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N' korea to test nuclear weapon

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posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 03:34 PM
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A military strike?

What about Seoul? Do we just not give a damn that SK's capital will be turned into nothing but rubble?




posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by RedDragon
NK is #ing small.. could they actually detonate a test nuke on their on soil without harming lots of innocent civilians? and would some of the radiation spill over into south korea?


Where you been, old son? Have you not seen the news being flashed around the world? North Korea has flown in the face of world opinion and stuck two fingers up to America's face with a great big
you message!

Good on them! Now they are an accredited superpower, with nuclear weapons, nobody will be tempted to push them around, well not too much anyway!

After all, according to that idiot in the White House, NK is a rogue country, ruled by a demonic despot, who wants to plunge the world into a world of hurt. [Funny, I thought that was GW Bush]

Having said all that, I very much suspect that White House foreign policy is just about to change for the better.

Perhaps GWB ought to have a long, hard look at NK and decide if South Korea will be willing to reap the whirlwind of NK reaction to US reactions and sponsored sanctions.

Always remember that China too, is a nuclear nation and they support NK and you really don't want to mess with them!



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 04:40 PM
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there's an article that touches on the underground nuke being 4.2 on the richter

and some guessing that either the nuke was a larger 15+ kiloton device
that might of fizzled & didn't ignite the plutonium, so the 1 kiloton boom was just the primer.

OR

there is speculation that NK intentionally said that a large 12-20 kiloton device
was planned....but they expressly developed mini nukes of ~1kiloton because
those types of smaller devices are more easily put on a variety of delivery vehicles


THEN

the last paragraph gives lip, to a almost rumor, that the device was actually a nutron bomb device designed to produce megadoses of high energy radiation rather than explosion power...

www.alertnet.org...



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio

the last paragraph gives lip, to a almost rumor, that the device was actually a nutron bomb device designed to produce megadoses of high energy radiation rather than explosion power...

www.alertnet.org...



I highly doubt the probability of it being a neutron bomb, since it's relatively high tech, and only US, France, and China are said to possess such "cutting edge" technology, none are ever mass produced to serve their military -- due to its characteristic -- designed solely to kill life forms using radiation.


[edit on 10/9/2006 by warset]



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by fritz

Originally posted by RedDragon
NK is #ing small.. could they actually detonate a test nuke on their on soil without harming lots of innocent civilians? and would some of the radiation spill over into south korea?


Where you been, old son? Have you not seen the news being flashed around the world? North Korea has flown in the face of world opinion and stuck two fingers up to America's face with a great big
you message!

Good on them! Now they are an accredited superpower, with nuclear weapons, nobody will be tempted to push them around, well not too much anyway!

After all, according to that idiot in the White House, NK is a rogue country, ruled by a demonic despot, who wants to plunge the world into a world of hurt. [Funny, I thought that was GW Bush]

Having said all that, I very much suspect that White House foreign policy is just about to change for the better.

Perhaps GWB ought to have a long, hard look at NK and decide if South Korea will be willing to reap the whirlwind of NK reaction to US reactions and sponsored sanctions.

Always remember that China too, is a nuclear nation and they support NK and you really don't want to mess with them!


Silly boy, go take your pills.
First, Superpower-status has little to do with Nuclear Weapons. Being as isolated as North Korea is from the world, there is little doubt in my mind they will never achieve such a thing.
Second, yes. North Korea is a rogue state. With a rather (metaphorically) possessed leader, who has been playing war-games for ages, and tempting the DMZ consistently.

Next -- Have you missed that Russia, China, and Japan have also sported such sanctions? As have most other countries involved? All of them?
I like how you assume North Korea will be striking the South, immediately after calling the Bush Administration, the 'violent group'.

Last: China all-ready denounced North Korea on their actions. Read up on it.



posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 11:30 PM
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If its a nuclear explsion then anywhere between 1-5 kilotons is my guess.
If its LESS than 1 KT then there are doubts of it being a 'succesful nuclear test' in the first place because:

1)Subkiloton yields are easily achievable with conventional explosives
2)subKT weapons are more 'tactical' theatre weapons and thus involve more technology if compact.
3)It may mean that the NK test was not a complete successful and it kind of fizzed out..



