Why there were no planes at the WTC

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posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 11:02 AM
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Dear ferretman:

I am well aware that the picture of a “trident” is from the bottom portion of the building. However that does not matter because the spacing of the perimeter columns was the same as on the upper floors. I’m trying to give viewers a “feel” for the massiveness of these columns. But for good measure, here’s an already frequently posted picture showing the outside wall structure during construction.


Dear CameronFox:

Of course Japanese planes penetrated wooden flight decks. It’s uncertain here how much damage was caused by bombs and how much by the aircraft itself. Since I’m sure this is confusing to other readers, the question we are discussing here is whether or not airplanes can fly through quarter inch thick steel (let alone built-up 14”x14” massive steel box columns). We are debating here in particular, whether or not Japanese fighters could have smashed through steel ship hulls without the assistance of explosive devices. I don’t think this was possible unless the boats had particularly thin shells — which is not out of the question, being that many vessels in WWII were built in a hurry during a time of limited resources.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods




posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 11:15 AM
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Holy crap I just looked at the first post on this thread....

How is it possible that there are people out there like this. That is the conspiracy. Is the american IQ really this low? Or do all the exceptions congregate??

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Sight2reality]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 11:18 AM
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Wizard ~

You posted this on another thred:

"And lastly c) unless we are to rewrite the laws of physics, aluminum aircraft at the reported speeds could not have breached the steel perimeter columns at the WTC. I’m not even going to research the following, because I’m so certain of this; Japanese kamikaze planes never broke through the steel hulls of any warship ever unless they were carrying bombs. But then it would have been those explosive devices doing the damage. Obviously, when crashed on a ship’s surface of a ship these aircraft created major havoc among anyone on deck such as clusters of sailors manning gunning stations. "

The pictures I posted are not ALL wooden ships. Clearly two of the ships are steel and please feel free to research it.

Honestly, I don't know why Im on this thread..the idea of holograms and speakers...and hiding passengers...or whatever ....its such disinformation.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 12:00 PM
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I'm not a believer of the holographic planes theory, however, it is feasible that multiple holographic images could have been projected to complete a life-like boeing 757 hitting the WTC. In the same token, 2nd 3rd holographic image projectors would have been dedicated to cast plane like shadow effects surrounding the boeing 757 upon approaching impact.

I'm not sure if anyone has considered or mentioned this theory as of yet.



[edit on 11-12-2006 by syntaxer]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 01:12 PM
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Dear CameronFox:

Here are the two Navy damage reports for the USS Sterett and the USS Sangamon. In both cases the planes were carrying bombs. So to me the questions remains open whether or not planes punched holes in steel ships’ hulls in WWII.




Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 01:17 PM
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thanks Wizard.... my question is, why did you post this:

So to me the questions remains open whether or not planes punched holes in steel ships’ hulls in WWII.

When the reports both state that the bombs detonated BELOW the flight deck.

Can you find out what the flight deck was made out of ?



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 01:28 PM
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Dear CameronFox:

I’m shooting from the hip here (no time to research) — but as far as I can remember, flight decks on American WWII aircraft carriers were made from wood. Usually some fancy tropical rainforest hardwood such as mahogany or teak (no joke). If you look at the picture you posted you can clearly see the wooden planks on the USS Sangamon. However the Brits used armored flight decks.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by syntaxer
I'm not a believer of the holographic planes theory, however, it is feasible that multiple holographic images could have been projected to complete a life-like boeing 757 hitting the WTC. In the same token, 2nd 3rd holographic image projectors would have been dedicated to cast plane like shadow effects surrounding the boeing 757 upon approaching impact.



Ok, here is my problem (not directing this towards you, syntaxer):


It's one thing for this to be possible, which is one discussion.

It's a completely different thing for someone to suggest this is what happened.


And both of these are totally separate from actually proving! that this happened, or negating the possibility of other theories.


From my perspective, there is a total lack of precedent here, to say this should or should not have happened. I have seen planes fly into concrete walls and be totally vaporized by the high-speed impact, and yet they don't slow down at all as they continue to roll right into the wall. When this should happen, and when it shouldn't happen, are not clearly established, imo, and this is all a matter of opinion, and cannot be conclusively shown without actual physical research into this stuff. And I doubt anything like that is going to take place any time soon.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Sight2reality
Holy crap I just looked at the first post on this thread....

