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Islam the New Wine? The New Patch?

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posted on Oct, 2 2006 @ 11:56 AM
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I am currently reading the Quran from the Prophet Muhammad....

I understand Islam to be the Last Messenger, or Muhammad as the Last Prophet...
They believe that Jesus was a messenger and was not crucified.. that is he did not die...
The Quran speaks a lot (thus far in my reading) about the Torah, Abraham and Moses.
Now I've studied the words of Christ consumingly, and I know that Christ never spoke about killing. Never spoke of violence as a solution to anything. His message was Love, and by Love I mean Acceptance of all things.
He taught us that Love is Light, that Love is the acceptance of all things, no divisions.
and that Hate, Darkness or Evil is the ignorance of Love... they do not accept Love, Yet Love accepts them. He also taught us that no darkness can exist in light/love ... thus he gave us the equation to destroy darkness.
Yet I find the Prophet Muhammad sways back and forth between being war-minded and being 'god-minded' ... But I notice that theres much misconception behind Christ in Islam... to me if every Muslim were VERY learned in ALL of the Books, not just the Quran.. they would actually be true Muslims... because it seems to me they are just taking Prophet Muhammads word, and not reading what Muhammad himself has read.
Also to me it would seem that much of what was written about Christ was 'hidden' or unknown to most people... (I'm speaking about the Lost Gospels and Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hammadi Library, etc)

But I was reading this... and it seems to fit the world scenario at large quite well..

Luke 5:29-39

29) And Levi made him a great feast in his house; and there was a large company of tax collectors and others sitting at table with them. 30) And the Pharisees and their scribes murmured against his disciples, saying, "Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?" 31) And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; 32) I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." 33) And they said to him, "The disciples of John fast often and offer prayers, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink." 34) And Jesus said to them, "Can you make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? 35) The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days." 36) He told them a parable also: "No one tears a piece from a new garment and puts it upon an old garment; if he does, he will tear the new, and the piece from the new will not match the old. 37) And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; if he does, the new wine will burst the skins and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed. 38) But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins. 39) And no one after drinking old wine desires new; for he says, `The old is good.'"


I am in no way making fun of or taking away from the Prophet Muhammad...
What I am saying is that I think we are misunderstanding Prophet Muhammad's reasoning behind being so anti-jew/christian ... because there is a certain bias against them. Granted most jews/christians today worship a perverted religeon... there are still some true believers or 'followers' of Christ since the realease of certain hidden scriptures.... The true Message of Christ has really JUST been fully known due to the Nag Hammadi Library and other scriptures, some may call it gnosticism, some call it New-Age Christianity.. theres many names for it. But it is recognizable.
As I mentioned before the message of Christ has been hidden and manipulated, and Muhammad SAW this manipulation, that is who he was angry with, those who perverted and manipulated the Word.
I'm going into more detail with my words here because this is such a controversial topic.
(CONTINUED NEXT POST)




posted on Oct, 2 2006 @ 12:02 PM
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(CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST)

Jesus said there is no way to Allah except through Christ.
in the Quran it mentions that ideology

From the Quran (The Cow, Section)

They say: "None shall enter paradise except the one who is a Jew or a Christian."
These are their vain desires. Say O Muhammad: "Let us have your proof if you are
right in your claim."[111] Yea! Whoever submits himself entirely to Allah and is good
to others will be rewarded by his Lord; and will have nothing to fear or to regret.[112]
2:[111-112]


That statement itself seems to not understand the nature of 'the Christ' which is Love, the acceptance of all things..

and this I just do not understand... except for those who have perverted the words of The Christ..

(Also From the Quran)

Many among the people of the Book (Jews and Christians) wish they could somehow
turn you back to unbelief, due to their selfish envy, after the truth has become quite
clear to them. Forgive them and bear with them until Allah brings about His decision;
rest assured that Allah has power over everything.[109] 2:[109]


Although I do rest assured.... Much War and death will happen because of the misunderstandings of just ONE ideology.. the ideology of God, and apparently what we think God wants. When I find it was quite clear in Jesus' words... LOVE thy neighbour..... Love thy Brother... LOVE was his message, yet War seems to be so imminant in so many minds.



