Zero carb diet

Originally posted by Shoktek

Yea, duh. And if you'd take the time to study the human body, you will realize that we are not pure carnivores, by nature/design... most animals out in the wild still need to consume vitamins, fiber, and minerals. This occurs when they consume a kill's digestive tract, which is something you do not do. And your entire post is misleading to anyone who reads it.

Ok, let me make this clear: omnivores: can subsist off of either plants or animal foods for subsistence. carnivores: Must eat flesh for full health. This does not imply that we cannot eat plants, just that we cannot naturally live solely off of them. The main reason we classify ourselves as omnivores is because it is common belief that we need plants to be healthy, when in reality we do not- we can subsist in great health off of animal foods alone. I, and many others, have experienced this first hand, we don't need a fricken "scientific study" to validate real-life experience.

About the intestinal matter- again, more BS- ok, let's play by your rules, where's a "scientific resource" to prove that carnivorous mammals regularly consume intestinal plant matter for fiber and other such things? And that they need this fiber and partially digested intestinal plant matter to remain healthy? What a load of BS- people feed their dogs and cats raw meat diets (it's called Bones and Raw Foods I believe), without intestinal plant matter, and they remain in perfect health, same for human carnivores.

Selenium is just a needed trace element which occurs as part of certain amino acids I believe, and is not itself an antioxidant (it does support the process), nor are simply "amino acids", and I don't know about zeaxanthin showing antioxidative activity. I guess if I drink a glass of milk I'm going to get a lot of antioxidants then, because it's full of amino acids, as is any high-protein animal food source.

Vitamin E from animal fats, cholesterol, Coenzyme Q10, glutathione- look, if you would just read up, you would learn that antioxidants are not just found in your sancrosanct plant garbage

Right...find me one qualified physician or dietician who agrees with you, and then maybe you have an argument. The difference between their knowledge and yours? They have a degree in the subject, and actually are qualified to give out true, healthy information...

You are a slave to the researchers who spoon feed the masses information. while scientific studies can be a useful resource, your dependence on them exposes your intellectual limitations.

You are the one trying to prove your ingenius zero-carb carnivorous diet to the people on this forum...so far you have not done this, and have no reliable sources to support your theory.

Well? When are you going to stop your useless Ad Hominem attacks and actually provide any evidence for your statement? Why do you think I'm trying to share this way of eating? Because IT WORKS. Again, I don't need a scientific study to validate my real-life experience of obtaining great health.

Yea, yea...find me a reliable article that supports this idea. Wake up buddy...the plant "toxins" you speak of are going to be present in meat just as well as plant material, because this is what the animals consume.

TOTAL BS. This is such simplistic reasoning it's ridiculous. The herbivorous animals we consume have developed means of metabolizing these plant toxins- I never heard of a steak containing tannins, oxalates, or proteases, which are all antinutrients commonly found in plant matter as a chemical defense mechanism. The presence of antinutrients in plant matter is well known, while the presence of them in meat-foods is non-existent- this is common knowledge, buddy.

Ok...and how does this apply to the modern human's diet?

Uh....well, it goes like this: we evolved to consume animal fats- we still have the bodies of our paleolithic ancestors, as 10-40 thousand years is not enough time to evolve into something else, therefore we should eat like our ancestors: low carb, high fat, moderate protein

And you know this, because you have probably spent a lot of time studying it (maybe reading books instead of pro-carnivore diet or "caveman diet" websites)...

Yes, I actually read studies (omg, actual scientific studies!) pertaining to the environment that our paleolithic ancestors evolved in. Again- what I said is common knowledge.

Ok. Go ahead and gamble with your health, but don't advise others to do the same. We'll see how you're doing in a few years.

I said it before, and I will say it again- this diet works. And it works well, too. It is the diet we evolved with. Ever heard of Vilhjalmur Steffanson and his article Adventures In Diet? Since you are so dependent on scientific studies, I will offer you this by Stephen D. Phinney Stephen D. Phinney: Ketogenic Diets and Physical Performance

Althought the main focus of this article is on physical performance on low to no-carb diets, it explains how it is completely possible to remain in great health and fitness on a zero-carb WOE

And tell it to the current generation of American kids, who commonly eat more meat now than people here ever have, and who are predicted to be the first generation to die off at an earlier age than the previous.

The current generation of American kids do not consume rare steak, raw eggs, raw liver, kidney suet, bone marrow, beef heart, bull testicles, etc., they consume processed meats with preservative, fake processed snack foods, devitalized grains, soda pop, and candy- please, don't overlook this distinction.

I am not denying that a balanced diet is healthy, it is very healthy, especially if all the foods eaten are whole foods- it is just unnecessary for health to have a 'balance'. Just because your parents were healthy eating a balance, does not mean it is the only (or even the best) way to achieve health. Logical fallacies abound. And who knows, maybe they could have been even healthier if they cut out things like fruits (and grains, if they ate them)?

[edit on 19-12-2006 by the_individualist]

"Vegetarian" can include seafood. Again, more BS that you made up in order to further your carnivore diet theory. Tell it to all the elderly people, many of whom live very happy lives, and see what they say...and then we'll see where you are at that age, if you're even still around (doubtful).

Again.,...what are your qualifications? You read a lot of caveman diet theories, message boards, and other similar web sites? You are trying to convince yourself that your craving to eat meat without end is healthy and normal? And you also believe that your knowledge supersedes that of medical school/bio/dietary health graduates, even though almost all of them would argue against you? Did you stay at a holiday inn express last night?

NO, vegetarian means you do not consume flesh- fish is flesh. It is near-vegetarian.

You are making Ad Hominem assumptions simply based off of your subjective viewpoint on my beliefs. What absurdity. NO, for the last time, I do not get all of my information from things like "pro-caveman" message boards. Qualifications? Does one need qualifications to carry a valid idea? In most cases, yes I would agree with you, qualified 'professionals' know much more than someone like me, but when it comes to diet "science", many researchers are tainted by commercial interests (the processed food and grain industries are HUGE and have extensive monetary influence- much more so than the meat industry). Unfortunately, because all the low-fat dogma has existed for most of the past century, many modern researchers have no idea they are pushing pseudo-science on the public- many honestly believe the status quo of mainstream nutrition. After all, it is what they were taught to believe.

Pretty powerful and meaningful statements, coming from a guy who knows nothing about nutrition, biology, or medical science...once again, no reliable studies or articles to support any of this BS.

