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The Lucifer Conspiracy

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posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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Hi Queenannie




The following may be of interest regarding "Satan":




Hu: the Divine Will


...In the Egyptian system, Hu meant will. But the Arabic system associated Hu with Sa to the point that the Arabic word for Sa (Shay) came to mean will.

The Egyptians understood that two wills operated in woman and man. The "ordinary" will was symbolised as Heru (Horus) while the divine will was symbolised as Tehuti. It was the work of the initiate to bring the Heru (human) will into accord with the Hu (divine) will.

When the two wills were at odds, the result was (in Arabic) shaytaan. Shaytaan (Satan) actually means "two wills". (The word shayt means will and "aan" means two)
...





And with the following in mind...:


www.abovetopsecret.com...


...we can see that the difference between perfoming the Divine Will(Partkdolg or Parlok Duty of the Being) and not performing it, comes down to how we direct the Inner Light and Fire.






Dzogchen


The Highest Yoga Tantra of the Tibetan tradition, and synonymous with Universal Gnosticism.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama said, "According to the Nyingma tradition, Dzogchen is the most profound of all the vehicles leading to enlightenment... but unless the practitioner has the capacity to understand the teachings properly, mistaken views can easily develop... Without a deep intellectual and experiential foundation...[it] can easily lead to confusion."

The same may be said of Gnosis.


Padmasambhava said, "[Dzogchen] is the secret, unexcelled cycle of the supreme vehicle [of Tantra], the true essence of the definitive meaning; the short path for attaining Buddhahood in one life."


Based in developing the powers of visualization in meditation, and rooted in the establishment of perfect control over attention, Dzogchen harnesses the nature of all experience through profound conscious transformation of all impressions, and is enforced and realized through the supreme methods of White Tantrism, or the perfect transformation of the vital energies.






Regards






[edit on 11-10-2006 by Tamahu]




posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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Tamahu, I have been reading your post with great interest. On some levels I feel that Gnostic teachings are the missing link in my truth seeking, yet some people insist that it is a lie. I resonate with what you present, but I don't want to be tricked in the end times by something that seems so right. So much of the writings present what seems to be the root of all that I seek, yet I don't know.

Is it normal to feel this way?

Also is it true that the Tarot represents all root truths in symbolic form?

On the Gnostic site you referred to I noticed PD Ouspensky's name. I read a book of his when I was a teenager and it changed my life, or my thinking for ever.

Please advise



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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YES! Tamahu - that is the tone of my thoughts on this subject today - contemplating the essential purpose of 'adversary...'

I think of it, personally, as a 'catalyst' in many situations. The pot-stirrer, the opportunity to choose and hone one's judgment....

above all - the chance to learn and grow!



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Terral
The Greek Lexicons are the common third party reference through which the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek terms are defined in these debates.

Not for me - I prefer to make sure outside of doctrinal slants just what each word means.


Anyone with a lick of sense would be totally embarrassed sitting on your side of this debate, after making such ridiculous “Satan is NOT a proper name” claims.

Okay then, Rabbi Terral Tzaddik of HaShem:
tell me just how do you make a word into a proper name in Hebrew?

Hint: The capitalization initiated by the publisher of a modern lexicon DOES NOT COUNT.




LOL. I can hardly wait to see your next Hebrew lesson and how you spell the words backwards to decode things.


Do you know what a palindrome is, Terral? Tell me - yes or no?

(Lived = Devil)
(Was = Saw)


Do ya'? Huh? Huh?


I do not believe you learned that at Seminary School.


HECK NO!
I'd say an education in a brothel would be more of truth (even of a Godly sort) than would be learning how to be salaried religioquist from a bunch of lettered Pharisees!


Paul wrote these words in about 60 AD or so. If Paul’s “my gospel” was “kept secret for long ages past,” but NOW is manifested, how can you ever hope to prove the Hebrew Language is the ROOT of the gospel? Your statement is more NONSENSE. How do we know for certain?

As far as we know, the HEBREWS spoke HEBREW.
And they spoke it first! Imagine that!


The Hebrews spoke Hebrew before the Jews spoke Koine Greek!


What is the Hebrew term for “gospel?”


'basar'
בסר


And yet, our resident scholar believes Hebrew is the ROOT (heh) of the Gospel.