posted on Oct, 2 2006 @ 06:36 PM
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I admire your thinking. it is showing that ignorance is not part of your life when you can read and understand more than just your religions holy book. i was christian till my senior year in highschool, as i have opened my eyes and soul now. I dont all-in-all agree with the statement: "Jesus said there is no way to Allah except through Christ.
in the Quran it mentions that ideology"

the only way to Allah is through total submission, yes jesus is a prophet and one of the worlds most important figures, he was just a man (nothing more, nothing less) born to spread the message/love of God.



posted on Oct, 2 2006 @ 07:36 PM
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I still do not see the Koran as the book of know it all or last book to represent God.
To me the message from Jesus was to look out for false prophets that will come in his name, as his word was predicted to sweep the world after he died. He knew other religions and deceivers would use his name to further another agenda and I see the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons the Moonies and Islam all have the same grounds. Spiritually you see the same Angle hiding its face scenario. I am not sure we were warned in the Koran of people claiming to corrupt the message my self in the future. Remember the Koran was written on bits of bone, lose papers and it was not a book until maybe 150years later. A book with no specific orders hence the number system and the order of large paragraphs first.

The Koran makes claims that one book is corrupt when it self has a worse history.
A lot of people doubted Jesus then as they do now, it's not a Revelation but the Crucifixion was one of the best-documented events in history, seen from all sides, those who opposed Jesus to those who did not want him to die. Jesus would be put through the same judgement if he was here today if it did not happen 2006 years ago. I am not sure Mohammad who made these claims has poof that it did not happen as even an atheist can say that. I have read that the Koran was made to suite all that was around him. The pagans were pleased that the Moon God was involved then when teachings changed to suite the Arabs then the Christians to build this religion up. If the events of his life was part of the Koran then he either knew of the future or made it up, as he want along to suite his needs, a bit like a con man that trades.

You see how the Devil behaves towards Jesus and his agenda do you not think all this suites his way of thinking too. Was the Devil trying to make Jesus God so we worshiped him would he do that? Even without Jesus we pray to his heavenly version anyway the Father but through Jesus we find a way in.

www.allabouttruth.org...

It is choice at the end of the day which route of faith you take. Do you listen to one man who has no proof of documented blood line or historical background or do you believe many Prophets and people who have continued the word of Judaism that would never have remained alive if they never cared for it and carried its legacy of the thousands of years or do you listen to one guy who has had thousands of years of emptiness without God making contact with the un chosen people. No claim was made prior a legacy of their need to preserve the Old Testament through out the ages till Mohammad. Many as 300 prophecies mention Jesus in details including his death and there are Old Testaments before the Bible was concluded or Jesus was born.

I see why Islam took off it gave the forgotten people hope and unity, for 2600 years God did not show up on their door and after the Bible was concluded this shows up.
If both are not real then I still think the first version for the gentiles the world people has more legitimate ground.

More can be said but I expect a long debate, which I have gone in circles over.



posted on Oct, 2 2006 @ 08:08 PM
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I find your post enlightening..

I am reading it currently.. and am noticing how he picks and chooses pieces of the Torah to suit his ideology... I have never really seen such a violent religeon.. not even Satanism, (even though its not what people would generally assume)... Like... where did all this hostility come from? and his claims?... like ... Do not fear them.. Fear Me...

He seems to be the exact opposite of Jesus' teachings.. It seems very ... 'self-important' or full of 'self-pity' .. for a people(s) ... Jesus never claimed to be so self-important.. instead he made himself known by acts, and claimed how/who helped him do that was important...

I would rather have a Prophet of Peace, instead of a Prophet of War... it's threatening, displeasing and hard to deal with.
How can one make another understand when one has seen every possible avenue to reason with that one.
Why does war and fighting and violence seem so prominant?
and it is the religeon of peace? I beg to differ, Christ taught Peace, never did I hear him command anyone to KILL unbelievers.. on the other hand he told us to Love them, as we would any other. Which is a just cause.

