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HR 6166: The ultimate insult to Americans, the ultimate treason by our government

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posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 06:57 AM
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Non-US military personnel now have more rights than US citizens! This is the ultimate slap in the face by our government. Every soldier who has ever "fought the enemy for our freedoms" has been betrayed in a way that can hardly be described in words:

As I'm sure everyone is aware, according to the new American law HR 6166, the United States can call virtually anyone an "unlawful enemy combatant" and detain them indefinitely and/or kill them.

Jeff Rense and Alex Jones discussing HR 6166: prison planet mp3 [/url]


Please read HR 6166: frwebgate

I've studied the law and it says in Section 948d part b: "Military commissions under this chapter shall not have jurisdiction over lawful enemy combatants."

It turns out that to be exempt from HR 6166 (i.e. to be called a lawful enemy combatant and thus have any rights at all), you must be:


(A) a member of the regular forces of a State party engaged in hostilities against the United States;
(B) a member of a militia, volunteer
corps, or organized resistance movement belonging to a State party engaged in such hostilities, which are under responsible command, wear a
fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry their arms openly, and abide by the law of war; or
(C) a member of a regular armed force
who professes allegiance to a government engaged in such hostilities, but not recognized by the United States.


Section 948d part b (in full):

"Military commissions under this chapter shall not have jurisdiction over lawful enemy combatants. Lawful enemy combatants who violate the law of war are subject to chapter 47 of this title. Courts-martial established under that chapter shall have jurisdiction to try a lawful enemy combatant FOR ANY OFFENSE MADE PUNISHABLE BY THIS CHAPTER."


You can read the nice, humane, chapter 47 here: www.law.cornell.edu...

Meanwhile, EVERYONE (in the world) except non-US military personnel is subject to being detained, tortured, and/or killed for ANY REASON. According to HR 6166, you are presumed guilty when you are charged. You will get a trial, but, even if you're found innocent they can continue to detain you indefinitely.

Compare THAT to good old chapter 47:


(c) Before a vote is taken on the findings, the military judge or the president of a court-martial without a military judge shall, in the presence of the accused and counsel, instruct the members of the court as to the elements of the offense and charge them—
(1) that the accused must be presumed to be innocent until his guilt is established by legal and competent evidence beyond reasonable doubt;
(2) that in the case being considered, if there is a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the accused, the doubt must be resolved in favor of the accused and he must be acquitted;
(3) that, if there is a reasonable doubt as to the degree of guilt, the finding must be in a lower degree as to which there is no reasonable doubt; and
(4) that the burden of proof to establish the guilt of the accused beyond reasonable doubt is upon the United States.


Therefore, non-US military personnel have FAR FAR more rights (I've only scratched the surface here) than American citizens now.

My grandfather "fought for freedom" in World War 2, there are thousands of American soldiers "fighting for freedom" today. We must inform every US soldier about this, IT MAKES EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE DOING THE BIGGEST FARCE IN THE WORLD.

I've tried to understand why non-US soldiers have been chosen to be the only people in the world to have any rights. I can see an obvious reason why they did this. Can you imagine if it were legal for the USA to just detain and kill off any other country's standing army? The rest of the world would be forced to take action to protect itself, to protect their people against aggression by the USA. Otherwise, every other nation on the planet would be in the exact same situation that all of us individuals are in: no rights and no way to protect themselves.

Another key point about this is that governments look at their military people like chattel property. The government literally owns military people and I'm sure that this has something to do with all this. A government wouldn't be too happy about another government just taking its property any time it felt like it. Of course, a lot of governments look at all their citizens as their chattel property, so wouldn't they care of any of them were stolen away in the way that HR 6166 allows for? Any thoughts on this?

Related articles:
latimes.com
balkin.blogspot.com...
www.rawstory.com...



[edit on 6-10-2006 by conspiraciesabound]

Mod Edit: Link format edited. Please review this post.
mod edit to use external quote code, please review this link




[edit on 6-10-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 10:07 AM
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Where are the parents of the kids dying in Iraq? How can they not be outraged by this? Don't they understand:

The soldiers that their children are fighting against are recognized by the US government has having MORE RIGHTS than them or their children! This is not hyperbole, this is an absolute fact!

