N' korea to test nuclear weapon

The IAEA compliance is only for NPT signatories and North withdrew fromt he NPT sometime back.
Anybody has the right to 'legally' build nuclear weapons if they can and want to.

Of cause any nation has the right to build and test nuclear weapons within their own boarders so long as it doesn't affect the world environmentally. The thing I think that is most looked upon nowadays is the reason. N'Korea is today controlled be a narcissistic crazy dictator and now that he is planning to test nuclear weapons people might, and have all the reason in the world, to begin giving the nation some strange looks.

In the long term I believe every nation including N'Korea knows of the effects of a nuclear war for the entire world. Short term effects would annihilate the enemy good and quick but in the long term the realization that "oh no, nuclear bombs make fallout" come into effect and hence forth nuclear winter arrives and radioactive rain and snow will kill much of the life on earth.



With that said I think no nation these days would conduct a nuclear attack for any reason as it will only result in the death of too many people, including those of the attacking nation not just by retaliatory attacks but also be the consequential effects caused by radiation


[edit on 4-10-2006 by funny_pom]

Originally posted by chinawhite
They have every right to make nuclear weapons, as they see it, its an agressive america attacking countires WITHOUT UN approval.

No country needs UN approval to attack another country, to imply otherwise is to buy into the importance of the UN. Why do you think people treat the UN as a joke?

I don't know how much they rewrite history in China, I have heard it happens often... but last time there was a war in Korea it wasn't the US who did the invading. You should probably take a good look in the mirror before you start accusing other countries of being the aggressors in Korea.

Originally posted by darksided

Originally posted by chinawhite
They have every right to make nuclear weapons, as they see it, its an agressive america attacking countires WITHOUT UN approval.

No country needs UN approval to attack another country, to imply otherwise is to buy into the importance of the UN. Why do you think people treat the UN as a joke?

I don't know how much they rewrite history in China, I have heard it happens often... but last time there was a war in Korea it wasn't the US who did the invading. You should probably take a good look in the mirror before you start accusing other countries of being the aggressors in Korea.

Nobody REWRITES history, it's just ppl look at history through their own biased mind,
and ppl apply different meanings to the same history due to their different point of view.

the UN saw NK invade SK, so it helped SK to push back, and it was ok at that point.
HOWEVER, the catch here is, that UN didn't STOP at the 38th parallel, where they should, instead, they tried to take over the entire NK, and that's where china kicks in, and calling it an invasion to NK.

In this case:
---the US emphasizes only on the first part of the war where NK first invade SK, and they acted like heros to protect SK and pushed NK out.
---China, on the other hand, only emphasizes the second part of the war where UN marched across the 38 parrallel line, where they supposed to stop, and invade NK, and the chinese acted like heros to protect NK.

see, nobody writes history, it's just ppl looking at things differently. Through most chinese ppl's point of view, americans "rewrite" history all the time, but that's indeed not entirely true either.

PS. most ppl DO NOT treat UN as a joke; however, the ones who think that they are above the UN do treat it as a joke (namingly the americans).

due to the unstability of NK, I am strongly opposed to the idea of NK having its own Nuclear weapons, the out come can be catastrophic.

US should try to please NK, instead of threaten it, cuz threatening will only make NK more eager to possess its own nukes.

also, the US should try harder to please china and russia, to gain more support from them, in this way, there will be more invisible pressure given to NK to let it stop its nuclear program.

[edit on 10/4/2006 by warset]

I just saw this new news published on CNN:
"China calls for calls for N. Korea restraint"

China, North Korea's closest political ally, warned its neighbor against exacerbating tensions already simmering over the hermetic Stalinist country's nuclear ambitions.

"We hope that the DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea's -- the north's official name) will keep calm and restrained on the nuclear test issue," Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said in a statement reported by Chinese state media.

www.cnn.com...

[edit on 10/4/2006 by warset]

Good to see people here who know a bit about history

When one government makes an agreement with another government, the agreement can't just be ignored because of a party change.

