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Hydrogen Bombs Brought Down The WTC's Hypothesis

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posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 10:39 AM
reply to post by Insolubrious
That's a technology that actually does work - coating a plane with iron ferrite for radar invisibility but the trouble is it's too heavy to get off the ground.

I remember seeing that claim for red mercury somewhere - maybe as additional enticement to potential 'suckers'

I'm surprised that hafnium-178 metastable isomer hasn't been raised in this thread as a possibility.

posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Insolubrious
On the contrary to this we also have Ballotechics. Here is some so called 'wild speculation' on this type of device

That designation is well earned.

I say pseudo-explosive because although they generate incredible amounts of heat very quickly, they do not actually release rapidly expanding gasses, which is the technical definition of an explosion.

If you generate "incredible amounts of heat", that, according to thermodynamics, is bound to case "incredible pressure" -- the temps in fact will blow the object apart by vaporizing it. Plain and simple. There won't be gases produced in the same way as in lets say black powder explosion, where they are a direct product of a chemical reaction, but an explosion you'll have if the energy release is indeed high. The fact that there is no vaporization and expansion of the material leaves me more than skeptical of the claims like

They may pack enough punch to directly initiate a fusion reaction without an intermediate fission reaction, resulting in "pure" fusion.

posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 03:57 PM
This whole H-Bomb theory sounds whack.

And the collapse of the buildings- whilst explosive- seems to obey thermodynamic laws without the need to invoke a deus machina event like H-Bombs or holograms etc.

posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 10:01 PM
I hope your right, and so do the BBC news.

What is red mercury?

posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 11:13 PM
The sad thing about all this is, that there will not be a criminal investigation of 9-11. There hasn't been an investigation, and there won't ever be an investigation. Not a Commission, not predetermined speculations in questionable reports from Governmental Institutes of Standards, but a real Criminal Investigation.
Why is it every time something major happens, rather than an investigation we get hand picked, conflict of interest ridden Commissions rather than a good ole fashioned crime scene digging investigation.
We should demand one.
Magic Bullets... Molten Steel... why do we sit there and let them do it?

posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 02:01 PM

Originally posted by SteveR
Do we know in all certainty that "10,000 Joule/cm3" is not enough to initiate deuterium-tritium fusion?

Moreover, do we know that the Red Mercury process conforms to that theoretical limit?

Questions questions ...


Despite your belief in red mercury, you are a ‘good’ man. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

You may have a point about your suggestion that we cannot be certain that even non-radioactive substances — with a maximum (chemical) energy density of 10,000 J/cm3 — might be suitable as ‘fuel’ to generate fusion-enabling temperatures of 10 million Kelvin.

But it does see more likely that the conditions for pure fusion cannot be achieved through chemical energy reactions, else why would we have been using fission (atom) bombs all these years to trigger hydrogen bombs?

It seems more likely that of the three processes of converting mass into energy — fusion, fission and annihilation —‘bomb designers’ would find ways to harness the effects of the third, and most powerful mechanism, annihilation (complete transformation of mass into energy) to activate the first (fusion).

The ATS moderators mock me at times for this, but for good measure I’ll repeat this. Nothing compares to the amounts of energy released from (loss of) physical mass. E=mc2 (Energy equals mass times light speed squared). In plain English, this means for example one gram of ANYTHING (and this includes the peanut half you just dropped from the shell) is equivalent to 90,000,000,000,000 Joules or 700,000 gallons of gasoline. This is precisely what happens when antimatter meets matter. The matter ‘disappears’ and gets completely transformed into energy.

For all the ATS newcomers, it is being hypothesized here that tiny weensy amounts of antimatter were used to set off pure fusion hydrogen isotope bombs to pulverize WTC-1, 2, 6 and 7.

The Wizard In The Woods

posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 09:11 PM

Dear Everybody,

This photograph -- recently posted by fastfingersfunk -- is so telling, I just couldn't resist placing it in the "Hydrogen Bombs Brought Down The WTC's" thread.

There can't be any clearer evidence that the WTC's were nuked than what is shown here. It boggles the mind to think about what was done on 9-11 and how the general public steadfastly refuses to understand.