What WAS it, then?
The King's English? Somalian? Punjab? Pig Latin?

What?!?!?


Please forgive, but the farther you poke your chest out like a ‘know it all,’ the more you will be asked to suck it back in.

That's not me, my dear - that is your mirror.

Admittedly, I AM lacking such a diploma as you have earned, summa cum laude - upon which to cushion your tushie when you sit down...


yet... I'm a chick so I have boobs which means I don't HAVE to stick my chest out!





posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by interestedalways
On some levels I feel that Gnostic teachings are the missing link in my truth seeking, yet some people insist that it is a lie.


May I offer my .02, also - my friend? Not instead of Tamahu - just mine, also....

This is what I have come to know about what a 'lie' is, in the way of which you speak...

A person with a deceitful heart and impure motives for seeking answers in sacred texts (by impure I mean not in order to know God for the sake of KNOWING HIM but rather to be KNOWN by men)....will find a lie in everything they read. And never even know it....

Someone who seeks God in sincerity and out of love will find TRUTH in all things studied. And will grow and grow in the ability to discern what is misleading and what is reliable.

But really - all things are a mixture of truth and of that which covers (deception/delusion/illusion) - I find that the 'nakedness' that is left when the rest is stripped away is truth.

What feels right within you is not going to be a lie. God leads us from within. If you trust His guidance - you have it - guaranteed to never be allowed to stray.


I resonate with what you present, but I don't want to be tricked in the end times by something that seems so right. So much of the writings present what seems to be the root of all that I seek, yet I don't know.

Only those that love unrighteousness (love themselves more than others and are unjust in that preference) will be 'tricked.' Both reliable truth and shady tricks come from the same place. But God will not allow those who seek Him to find something else.

This I KNOW from my own life. And you'll know, too - because as strange as the truth grows to be - it forms connections and makes sense with a consistency and cohesiveness with all knowledge that makes it undeniable! In other words - it may be unbelievable (as in fantastic) but it remains, without fail, completely logical in the proper perspective. It makes too much sense not to be true, you know?


Is it normal to feel this way?


I'm certain that it is. You truly seek. So you will have your heart's desire for the truth and to know God's mind. I felt the same, too.


Also is it true that the Tarot represents all root truths in symbolic form?

I think it does. 22 cards - 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet - there are several core foundations (all condemned by christianity, without fail) that are golden keys to the mysteries of God. The reason they are condemned is because they usurp the false authority of man's religion in your spiritual journey. God gave us all we need - seeds planted all along the way - we have our own seeds within ourselves, too.


I read a book of his when I was a teenager and it changed my life, or my thinking for ever.


I relate to that - I read a book called 'Many Lives, Many Masters' and the window was opened and it's been onward onward ever since.

Have you read any of the Nag Hammadi texts? There are more and more apocryphal texts surfacing these days - many good ones! Some aren't so good - but reading them won't hurt you, either. You'll know what rings true and it will give you security when you see how safe God keeps you when you venture toward Him on your own!

Here are a few of the ones I really like:
Testimony of Truth
Thunder, Perfect Mind
Gospel of Thomas
On the Origin of the World

These were great helps to me in filling in the holes and puzzling dead-ends in the canon - not to replace (for me) but to enhance and fortify.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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Hi QueenieAnnie:

Good day Queenie. I hope everything is peachy in QueenLand.


QueenAnnie >> Not for me - I prefer to make sure outside of doctrinal slants just what each word means.


Please carry on with your Hebrew lessons as the members of the ATS Board are left to their own devices. I will not challenge you on anything, as the powers that be here can be responsible for anyone being led astray. If you want to teach that Satan is not a proper name (Heh), then by all means “Go Girl!” What is going on in here is a travesty, as the ‘wisdom given him’ is being corrupted to the ‘destruction’ (2Pet. 3:14-16) of MANY. The owners of this Board wish to tip the playing field into the favor of you and your comrades. Good for you; and enjoy your time under the sun.

GL,

Terral



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by Terral
The owners of this Board wish to tip the playing field into the favor of you and your comrades. Good for you; and enjoy your time under the sun.


>sigh< I think you miss the point entirely. Neither the site owners (not being one, but I'm quite sure) nor the majority of members here wish to stifle debate in any way. That is, after all, why we're here. The board does have T&C which we all agree to when registering for the site.

