to terrorize his own people. There are many, many more out there. If anything, he should have been last on the list since he was firmly against Islamic fundamentalists in his country, not because he disagreed morally with them, but because it would be a challenge to his reign. Saddam saw himself, not Allah, as god there. Look how some governments treat their own in places like Africa, they make Saddam look like a pretty nice guy, and they allow terrorists to operate there. Sadly, for those people, there is really not much over there that interests us economically....

Im with you,top thread.I guess my rant before just shows i`m worried or even scared about our future.All of us,Brit, American,Israeli,Afghani,African.
I just wanted to state,i am not blaming the US government-its a joint effort,im not saying its any one countries fault.It is certainly not the fault of us the people that the powers wish to inflict a global dictatorship upon us.
Ask anyone in Iraq,Palestine,Etc who they blame and they will always say the governments of the west.They will say the American/British people are good and they help and support us.They will say they do not hate us.Most of them would not like to bomb us.Most would just like a peacefull existence,like us.
Everyone says about the German people pre WW2:why didn`t they stop the Nazis when they saw their intentions?
We are starting to find out that answer for ourselves,are we not?
In history we see that all power hungry,death loving,control freak leaders will market their horrific aims as Freedom and Democracy,while at the same time they commit genocide,torture and oppression on their own people and enemies alike.
Are we seeing a pattern yet?

Originally posted by super70
We wage a war on terrorism, not a war on al-qeada alone. That means if you use terrorism on innocent people as a means of furthering your own idealogy than you are a target. You would think all freedom loving people around the world would think the same thing, that 'dealing' with terrorists doesn't mean negotiating with them or appeasing them, it means killing them and setting up a world where we don't have to fear other men because of religious or political differences.

You have voted super70 for the Way Above Top Secret award.

This pretty much sums it up for me. Actually I was against the US invading Iraq because I knew it would end up like it has. The only thing that makes me mad is how some in our government try to use the excuse that they were decieved. If they are that stupid they need to be removed from office.

By the way, never trust information from polls. Too many cases are turning up of false results.

Originally posted by selfless
who finds it ironic and symbolic that the reason why our nature is dying is because of money and yet we go and use tree's to make money...

Well actually Money is made from Cotton or linen. Its not paper. At least here in America it is.




In response to the OP of this thread. Yes I'm angry and even with all this evidence being presented and information thats come forward that not only were there no WMD's but that there were no ties to Al Queda before we went in, yet Americans still sit there and blab on about how the Iraqi people needed to be free as though this is a good enough reason for us to be there since the first 2 reasons didn't pan out. These people are actually supporting the death of our men and women over there and all for something that doesn't concern us and should never concern us, at least not through War and not at an expense such as what we have been paying out. Sorry but you don't invade a country, depose its leader for one reason and then decide oh well we were wrong so its going to be for this reason instead since we are there anyway. Thats just a crock of crappola.


Pie

The thing that upsets me the most is the growing suspicion that when we get to the bottom of all this we will find that the real terrorists, the architects of 9/11 and the Anthrax Attacks, the ones that started the WOT, will turn out to be fascist, totalitarian elements that infiltrated Western Society from Nazi Germany following WWII.

Imo, this element has become entrenched in ultra-conservative, right-wing parties and global corporations, and now wields enough power through Western governments, global corporations, and the media to go about the psy-op propagandized indoctrination of entire generations of Western Civilization, grooming them to serve the State rather than be served by it, and to surrender their privacy and liberty rather than fight to protect it.

Above all, I hate being lied to and purposely misled for the benefit of the global fascist-elite.

At the end of the day, Western Civilization may very well end up saying to itself, "We have met the terrorists, and they are us."

By their fruits ye shall know them.

You very conveniently quote Bush, Blair, and Rumsfeld regarding Saddam's supposed WMDs, but you ignore the fact that Saddam had convinced the world that he held such weapons, including all those who now revel in their 20/20 hindsight.

Google Search

The fact is that Bush never lied about the War on Terror. It is only the selective memory of his opponents that sometimes make it appear so. Those of us who actually listened to the president remember quite vividly what he said and his rationale for a preemptive strike against Iraq.

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
Erm,origin unknown,i dont want everyone to think like me.I just want people to take a look at what is really going on.I dont think we get a fair picture from the big media companies.
Im sorry if you do.No offence.

No offence taken, Silcone Synapse. Perhaps i came across as a little brash.

Selfless,

I hear what your saying, and back in my college days i would probably have agreed with you. I'm afraid i don't share those opinions anymore though. The more i look into these subjects the more evidence i see to suggest that progress and money aren't the doomsday scenarios some people would like us to believe.

I was angry about the war when we first invaded, because I knew it had nothing to do WMD or spreading democracy. In fact the invasion was planned long before 9/11, and WMD's was just the excuse that they decided to sell to us. Now I am angry at how the war is being handled, and the lack of support from the Iraqis, which I expressed in this thread. I think we should finish the job now that it is started, but the strategy of "staying the course" is proven to be wrong everyday.

Funny,

I hear alot of you "OUTRAGED" at the political landscape of the country and the administration for the "lies". Well STOP BEING OUTRAGED AND START VOTING A DIFFERENT PARTY INTO OFFICE! We have been putting the "SAME" parties in office and look where it has gotten us? There are others to vote for just because they don't have a (R) or a (D) beside thier name doesn't make them any less able to do the job the present monkeys we have sitting up on capital hill molesting underage kids and driving around drunk all time are doing. I tell you what I hate personaly...CAR TAGS..YES car tags I hate the fact I spend a @$$ load of money to have a nice car and every year I get the Shaft on my tags! But I do the research and find the political monkeys who would try to get this stupid law tossed out. Thats how you use the system..We are all to buried up to our noses in what the media wants to present as issues to think about whats important to US!

[edit on 6-10-2006 by tsloan]