How is it possible that there are people out there like this. That is the conspiracy. Is the american IQ really this low? Or do all the exceptions congregate??


Dear Slight2reality:

Holy Toledo! By the beard of the almighty Zeus! Donner und Blitzen!

How is it possible that there are so many people out there who still believe there WERE airplanes crashing on 9-11! No damage reports ever published. No parts ever shown to be found (at least not ones that actually might have come from the flights in question). No hull insurance paid out on any of the aircraft. Eerie silence from the passengers’ families. Very odd passenger lists to begin with. Planes at 25% capacity — if any of you have been on commercial flights in the past fifteen years you know that the aircraft are pretty well packed. Impossible crash scenarios. Impossible flight patterns. How much more evidence is needed to question the presence of planes? Yeah, Slight2reality, maybe were aren’t as smart as we should be. Could be all the Kool-Aid our parents fed to us.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by CameronFox
ULTIMA...the conversation I was having with wizard was the ability of a Kamikazee to breech a ship. He claimed it was not possible.

Per these pictures you can't tell what actually made it in.

You can specualate all you want.


Well since we do not see and wing damage to the ship i would say that the wings did not penatrate.



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by Wizard_In_The_Woods
Very odd passenger lists to begin with. Planes at 25% capacity — if any of you have been on commercial flights in the past fifteen years you know that the aircraft are pretty well packed.


What is so "ODD?" Here are a few of the people that were killed on flight 11 when it crashed into the WTC. To me your post is an insult to the lives of those lost and their families.

Here are a few of them. Perhaps you can get in touch with their families and ask them why they are so "silent".

Anna Williams Allison, 48, of Stoneham, Massachusetts, was the founder of A2 Software Solutions, a firm that assists companies in software development. Allison had more than 19 years' experience in the software development industry and was a frequent speaker and trainer at national and local conferences.
David Angell, 54, of Pasadena, California, was the creator and executive producer of the hit NBC sitcom "Frasier." A native of West Barrington, Rhode Island, Angell entered the Army after graduating from college and served at the Pentagon until 1972. He worked in insurance and engineering before selling a script for a TV series in 1977. In 1983, he joined the TV series "Cheers" as a staff writer and began working with co-supervising producers Peter Casey and David Lee. This team formed a production company, creating and producing "Wings" in 1990 and "Frasier" in 1993. The trio won 24 Emmys.
Lynn Angell, 45, of Pasadena, California, was the wife of "Frasier" creator and executive producer David Angell. The Angells were returning from a wedding on the East Coast to attend the Emmy Awards.
Seima Aoyama
Myra Aronson, 52, of Charlestown, Massachusetts, was a press and analyst relations manager for Compuware Corp.
Christine Barbuto, 32, of Brookline, Massachusetts, was a buyer for TJX Cos., the off-price retailer of apparel and home fashions. She was on her way to California on a buying trip. Barbuto is survived her father and two sisters. She had worked for TJX for five years.
Berry Berenson, 53, of Los Angeles, California, was an actress and photographer. She was the widow of actor Anthony Perkins, who died in 1992, and sister of actress and model Marisa Berenson. She is survived by two sons, Osgood, an actor, and Elvis. Born into an aristocratic family, Berenson appeared in the movies "Cat People" (1982), "Winter Kills" (1979) and "Remember My Name" (1978).
Carolyn Beug, 48, of Los Angeles, California, was traveling with her mother, Mary Wahlstrom. They had gone to Boston to drop off relatives at a nearby college and were returning home.
Carol Bouchard, 43, of Warwick, Rhode Island, was a Kent County Hospital emergency room secretary.
Robin Caplin was from Natick, Massachusetts.
Neilie Casey, 32, of Wellesley, Massachusetts, was a merchandise planning manager for TJX Cos., the off-price retailer of apparel and home fashions. She worked for TJX for eight years. Casey is survived by her husband and a 7-month-old daughter.
Jeffrey Coombs, 42, of Abington, Massachusetts, was a security analyst for Compaq Computer. He is survived by his wife, Christie, and three children, Meagan, 10; Julia, 7; and Matt, 12.
Tara Creamer, 30, of Worcester, Massachusetts, was a merchandise planning manager for TJX Cos., the off-price retailer of apparel and home fashions. She had worked for TJX for eight years. Creamer is survived by her husband, John, and two children, Colin, 4, and Nora, 1.
Thelma Cuccinello, 71, was a Wilmot, New Hampshire, resident with 10 grandchildren. She was on her way to visit a sister in California. Daughter Cheryl O'Brien gave her mom a ride to catch a bus to Logan International Airport in Boston. "I was the last one to see her," O'Brien said. "I got to kiss her and say 'I love you' and 'Have a nice trip.' "