I don't think the owners, administration, or moderators want you to quit participating. But it is not only part of the T&C but also in your best interest (if you really want to have your opinions considered) to not be dismissive, insulting, or rude. How many people are going to seriously consider your viewpoint if you insult them? Come on, this is basic playground knowledge. I think most of us welcome opposing viewpoints. I know I do. If my beliefs aren't strong enough to be held up to scrutiny, then how correct can they be?

Anyway, do as you will, but if you're going to take your ball and go home, that's your choice and not the result of the "owners" wanting to "tip the playing field". I've seen you post some very thoughtful and thought-inspiring stuff about scripture and the 9-11 Pentagon attack. Whether or not I agree with it is irrelevant in this context. The fact is, I think if you could step back, take a breath, and maybe start afresh without the belligerence we'd all be better off. That's you, and the board as a whole. Meaning, the more diverse opinions we have available, the stronger the board is overall.

Maybe.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Terral
Good day Queenie. I hope everything is peachy in QueenLand.


Actually, it is 'Zion' starting today - didn't you know?


Please carry on with your Hebrew lessons as the members of the ATS Board are left to their own devices. I will not challenge you on anything, as the powers that be here can be responsible for anyone being led astray.


Oh please - it is not the spiritual duty of the owners of this board to keep souls from going astray! Get real. There are rules so that we can all enjoy ourselves and learn from one another. You seem to disregard such formalities - not realizing that even GOD does not break the rules that HE sets, Himself!

But I am somewhat disappointed that you won't be sharing your linguistic mastery of the Hebrew tongue with me, so I might be corrected and set aright....

You were certainly the easiest bluff I've ever called, though...I would have expected a bit more preparation from you, Terral.



Good for you; and enjoy your time under the sun.


That's right - the healing wings of the Sun of Righteousness! Perhaps when you meet Him face to face you can line Him out on His doctrinal errors (since that is where I inherited mine from).

See you at the banquet!!!



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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To clarify one thing...



Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by Tamahu
However the "I" can only exist by borrowing(or stealing rather) Light from the I AM.

How can light be ‘stolen’ from God unless He wills it?



Well I say "borrowed", because "Satan" could not exist without "God".

And that borrowed Light that "Satan" needs in order to even exist, must eventually(at least by the end of the Great Cosmic Day) be liberated from the Satanic empty shells(I's or egos) it is trapped within, as to return to it's Source.

And by "stolen", I'm being somewhat figurative.

God's Light is Infinite, yet demons-and everything else-needs a portion of that Light in order to exist.

So they take a portion of the Infinite Light(so the Infinite Light doesn't really lose anything, as it is Infinite) in order to exist as they do; but I say "stolen" because they trap that portion of Light within the egos or I's, but are allowed to do so because they have the free-will to do so(but this doesn't mean that the Divinity likes to see His/Her Light trapped within egos/suffering).

By the end of the Great Cosmic Day, there will be Monads who return to the Light by working for it, by walking the Path of the Razor's Edge, which is the Conscious Liberation of the Light(Lucifer) from the inner-egos or I's(Satan).

And there will be those who will(do to not eliminating Consciously the egos or I's)mechanically go round and round the wheel of samsara until, according to the Gnostic teachings, they have lived out their 3,000 cycles of 108 human lives.

These ones end up going through the long and painful Second Death 324,000 times, to then finally submerge within the Blissful Absolute as failures; that is, until the beginning of the next Great Cosmic Day.


So in reality, all of us with egos, kleshas, I's, psychological-aggregates, etc. are Satan(with Lucifer/The Light trapped within).

After the ego/Satan is eliminated by the Initiate, then Lucifer has the option of entering the Absolute with full Self-Realization of Her/His Omnipresence/science/potence within His/Her Monad; or Lucifer can Reincarnate as a Bodhisattva as to help other Sentient-Being/Monads to defeat their own inner Satan, as to convert their fallen Satan back into Christus-Lucifer the Brightest Angel in Heaven.





Regards








[edit on 12-10-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 07:19 PM
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QueenAnnie.......

Thank you for your reply to my questions.
I find your explaination very elequent and comforting.
I will not allow fear to distract me from the path.
When I first starting reading and posting on ATS I felt I could not learn anything here. I do not feel that way anymore and I have learned so much and am looking forward to continue to understand in ways i haven't in the past.