More worthless Ad Hominem attacks- You assume that I know "nothing" about nutrition, biology, or medical 'science', simply because you perceive my support for a carnivorous diet as against what you and mainstream nutrition believe. You are basing your hollow judgements off of forum posts- you have never met me in real life, you have no idea what kind of material I read, you have no idea how much education I have received- you simply make assumptions.

Please, address the real topic at hand, not my individual intellectual qualifications.

Originally posted by the_individualist
NO, vegetarian means you do not consume flesh- fish is flesh. It is near-vegetarian.

Whatever...I have seen different definitions of the term, some "vegetarians" include seafood and eggs in their diet, those who eat no animal products at all are "vegans" I believe...anyway, it doesn't matter, it's a vague term.

You are making Ad Hominem assumptions simply based off of your subjective viewpoint on my beliefs. What absurdity. NO, for the last time, I do not get all of my information from things like "pro-caveman" message boards. Qualifications? Does one need qualifications to carry a valid idea? In most cases, yes I would agree with you, qualified 'professionals' know much more than someone like me, but when it comes to diet "science", many researchers are tainted by commercial interests (the processed food and grain industries are HUGE and have extensive monetary influence- much more so than the meat industry). Unfortunately, because all the low-fat dogma has existed for most of the past century, many modern researchers have no idea they are pushing pseudo-science on the public- many honestly believe the status quo of mainstream nutrition.

Yea, I agree that a lot of researchers are "tainted by commercial interests", but it doesn't change the fact that you still have no solid data to support your claims. Thousands of years of civilized society thriving on farm-raised crops, as well as animal products, can't be all wrong. There have not been any human groups that I know of that subsisted on all-meat diets for any significant period of time. If you want to go back to the hunters and gatherers, yea, they probably did eat a lot of meat, but also plenty of wild vegetables and fruits, as their environments and seasons provided to them...but one of the most recognized signs of civilized society is the ability to farm, grow domestic crops, as well as use domestic animals. And most all of these groups lived on a diet consisting of crops such as beans, squash, maize, or other foods they could grow...they ate meat as well, but it was not nearly as much as an average person eats today, and it could have been saved for rare, special occasions, or when the crops were not doing so well. No groups of humans lived on a purely carnivorous diet for any long period of time.

More worthless Ad Hominem attacks- You assume that I know "nothing" about nutrition, biology, or medical 'science', simply because you perceive my support for a carnivorous diet as against what you and mainstream nutrition believe. You are basing your hollow judgements off of forum posts- you have never met me in real life, you have no idea what kind of material I read, you have no idea how much education I have received- you simply make assumptions.

Please, address the real topic at hand, not my individual intellectual qualifications.

I am basing my judgements off of my own reading of diet, health, as well as studies in history and anthropology, and I know that a well-balanced diet has been used by humans throughout history, and that much of our success comes from farming crops, being able to produce food to keep us alive...meat was not consumed in any significant quantity except for times of little or no crops to eat, in hunting and gathering groups, or within the last couple centuries, mainly the last century when the commercial meat industry began to take off...this diet is nowhere proven in history as a well-balanced diet is, and nowhere is it proven in studies or common medical theory.

When you are handing out advice that could very well destroy someone's long-term health (although most people will not be stupid enough to follow this diet anyway), you are stepping out of bounds...the internet is a great place for people with no qualifications to come out and start spewing information and theories, while not being accountable for what they put out there. The name of this forum is "health and wellness", and what you have proposed is a surefire route to death and disease...this is not only my opinion, but the opinion of almost any doctor you would ask. There would be no reason a person should eat a purely carnivorous diet, unless they are forced to do so because other food is unavailable...and so it has been throughout history. Balance and moderation in all things...

Originally posted by Shoktek

Yea, I agree that a lot of researchers are "tainted by commercial interests", but it doesn't change the fact that you still have no solid data to support your claims. Thousands of years of civilized society thriving on farm-raised crops, as well as animal products, can't be all wrong.

Are you holding up a tiny 10,000 years of agriculture to millions of years of carnivory?

There have not been any human groups that I know of that subsisted on all-meat diets for any significant period of time.

The Inuit, Plains Indians, practically every paleolithic man (although I admit the latter is mostly speculaton)

The Inuit- ate NO plant material whatsoever for centuries

The Plains Native Americans- Only ate plant foods opportunistically and seasonally- most of the time, it was meat, and fat

If you want to go back to the hunters and gatherers, yea, they probably did eat a lot of meat, but also plenty of wild vegetables and fruits, as their environments and seasons provided to them...

No, not "plenty" of fruits and vegetables- fruits and vegetables have only become as palatable and benign as they are through agricultural influence- the kinds of fruits and vegetables we evolved with were small, bitter, and on the whole, much more poisonous- not very good for food unless you're starving. (They also had more fiber(less extractable calories) which only herbivorous animals like cows and horses can digest).

This is where opportunism comes in- in an uncertain world, where you might not have the meat and fat you need 365 days of the year, a limited ability to digest plants would be very conducive to survival in lean times when our prey was scarce. This is why we have plant digesting mechanisms (altough not very developed). That said, our ancestors were probably very skilled hunters- after all, it was their "career". Modern man, for example, fills a professional field to obtain the means of life, paleolithic man- hunts for the means of life. Just like how you are skilled enough in your career to bring food home, paleolithic man was skilled enough as a hunter to bring a dead carcass home on a regular basis. All they had to do was follow the herds (which is what led mankind over the Bering Strait, afterall- more evidence for our primarily carnivorous subsistence; you can't follow fruits and vegetables across an ice bridge)

but one of the most recognized signs of civilized society is the ability to farm, grow domestic crops, as well as use domestic animals. And most all of these groups lived on a diet consisting of crops such as beans, squash, maize, or other foods they could grow...they ate meat as well, but it was not nearly as much as an average person eats today, and it could have been saved for rare, special occasions, or when the crops were not doing so well. No groups of humans lived on a purely carnivorous diet for any long period of time.

Ok, beans, squash, etc. are worthless for human nutrition- they don't even hold up to vegetables. The only reason mankind turned to them and other agricultural products was because our population grew too large to subsist off of animal foods alone- it was an overpopulation crisis: you can't feed tens of thousands of people living in a village fresh meat every day- only a band of say, 100 people can live like that in one area (and boy, would that be the life). No, you need to have small, compact, non-perishable foods that can be put into long-term storage like corn, wheat, etc. This, I like to say, is when we "climbed down" the food chain, from a largely carnivorous species, to a (mostly) herbivorous species- like the food chain, since there are more plants, there can be more herbivores, and since we became mostly herbivorous, there was more "food" for us to live off of. Of course, since we are not fully adapted to plant food consumption, this shift in our trophic level caused modern disease: in early times- rickets, tooth decay, plagus etc. Then when processed foods came along with the advent of free market capitalism, boy were we screwed over: cancer, heart disease, diabetes.