Might I remind them


Give generously for the cause of Allah and do not cast yourselves into destruction by
your own hands.
Be charitable: Allah loves those who are charitable.[195] 2:[195]



posted on Oct, 2 2006 @ 10:01 PM
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How many different versions of the bible are there? stories are altered to send messages/morals through its words. But you cant call any religion wrong if you really don't know. Mohammed was a prophet of peace, he used violence against enemies and infidels alike but what religin didnt? YES jesus was a prophet of peace but do you know his whole life story? of course not, and there were many "heroes" in the bible whp were violent and murdered people "in the name of god" yeah i should have quotes from the bible backin up mah statement but sorry.



posted on Oct, 2 2006 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by TheUntoldStory
How many different versions of the bible are there? stories are altered to send messages/morals through its words. But you cant call any religion wrong if you really don't know. Mohammed was a prophet of peace, he used violence against enemies and infidels alike but what religin didnt? YES jesus was a prophet of peace but do you know his whole life story? of course not, and there were many "heroes" in the bible whp were violent and murdered people "in the name of god" yeah i should have quotes from the bible backin up mah statement but sorry.


You need no references with me.. I know all about it..

What I am saying is Jesus never said the things Muhammad said, in most cases it is the opposite

I know many Christians have killed in the name of Christ and God.. and many other religeons and cults... but the message from the two prophets/messengers is totally different.



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 12:33 AM
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Pure Energy

1) You can't know islam by solely reading quran as it holds many different figures and interpretations .
The prophet (pbuh) said : " I'm leaving amongst you two most valuable things - one is Allah's book and the other is my Progeny . Till you are bounded with these two you will never go astray . "
That means to understand the message that prophet Muhmmad came with , you must go through quran and the narrations of his progeny .
The quran alone wont suffice , you have to resort to authentic traditions to truly know its meaning .

2) Jesus (pbuh) is a continuation for the biblical prophets , we don't see him objecting on the prophets who resorted to measures worse than the sword , like Moses (pbuh) when he was (supposedly) ordered by God to set the cities he conquered on fire, killing not only the men, but also the children and the animals. Deuteronomy 13:15-16, Numbers 31:7-35. Which is a sample of such ridiculous stories the bible contains that relates terrorist acts to Allah and His prophets (pbut) .
According to your books as they are now, Jesus inspite he preached peace , just like Mohammad , he is also a terrorist , by not condemning what is related to earlier prophets from terrorist acts .

Anyway muslims doesn't believe that Allah or any of the prophet condoned and preached violence .
Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) wars were all defensive . Unless you're reading directed propaganda , twisted facts and unauthentic sources that leads you to think otherwise .


Here are two books by Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Al Shirazi (qas) about war and peace in islam clarifying many of misconceptions about islamic wars :

War, Peace and Nonviolence: An Islamic Perspective
The Prophet Muhammad A Mercy to the World (Chapter 3 : Policies of the Prophet at Times of Conflict) .







[edit on 3-10-2006 by AnarShia]



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 11:02 AM
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The Quran is just another addition to all the holy scriptures we have.
I am muslim and I have read both the Quran and the Bible. If both are the word of God put in text then shouldnt they both get the same respect despite our differences and in presence of God.

It is just a matter of time until we realize that they all are the same and ONE. Each book is an edition or an expansion pack if u will to its previous version. Combined they make one.

Wasnt Jesus's goal to show us the true love and the true way to devine and yet the church got its way. He was sent to free us from the church, greed overwhelmed organization at the time, whose only goal was to take advantage. If the church was evil and heading the wrong way - god saw that and sent for a new prophet with a new word of God in an attempt of altering our ways. These are all assumptions.

But all i know now is that our current ways need to change. We have to come to know the person in us for the only way to God is within us. Love all no matter what.
Like jesus said
What good is there in loving those you already love.



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 11:54 AM
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One of the main problems that I find with Islam is that, if they take anything at all from the Hebrew Bible, they believe in the Old Testament ways. Now, I have not hid my criticism of the Old Testament; I think that it is an atrocious view of God and doesn't apply to the God Jesus spoke of at all. With that being said. I have also noted that if anything is redeemable from the Old Testament, it is the Ten Commandments.
Now, I have read parts of the Koran and I have noticed the emphasis on Mosaic law in it. The problem with emphasizing Mosaic law is that everything changed when Christ came. One of the reasons that the Pharisees and Seducees wanted Christ crucified is because he taught quite contrary to what was believed by Old Testament believers.
If a religion, such as Islam is going to base it's beliefs on such,in my opinion, faulty doctrine as Mosaic law, then they are not truly a religion of love. However, Christianity proper cannot claim to be a religion of love either because of its stringent ideology that anyone who doesn't believe as it does is doomed to "hell".