That's ridiculous.

As far as I'm concerned and what I've seen of Western Media propaganda and what I have read about NK, the US is a hell of a lot more dangerous than NK.

DYOR.

Cheers

JS

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by sardion2000
prohibited by international law.

Which law?

If you trace their nuclear program back to the begining, you will find that 1994 is a important year. They signed the Agreed Framework between the USA and the DPRK which had the following points

- The international community would build two LWR to replace North Koreas GM power plants
- 500,000 tons of oil to be delivered each year until 2003 to compensate for the lost the GM power plant
- Normalized relations
- Lift Economic sanctions
- A formal treaty of sorts to the DPRK that america wont attack them conventionally or with nuclear weapons
- Remain part of the NPT
- IAEA inspections and full compliance with the IAEA


Thus far, the only thing the US did was ship mediocre amount of fuel to the North Koreans while North korea furfilled its part, step by step. Its not north korea to blame, its the Americans

Originally posted by k4rupt

Well things seem to be hotting up, with this and my last thread about China.

What does this have to do with China? I think you mean N. Korea...

Hi K4, I was trying to point out that in my last thread China had been firing lasers at US spy satellites, and that the US was keeping this quiet as they are trying to get China to help with its problems with Iran and N' Korea, and as we all know China has a lot of ties with N' Korea. It just seemed to me that America and her Allies are having their resolve tested, maybe because of the failures in Iraq and Afganistan, maybe China, N' Korea and Iran feel we may not be as much of a threat to them as we used to be.


Thanks for all your replies.
I think the problem with N' Korea testing a Nuke is that there track record for failure is well Known, and if this is a test of a nuclear device and delivery system, if a missile goes awol this could cause major problems for the Japanese and S' koreans. How would you feel if an unexploded nuclear device landed in your back yard or even worse if they had to self-destruct it and leave you to clean up the contaminated debris!!
Do N' Korea really care about treaties, would they come back to the table if the US were to do more to ease tensions and would they be bothered about fallout from their tests.





[edit on 4-10-2006 by Kurokage]

Hi K4, I was trying to point out that in my last thread China had been firing lasers at US spy satellites, and that the US was keeping this quiet as they are trying to get China to help with its problems with Iran and N' Korea, and as we all know China has a lot of ties with N' Korea. It just seemed to me that America and her Allies are having their resolve tested, maybe because of the failures in Iraq and Afganistan, maybe China, N' Korea and Iran feel we may not be as much of a threat to them as we used to be.

I think the US is keeping quiet about China "firing lasers at US spy satellites" is because... well... they are spy satellites and China has every right to blind them from spying over its territory.

Nextly, I don't think ANYONE in this world would feel safer if NK got hold of Nuclear weapons. Sure, Kim Jong Il maybe an idiot, but I don't think hes dumb enough to go TOO far; he knows the consequences and from watching Iraq being invaded, I doubt he'll try to tug the rope too hard.

I think he's just using Nuclear weapons as a bargaining tool to get more of what he wants.

Originally posted by Kurokage
Thanks for all your replies.
I think the problem with N' Korea testing a Nuke is that there track record for failure is well Known, and if this is a test of a nuclear device and delivery system, if a missile goes awol this could cause major problems for the Japanese and S' koreans. How would you feel if an unexploded nuclear device landed in your back yard or even worse if they had to self-destruct it and leave you to clean up the contaminated debris!!
Do N' Korea really care about treaties, would they come back to the table if the US were to do more to ease tensions and would they be bothered about fallout from their tests.
[edit on 4-10-2006 by Kurokage]

I'll just quote myself in another related thread:

Originally posted by Daedalus3


I don't think there have been many (if any?) nuclear tests in which the whole system: missile + warhead detonation, has been tested at one go.. too many things could go wrong in such cases especially with long range missiles.
N-tests are mostly separately carried out and nowadays underground. The last surface detonation was by China way back in the late seventies?