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 01:26 AM
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I personally think that any nation state armed with nuclear weapons should be regarded as a superpower. I also think said nation should be taken even more seriously.

The Big Stick approach will no longer work with such nations because if they decide to go their own way [NK, India/Pakistan] what are we going to do, threaten them with military action? Oh, and don't forget they are a nuclear power!

Whilst China publicly denounces NK as irresponsible, and publicly calls for sanctions, let's think on........................

China supports NK as much as the US supports Israel. China bankrolls NK, feeds NK and probably clothes her as well. Militarily, I suspect China provides much - if not all, the military hardware NK uses.

If the brown stuff hit the fan, millions of NK refugees will stream north across the border and settle in China.

Much better for the Chinese government to publicly shame NK, publicly denounce NK whilst continuing to support NK in any way they can.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 03:35 AM
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Nations which have nuclear weapons are not superpowers. Not possible. All they can do is cause destruction and chaos...not build anything lasting and useful to thier people. They only produce things useful to thier regimes.

Super Powers are economic super powers ...not just military powers.

If you want to know a super power..they produce a variety of enough goods for export as well as import. All I have to do is go to my local stores and look at the goods on the shelves to see that NK is not a super power in the world economic arena. They can only cause chaos...ordo ob chao...order from chaos.

To bad they do not teach this in public schools or in the United Nations programs.
By the way ..this also means the United Nations is not a super power either...they are just a bunch of showmen. That much is obvious by the history of the UN.
The UN is not going to do anything about this either...just put on the show...as usual.

Orangetom



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:01 AM
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Yeah Orangetom...............I know.

But you cannot talk to or deal with a country that has a nuclear weapon [albeit only 1 left
] as if she was a naughty little child who needs a damned good spanking!

North Korea now has nuclear weapons and as such, sould be treated with kid gloves otherwise, what will the despotic dictator do to get back at the very big, bad US led world out there.

It is no use for the US and it's puppets [UK/UN] to try and force NK to take action or change direction if it does not want to. Similarly, the US/UK/UN is trying to force Iran down a path it does not want to take.

Iran is, for whatever reason, is trying to make enriched uranium ]to generate electricity! Nothing evil or sinister in that.

But force nuclear powers to do things they don't want to do.....................

Imagine one very
off NK despotic dictator exporting nuclear technology or even a weapon to Iran, in an attempt to get even with the US/UK/UN coalition.

Yes a superpower has an economic and industrial base. It's citizens enjoy wealth, health and on the whole, are happy with their lot. But that economic and industrial base alone does not make a superpower. I still believe having a superweapon like a nuclear device, is akin to being a superpower, if only because that nation state has joined a very exclusive club and not many other countries are able to join this club.

Therefore in my opinion, North korea by virtue of it's nuclear weapon[s] is a superpower - but admittedly, not in the true sense on the word!



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 04:20 AM
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Heres a link on the defencetech website that states the nuke was a dud


www.defensetech.org...

You're thinking, 3.6, 4.2, in that neighborhood. Seismic scales, like the Richter, are logarithmic, so that neighborhood can be pretty big.

But even at 4.2, the test was probablya dud.

Estimating the yield is tricky business, because it depends on the geology of the test site. The South Koreans called the yield half a kiloton (550 tons), which is more or less -- a factor of two -- consistent with the relationship for tests in that yield range at the Soviet Shagan test site:

Mb = 4.262 + .973LogW

Where Mb is the magnitude of the body wave, and W is the yield.

3.58-3.7 gives you a couple hundred tons (not kilotons), which is pretty close in this business unless you're really math positive. The same equation, given the US estimate of 4.2, yields (pun intended) around a kiloton.




posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 05:35 AM
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Zenem, please read my thread, 'Characteristicks and Effects of a Nuclear Explosion'. In this thread, I explain the 'size' or yield of a nuclear device.

A Sub-Kiloton is deemed to be less than [] a Thousand pounds of TNT - eg 10 Kts or 10,000 Lbs of TNT;

A Megaton is deemed to be equal to [=] or more than [>] a Million pounds of
TNT - eg 25 Mt or 25M tonnes of TNT.