So, here is the rub. If bothe Christianity and Islam are preparing a global battle, which no one has the guts to say it so I will, this "war on terrorism" is nothing less than a religious war, then neither religion can claim to have obtained the truth proper.
A truthful religion is about peace and love. To my notion, Buddhism and Hinduism come much closer to representing this than either of the world's "great" religions do. Now, let me say that this in no way disqualifies what Jesus taught because Jesus' true teachings do not have an open representative on earth as yet.
The church, with its much appraised greed has neglected to tell the people the truth of Christ's message. Christ spoke of love,forgivness and light. The pastors of many churches prance around on stage, particularly T.V evangelists, and speak of a mythological hell that people who do not believe as they do are destined to enter.
How dare they esteem themselves so highly as to think that they know the plan of God!!

Now, some may wonder what this has to do with Islam. Everything. There is a thin line between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Islam has the same principle of hate for other faiths as the Christians do. Muslims speak as well of how the "infidels" are destined for some mythological "hell".
"Hell" is a fear tactic designed and integrated into the world's three major religions as a method of control. A quite effective method I may add. While Christianity has somewhat toned down its "hell-fire" protestatations, it is still a very integral part of the faith.
I have no sympathy for a religion, such as Islam, that has spread its doctrine by the sword. None.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I have no sympathy for a religion, such as Islam, that has spread its doctrine by the sword. None.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]


So you are saying that the crusaders didnt spread their religion by the sword. Unlike islam christianity and its recruiters have traveled to all continents in search of new recruits in order to force their religion onto them.

How many people in present Africa are told by priests to pay money inorder to cure them from aids.

All religions my friend are SICK.
It is all the same my friend either way you look at it.



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I have no sympathy for a religion, such as Islam, that has spread its doctrine by the sword. None.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]


So you are saying that the crusaders didnt spread their religion by the sword. Unlike islam christianity and its recruiters have traveled to all continents in search of new recruits in order to force their religion onto them.




Certainly...Christianity was one of the religions that I veered my anger towards. Did you read my entire post or just the last line?Don't even get me started on the inquisition.


By the way, I don't think the problem is religion as much as it is the manipulation of religion.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 3-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 3-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 3-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 3-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 08:05 AM
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I have to agree with you Speaker. The problem is never the religion itself, but its manipulation after the passing of the protaginist

A wise man said once that religion can never be succesfull as enlightenment cannot be explained. The enlightened individuals are at such a different level from the comman men that there exists a 'communication gap' between them. No matter what they say, their words will always be misinterpreted and their teachings misrepresented. To truly know what the enlightened one is saying, you have to enlightened yourself.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by puneetsg

A wise man said once that religion can never be succesfull as enlightenment cannot be explained. The enlightened individuals are at such a different level from the comman men that there exists a 'communication gap' between them. No matter what they say, their words will always be misinterpreted and their teachings misrepresented. To truly know what the enlightened one is saying, you have to enlightened yourself.


How true!!
I think that in a world system that is as spiritually blinded as the current one is, it is difficult to present the truth to people. They either tell you that you are a nut, or that you haven't a clue about what you are saying.

I will tell you this. I do know that throughout the centuries, the three major religions of the world have been manipulated to suit the will of the powerful. The doctrine of "hell" is a perfect example of the manipulation of God's word to fulfill the wishes of the powerful, which at the time of it's inception was the church.

Anyone who has earnestly looked into religion, such as it exists in today's world, knows that what I am stating is the truth. It is only those who would take their pastors word at face value who would debate me on this.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

That statement itself seems to not understand the nature of 'the Christ' which is Love, the acceptance of all things..

Seems like it is more like that message than the characterization of the jews and christians in it. Its saying that the jews and christians say 'if you ain't our kind of christian/religion, then you go to hell', whereas mohammed is saying 'you don't need to be a muslim to get to heaven, god is love, not some angry super-being who's going ot punish people in hell forever.

When I find it was quite clear in Jesus' words... LOVE thy neighbour.....

According to the texts that you are choosing to accept as accurate. For hte muslims, God looked at the world, saw that people had screwed up his message, and thus revealed a perfected form of worship, and an accurate historical account, to Mohammed. If you beleive in the bible as the word of god, you'll say Mo was wrong, beleive in the koran, you'll beleive Mo was right and that the christian gospels are perversions.