Infact have there been any launch-to-detonation full-cycle tests publicised?
I haven't heard of any..

it wasn't the US who did the invading.

When the US forces crossed the 38th parallel, they were in North Korea, And hence invaded them. The South Koreans were spoiling for a war during 1948-9 and made numerous incursions into North Korean led by Rhee. The North Koreans were the first to act, but did not do so for no reason

I don't know how much they rewrite history in China

Dont be tempted to take cheap shots, because the chinese prespective does not fit into the ideal american vision of the world does not make it wrong nor "re-written"

While Chinawhite has not said anything incorrect, he does, as he has pointed out, contain a biased view which his government instilled into him.
Though, as an American, I admit we do some share of that ourselves.

--Though I'd be quick to point out to Mr. White, that as a capitalist, and not state-run society, we have a much, much lower level of 'propaganda' in our media, so as to not attack our society for such.

Now, as for Korea yanking on the Americans chains? Yes. Because despite what rumours like to be told, we cannot, and will not go off on our own and attack the fellows. The issue here, much like Iran, is that an unpredictable, violent government has, in disregard to international advice, and demands, through the use of lies and intentional secrecy, worked to produce nuclear weapons.

FYI: Most nations in the U.N. will use the U.N. to their own needs. In the case of the U.S.A, we usually don't do much with them besides with-hold payments where we see poor policy or corruption going on.

North Korea needs to be stopped,and sanctions are not the way.

First off North Korea is in economic termoil.It needs to produce and sell weapons to other countrys just to feed it's people and maintain a military and politial stucture.It has basicly nothing else to offer the world..Its mybelif that sanctions would only push them into starting a conflict and perhaps use a nuclear weapon.
Now,
Japan is highly concernd over this. If the north tests a nucear device, Japan will most likely concider it a threat to their "supreme interests", and under Artical X of the NPT they can drop out and use "peaceful plutonium" (which they can have under their own Basic Atomic Energy Law of 1956 )
and use it to build nuclear weapons.

Article X

The Atomic Energy Basic Law


Now this its where it gets a little sticky.

Nuclear proliferation could spread throughout the area like white on rice get it?

This is most likely where china steps in.. a new arms race like the world has never known could arise..( You don't want to f w/ China)

This will most likely be the senario if NK tests a nuke.

Now if north Korea decides to use this device,well thats another story.

They have to be stopped

Originally posted by Iblis
While Chinawhite has not said anything incorrect, he does, as he has pointed out, contain a biased view which his government instilled into him.
Though, as an American, I admit we do some share of that ourselves.

--Though I'd be quick to point out to Mr. White, that as a capitalist, and not state-run society, we have a much, much lower level of 'propaganda' in our media, so as to not attack our society for such.

Um... Iblis. The last I checked, it is the year 2006 and China is, by all means, a capitalist nation... so even using that comparison is ridiculously ignorant.

I don't recall ever saying they were not-Capitalist.
But in relative terms, they are far from.

What I did mention, was the high amount of state-control over media.
Do you recall Google having to restrict certain parameters of its search engine, so such things as Tiananmen Square.



Also, to automatically assume something I may've alluded to, but not said, is ignorant. And rude.

--Though I'd be quick to point out to Mr. White, that as a capitalist, and not state-run society...

You're implying that the Chinese aren't capitalists... please reread your comment.

Even so, I believe Chinawhite is from... Australia?

Most of you Westerners bashing on China fail to realize the ridiculous amount of public ignorance about the PRC among yourselves. It's instilled in the media and the minds of the Western public. Even here, I've heard ridiculous comments that people actually believe are TRUE. Quote: "China has a billion starving people." "China's army is consisted of millions of peasants with AKs." You won't even BELIEVE the things I see HERE AT ATS.

At least in China, even with gov't controlled media, no one is hardly as ignorant of America as people in America are of China.