Anyways, yes, our ancestors did eat plant foods, but very inconsistently and opportunistically- plant foods were not the means to complete health, they were the means to survival in hard times. MEAT was the primary means to our health. After all, like I said, there were no vegetable gardens or fruit orchards with edible plant foods back then- try grass, poisonous seeds, scattered bitter fruits (which were like not even half the size of our modern fruits), mildly poisonous leaves, poisonous fungus, or bark. Edible plants were hard to come by, and only eaten in desparation.

this diet is nowhere proven in history as a well-balanced diet is, and nowhere is it proven in studies or common medical theory.

It is not scientifically proven and is largely unstudied because it is largely unheard of. But when examined and connected together, all the pieces fit. Paleolithic man didn't wake up in the morning to a breakfast of baked potatoes, juicy lettuce, and shiny waxed apples- the time it would have taken to collect these foods in their paleolithic forms would be the same time required to hunt a much more nutrient dense animal. Even the women, who did the most gathering, ate mostly animal foods- I have since lost the link to this study, but there was one where the isotope of a paleolithic women confirmed that our ancestors were largely carnivorous- in fact, her bones matched that of a lion or other carnivore who subsisted solely on meat. This seems to suggest that any plant foods eaten were scarce and only eaten opportunistically.

What we eat is largely a product of our traditions- our ancestors survived a food crisis by eating plants, thus they may have concluded that these plants somehow had magical life-sustaining properties, and passed on this 'information' to their children, who came to believe that plants were good foods (after all, they saved us when we went through hard times where prey was scarce), and thus began incorporating them into their diet, and passing it on to the next generation, and the next, and the next, up to the modern day, where we still believe plants are good food with life-giving properties.

Originally posted by Shoktek
When you are handing out advice that could very well destroy someone's long-term health (although most people will not be stupid enough to follow this diet anyway), you are stepping out of bounds...the internet is a great place for people with no qualifications to come out and start spewing information and theories, while not being accountable for what they put out there. The name of this forum is "health and wellness", and what you have proposed is a surefire route to death and disease...this is not only my opinion, but the opinion of almost any doctor you would ask. There would be no reason a person should eat a purely carnivorous diet, unless they are forced to do so because other food is unavailable...and so it has been throughout history. Balance and moderation in all things...

Ok, I know this diet sounds very unhealthy and absurd to many people, educated or not, due to our modern cultural conditioning about food, but the evidence is there, one only needs to take it, and connect the dots to realize that we are a largely carnivorous species. A diet of solely animal foods is very sustaining and healthy, and is very conducive to long-term health. Owsley Stanley, soundman for the Grateful Dead, for example, has been a pure human carnivore for 47 years (could be longer now) and has remained in good health (although not the best- he doesn't eat very much organ meat like liver or heart, which our ancestors ate in abundance). There were times when he would only eat fresh rare steaks and sticks of butter, months on end, and still remained healthy (I wouldn't advise that diet regime though, an optimally healthy carnivore would eat more organs, better fat sources like suet, etc.)

I don't care what modern doctors say- those are the same people pumping out harmful prescription medications, pseudo-cures, and stupid low-fat dogma that has been demonstrated as harmful. Also, they are human too, and are largely under the influence of our plant eating culture.

There is NO concrete scientific evidence that things such as fresh meat, animal fats, and other such foods cause disease or disorder of any kind- in fact, the opposite is the case. This diet is NOT a route to disease or death, there is NO evidence to support this hollow statement. Only processed meats and foods seem to be so unhealthy. The low-fat nonsense being pushed by ignorant medical 'professionals' in the name of commercial interest has created a generation of Americans who are suffering from chronic diseases such as cancer, heart disease, and diabetes- if we do not return to our carnivorous origins, our population will continue to increase and our quality of life will continue to degenerate.

There is plenty of reason- slower aging due to limited insulin response and high amounts of carnosine(insulin is highly correlated with aging, and excess insulin is only present when large amounts of carbohydrates are consumed), stable blood sugar levels, NO tooth decay (caused by carbs), cleaner body odor, high nutrient levels (especially the all important vitamins A and D), less harmful waste products (the byproducts of burning fats for energy are water and carbon dioxide, compare that to lactic acid from carbohydrate metabolism), less gas, no hunger, no cravings, stable mood, better digestion, to name the basic benefits of this diet.

Look, you can dig up all the scientific resources you want, but the only ultimate way to validate this diet is to try it for yourself and experience how amazing this way of eating is first hand. Again, I refer you here The Active No Carber Forum

This is a successfully practiced eating lifestyle with great benefits- don't brush it off as absurd simply because it does not line up with our culture's beliefs and attitudes.

[edit on 19-12-2006 by the_individualist]

[edit on 19-12-2006 by the_individualist]

Originally posted by the_individualist
Ok, I know this diet sounds very unhealthy and absurd to many people, educated or not, due to our modern cultural conditioning about food, but the evidence is there, one only needs to take it, and connect the dots to realize that we are a largely carnivorous species. A diet of solely animal foods is very sustaining and healthy, and is very conducive to long-term health. Owsley Stanley, soundman for the Grateful Dead, for example, has been a pure human carnivore for 47 years (could be longer now) and has remained in good health (although not the best- he doesn't eat very much organ meat like liver or heart, which our ancestors ate in abundance). There were times when he would only eat fresh rare steaks and sticks of butter, months on end, and still remained healthy (I wouldn't advise that diet regime though, an optimally healthy carnivore would eat more organs, better fat sources like suet, etc.)

I don't care what modern doctors say- those are the same people pumping out harmful prescription medications, pseudo-cures, and stupid low-fat dogma that has been demonstrated as harmful. Also, they are human too, and are largely under the influence of our plant eating culture.

There is NO concrete scientific evidence that things such as fresh meat, animal fats, and other such foods cause disease or disorder of any kind- in fact, the opposite is the case. This diet is NOT a route to disease or death, there is NO evidence to support this hollow statement. Only processed meats and foods seem to be so unhealthy. The low-fat nonsense being pushed by ignorant medical 'professionals' in the name of commercial interest has created a generation of Americans who are suffering from chronic diseases such as cancer, heart disease, and diabetes- if we do not return to our carnivorous origins, our population will continue to increase and our quality of life will continue to degenerate.