Like... where did all this hostility come from? and his claims?... like ... Do not fear them.. Fear Me...

Mohammed lived in the brutal world of nomadic arab tribesmen. Jesus lived in the cities and towns of a civilized society, and even he talked about destroying the old world with gods fire and bringing about a new kingdom, etc. As far as fear, the jesus following jews called the gentils that started to worship jesus 'god fearers', they were fearful of god, indeed, the god of the old testament is a horrifying and terrible figure that constantly vents his wrath, so why shouldn't fear be part of the religious system? Christians use the fear of eternal punishment in hell to get converts, even muslims don't do this.

Why does war and fighting and violence seem so prominant?

Because it took place on earth, a warlike and violent place.

and it is the religeon of peace?

You mistake earthly peace, a cessation of violence in the ultimately meaningless and dark materialistic world, for "real" peace, peace with the supreme creator god.

Christ taught Peace, never did I hear him command anyone to KILL unbelievers.

Jesus was a pacifist, yes. What of it? SO was buddha. So have been others. Mohammed wasn't a pacifist. He said, if someone hits you in the face, and tries to kill you, don't just sit there, do something. Jesus told his people to turn the other cheek so that the aggressor could hit it, to not struggle against evil. Mohammed said to struggle against it.
Heck , the original prophet of the christian religion is argueably Abraham. This is a guy who heard voices and decided to kill his son. We'd lock up a lunatic like that today, but the religion of christ was entirely based upon him. Even the crucifxtion is a recapitulation of child sacrifice, how is that not violent?

What I am saying is Jesus never said the things Muhammad said, in most cases it is the opposite

But so what? Jesus, as portrayed in the bible, is different than Mohammed, as portrayed in the Koran. Jesus in the bible is different than jesus in the Koran too, whats it matter?

but the message from the two prophets/messengers is totally different.

Biblical jesus is a pacifist who wants his acolytes to not even defend themselves from extermination, Mohammed said, 'be peaceable, but if someone is trying to kill you, by all means, fight back".
Ironically, most christians follow the ideology of Mohammed, in that sense, rather than Jesus, while at the same time demanding that the muslims follow the ideology of jesus and not fight when attacked.


anarshia
Anyway muslims doesn't believe that Allah or any of the prophet condoned and preached violence .
Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) wars were all defensive

In case you didn't notice, violence in self defense is still violence. Jesus in the gospel and Allah in the koran are very different, allah advocates violence, but in proper proportion and in defense, Jesus doesn't even recommend that.

Unless you're reading directed propaganda , twisted facts and unauthentic sources that leads you to think otherwise .

It woudl be propaganda to say that killing a person that has attacked you isn't violence. It would also be propaganda to equate people moving into islamic territory and preaching against the religion of islam to be a phyiscal attack upon islam that can be justifiably met with murderous violence.

Here are two books by Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Al Shirazi (qas) about war and peace in islam clarifying many of misconceptions about islamic wars :

Why should anyone bother with this? He's not a prophet, he speaks for himself and his interpretations of things. Its irrelevant.


If both are the word of God put in text then shouldnt they both get the same respect despite our differences and in presence of God.

It is just a matter of time until we realize that they all are the same and ONE. Each book is an edition or an expansion pack if u will to its previous version. Combined they make one.

Indeed, its surprising that christians, who accept the gospels AND the jewish holy books, and can say that the christian Trinity is perfectly compatible with the wrathful monotheistic YHWH of the torah, isn't compatible with Allah of the Koran. The jews have the torah, and the torah is acceptable for them, why not also say that the koran is acceptable and a sort of special message, for the muslims. God didn't go through the whole Crucifixtion thing right after adam and eve were kicked out of the garden, so why not accept that the koran can be as compatible as the torah?



theuntoldstory
the only way to Allah is through total submission,

Where does it say that? Islam recognizes that those who are completely at peace with god and worship as god revealed they should to mohammed are pure of spirit and thus can get directly into paradise, but others are 'impure' of spirit and god will purge them of that in somehting like the christian purgatory, then they eventually enter into paradise.


thetimelord
To me the message from Jesus was to look out for false prophets that will come in his name

But thats only because you've chosen to beleive that the christian gospels are in fact an accurate representation of his teachings. Heck, a muslim can beleive that he said there will be false prophets too, and then consider the apostles to be those false prophets, or the fathers of the christian church to be those false prophets.

but the Crucifixion was one of the best-documented events in history

This is simply false. There is not a single account of the crucifixtion that can be demonstrated to be an original eyewitness account, let alone an un-edited version of an eye-witness account. Indeed, we know that there have been edits and later inclusions into the gospels, and they even contradict one another at times.