[edit on 5-10-2006 by k4rupt]

I find this analysis very interesting.

War is Coming to US Soil
By Kim Myong Chol ("Unofficial" spokesman of Kim Jong-il and North Korea.)
The Foreign Ministry of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea announced on October 3 that the DPRK planned to conduct a nuclear test. The Foreign Ministry stated that the planned nuclear test was in response to the grave situation created by the US, where "the supreme national security interests of the DPRK are at stake with the Korean nation standing at the crossroads of life and death".

The nuclear test, once conducted, will have far-reaching implications for the Koreas and the rest of the world. It carries five messages.

I think the whole piece is worth the read.

While it is easy to blame the current policy, I think US policy for North Korea has a long history of failure. I don't know if I see the wisdom of China and Russia letting this happen though, the US is pouring billions into defense against the threat posed by North Korea, and if it ever came to war, the outcome could be the US being successful in defense while North Korea would be left a nuclear waste, and given the weather patterns of the region, the fallout could spill into China.

One thing about this though, I am starting to see this as a unique moment in time in Asia. I think there is an opportunity for China to become what many in the world want it to be, a true leader on the world stage and a stabilizing factor in that extremely wealthy, populated region of the world.

While I could see where some would say the US won't do anything provocative, I would remind people that this administration specifically would be the most likely to take action, including nuclear action, particularly since it would be unexpected. When the US media discusses Pentagon policy for “deep strike” and “pre-emptive strike” that could include nuclear weapons, even though the media runs wild about threats to Iran, strategic experts point out that these tactics are actually being developed for North Korea.

One thing about the analysis, most of the world, including many of the neighbors of North Korea, do not buy into the North Korean Foreign Ministry pledge to "faithfully implement its international commitment in the field of nuclear non-proliferation as a responsible nuclear-weapons state and to prohibit nuclear transfer." North Korea has a really, really horrible record regarding military proliferation, particularly with ballistic missiles, but also is the largest worldwide provider of illegal firearms proliferation. That reason alone should raise concern worldwide, not just the west.

Originally posted by Kurokage
Well things seem to be hotting up, with this and my last thread about China.
Is it me or is America and its Allies being pushed in to a corner here, its almost like they are testing the waters, trying to see how far they can go before they get a response.

news.aol.co.uk...

What are your opinions on this new news?? After there recent missile tests, do you think they have a decent delivery system that will work??



[edit on 3-10-2006 by Kurokage]

let them keep at it eventually the'll blow themeselves up

Originally posted by k4rupt

--Though I'd be quick to point out to Mr. White, that as a capitalist, and not state-run society...

You're implying that the Chinese aren't capitalists... please reread your comment.

Even so, I believe Chinawhite is from... Australia?

Most of you Westerners bashing on China fail to realize the ridiculous amount of public ignorance about the PRC among yourselves. It's instilled in the media and the minds of the Western public. Even here, I've heard ridiculous comments that people actually believe are TRUE. Quote: "China has a billion starving people." "China's army is consisted of millions of peasants with AKs." You won't even BELIEVE the things I see HERE AT ATS.

At least in China, even with gov't controlled media, no one is hardly as ignorant of America as people in America are of China.


And they aren't. Not in a relative sense, as I mentioned.
Further -- Anyone who simply goes with the media is a twit. It is crude to say we are all, as Americans, under that umbrella of ignorance.
--Also, things you've heard weigh in no way to this conversation. I've heard people say Americans are greedy socialites, that we have beam-weapon technology in-use, and that we had things to do with the Tunguska Event.

If you use ignorant people as basis for an argument, then you're argument becomes ignorant.
We'll hear a great deal of things in life, some of it undeniably, pathically incorrect. People are simply that way at times. However, to use such examples in what is meant to be an informed argument does the argument no justice.

Further, ATS is a conspiracy site. Of course you'll hear insanely stupid things, among some people.





[edit on 5-10-2006 by k4rupt]