Doesn't anyone care about anything?



posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by conspiraciesabound
Where are the parents of the kids dying in Iraq? How can they not be outraged by this? Don't they understand:

The soldiers that their children are fighting against are recognized by the US government has having MORE RIGHTS than them or their children! This is not hyperbole, this is an absolute fact!

Doesn't anyone care about anything?


the parents are the ones that are shooting at the american soldiers

you know, the people we're calling terrorists

also, go to the al-jeezera webpage in english, search for iraqi casualties...
just brace yourself for some disturbing pictures



posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by conspiraciesabound
Where are the parents of the kids dying in Iraq? How can they not be outraged by this? Don't they understand:

The soldiers that their children are fighting against are recognized by the US government has having MORE RIGHTS than them or their children! This is not hyperbole, this is an absolute fact!

Doesn't anyone care about anything?


the parents are the ones that are shooting at the american soldiers

you know, the people we're calling terrorists

also, go to the al-jeezera webpage in english, search for iraqi casualties...
just brace yourself for some disturbing pictures


I was talking about the American parents of American soldiers dying in Iraq. Where there is the outrage?



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 08:10 AM
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While I do believe many of these new bills are definitely leading us on a path to a tyrannical state..

Realize this bill also includes:

948c: Persons subject to Military commissions:

Any **ALIEN** unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter.

The definition of Alien described in the bill is one who isn't a citizen of the U.S.

Although, someone recently posted something about Unlawful combatant status being widened to include possible U.S. Citizens, even if this definition is widened, it still wouldn't apply to this bill in the sense your post suggests it would.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 08:11 AM
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repeated post for some reason.. edited..

[edit on 7-10-2006 by Zebanar]



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 08:19 AM
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Any **ALIEN** unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter.

The definition of Alien described in the bill is one who isn't a citizen of the U.S.


Bingo. US citizens AND US military members would NOT be included in the "alien" definition. This simply means that foreign nationals who are members of legally recognized forces (i.e. meeting the criteria above) would have more protection than foreign nationals who are not members of the military. Foreign military personnel are subject to the articles of war and have certain rights (note that non-legal forces (those who don't return such rights) are exempt from this).

This also is a stipulation of the Geneva Convention, which is why the insurgents DO NOT fall under the Convention rules. (i.e. no recognized insignia, uniforms, etc), and are treated legally as insurgents.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 10:08 AM
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One thing I was irritated with was the amount of crap I had to go through to find the text for this actual bill(I had found it earlier).


It seems less and less often that a House Resolution number is printed in major media articles. In this particular instance, I couldn't even find a title for the bill, that may have been partly my ineptitude... or so I can hope.

[edit on 7-10-2006 by Zebanar]



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 10:44 AM
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Zebanar
It's got nothing to do with you. It's increasingly difficult to find primary sources on ANYTHING in the media, not to mention schools. Every day there is more distance between citizens and the facts, more filters in place to control what we know and what we think.

It's the inevitable consequence of a hands-off form of governance, taken to the extreme.

Instead of text and facts, numbers and data, we get opinions and various kinds of spin.

Many Americans just don't care, they can't care about anything anymore, besides cars and sports and television programs. But there are some who still fight against the mind-killers, and they're the reason for this increased protectionism we're seeing in regards to information.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 11:35 AM
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www.abovetopsecret.com...

disinformation / deflection campaign in action? pretty crazy how they rip up people's video tape, and tell off someone asking for a badge number.

not sure if this has been posted. Mods feel free to remove the main link or this one.. Id idn't mean to post a brand new thread.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by Zebanar
While I do believe many of these new bills are definitely leading us on a path to a tyrannical state..

Realize this bill also includes:

948c: Persons subject to Military commissions:

Any **ALIEN** unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter.

The definition of Alien described in the bill is one who isn't a citizen of the U.S.