Was the Devil trying to make Jesus God so we worshiped him would he do that? Even without Jesus we pray to his heavenly version anyway the Father but through Jesus we find a way in.

And a muslim could argue that its nonsense to say that jesus was the physical son of the non-physical supernatural god, and that the idea of three beings 'merged' into one 'god' is blasphemy, that bowing before the cross is idolatry, and that making jesus, who everyone agrees upon was a physical man, into god, is an abomination. They say, jesus was a great prophet, he reformed and advanced the old religion of abraham, and god loved him so much that he snatched him away from the cross to spare his beloved prophet from physical suffering, that god wouldn't punish a holy man, and htat only 'perverted' and errant christians would beleive that god would do that and then turn that man into god himself.
Its simply a matter of beleif. There is no historical evidence that really says that the biblical version of jesus is more accurate than the koranic version, and if anythihng, the pressence of physically immpossible 'miracles' in the bible mean that, at least logically, you have to reject it as being accurate and historical.


Many as 300 prophecies mention Jesus in details including his death

Lots of jews popped up over the years to fufil the prophecies of the old testament. The jesus worshipers beleive he fufilled them, the followers of the others think they fufilled it. THere's no objective way to show that anyone was actually being prophisied. Heck, the prophecies say that the saviours name will be Emmanuel, but this guy's name is Jesus. CHristians get around this by saying that emmanuel was 'code' for jesus.



speakeroftruth
Now, I have read parts of the Koran and I have noticed the emphasis on Mosaic law in it. The problem with emphasizing Mosaic law is that everything changed when Christ came.

According, convientently enough, to the christian gospels, the very peopel trying ot start a new movement seperate from the jewish religious movement. God in the torah doesn't say that the Laws are temporary. You happen to have faith that the jesus of hte gospels is word for word accurate. Most other people don't.


puneetsg
The problem is never the religion itself, but its manipulation after the passing of the protaginist

Religion is an individuals manipulation and interpretation of the message of the original founder. There is no way to know precisely what any of the founders of any of the religions really meant, there is no word for word record of their teachings, and I don't think that there's a single holy book in existence that can be shown to have not been edited (and most show that they indeed were edited).
A person that says that "mohammed preached vile warfare' is, realistically, merely giving their understanding of what they've read, just like a person who says 'mohammed gave a religion of peace'. The same goes for jesus. A pacifistic christian who is outside of any regular church is no more 'right' than the crusading knights as they hacked their way to jerusalem.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 11:59 AM
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well strang together Nygdan...

there is nothing more to say after your post.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by Nygdan
They say, jesus was a great prophet, he reformed and advanced the old religion of abraham, and god loved him so much that he snatched him away from the cross to spare his beloved prophet from physical suffering, that god wouldn't punish a holy man, and htat only 'perverted' and errant christians would beleive that god would do that and then turn that man into god himself.


The Gnostics have a similar view,except they think that the image of Christ was holographic on the cross. However,trying to compare the,at least in my opinion, errant Muslims to Gnosticism is like comparing night and day.



posted on Oct, 5 2006 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't think that there's a single holy book in existence that can be shown to have not been edited (and most show that they indeed were edited).


The 'Guru Granth Sahib', the Holy Book of the Sikhs is in its original form



posted on Oct, 5 2006 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by puneetsg
The 'Guru Granth Sahib', the Holy Book of the Sikhs is in its original form

Doh!

But give it a thousand years, some well intentioned copy-editor will start switching things around.



posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Doh!

But give it a thousand years, some well intentioned copy-editor will start switching things around.


Firstly, you cliamed that there was no 'Holy Book' in its original form. Hence my example. The fact that it is only 300+ years old is irrelevant


Secondly, it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that there will be any changes in it. Simply because this is a very different time and circumstances. It is too widely circulated and is known to too many people.

The time of the bible and the koran were different, books were not as accesible. Any changes made to a text would not be known by the common public.



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