9-11 ushered in the era of quickly falling petroleum production. We (the U.S.) carried out 9-11 -- and blew up lower Manhattan -- to set up large-scale shop militarily in the Middle East for Israel and oil. I laugh every time I hear mainstream media commentators insist there is plenty of oil. It will be interesting to see how far prices of crude have to rise before the public catches on -- if they ever do.

Da Wizard In Da Woods

posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 05:38 AM

For all the ATS newcomers, it is being hypothesized here that tiny weensy amounts of antimatter were used to set off pure fusion hydrogen isotope bombs to pulverize WTC-1, 2, 6 and 7.

I agree something like that was possibly used in 1 and 2.

Building 7 fell at near free fall speed, symmetrically and neatly into a small pile.
No such explosive was used by building 7.

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 02:47 AM
Forgive my bluntness, but, with all due respect, you guys are being a bit childish. Yes, it's theoretically possible that they used #ing HYDROGEN BOMBS to blow up the WTC's, but why the hell would they if using conventional explosives would do just fine while costing only a fraction of the price?

Secondly, let's not forget, its a #ing HYDROGEN BOMB. As in forcibly isolating and combining the nuclei of atoms, as in the energy source that heats our sun to over 2 million Kelvin (atmosphere) and allows it to emit radiation over nearly the entire known electromagnetic spectrum... see where I'm going with this? No? Consider this: If the bomb is powered by fusing hydrogen atoms, and it requires a certain minimum amount of energy for that to even happen, then it follows that any hydrogen fusion bomb would have a certain minimum yield, right? So call me crazy, but I'm thinking this minimum yield is probably a few MEGATONS more than is necessary to destroy 3 buildings. I'm thinking that, had even one actual hydrogen bomb gone off, a significant portion, if not all of Manhattan would've been completely levelled. And then some. Even the Hiroshima bomb would've done that. And presumably, a similar device is merely the TRIGGER for even the smallest H-bomb. You see what I mean?

I'm not trying to knock anyone down, or judge, or snub my nose, or any of that. It's more than apparent that everyone here is of at Least above average intelligence. I'm just saying, let's try and stick to the realm of the possible, ok? Not even plausible, just merely possible. Because, to me, as advanced as we are, it is well beyond the bounds of our current technology (or practicality, for that matter) to try and destroy any target smaller than a few kilometers with nuclear weapons.

In other words,

Overkill. Waaaaaay overkill, in every imaginable aspect.

Nevertheless, let's keep trying to tell anyone who'll listen about the injustices we all suffer each day, and continue working toward better times in the future.

Peace, Safety, and Respect to you all,

A Fellow Thinker

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 03:09 AM
reply to post by Wizard_In_The_Woods

IMO buildings when they 'collapse' dont explode upwards..

Good pic

posted on Aug, 5 2008 @ 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Forgive my bluntness, but, with all due respect, you guys are being a bit childish. Yes, it's theoretically possible that they used #ing HYDROGEN BOMBS to blow up the WTC's, but why the hell would they if using conventional explosives would do just fine while costing only a fraction of the price?

Dear Anonymous ATS,

You and much of the rest of the country appear to be having difficulty understanding energy concepts. Hence the ‘gas crisis’.

It takes energy to produce the observed effects on 9-11 — lots of it. To pulverize the concrete alone it took 14 million KWH — the equivalent of 23,000 tons of TNT. PER TOWER. Using conventional chemical exlposives would have required 575 big-ass 40 ton semi truck loads of ‘stuff’ -- again, PER TOWER, and would have produced one great big fireball. And we didn’t see that.

Hence, there is only one plausible explanation for the energy source used to demolish WTC1, 2, 6 and 7 – nuclear bombs. In this case we’re talking about pure fusion hydrogen bombs, triggered with a teeny weenzie speck of antimatter. If you think I’m making this up, then you’re behind with your knowledge of nuclear technology. For the past forty years it’s been the holy grail of energy research to discover a way to pelletize nuclear bombs (hydrogen bombs) as a clean source of abundant energy. The principle our scientists are trying to apply is similar to a piston in a car engine – which is also powered by multiple (uncontrolled) explosions.