And you have given no sources to prove any of your claims of "paleolithic people" living on almost all meat, no sources to prove your idea that an all-meat diet is healthy or good, and nothing but your own theories and ideas on why your way is the right way.

We are not paleolithic man...that age ended with the development of agriculture, and then we began to make more technological advancements in a few thousand years than we did for many thousand as paleolithic man. Of course there are many reasons for this, but I don't see what it is with you people who think that a "caveman diet" is the best way...cavemen are all gone now, and most people have been eating balanced diets for thousands of years, living longer and happier (arguably) than ever, with more knowledge.

Once again you fail to include any research done to support your claims, and evidence throughout history, medical journals, reliable opinions of doctors...you even go so far as to cite Owsley Stanley as a good example for healthy living! Sure, he was only one of the largest '___' manufacturers in history, and spent most of his life on drugs and touring with the dead...he's a good person to look at for leading a nice healthy life. But now I get it...you've been sipping on old Owsley's magic kool-aid haven't you?

Originally posted by Shoktek

And you have given no sources to prove any of your claims of "paleolithic people" living on almost all meat, no sources to prove your idea that an all-meat diet is healthy or good, and nothing but your own theories and ideas on why your way is the right way.

You simply refuse to research out of your own limited circle of dietary knowledge.

We are not paleolithic man...that age ended with the development of agriculture, and then we began to make more technological advancements in a few thousand years than we did for many thousand as paleolithic man. Of course there are many reasons for this, but I don't see what it is with you people who think that a "caveman diet" is the best way...cavemen are all gone now, and most people have been eating balanced diets for thousands of years, living longer and happier (arguably) than ever, with more knowledge.

No, we are not paleolithic man, but we still have the same bodies as paleolithic man- how many times do I have to tell you: 10,000 years is NOT enough time to evolve into a so-called "healthy" diet of grains, fruits, etc.

Once again you fail to include any research done to support your claims, and evidence throughout history, medical journals, reliable opinions of doctors...you even go so far as to cite Owsley Stanley as a good example for healthy living!

Sure, he was only one of the largest '___' manufacturers in history, and spent most of his life on drugs and touring with the dead...he's a good person to look at for leading a nice healthy life. But now I get it...you've been sipping on old Owsley's magic kool-aid haven't you?

Are you BLIND?! Did you not read ANY of the links I posted (recently and previously)?!?!?

Look, unlike you, I don't rely on "professionals" to spoon-feed me the information I need to make my life decisions- I do my own research and experimentation, so I can decide for myself. I am not under the influence of anyone else's opinion- I craft my own out of what I observe in my own experiments. Learning and research is not limited to the people with credentials, buddy, anyone with a basic knowledge of the scientific method and logical reasoning can apply it to their own lives.

More Ad Hominem BS- You declare Stanley as the epitome of unhealthy living simply because he manufactured '___', etc. Sure, his lifestyle is not to be emulated, but his dietary habits are- his drug habits are completely separate from his dietary ones. You simply cannot objectively analyze these things can you? You seem to be unable to separate the individuals carrying the information from the information itself; in other words, the stigma that the person has gets rubbed onto everything else they touch. In contrast, you apparently take anything a "medical professional" or other "authority figure" says as sancrosanct truth. (The authoritarian conditioning of obedience just won't stop in this society will it?!) You go purely by Ethos, and totally disregard Logos entirely. It appears all that matters to you is "qualifications" and the like, as if these were an endearment sent from the holy Lord of Truth.

I fail to see how you can place such blind faith in your modern-day God: Authority

Question authority, or be a slave to it

[edit on 19-12-2006 by the_individualist]

[edit on 19-12-2006 by the_individualist]

[edit on 19-12-2006 by the_individualist]

Originally posted by the_individualist
You simply refuse to research out of your own limited circle of dietary knowledge.

Nope, I research what is factual, and what is based on science, history, and can be supported by studies...

No, we are not paleolithic man, but we still have the same bodies as paleolithic man- how many times do I have to tell you: 10,000 years is NOT enough time to evolve into a so-called "healthy" diet of grains, fruits, etc.

How many times did I say we "evolved"? Not once. Not physically of course, but culturally. With modern science and medicine we can understand more than we did 10,000 years ago. This is why humans are living longer than ever now. Go ahead and say that they don't....or dodge the question. "Oh, more longevity, but not as good quality life..." etc etc, rant,

Are you BLIND?! Did you not read ANY of the links I posted (recently and previously)?!?!?

Yea...mostly biased and/or inconclusive.

More Ad Hominem BS- You declare Stanley as the epitome of unhealthy living simply because he manufactured '___', etc. Sure, his lifestyle is not to be emulated, but his dietary habits are- his drug habits are completely separate from his dietary ones. You simply cannot objectively analyze these things can you?

Unhealthy lifestyle choices are a good way to judge whether or not someone is capable of making sound decisions. Let's see...he manufactured a lot of acid, got high a lot, designed audio equipment for the dead. That makes him a pretty reliable source of information doesn't it? It's a credibility issue. I don't know anyone else who would insist, "well, he may be a drug dealer, but he sure has a good diet, so let's listen to what he has to say!" Any judge or jury in a court would heavily base their decision on the same thing- credibility. You seem to be the one who can't objectively analyze things. Of course since he has the same diet as you do, he must be right...so that makes him right. Right?

You seem to be unable to separate the individuals carrying the information from the information itself; in other words, the stigma that the person has gets rubbed onto everything else they touch. In contrast, you apparently take anything a "medical professional" or other "authority figure" says as sancrosanct truth. (The authoritarian conditioning of obedience just won't stop in this society will it?!) You go purely by Ethos, and totally disregard Logos entirely. It appears all that matters to you is "qualifications" and the like, as if these were an endearment sent from the holy Lord of Truth.

Right. Actually, anyone who really knows me would say I'm the exact opposite, and might even say I'm rebellious. I don't worship any authority figures, and I know there are a LOT of problems with current medical practices, especially regarding the pharmaceutical industry...I'm very skeptical of mainstream "authoritarian" ideas. But there is still a big difference between a person such as yourself, and a doctor, who would disagree with you. They attended medical school for several years, busting their asses, researching for hours about the human body, diet, medical conditions, etc. They know a lot more than you, regardless of their opinions. They know more because they put the time in to get the degree which makes them a doctor. They might not always be right, but they are much more likely to be right...