I liked the way you expressed yourself when you explained as you did.

The essense of the Truth isn't corrupted, but we can approach it with the wrong motives and get an undesirable result, or approach the same Truth with unselfish motives and get desirable results.

I love ATS, and those of you who are ATS.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 09:40 PM
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That makes me real happy, Interested - I love to know of people getting closer to their desire

(which, I think, for the average soul, is to know its origin - some say God and there are other words - but our Creator is ONE)


Maybe if I get the time, I'll start a thread about all these 'other' texts - it seems like they are popping out of the woodwork, lately - and I've found some amazingly consistent gems - like the Apocalypse of Abraham and Sefer Zerubbabel.

Too bad Terral's apostasized on us (did I say that?
)
because in my email I got my monthly newsletter from the Ancient Hebrew website....and lo and behold there was something in there just for me!


The guiding light

In ancient times the stars would guide one on their journey. The Hebrew verb הלל (halal, Strong's #7725) is the shining light of these stars - For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light הלל (Isaiah 13:10). This same word is also translated as "praise" but Hebraicly means to "look toward another as a shining light." When the Psalms say, Praise Yah (halelu-Yah) (Psalm 135:3) it is literally saying "Look to Yah as the light that will guide you on your journey."


The writer always seems to have a deeper understanding (although not Hebrew or Jewish himself) than I am able to ferret out - different than the Rabbim, too - which is basically two sides of one coin that is the key to understanding the bible as ONE GuideBook instead of a 'two' testament or covenant (there are actually 7) doctrinal thesis....

Anyway, I was thrilled that he addressed this word 'halal' - I was on the right track, but I'm just not able to get it the way this guy does. I'm real grateful for his website and generosity.

It actually makes it hard to deny, now - halal being not our enemy but our friend! Our best ally and our guide!

And it only adds to His glory - that NOTHING is beyond his desire to deliver us and restore our lives as they were!

I am the 'way', the truth, and the life....the LIGHT of all men!

He makes me SING!!!



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 10:11 PM
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I once read a very interesting theory on Lucifer...
I'll try to relate it as best as I can;

Lucifer (and all Angels) was created as aspects independent of God as a way to "define all things". Through these aspects, alternate prespections were formed and thus all things became "real". Lucifer was the first and most powerful aspect to be formed.
The dissagreement between Lucifer and God came when Lucifer suggested that Man needed to have the same ability to precive God's works as the angels themselves. In effect, Lucifer suggested that in order to properly create Man, Man needed to have freewill bestowed upon him. That would require that all men be infused with a portion of the Divine Spark and would contain within each an aspect of God.

God's resounce is that it would create "Hell". That many being infused with the ability to precive and shape the world would create conflict and hardship, especially considering that there was no way they could be embued with enough power to be aware of "Heaven".

Lucifer argued that this should be the entire point. That the conflict and hardship inflicted upon man through freewill, would allow Souls (the small aspects of God infused in Men) to learn much more than could be otherwise.

Lucifer was so insitant that Man required freewill that he offered up his own aspect to create the required souls. Thus, he was "cast down" to the earth... his energies becoming infused within Man to form Souls.

This theory explains how both Lucifer and God dwell within each of us and using it as context does much to explain a lot of what has been discussed in this thread. I first tripped over this in the pages of Legion, the second book in the Exorsist Series. Blatty did a much better job of discribing it than I have. It compelled me to do some digging to see if people actually ascribed to it or was it just some interesting fiction.

I was suprised to find his writing was based off existing theories rather than making stuff up to provide a good read.

I personally enjoy the conceptuals of the theory since it removes the entire debate of Ultimate Good vs Ultimate Evil. It rolls it all up into a nice package of Free Will and drops the responcibility for good and evil directly on us Humans.

Don't blame God.
Don't blame Lucifer.
You did it, it's your fault.
Deal with it.

I like that message.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 10:22 PM
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Yes - that's good - that's part of what I am trying to get across - even what some might condemn as some sort of malignant being - if that being is engendered from the being of the Almighty God, then what could it be, fundamentally, other than LOVE??