But believe what ever you want. And, by the way, yes, space beams are utter nonsense. There is no theoretically feasible practical way to convert and transmit the huge amount of 14 million KWH from another energy source (it would have to be a nuclear bomb with 42 million KWH yield into some type of ‘laser’-microwave-beam contraption, from outer space to the surface of the earth.

The Wizard In The Woods

[edit on 8/5/2008 by Wizard_In_The_Woods]

posted on Aug, 10 2008 @ 09:19 PM
Dear Anonymous ATS,
Allow me to clarify my ‘great big fireball’ remark. There seems to be some confusion about the visiblility of nuclear explosions.

Kiloton for kiloton, yield for yield, nuclear detonations -- id est, pure fusion hydrogen bombs in particular – are MUCH more quiet and discreet than conventional chemical explosions. Why? Because in modern day hydrogen nukes 80-85% of their energy gets released as invisible, silent high-energy neutrons. And only 15% is blast (=the fireball and boom everybody expects to see and hear). In constrast with this, chemical charges are ALL AND NOTHING BUT BLAST. There are no hidden processes taking place there. Which is why 9-11 could have never been pulled off using only ‘normal’ weaponry.

Hope this helps.
The Wizard In The Woods

posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 09:04 AM
If you go back to the late 70's early 80's that was the terror of the day. taking down WTC with Nukes, funny how 30yrs later they did it...
but if you include Hydrogen Bombs that would fulfill the propoganda of the day... as that was how they were suppose to come down.

1. Space Beam - Anti-Armor Weapon on the International Space Station
2. Thermate
3. pre planted explosives
4. jets full of fuel that burned off immediately

humm, interesting are you sure no one farted..?

posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 09:10 AM
reply to post by Wizard_In_The_Woods

you seriously need to get your head out of your butt.. its morons like you that make this site, a bigger joke than it allready is.. if you had a clue, or an intellect above a 3rd grader I would make an argument with you.. but as I can tell in your thread, your one of those mind numb idiots that will believe anything you read on the internet, so its a waste of time.

posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 03:36 PM
reply to post by philjwolf

Well now…the salt of the earth has just spoken!

If I were to “believe anything on the internet”, then why in the name of Sam Hill would I exactly favor the hydrogen bomb theory as the primary method of destruction used at the WTC’s on 9-11? Or there something about this idea which is selectively attractive to “mind numb idiots” (like myself)

The Wizard In The Woods

posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 05:51 PM

Evidence of advanced fusion devices at the WTC:
1. Pulverization of 99% of concrete into ultra fine dust as recorded by official studies. Concrete dust was created instantly throughout the towers when the fusion device million degree heat rapidly expanded water vapour 1000-fold in the concrete floors. 2. Superheated steels ablating (vaporizing continuously as they fall) as seen in video clips of the towers collapsing. This requires uniform temperatures roughly twice that of thermite. Conventional demolition or explosive charges (thermate, rdx, hdx etc.) cannot transfer heath so rapidly that the steel goes above it's boiling temperature. 3. 22 ton outer wall steel sections ejected 200 meters into the winter garden. Cutting charges cannot eject heavy steels and throwing charges cannot provide the energy required without heavy, solid surface mounts. 4. 330 ton section of outer wall columns ripping off side of tower. Cutting charges cannot eject heavy steels linked together and throwing charges cannot provide the energy required without very heavy, solid surfaces to mount those charges 5. Molten ponds of steel at the bottom of elevator shafts (WTC1, WTC2, WTC7). Massive heath loads have been present at the lower parts of these high-rise buildings. As one of the witnesses after seeing the flow of metals declared: "no one will be found alive". 6. The spire behaviour (stands for 20-30 seconds, evaporates and goes down, steel dust remains in the air where the spire was). The spire did not stand because it lost its durability when the joints vaporized. 7. Sharp spikes in seismograph readings (Richter 2.1 and 2.3) occurred at the beginning of collapse for both towers. Short duration and high power indicate an explosive event. 8. A press weighting 50 tons disappeared from a basement floor of Twin Towers and was never recovered from debris. Not possible with collapses or controlled demolitions. The press was vaporized or melted totally.9. Bone dust cloud around the WTC. This was found not until spring 2006 from the Deutsche Bank building. (In excess of 700 human remains found on the roof and from air vents). See 10. Fires took 100 days to extinguish despite continuous spraying of water. Thermate would burn out totally and then cool down much faster, just in a few days. This long cooling time means the total heath load being absorbed into the steels of the WTC was massive, far in excess anything found in collapses or typical controlled demolitions. 11. Brown shades of color in the air due nuclear radiation forming NO2, NO3 and nitric acid. TV and documentary footage changed the color balance to blue to disguise this fact indicating complicity in the coverup. 12. Elevated Tritium values measured in the WTC area but not elsewhere in New York. Official studies stated that 8 EXIT signs from two commercial Boeing jets were responsible. The tritium in those EXIT signs is insufficient to explain the measurements (very little tritium is available for measuring after evaporation into air as hydrogen and as tritiated water vapour. This can provide conclusive proof of fusion devices and therefore US/Israeli military involvement. 13. Pyroclastic flow observed in the concrete-based clouds. Only found with volcanic eruptions and nuclear detonations. The explosion squibs cool down just a few milliseconds after the explosion or after having reached some 10 meters in the air. Pyroclastic flow will not mix with other clouds meaning very serious heath in those clouds not possible with the conventional demolition or explosive charges. The pyroclastic clouds were cooling down at the WTC but this process took some 30 seconds. See 14. Huge expanding dust clouds 5 times the volume of the building indicating extreme levels of heat generated far in excess of traditional demolition explosives.

posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 05:53 PM

15. Rubble height was some 10% of the original instead of 33% expected in a traditional demolition. Fusion device removal of underground central steel framework allowed upper framework to fall into this empty space and reduce the rubble height. 16. No survivors found, except some firefighters in one corner pocket in the rubble who looked up to see blue sky above them instead of being crushed by collapsing debris. Upward fusion flashlight-like beam of destruction missed this pocket but removed debris above those lucky firemen. 17. 14 rescue dogs and some rescue workers died far too soon afterward to be attributed to asbestos or dust toxins (respiratory problems due to alpha and tritium particles created by fusion are far more toxic) 18. Record concentrations of near-atomic size metal particles found in dust studies due to ablated steel. Only possible with vaporized (boiling) steels. 19. Decontamination procedure used at Ground Zero (hi-pressure water spraying) for all steel removed from site. Water spraying contains fusion radioactivity. 20. No bodies, furniture or computers found in the rubble, but intact sheets of paper covered the streets with fine dust. Items with significant mass absorbed fusion energy (neutrons, x-rays) and were vaporized while paper did not. Paper and powder theory. 21. 200 000 gallon sprinkler water tanks on the roofs of WTC1 and WTC2, but no water in the ruins. Heat of fusion devices vaporized large reservoirs of water. 22. Reports of cars exploding around the WTC and many burned out wrecks could be seen that had not been hit by debris. Fusion energy (heath radiation and the neutrons) caused cars to ignite and burn far from WTC site. 23. Wide area electrical outage, repairs took over 3 months. Fusion devices cause EM pulse with Compton scattering. See German engineers help the USA plate 5. 24. EM pulse was recorded by broadcast cameras with high quality electronic circuitry. This occurred at the same time as the seismic peaks recorded by Lamont Doherty during the beginning of the collapse. This is due to the Compton Effect and resulted in a large area power outage at the WTC.

posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 06:05 PM

Military exercises by the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) with 22 imaginarily hijacked planes on 9/11/2001, before and simultaneously with the 'real' hijackings. Some of the defense interceptors flew to Alaska, as far as possible from the cities that were being attacked.
The 'hijackings' of four civil aircraft and the substitution of all of the planes that really were used on the real flights to remote-controlled ones. It is certain that an operation this complex and heavy in the preparations of the demolitions is not left to be handled by arabs with carpeting knives. Plissken-Valentine or Pearl are well-assumed estimations on how the aircraft operation was performed. Since the part of airplanes hijacked and flown into buildings was critical to the real aims of the operation there must have been a couple of reserve planes for the USAF Boeing 767's and the Global Hawk. Alternatively, the Boeing 757 shot down in Pennsylvania might have been a remote- controlled reserve plane like those.
The booking of seats on certain flights was artificially kept low; those coast-to-coast flights were booked by 20% instead of the usual 75% in order to minimize deaths, which could cause problems. If the flights were real, the passengers on them had to die (or at least disappear). Two of the flights were probably nothing but fictious, real only on radar screens, which minimized the amount of passengers to be murdered.
There was use of put options with airline stocks and with the re-assurance companies related (American Airlines, United Airlines, Allianz, Munchener Re, Schweizer Re, AXA…). Furthermore, the assurance values of the WTC were doubled in July 2001.
The camouflaging of six remote-controlled aircraft in order to make them look like Boeing 767's or 757's. The four planes probably were 2x USAF 767 tankers, a Global Hawk in Pentagon and a 'real' 757 in Pennsylvania.
False tracks leading to 'terrorists' using young moslem looking persons, who take aviation classes in Southern USA and party at night clubs, were created.
The demolition preparations of the wing of the Pentagon that was under reparation. This was supposed to collapse a horseshoe-shaped area of the building, which would seem to be caused by the crash of a Boeing 757 after the Global Hawk attack. This partly failed. There is photographic evidence of a small plane before the actual collapse of the wing of the Pentagon. The structures did not collapse until firefighters sprayed lots of water on the ceiling of the building.
The demolition preparations of the WTC towers and WTC 7 so that it was possible to make them collapse completely. Also the positioning of an electronic homing device in the towers and in Pentagon in order to ensure the accurate hits of the remote-controlled aircraft. Extra napalm for dramatizing the effects of hits of airliners. The WTC buildings could have been exploded down to earth in same way even completely without the airplanes.
Ordering, preparing and transportation of the charges for the demolition of the WTC. Solely for the steel pillars of the outer circle 40 x 240 charges were needed, let's say 10 000 cutting charges each weighing 50 lbs for each tower. For WTC 7 at least 4000 charges were needed. Also at least one small thermonuclear bomb for each of these three buildings.
The locating of critical targets for the conspiracy in the WTC towers. For example, there was a lot of evidence of world-wide economic crimes. The FBI was in WTC 1 in the floors from 22 to 24. (It has been said that one case was the case against Mobil Oil and James Giffen on illegal oil swaps between Iran and Kazakhstan and the evidence in the investigation of gold price fixing stemming from charges brought against Alan Greenspan, Morgan & Company, Goldman Sachs.)

posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 06:06 PM

is possible that some targets were attacked because of the unique opportunity exploitable where the human bodies and all evidence of the crimes automatically disappeared when a hydrogen bomb exploded. Explosions heard from the towers before the commencing of the 'collapse' may have been related to these attacks. There is a reason for the huge explosion in the customs building, as well.
1) One needs to find out the right size and the dimensions of suitable cutting charges and then order 24 000 pieces. One must as well order fitting detonators (detonators were needed a lot more). Fitting detonators usually already exist in stores of military forces (or the CIA). Time of delivery is several months in any case. All detonators must be equipped with some kind of safety mechanism, which will be removed by a radio signal at the final moment.
2) After this, the cutting charges are installed in the selected rooms that are not in use. Some of these rooms may as well serve as temporary storages for charges needed elsewhere. After this the apartment is renovated and circulated to the clients in the WTC. One man continuously assembles maybe 5 cutting charges per hour. With 10 assemblers 350 charges are installed a day. As surplus transportations of supplies, renovators and guards. Maybe about 20 people more were needed (5 of them know what is going on, 15 do not). For the nstallation of the charges this operation takes at least four months with 30 men. Considering step 1), six months are probably needed. The amount of personnel could not have been increased, but probably decreased, if more time was available.
3) To some of the chosen apartments, no one had access. That is why on the weekend on 9/8/2001 and 9/9/2001 it is announced, that floors up from the 40th floor are being equipped with cables and no normal employee has access to the working area there. The installations of explosives are completed and at the same time at least in the charged areas listening devices are set to find out a possible premature discovery of the plan. If someone finds charges the guards are soon on the scene and will deal the situation in one way or another.
4) One completes the area of secret service in WTC 7 so that its demolition operation can be carried out. A military flight beacon is placed there (planes are homing to it from far away). Remote controls for air planes and radio transmitters to be capable of blowing up at least one third of the cutting charges are placed. At this location, the ability to eavesdrop any area of the WTC, for example by a laserbeam, aimed to a selected window, probably already existed.
5) A radio beacon helping the final approach is placed in targeted apartments in the WTC towers. Close to these, remote controlled napalm explosives are placed as well, in order to draw the interest from the planes to fires. The higher in the towers the planes are targeted, the less there will be deaths. (Real terrorists would do exactly the opposite.) Evacuation from lower floors should be possible through the staircases. The target is to create a new reason for odd wars and fascistic laws, not to kill as many Americans as possible. 'A new Pearl Harbor', meaning the death of about 3000 citizens is probably the desired loss of lives.
6) The attack plans are made so that they can be executed during the chaos, for example in the offices of the investigations of the economic crimes by the FBI. (The attackers had already their own men infiltrated in these facilities.) Also in WTC 6 (customs) either a small nuke or a very strong bomb is blown out (which one, depends on whether there was melted steel ponds in the cellar of WTC 6.) An explosion, of course, hides the loss of any supplies (A nuclear explosion covers up murders, as well.)