[edit on 12-12-2006 by CameronFox]



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Wizard_In_The_Woods
Very odd passenger lists to begin with. Planes at 25% capacity — if any of you have been on commercial flights in the past fifteen years you know that the aircraft are pretty well packed.


passenger density on flights i have taken over the years fluctuated wildly

i have been bumped off over booked flights , and on others managed to talk my way upto a free first class upgrade on a flight the was < 10% full

scheduled services have to fly , almost regardless , charter services OTOH go to extra ordinary lenghts to get a full manifest offering last minuite discounts to get some revenue from every seat

maybe you are confusing the two ?

but on the issue of 9/11 passenger density . if the 25% capacity you cite was indeed odd , then i trust that the manifests for tuesday 4th september 2001 will show that flights drom logan airport on that day to the same destinations were @ far higer capacity - and you will be able to cite this

few non commercial travelers want to fly on a tuesday - the last bargain bucket flight i got back to the UK was on a tuesday morning , because strangely the surcharge for flying back sunday was higer than the cost of a no frills hotel room

so as i did not have to be back @ work - like the people who reluctantly paid the extra tarrif to return sunday night obviously did

it made sense to stop out another day and evening - but i digress



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by brianv — Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:26 am Post subject: Flight 11 Eyeball www.letsrollforums.com...

Some months ago I decided to start looking into the idea that if Flights 11 and 77 didn't take off that day, then where did the dead passengers come from. So, I decided to look for databases which kept Death Records of everybody in the USA. I found two such websites, from where, they mine public records databases.

knowx.com...

www.stevemorse.org...

Both these websites are "front ends" to the following databases :

Death Records, Public Records, SSA Master Death File Database

They claim 80% + accuracy, they also are quite "smart" they do phonetics and alternative spelling tests etc.

So lets get started with flight 11, but first let me explain my search methods:

I start with a wide open search on the Name only at www.stevemorse.org... this returns the SSN of the person, if that person existed. I then cross reference with the other web - knowx.com...

Then I do a more restrictive search Name and State and cross reference. If the State is not listed I search by 'All States'

Then I do a Name, State and Date of Death = Sept 11 2001. I then note the Age of the person if they Died Sept 11 2001.

www.cnn.com...

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 11

American Airlines Flight 11, from Boston, Massachusetts, to Los Angeles, California, crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center with 92 people on board.

1. John Ogonowski, Mass - 1 -1994 ]

Key : [There is 1 Death Record for this Name/State, Year of Death 1994 ]

2. Thomas Mc Guinness, New Hamp - 0

3. Barbara Arestegui, Mass - 0

4. Jeffrey Collman, All States - 0

5. Sara Low, Arkansas - 0

6. Karen Martin, All States - 55 - No

Key : [There are Death Records for 55 Karen Martins, across all States. None died Sept 11 2001 ]