And again, you can't argue with history. You can't argue with the well-balanced diet being used successfully during the most prosperous time in the existence of humans, and being used up until this very day to produce the healthiest, longest living people to date...with the help of our modern medical science, which you seem to quickly disregard and attack. If it wasn't for all the evil, corrupted doctors and medical institutes, there's a good chance you wouldn't even be alive today, because one of your ancestors could have died before spreading the genes. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. I'm sure you would be much happier back in the stone age, eating meat, suffering through ailments, and not relying on modern medical knowledge, right?

I fail to see how you can place such blind faith in your modern-day God: Authority

Question authority, or be a slave to it

I don't like authority one bit. But I fail to see how you think you are "sticking it to the man", or turning the cheek to authority, by eating an all-meat diet. Like anyone really cares. You will only be hurting yourself, as well as anyone else who decides to follow your ideas. It is a gamble, because the only proven diet for healthy, long life, is the well-balanced one. If you want to question authority, I can think of a lot better ways for you to do that...listening to the dead and taking that tab of sunshine won't work either.

Originally posted by Shoktek

Nope, I research what is factual, and what is based on science, history, and can be supported by studies...

History is only 6,000 years long, and much of today's "science" pertaining to diet and health is commercially influenced- thus one should not rely on these two things alone.

How many times did I say we "evolved"? Not once. Not physically of course, but culturally. With modern science and medicine we can understand more than we did 10,000 years ago. This is why humans are living longer than ever now. Go ahead and say that they don't....or dodge the question. "Oh, more longevity, but not as good quality life..." etc etc, rant,

Modern medicine is merely sustaining a population of half-dead people: Every single senior I see and meet is diseased, dying, and dependent on prescription drugs for their life- THAT is not what I call living a full healthy life. That is a sick dependence on our crooked institutions. Just think of how much more fulfilling life would be if we combined the positive aspects of modern health care (surgery, sanitation, etc.) with a genuinely healthy diet: low to no-carb, high fat, and moderate protein. You don't even have to be a full-fledged carnivore- the main offenders are grains, etc.

If we are not evolved towards heavy plant-food products from agriculture, then how can you say they are healthy for us? This is ridiculous.

Yea...mostly biased and/or inconclusive.

I could probably say the same for your links- oh wait! you don't have any links! depsite you constantly calling me on this

Unhealthy lifestyle choices are a good way to judge whether or not someone is capable of making sound decisions. Let's see...he manufactured a lot of acid, got high a lot, designed audio equipment for the dead. That makes him a pretty reliable source of information doesn't it? It's a credibility issue. I don't know anyone else who would insist, "well, he may be a drug dealer, but he sure has a good diet, so let's listen to what he has to say!" Any judge or jury in a court would heavily base their decision on the same thing- credibility. You seem to be the one who can't objectively analyze things. Of course since he has the same diet as you do, he must be right...so that makes him right. Right?

Again, all it is to you is Ethos- totally irrational. In fact, when I first found out about Owsley and zero-carb, I too thought it was totally crazy and he was totally unreliable, but, being interested in the idea, I went and researched it myself. When I actually researched it, the pieces all fit together- I wasn't thinking "Oh I'm gonna prove carnivore right!" In fact, I was dissapointed at first- I loved my fruits and nuts, and didn't want to give them up, but the evidence for me was too big to ignore, so I decided to experiment with carnivore: and here I am, having found great health and energy.

Right. Actually, anyone who really knows me would say I'm the exact opposite, and might even say I'm rebellious. I don't worship any authority figures, and I know there are a LOT of problems with current medical practices, especially regarding the pharmaceutical industry...I'm very skeptical of mainstream "authoritarian" ideas. But there is still a big difference between a person such as yourself, and a doctor, who would disagree with you. They attended medical school for several years, busting their asses, researching for hours about the human body, diet, medical conditions, etc. They know a lot more than you, regardless of their opinions. They know more because they put the time in to get the degree which makes them a doctor. They might not always be right, but they are much more likely to be right...

Yeah, doctors who most likely researched form status quo sources- look, our institutions and their values are self-perpetuating, low-fat pro-grain doctors will write low-fat pro-grain sources . AND, doctors spend hardly ANY time researching nutrition, they mostly study the diseases, etc. themselves, and learn what junk medicines to stock the diseased patient up with. Some progressive doctors may be getting into nutrition moreso, but in general, nutrition is not a large part of the conventional medical establishment.

And again, you can't argue with history. You can't argue with the well-balanced diet being used successfully during the most prosperous time in the existence of humans, and being used up until this very day to produce the healthiest, longest living people to date...

The only reason we might be considered "healthier" is because we have better means of coping with things like viruses, parasites, physical trauma, etc. On the whole, people are suffering- my mother is losing her mind and practically faints from her dizziness all the time, my father is limping, coughing, and depressed, he can barely walk around the house anymore, my sister is always sick with something, constantly blowing her nose, at bedrest, ever so-dependent on her medications, my other sister is undernourished, tired, and depressive all the time- look, we are the most diseased culture on this planet, throughout our entire existence- anyone who says we are the healthiest people ever is living in delusion.

We are also far from "prosperous" in my opinion- ever since the dawn of capitalism, wealth and power has been concentrated in the hands of an elite minority- people are oppressed, brainwashed, and exploited- this isn't prosperity, this is a joke. This is a fabricated lie. In my opinion, the agricultural revolution is when we started spiralling into the degenerate state we exist in today.

Maybe I can't argue with history, but millions of years of a carnivorous existence can.

Originally posted by Shoktek
with the help of our modern medical science, which you seem to quickly disregard and attack. If it wasn't for all the evil, corrupted doctors and medical institutes, there's a good chance you wouldn't even be alive today, because one of your ancestors could have died before spreading the genes. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. I'm sure you would be much happier back in the stone age, eating meat, suffering through ailments, and not relying on modern medical knowledge, right?

I am not completely disregarding modern medicine- I strongly believe in the things I mentioned before- surgical operations and the like -I am disregarding the complete BS related to diet and health that it pumps out to its ignorant patients. I see people suffering from this crap advice every day, and I'm sick and f-ing tired of it- of course, this all goes back to the whole exploitative capitalist matrix we live under, robbing people of their health to extract profits from them in the form of worthless meds, etc., but I won't go into that in this thread.

I don't like authority one bit. But I fail to see how you think you are "sticking it to the man", or turning the cheek to authority, by eating an all-meat diet. Like anyone really cares. You will only be hurting yourself, as well as anyone else who decides to follow your ideas. It is a gamble, because the only proven diet for healthy, long life, is the well-balanced one. If you want to question authority, I can think of a lot better ways for you to do that...listening to the dead and taking that tab of sunshine won't work either.