Although, someone recently posted something about Unlawful combatant status being widened to include possible U.S. Citizens, even if this definition is widened, it still wouldn't apply to this bill in the sense your post suggests it would.


Please read this:


Subsection 4(b) (26) of section 950v. of HR 6166 - Crimes triable by military commissions - includes the following definition. "Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."

For an individual to hold an allegiance or duty to the United States they need to be a citizen of the United States. Why would a foreign terrorist have any allegiance to the United States to breach in the first place?

This is another telltale facet that proves the bill applies to U.S. citizens and includes them under the "enemy combatant" designation. We previously cited the comments of Yale law Professor Bruce Ackerman, who wrote in the L.A. Times, "The compromise legislation....authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."


shoutwire.com

[edit on 7-10-2006 by conspiraciesabound]

Mod Edit: Link format edited. Please review this post.



[edit on 7-10-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 06:41 AM
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Interesting interpetation, it seems very vague when put in those terms however, Any person subject to this chapter

and those are determined above to be **Alien** unlawful combatants. Its very well possible that its written this convoluted on purpose.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still very VERY skeptical of this piece of legislation. I'm also very much against propaganda and bias as much as I can be. I come here to sift through tons of stuff trying to find true nuggets of truth.

The funny part is, even if most or the worst of what we think is happening, and say, we were a senator or congressman, we probably still wouldn't have a real clue as to what was going on. Hell, some of us could have been FEMA investigators and still not have a clue.

The majority of us are just too far away from the actual events to truly determine anything, especially if certain powerful organizations are pulling alot of media strings.



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by Zebanar
Interesting interpetation, it seems very vague when put in those terms however, Any person subject to this chapter

and those are determined above to be **Alien** unlawful combatants. Its very well possible that its written this convoluted on purpose.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still very VERY skeptical of this piece of legislation. I'm also very much against propaganda and bias as much as I can be. I come here to sift through tons of stuff trying to find true nuggets of truth.

The funny part is, even if most or the worst of what we think is happening, and say, we were a senator or congressman, we probably still wouldn't have a real clue as to what was going on. Hell, some of us could have been FEMA investigators and still not have a clue.

The majority of us are just too far away from the actual events to truly determine anything, especially if certain powerful organizations are pulling alot of media strings.


The top attorneys out there, the real experts, are saying that this law applies to US citizens. I'm sure it's intended to. Remember they originally promised us they wouldn't use the patriot act against American citizens. Anyways, if martial law is declared, it's end game anyway. Look no further than what happened in New Orleans. Please read this:

From Behold A Pale Horse:


The following is a transcript of an audiotape with an urgent message
to the people from William Cooper on the subject of H.R. 4079.

We must stop the traitors now. William Cooper dictated this information to me by
phone early in 1990 and I tape-recorded the information as he gave it. I
made many tapes and sent them out exactly as Mr. Cooper has asked me to
do and those recipients have done the same. My name is Richard Murray
and I believe that William Cooper is the only man in America outside the
Secret Government who truly knows what is happening and what it means
to us, the average American Citizens.


[Begin tape] There's a guy by the name of Buster Horton. He's a
member of FEMA, and he's a member of the interdepartmental unit which
is empowered in the event of a national security emergency to become the
unelected national government, a sort of FEMA secret government, so to
speak.
A pretext for invoking those emergency measures can be found almost
daily in the newspapers. It can be anything from the suspension of debt
payments by the high bureaus of American countries, to mass runs on U.S.
commercial banks — and thaf s an issue, by the way, thafs being handled
personally by the National Security Council and Brent Scocroft — to food
shortages, to the drug war. The whole bit — anything, any disaster emergency
declared at all, even including the oil spill from the Exxon tanker in
Alaska. If the President had declared a national emergency, that could
have triggered it. Any instability in the Middle East — anything, in fact.
And they've already tested their capabilities in April 1984 with REX-
84A. And that was designed to test the readiness of the U.S. civilian and
military agencies to respond to a serious national security crisis.
Now, the Executive order that will implement this, the Executive
Order 11051, details responsibilities to the Office of Emergency Planning or
FEMA. It gives authorization to put ALL Executive orders into effect in
times of national emergency declared by the President, increased international
tension or economical or financial crisis. (Note that it covers every
conceivable domestic crisis but does not even mention war or nuclear
attack.)
Now, the only thing that has to happen for FEMA to be able to
implement all the executive orders, emergency executive orders, is for the
President to declare a national emergency of any type, as long as it's a
national emergency.