A 'Yield' is deemed to be the explosive power of the weapon detonated. You must also remember that 'yields' can now be dialled in to individual warheads, prior to delivery.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by fritz
A 'Yield' is deemed to be the explosive power of the weapon detonated. You must also remember that 'yields' can now be dialled in to individual warheads, prior to delivery.


That would be extremely stupid IMO.
Why restrict the yield of your device and thus waste fuel.
It would be simpler and obviously more cost efficient to build devices with varying yields, thus using all the fissile material.
However there are some rare pre-empting snap-count scenarios where variable yields would be plausible.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by fritz
A 'Yield' is deemed to be the explosive power of the weapon detonated. You must also remember that 'yields' can now be dialled in to individual warheads, prior to delivery.


That would be extremely stupid IMO.
Why restrict the yield of your device and thus waste fuel.
It would be simpler and obviously more cost efficient to build devices with varying yields, thus using all the fissile material.
However there are some rare pre-empting snap-count scenarios where variable yields would be plausible.


Well my fine friend, we are all entitled to our opinion. Mine is based on my being a Defence Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Warfare instructor of 28 years standing.

I have forgotten more about Nuclear weapons, payloads, range, type and yields and radiation than most people can imagine.

I, too, was of the opinion that 'dial-a-yield' technology was a waste of fissionable material - until - I remembered that individual MIRVs can be manufactured from fissionable materiels and, when detonated, add to the 'yield' of the weapon.

If you take U238 or U239 as examples, both are extremely hard materials and can be bored, lathed or fabricated in to any shape you desire.

Indeed, many MIRV cones are manufactured from U238/239 for that particular reason, being able to withstand the tremendous heat and atmospheric pressure caused by re-entry and is now the preferred method of manufacture of MIRV warheads.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:13 AM
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Fritz

Whats your opinion? Do you think it was a dud or did it yield what it should have?



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by fritz
Well my fine friend, we are all entitled to our opinion. Mine is based on my being a Defence Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Warfare instructor of 28 years standing.

I have forgotten more about Nuclear weapons, payloads, range, type and yields and radiation than most people can imagine.

I, too, was of the opinion that 'dial-a-yield' technology was a waste of fissionable material - until - I remembered that individual MIRVs can be manufactured from fissionable materiels and, when detonated, add to the 'yield' of the weapon.

If you take U238 or U239 as examples, both are extremely hard materials and can be bored, lathed or fabricated in to any shape you desire.

Indeed, many MIRV cones are manufactured from U238/239 for that particular reason, being able to withstand the tremendous heat and atmospheric pressure caused by re-entry and is now the preferred method of manufacture of MIRV warheads.


Interesting..Where did you instruct may I inquire?
My understanding is based purely on reading and observing N - weapons construction for say the last 5 years or so..
again purely a hobby, nothing more.. I hope that doesn't put me at a disadvantage
in comprehending your reasoning


Maybe you can assist me in a couple of questions owing to your years of experience thus increasing my own knowledge:

1) How does constructing a fissionable chassis implement variable yields? A commoner(such as myself) would conclude that the same would just be used to 'enhance' the effects of a detonation if at all anything, while the variability of yield would solely lie in the N-core itself.
Again I am not contesting the technology of controling yields, I am debating the very purpose of the same.If MIRV chassis can add to the 'effect' then great, go ahead and use them to the fullest in EVERY single detonation.

2) Again U238 is only a fission inhibitor to my knowledge. Its the U235 which is the magic stuff. So if you're constructing chassis wiht U238 that would not be fissile.
U239 is a result of U238 absorbing a neutron which then in turn beta decays to give P239-highly fissile. Really not getting how these would add to the detonation..
where is your neutron source?

3)Wouldn't reentry temperatures constitute a potential hazard for chassis made of U238/U239?

EDIT:Eagerly await your response and am hoping that you can provide some documentation of such MIRVs so I can read up on my own as well..

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Daedalus3]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by Zenem
Fritz

Whats your opinion? Do you think it was a dud or did it yield what it should have?


I think it is far too early to state with any authority that the detonation was or was not a nuclear test. The NK government has released few details and until they do, each person will have to make up his or her mind.

However, in my opinion, I would 'suggest' the test conducted was a Sub Terranian test. There would be no Nuclear Cloud above ground as some observers have stated seeing, and neither would there be any radiation worth measuring. (Only X Rays and Gamma Rays can and do travel for any distance.