HAHAHAHA Where the hell did I ever imply that "eating all meat" is "sticking it to the man"?!? I meant to say: researching and experimenting for yourself is accomplishing this- for example: I experimented with this diet myself, I didn't rely on someone else who probably doesn't have my health in their best interests to feed me their lies. Too many people are duped by the medical establishment and its lies, and end up becoming a major source for capitalist exploitation in the process- I am effectively subverting this normal cycle of dependence on the system. I don't care what you say: This diet is NOT hurting me, it is enabling my health, any deficiencies would have started manifesting themselves at five months, I'm sure, and yet I only feel better than when I ate a "balanced diet". On a balanced diet, I felt tired, moody, and depressed- guess what, this diet practically eliminated these problems- My mood is stable, I'm happy all the time, and I'm no longer so obsessive and neurotic. Something wasn't right on a "balanced" diet. Can depressed and sick people fight for progressive change in our corrupted society? Can sick people dependent on the medical establishment fight those in power and for a future of freedom? No. Revolutionaries who are healthy are enabling their minds and bodies to fight for their liberty against the matrix of oppression we live under. Whether carnivore makes you healthy, or a "balanced" diet makes you healthy, whatever works to get you in prime condition to turn the nose to authority- you're not gonna find this kind of diet on the USDA food pyramid I can tell you that, such a diet will only cripple your health. We cannot rely on the establishment to tell us how to eat, we need to do our own research if we are to find health, and this requires "subverting" their guidelines in a sense.

Alright, maybe we need to step back and make sure we are on the same page: what exactly, to you, is a balanced diet? The food pyramid? Low-carb? What?

And, for the record, I don't use recreational drugs or listen to the Dead.

[edit on 19-12-2006 by the_individualist]

[edit on 19-12-2006 by the_individualist]

Originally posted by the_individualist
Modern medicine is merely sustaining a population of half-dead people: Every single senior I see and meet is diseased, dying, and dependent on prescription drugs for their life- THAT is not what I call living a full healthy life. That is a sick dependence on our crooked institutions. Just think of how much more fulfilling life would be if we combined the positive aspects of modern health care (surgery, sanitation, etc.) with a genuinely healthy diet: low to no-carb, high fat, and moderate protein. You don't even have to be a full-fledged carnivore- the main offenders are grains, etc.

Your opinion. I know many seniors who live very happy lives. It may be depressing to think about when you are young and able, but aging is a natural part of life. Meat will not save you. It may accelerate the process.

I could probably say the same for your links- oh wait! you don't have any links! depsite you constantly calling me on this

Because I am not the one proposing this inane theory which goes against all of the standard knowledge of what is healthy. It is your job to prove your theory and diet superior to what we already use. So far you have not done that. Nothing revolutionary here, just someone who likes to eat a lot of meat and wants to feel good about it. I have read numerous articles and studies which show the benefits of whole grains, vegetables, and fruits. I have seen others which show the detrimental effects of eating too much meat. I personally think that a diet of higher fats and protein and less carbs is better than the standard recommended daily balance...and the typical american diet these days is high everything. But the balanced diet has proven consistent.

Again, all it is to you is Ethos- totally irrational. In fact, when I first found out about Owsley and zero-carb, I too thought it was totally crazy and he was totally unreliable, but, being interested in the idea, I went and researched it myself. When I actually researched it, the pieces all fit together- I wasn't thinking "Oh I'm gonna prove carnivore right!" In fact, I was dissapointed at first- I loved my fruits and nuts, and didn't want to give them up, but the evidence for me was too big to ignore, so I decided to experiment with carnivore: and here I am, having found great health and energy.

Good for you, I hope it lasts...

Yeah, doctors who most likely researched form status quo sources- look, our institutions and their values are self-perpetuating, low-fat pro-grain doctors will write low-fat pro-grain sources . AND, doctors spend hardly ANY time researching nutrition, they mostly study the diseases, etc. themselves, and learn what junk medicines to stock the diseased patient up with. Some progressive doctors may be getting into nutrition moreso, but in general, nutrition is not a large part of the conventional medical establishment.

Versus you, who most likely researched from unproven, unsupported, theories and opinions being propagated online. Sorry, but I'll take the status quo over John Brown's theory of caveman dieting. Everyone is incredibly over-medicated, yes. I personally think the main problems in our food are fluoridated water, too many pesticides and herbicides, genetically engineered foods, as well as steroids and hormones used in animals. Commercially raised animals will come to you fresh and full of growth hormones and steroids...with an excess of fat because they sit in a cage and are pumped full of drugs. That's really getting back to nature eating their meat...

The only reason we might be considered "healthier" is because we have better means of coping with things like viruses, parasites, physical trauma, etc. On the whole, people are suffering- my mother is losing her mind and practically faints from her dizziness all the time, my father is limping, coughing, and depressed, he can barely walk around the house anymore, my sister is always sick with something, constantly blowing her nose, at bedrest, ever so-dependent on her medications, my other sister is undernourished, tired, and depressive all the time- look, we are the most diseased culture on this planet, throughout our entire existence- anyone who says we are the healthiest people ever is living in delusion.

People have always suffered. "Birth leads to suffering." The longer we live, and the more we pollute our environments, the more health problems we will have...and the more pills we will invent to sell in order to cure them. But we still live longer. So take it however you want.

We are also far from "prosperous" in my opinion- ever since the dawn of capitalism, wealth and power has been concentrated in the hands of an elite minority- people are oppressed, brainwashed, and exploited- this isn't prosperity, this is a joke. This is a fabricated lie. In my opinion, the agricultural revolution is when we started spiralling into the degenerate state we exist in today.

I agree with this, but it has nothing to do with eating meat...

Originally posted by the_individualist
Alright, maybe we need to step back and make sure we are on the same page: what exactly, to you, is a balanced diet? The food pyramid? Low-carb? What?

If it works for you, then fine, I am interested in seeing your results...and obviously you are pleased so far. The only reason I am arguing with you is mainly for the sake of others who will read this thread and might decide this is a good idea...in the short term it won't do any harm, but I do believe it's gambling with your health in the long term.

I think a balanced diet is one that consists of a little of everything...meat/protein, carbs (potatoes, rice, oatmeal, etc) fibrous vegetables and fruits, as well as healthy fats from sources such as peanuts or avocados (fish as well), eggs, milk. Basically well balanced. Although the food should all preferably organic. The meat should be organically raised and free range, or hunted in the wild.