Executive Order 10995 provides for the takeover of the communications
media.

Executive Order 10997 provides for the takeover of all electric, power,
petroleum, gas, fuels, and minerals.

Exe



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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Executive Order 10988 provides for the takeover of food resources and
farms.

Executive Order 10999 provides for the takeover of all modes of transportation,
control of highways, seaports, etc.

Executive Order 11000 provides for mobilization of all civilians into
work brigades under the Government supervision.

Executive Order 11001 provides for Governmental takeover of all
health, education and welfare functions.

Executive Order 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a
national registration of all persons.

Executive Order 11003 provides for the Government to take over
airports and aircraft.

Executive Order 11004 provides for the Housing and Finance Authority
to relocate communities, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish
new locations for populations.

Executive Order 11005 provides for the Government to take over
railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
Now, all of these were COMBINED under Nixon into one huge Executive
order, which allows all of this to take place if the President declares a
national emergency and it can be implemented by the head of FEMA, NOT
BY THE PRESIDENT. The President has already given him that power
under these executive orders.


All of these were combined into Executive Order 11490 and that was
signed by President Carter on July 20,1979, and is, in fact, law.
So, if H.R. 4079 is passed and the President does what it says and
declares a national emergency because of the drug situation, whether it's
for one year, five years, five minutes or forever, it doesn't make any difference.
FEMA then can implement all these Executive orders, take over all
local, state, and national government suspend the Constitution and do
whatever they want to do.
Now, remember what North said during the Iran-Contra hearings. He
said that they were prepared to suspend the Constitution of the United
States. And he said if it hadn't been for their getting caught that this would
have happened. And all that did was delay it. This is what is still going to
happen.
Now, they've nominated (and I think he's been appointed) Maj. Gen.
Calvin Franklin, who's the head of FEMA. He was nominated because of

discussions proposing the removal of the implementation of the National
Guard in Washington, D.C. And Maj. Gen. Franklin is or was the Commanding
General of the District of Columbia National Guard.
Now, you've got to know that the National Guard would be of no help
at all in combating drug traffic in Washington, D.C, or anywhere else. The
primary effectiveness of the National Guard is in controlling mass civil
disorders.
On March 24, President Bush issued a new Executive order delegating
to the Director of FEMA powers which were vested in the President by the
Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act of 1988. And although the
order is described by the White House as simply a technical matter, in
reality the revision delegates to the FEMA Director, direct responsibility for
a large number of items which were earlier only the President's prerogative.

And that includes responsibility for General Federal Assistance, Federal
Emergency Assistance, Hazard Mitigation, Individual and Family
Grant Programs, and the power to direct other federal agencies to assist in
an emergency. AND THAT'S THE KEY. All other federal agencies will
come under FEMA.
Of course, the President retains the power to actually declare an emergency,
but as soon as he does that, the implementation of the measures
utilized will be transferred directly to the Director of FEMA. The brains
behind this contingency plan for a police state were the members of the
Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission, both of which
Bush is a member. And Brent Scocroft, National Security Adviser, who was
a member of FEMA's Advisory Board until he was appointed by Bush to
head the National Security Council, is a member of the Trilateral Commission
and also a business partner of Henry Kissinger, who has been a traitor
to this c

[edit on 8-10-2006 by conspiraciesabound]



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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Well, I know that FEMA is pretty crazy through people I know personally. My Ex-girlfriend's dad was a FEMA manager for a nearby county.

So, I got to hear about their ability to confiscate / utilize anyone's things first hand. Even he admitted its powers were astounding.



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