I also realize that I have a personal problem, a BIG ONE, with the use of the name 'Lucifer' itself....I just have to get this out, pardon me, everyone....

A catholic scribe named Jerome stuck this roman name in the Hebrew scriptures and it has no business in there!

No MORE LUCIFER!

Hebrew is a deep language - not just sounds to form words but ancient meanings that can be deciphered....Lucifer doesn't have anything to offer in that sense, and Heylel is rich with meaning!

Ixnay on the Uciferay, people!!!



k.

I feel better.

thanks....



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Yes - that's good - that's part of what I am trying to get across - even what some might condemn as some sort of malignant being - if that being is engendered from the being of the Almighty God, then what could it be, fundamentally, other than LOVE??

I also realize that I have a personal problem, a BIG ONE, with the use of the name 'Lucifer' itself....I just have to get this out, pardon me, everyone....

A catholic scribe named Jerome stuck this roman name in the Hebrew scriptures and it has no business in there!

No MORE LUCIFER!

Hebrew is a deep language - not just sounds to form words but ancient meanings that can be deciphered....Lucifer doesn't have anything to offer in that sense, and Heylel is rich with meaning!

Ixnay on the Uciferay, people!!!



k.

I feel better.

thanks....


So what name do you want to give Lucifer..............Satan?



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 11:59 PM
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Who cares???

Why call 'satan' at all?

An idea that is a far bigger and/or threatening concept to most other people concerned with Christ than it is for me.

And in the essential meaning of the word - opponent - most of the time YOU can call your satan 'annie,' Sun!!

I am your satan if you want me to be.



Remember Andrew Dice Clay's famous line?

Satan? Yeah, I f$^#%d him!


[edit on 10/13/2006 by queenannie38]



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Who cares???

Why call 'satan' at all?

An idea that is a far bigger and/or threatening concept to most other people concerned with Christ than it is for me.

And in the essential meaning of the word - opponent - most of the time YOU can satan 'annie,' Sun!!

I am your satan if you want me to be.



Remember Andrew Dice Clay's famous line?

Satan? Yeah, I f$^#%d him!


Is this the one that deceived the nations? Is he as weak as us?


Satan is already defeated. His only power is illusion and weak personal attacks.
You know what puzzles me. I can't quite figure out what's in it for you? Sure he gives you instant power but what's the point? It's only illusion. It's not real power.

It seems to me that you took the shortcut. You went to Jesus because you were searching for power and he said go clean the bathroom. So you took the easy way. But there is nothing there. Yes, the Antichrist is soon to set up his kingdom, but he can't win................so what is the purpose of being on the loosing team? Eternal Damnation, or don't you understand these things?

Better to clean toilets with the winner than be a general with the looser.

No hope, no future, no victory..............................No sense.





posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by BASSPLYR
I think lucifer was just the loosing faction in a ancient war that involved mankind helping as pons to the "Angels." The victorious side got to write history and demonise the other. THere are arguments one can make that put satan in the favorable light and not "god" or the victorious side.

Maybe telling us that all satan wants to do is trick us into believing wrong is Gods way of preventing us from learning the truth. WHy would any parent want to deny knowledge to their children if only to maintaine leverage over them.

I have always had trouble connecting satan with evil. I see things that I can say were biased opinions of him/it but no cold hard facts, so the real lucifer is up to pure speculation. Lucifer could be like the oracle in the matrix movies and god the architect.

And translation is a very good point to bring up in this thread. I feel that there was massive un intentional or intentional miss transcription in the ancient holy works.


Satan isn't neccesarily evil, what happened was that when God was created he wondered if there werre other "Gods" so he had a sort of multi personality disorder and thus creating satan. Though Satan is the opposite of God, it is still not neccesarily "evil"



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 04:17 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
.No sense.


The only thing with 'no sense' in this discussion is you, Sun.



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 10:57 AM
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BitRaiser, thanks for contributing, I have felt something similar, with the idea of the Negative/Dark side being a sacrificial lamb of some sorts. like the one splitting in two in order to allow us the experience of duality.

The idea of the All that Is desireing physical expression and the opportunity to experience all of it's ideas and potential variations has always been intriguing.

The Yezidi seem to incorporate best the embracing of dual aspects of one Being,



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 04:17 PM
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EDIT



[edit on 16-10-2006 by Tamahu]



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