Back in paleolithic times a group of people might make a kill one day and eat a lot, and a little the next...it wasn't like just ordering up a slab of beef for dinner and chowing down 3 times a day. People have never eaten that much meat. And yes, hunters and gatherers did eat fruits and vegetables. There are plenty of varieties of wild fruits and vegetables throughout the globe that people have eaten for years.

I don't know anyone who would want to give up eating their favorite fruits. And I know only of studies that show how beneficial they are to your health. Same with vegetables and other good carb sources...in moderation of course. I don't consume any high fructose corn syrup, or drink any soda at all. No high sugar foods or anything like that. But I don't see anything wrong with natural forms of carbohydrates...same with fat and protein. Taking any one thing to excess though (like eating all meat) has never been good, no matter what it is.

And with zero-carb I guess you don't consume any alcohol? I noticed you said you only have bowel movements once every few days...that's usually not a good sign. You may feel healthy, but it would be a good idea to get a basic medical exam with kidney/liver functioning, as well as a colonoscopy considering you don't ingest any fiber. You could be pretty backed up, and that can eventually lead to colon cancer.


[edit on 19-12-2006 by Shoktek]

Originally posted by Shoktek

Your opinion. I know many seniors who live very happy lives. It may be depressing to think about when you are young and able, but aging is a natural part of life. Meat will not save you. It may accelerate the process.

Aging is a natural part of life, but what I see in seniors is not aging, it is a lifetime of dietary damage- saggy blotchy skin, no energy levels, chronic degenerative diseases (physical and mental)- that is not aging, aging would be getting grey hair, maybe packing on a few pounds around your belly, etc.. A carnivorous diet, with its reduced need of insulin (among many other factors), does not have such bodily damage occurring(insulin is suspected of causing tissue damage when in the bloodstream in excess- Atherosclerosis: n Insulin Dependent Disease?) Insulin is also highly correlated with aging. As a carnivore, your insulin levels will never be as sky high as a carbohydrate eater. Again: show me your studies that say meat causes aging- the only weight you seem to be carrying at this point is "The experts agree with me and not you".

Because I am not the one proposing this inane theory which goes against all of the standard knowledge of what is healthy. It is your job to prove your theory and diet superior to what we already use. So far you have not done that. Nothing revolutionary here, just someone who likes to eat a lot of meat and wants to feel good about it. I have read numerous articles and studies which show the benefits of whole grains, vegetables, and fruits. I have seen others which show the detrimental effects of eating too much meat. I personally think that a diet of higher fats and protein and less carbs is better than the standard recommended daily balance...and the typical american diet these days is high everything. But the balanced diet has proven consistent.

There you go making assumptions again- I never really liked fresh meat very much at all before this diet- you seem to think I said "Oh I love meat oh so much, I wish I could eat it all the time! Oh boy! I'll become a carnivore!!!" How stupid- in fact, I would have sooner opted for an all-banana diet if I went based off of that thinking. I did not develop my taste for flesh until I had been on this diet for awhile.

Look, did you not agree with me that many dietary researchers have someone's commercial interests to serve? The grain, fruit and vegetable industry is huge compared to the animal foods industry, and has much more extensive influence. What do you think is more cost-efficient: a living breathing animal who needs fresh clean water, high-nutrient food throughout the day, shelter to protect it from predators, antibiotics, hormones, etc., or a simple plant who only requires fertilized soil, some water, and pesticide? Let me tell you, plant foods are big business, because they are so cost-effective. Why do you think hormones and crap are used with livestock? Because otherwise they wouldn't even be able to pay off their initial investment, that's how much less cost-effective it is.

Whole grains are worthless, but many people believe they are somehow "healthy" and "magical". Why? Because of all the pseudo-science that is propped up around them, funded by the industry. Seriously, it's like putting cardboard through your intestines- what little nutrients it has are interfered with absorption by all the antinutrients in the grain (phytates and tannins). Face it, grains are for birds, vegetables are for deer, and fruits are for gorillas. They are worthless for the human body- name one, just one essential nutrient found in plants that I cannot get from animals.

Everyone is incredibly over-medicated, yes. I personally think the main problems in our food are fluoridated water, too many pesticides and herbicides, genetically engineered foods, as well as steroids and hormones used in animals. Commercially raised animals will come to you fresh and full of growth hormones and steroids...with an excess of fat because they sit in a cage and are pumped full of drugs. That's really getting back to nature eating their meat...

Yes, those are all factors in the demise of our health. However, animals raised for food are, well, animals- they always have hormones etc. coursing through their blood, no matter if it's free range, 100% organic, or what have you- you are eating hormones no matter what. I believe that they have found the amount of added hormones in the final cuts of meat are lower than that of a pregnant steer who is off hormones. Of course, we do have the issue of bacterial resistance to antibiotics...

The extra fat is essential being a modern carnivore, because as far as I know, things like brains are practically outlawed due to the BSE hysteria (which I think is overhyped). One could, of course, just supplement with extra suet or something if they buy lean grass fed cuts (which is probably more in line with what we evovled on).

So yes, there is extra fat and whatnot, but on the whole, it is still a very wholesome food to consume- grass fed would probably have more nutrients, but hey, supermarket meat is more nutrient dense than any organic fruits or vegetables you can find. Overall, yes there's a difference between organic, grass fed meat and factory-farmed, but the difference is less than many people believe.

Either way as a carnivore, whether you eat fatty cuts from factory-farmed cows, or lean ones from free ranging bison, either way you will eat the same amount of fat on this diet (whether from the cut itself or supplemented with suet, marrow, etc.), because otherwise you will succumb to rabbit sickness- the article by Stephen D. Phinney I linked (which you obviously did not even read), provided an explanation of why high fat is essential on low to no-carb. Too low of fat levels is the reason why many low-carbers complain of headache and ill-feeling. I experienced this myself- when I first started this diet, I only ate straight lean cuts, no supplemented fat, and the first few days I sort of had a headache and felt a little off, but as soon as I started adding some suet in there; Bam! I felt 1,000 times better! I felt six years old again once my body adapted to using the abundant caloric content of fatty acids.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by the_individualist]

i love carbs.


this all goes back to the food pyramid, whatever was so wrong with it?

vegetarian food pyramid



now one could minscontrue it as to some sort of occult magic, buuuuuuuuut

it works fine imo an that'd be whole other topic


old skew pyramid



well balanced diet > all imo

[edit on 20-12-2006 by Lysergic]

Originally posted by Shoktek
People have always suffered. "Birth leads to suffering." The longer we live, and the more we pollute our environments, the more health problems we will have...and the more pills we will invent to sell in order to cure them. But we still live longer. So take it however you want.