posted on Aug, 16 2008 @ 06:08 PM

7) In the morning of 9/11 the operations are performed after a timetable in which seconds are important. From the command post facilities the actions in towers are monitored. To hide the true nature of the operation, there was probably an agent on call in both towers, who could silence the people finding out too much. (The agent probably did not know what was going to happen.)
It is not likely that all the people, who knew about the demolition charges in the WTC, or those who installed the remote controls of the aircraft or did some camouflage paintings for drones are still are alive and capable of telling about their acts, which changed the world.
8) The mini-nukes are transported to the cellar floors in elevators. After that the elevators are locked down, guarded and monitored - no service repairman will be allowed near these elevators. The thermonuclear device used in WTC 7 was different, its yield was set lower and it was directed in a way better suitable for that building.
9) The explosions have been timed so that 99.9% of people around will look at the top of towers, and perhaps two seconds later the small thermonuclear bomb is exploded in the cellar of the south tower, and again two seconds later another very powerful charge in the WTC 6 customs building while nobody is looking that way. There are also the continuous explosions of the thousands of cutting charges tearing the south tower down at the speed of gravity-driven free fall.
10) The demolition of either of the WTC towers took at least half a year to prepare, including installation of 10 000 cutting charges and the delivery of a thermonuclear device at the last moment. The demolition of those ultra strong steel pillars in the central core using cutting charges only is not possible without waking up unwanted attention. These charges must be in touch of the steel pillars, and there is not enough enclosed space in the central core to hide these biggest possible charges.
11) The demolition operation is finished by destroying WTC 7 using a nuke and completely destroying the op center with its equipment. Concrete evidence like the military flight beacon and the remote control devices for cutting charges and napalm as well as the recordings of eavesdropping devices regarding events within the towers vapourize and vanish without a trace.
Most of the media is controlled by people related to the attack and tell misleading stories only, as if crushing of the airliners or a weak fire could have caused the 'collapse' of the towers. The true attackers are the ones with strong and vigorous broadcasting around their false version of the events which is very different to what really happened.
Until these days, no single newspaper, magazine nor a national tv channel in the western nations have taken a critical view on the so-called truth, according to which the planes and fires caused the WTC towers to collapse. The destruction of WTC 7, which has no explanation at all, is bypassed without any comments. A huge bomb, explosed in WTC 6 is also bypassed as a non-existing event.
Some things, like the sharply-drawn pictures of the closest seismographs may have been falsified. A Specialist in demolitions, V. Romero, may have been forced to change his original statement. The hoax is completed by Osama Bin Laden, who as a CIA agent 'confesses' to have ordered the airliner strikes. The Bin Laden hoax and the suicidal arabs construct a net of lies that catches the most of the mankind.
Laymen have no experience in observing differences in collapses, controlled demolitions and underground nuclear demolitions. Even the destruction of heavy steel constructions or a typical fire damage are far away from their field of experience. These towers were build to take the impacts of hitting Boeing 707's, comparable to Boeing 767's, taking into account the fires caused by the aviation fuel. And the buildings did survive well all that.

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