But, considering the test was supposed to be of a Sub-Kiloton device/weapon and conducted deep underground (in a valley floor between two mountain ranges) I seriously doubt that any radiation produced by the detonation would escape into the atmosphere to be picked up by monitoring equipment hundreds of miles from the test site.

There is a whiff of disinformation and rumour mongering yet again and people are beginning to let this thing get out of all proportion.



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 02:55 PM
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I always thought the Dial-a-Yeild function was only on Thermo nuclear weapons where just at the last moment, tritium was injected into the core of the primary to absorbe neutrons hence limit the effect onthe secondary... Correct if im wrong, that was just off the top of my head. I would expect thermo nuclear weapons to be a bit above North Korea as a first attempt?

Sorry, my bad, explained here en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 10-10-2006 by Solarity]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 10:07 PM
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very true solidarity..
nobody said dial-a-yield was NK thing..
I was just examining the logic of the whole concept..



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by fritz
Yeah Orangetom...............I know.

But you cannot talk to or deal with a country that has a nuclear weapon [albeit only 1 left
] as if she was a naughty little child who needs a damned good spanking!

North Korea now has nuclear weapons and as such, sould be treated with kid gloves otherwise, what will the despotic dictator do to get back at the very big, bad US led world out there.

It is no use for the US and it's puppets [UK/UN] to try and force NK to take action or change direction if it does not want to. Similarly, the US/UK/UN is trying to force Iran down a path it does not want to take.

Iran is, for whatever reason, is trying to make enriched uranium ]to generate electricity! Nothing evil or sinister in that.

But force nuclear powers to do things they don't want to do.....................

Imagine one very
off NK despotic dictator exporting nuclear technology or even a weapon to Iran, in an attempt to get even with the US/UK/UN coalition.

Yes a superpower has an economic and industrial base. It's citizens enjoy wealth, health and on the whole, are happy with their lot. But that economic and industrial base alone does not make a superpower. I still believe having a superweapon like a nuclear device, is akin to being a superpower, if only because that nation state has joined a very exclusive club and not many other countries are able to join this club.

Therefore in my opinion, North korea by virtue of it's nuclear weapon[s] is a superpower - but admittedly, not in the true sense on the word!




Fritz...public schooling..right..

North Korea is in fact ..when they get the bomb..and thoroughly refine it ..going to sell it to the world market for capital and goods it despirately needs. You can count on it. Only a publicly educated politician would put their head in the sand and ignore this as a possibility.

However, we have alot of publicaly educated politicians trying to pass themselves off with the mantel of leadership. Not for the public's intrest..but for the whoredom of the political partys. Obviously I dont agree with this either. This is what happens when we follow the European model. We put our heads in the sand while events drag us into the mire. Just like Europe. I have known for awhile now that Iran too will get the technology eventually...I am counting on it. And they are not in it for Peaceful purposes. YOu can sell that one to someone else. THere is no religion of Peace here. This should be obvious to those who have overcome public school education...and can watch world events.

The UN is not going to change direction..The UN has had only one direction since its founding..the UN direction. It will not change now. No need to change now. This is clear. THe UN is mostly about appearences...not actual results. This whiney, snot nosed organization needs to leave this country and set up shop in Europe or Africa where they can really do some good. But then they could not have the perks they take for granted in a city like New York. They might then have to really set down and do some work..not just styling and profiling...putting on the show without any substance.


A naught little child who needs a spanking...
What on earth are you thinking. Nevel Chamberlin already covered this ground before Nuclear Weapons were devised. Obviously you dont need nuclear weapons to kill millions and millions. What on earth are you thinking??

While we are establishing the moral high ground here...let me level the playing ground out for us.
There are no good guys out here...including us. Understand?? None. There never were any good guys out here.

Orangetom



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
They have every right to make nuclear weapons, as they see it, its an agressive america attacking countires WITHOUT UN approval. Added to fact that America refuses to sign a treaty with North Korea which gurantees the US wont attack it like iraq, makes the north koreans feel quite edgy


It's interesting! In terms of your logic, if US still attack NK, after they test nuke, then no more will continue to test new?




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