Yes, people have always suffered, but the degree of suffering in this modern era is completely ridiculous and on the whole unnecessary.

If it works for you, then fine, I am interested in seeing your results...and obviously you are pleased so far. The only reason I am arguing with you is mainly for the sake of others who will read this thread and might decide this is a good idea...in the short term it won't do any harm, but I do believe it's gambling with your health in the long term.

Lol, yeah, why else would I start a thread about it? Well, in 10, maybe 30 years time, we'll know whether it's good in the long term- all the evidence I have seen indicates it is great on the long-term, but I am my own experiment- whether I live on in with health and energy on this diet remains to be seen.

I think a balanced diet is one that consists of a little of everything...meat/protein, carbs (potatoes, rice, oatmeal, etc) fibrous vegetables and fruits, as well as healthy fats from sources such as peanuts or avocados (fish as well), eggs, milk. Basically well balanced. Although the food should all preferably organic. The meat should be organically raised and free range, or hunted in the wild.

Okay, that's what I think of when I say balanced too.

Back in paleolithic times a group of people might make a kill one day and eat a lot, and a little the next...it wasn't like just ordering up a slab of beef for dinner and chowing down 3 times a day. People have never eaten that much meat. And yes, hunters and gatherers did eat fruits and vegetables. There are plenty of varieties of wild fruits and vegetables throughout the globe that people have eaten for years.

Well, like I said before, paleolithic humans followed the herds (which is probably what eventually led to domestication), and they were skilled hunters- they had to be, otherwise we wouldn't be alive here nitpicking on the computer! I still hold that plants were not as edible back then.

I don't know anyone who would want to give up eating their favorite fruits. And I know only of studies that show how beneficial they are to your health. Same with vegetables and other good carb sources...in moderation of course. I don't consume any high fructose corn syrup, or drink any soda at all. No high sugar foods or anything like that. But I don't see anything wrong with natural forms of carbohydrates...same with fat and protein. Taking any one thing to excess though (like eating all meat) has never been good, no matter what it is.

To be honest, I have absolutely no desire for fruits or any other sweet foods anymore- straight meat and fat is so satiating, I do not want anything else. In fact, a sugary food such as fruit would probably make me gag- it seems a pleasurable response to sugar is learned (Mom's milk is sweet, afterall)

Well, the way most carnivores see it, carbs are carb are sugar are carbs- we feel there really aren't any "good" carbs, as it all gets broken down into glucose anyways.

And with zero-carb I guess you don't consume any alcohol? I noticed you said you only have bowel movements once every few days...that's usually not a good sign. You may feel healthy, but it would be a good idea to get a basic medical exam with kidney/liver functioning, as well as a colonoscopy considering you don't ingest any fiber. You could be pretty backed up, and that can eventually lead to colon cancer.

No, I personally do not use any recreational drugs- alcohol or otherwise. Besides your disagreement on my diet, I think you would agree I have a healthy lifestyle- I get plenty of sleep every night, I exercise (weight-lifting and horseback riding) at least three-four times a week, I get good sunlight, but not too much as to get burned, I drink plenty of water, I shower daily, brush my teeth (even though there is no carb damage, I do it anyway), all that good stuff.

Well, it may sound like I am backed up, but trust me- I have experienced severe constipation as a kid, I know what that backed up feeling feels like, but I can tell you I am not constipated or backed up as a carnivore- it seems there is simply less matter in my digestive tract- after all, fiber is what feeds the abundant mass of bacteria that people must evict every day. Since I am not feeding the bacteria in my colon so much, it just comes after that I have less dead bacterial matter to poop out. When I do have bowel movements, they are very easily passed- which also indictes I am not constipated, as constipation is defined as "infrequent and difficultly/incompletely passed bowel movements"- the infrequent part does not apply to a carnivore, and the difficulty is not occurring, so I think there's no problems.

That said, I have been wanting to get a medical examination for awhile now, not out of worry, but just curious as to see using some objective tests how carnivore has affected my overall health- haha who knows, maybe I'd be in for a rude awakening? But if my subjective feelings of well-being on this diet are accurate, everything should be a-ok. Probably the only 'negative' thing I can think of is my mental alertness- carbs often make people sleepy and sleep soundly; my mind is so charged on this diet, that even the slightest noise wakes me, and for awhile I was getting to bed pretty late (I think it's because I relied on the crash from eating carbs at the end of the day to get me to sleep), I think I have adjusted to sleep well with a hyper-alert mind though- I am now on my normal sleeping routine, and wake up early like before (I'm typing this at 8:00 right now). The only problem is when someone comes down and starts talking while I'm in the middle of sleeping- ooh is that annoying!

[edit on 20-12-2006 by the_individualist]

[edit on 20-12-2006 by the_individualist]

Originally posted by Samhain
I eat tums like there's no tomorrow.I have suffered from chronic heartburn since i was a small child,like two or three times a day.
A few years ago i went on a zero carb diet for about 3 months.Not only did the weight drop off alot quicker than i expected,but i didnt have heartburn(or nearly as much gas)the entire time i was on the zero carb diet.

Samhain, I found the same thing. I was actually getting reflux that choked me in my sleep and when I'm on LC dieting, I -never- have reflux or heart burn. My cholesterol also dropped as I lost weight.

I was amazed,and felt a lot better.When i eat i tend to feel tired and irratable,especially after a large meal.(lots of carbs)
But i didn't get that from a zero carb diet.
Only bad side effect i noticed was,when i got hungry,i had to eat.It was like having low blood-sugar,i would get tired and shaky.
Needless to say,a zero carb diet is hard to maintain.Especially if you run a pizza parlor like me

I'm currently doing an all turkey diet, with 4 fish oil capsules and one Magnesium tablet and one Potassium tablet. In addition I drink several bottles of spring water with each meal. It's called a Protein Sparing Modified Fast. That means it's similar to fasting, but you just eat protein.

Thought I'd share the experience since most MD will take you off of Meat and Fat when you have reflux. I've found by experience it's just the opposite.

Double post - browser glitch



[edit on 30-12-2006 by Badge01]

My sister lost a ton of weight on no-carb. She looks great and feels better than she has in many years.

I say if it works for you, go for it!