7. Kathleen Nicosia, All States - 2 - No

8. Betty Ong, Mass - 0

9. Jean Roger, Mass - 0

10. Dianne Snyder, Mass - 1 - 10/9/1993

11. Madeline Sweeney, Mass - 1 - Jan 1977

12. Anna Williams Allison, Mass - 0

13. David Angell, Cal - 2 - No

14. Lynn Angell, Calif - 0

15. Seima Aoyama - 0

16. Myra Aronson, Mass - 0

17. Christine Barbuto, Mass - 0

18. Berry Berenson, Cal - 0

19. Carolyn Beug, Cali - 0

20. Carol Bouchard, Rhode Island - 0

21. Robin Caplin, Mass - 0

22. Neilie Casey, Mass - 0

23. Jeffrey Coombs, Mass - 1 - Aug 1988

24. Tara Creamer, Mass - 0

25. Thelma Cuccinello , New Ham - 1 - 09/11/2001 - Yes - Age 71 - Issued in Mass.

26. Patrick Currivan, All States - 0

27. Andrew Curry Green, Mass - 0

28. Brian Dale, NJ - 0

29. David DiMeglio, Mass - 0

30. Donald Ditullio, Mass - 0

31. Albert Dominguez Australia N/A

32. Alex Filipov, Mass - 0

33. Carol Flyzik, New Ham - 0

34. Paul Friedman, Mass - 0

35. Karleton D.B. Fyfe, Mass - 0

36. Peter Gay, Mass - 1 - Jan 1969

37. Linda George, Mass -1 - Aug 1980

38. Edmund Glazer, Cali - 0

39. Lisa Fenn Gordenstein, Mass - 0

40. Paige Farley Hackel, Mass - 0

41. Peter Hashem, Mass - 0

42. Robert Hayes, Mass - 21 - No

43. Ted Hennessy,Mass - 0

44. John Hofer, All states - 89 - No

45. Cora Holland, Mass - 2 - No

46. Nicholas Humber, Mass - 0

47. John Jenkins, All States - 1497 - No

48. Charles Jones, Mass - 57 - No

49. Robin Kaplan, Mass - 0

50. Barbara Keating, Cal - 2 - Sept 11 2001 - Yes - Age 73 - Issued in NJ

51. David Kovalcin, New Ham - 0

52. Judy Larocque, Mass - 0

53. Jude Larson, Cali - 0

54. Natalie Larson, Cali - 0

55. N. Janis Lasden, Mass - 0

56. Daniel John Lee, Calif - 0 (The Backstreet Boys Roadie)

57. Daniel C. Lewin, Mass ?????????????/? N/A

58. Susan MacKay,Mass - 1 - Aug 1967

59. Chris Mello, All States - 0

60. Jeff Mladenik, Illinois - 0

61. Antonio Montoya, All States - 82 - No

62. Carlos Montoya, All States - 23 -Sept 11 2001 Yes - Age 36 - Issued in CA

63. Laura Lee Morabito, Mass - 0

64. Mildred Naiman, Mass - 1 -11/09/2001 Yes - Age 81 - Issued in Mass.

65. Laurie Neira - 1 - 11/09/2001 Yes - Age 49 - Issued in Mass.

66. Renee Newell, Rhode Island - 0

67. Jacqueline Norton, Maine - 0

68. Robert Norton, Maine - 5 - 11/09/2001 Yes - Aged 85 - Issued in Maine

69. Jane Orth, Mass - 0

70. Thomas Pecorelli, Calif - 0

71. Sonia Morales Puopolo, Mass - 0

72. David Retik, Mass - 0

73. Philip Rosenzweig, Mass - 0

74. Richard Ross, Mass - 8 - No

75. Jessica Sachs, Mass - 0

76. Rahma Salie, Mass - 0

77. Heather Smith, Mass - 1 - 01/05/1999

78. Douglas Stone, New Hampshire - 0

79. Xavier Suarez, All States - 1 - 11/28/2003

80. Michael Theodoridis, Mass - 0

81. James Trentini, Mass - 1 - 11/09/2001 Yes - Age 65 -- Issued in Mass.

82. Mary Trentini, Mass -1 - 11/09/2001 Yes -- Age 68 -- Issued in S.Carolina

83. Mary Wahlstrom, Utah - 1 - 11/09/2001 Yes -- Age 78 --Issued in Ohio

84. Kenneth Waldie, Mass - 0

85. John Wenckus, Cali - 0

86. Candace Lee Williams, Conn - 0

87. Christopher Zarba, Mass - 0

Ok, NOT an Arab name in sight !! Tsk tsk. There's an Israeli Ultra Terrorist on Board though, but the invisible Arabs shot and stabbed him with invisible knives and guns that they didnt leave in the car parked at the Airport, containing their Kor'ans and their Flight Instructions printed in Arabic.

Ok now lets look at a breakdown of the figures.

Leaving aside our Mr Lewin and the Ausssie chap that leaves us with 85 names.

There are Death Records for 28 out of the 85 NAMES , about 32%

Out of those, only 9 DIED on Sept 11, 2001 -- or about 9% of the entire passenger list number.

Of the nine people who died on Sept 11 2001 their combined AGE was 606
Average age 67.

I personally think that the names of a few elderly people who died in nursing homes were added as "packing" to boost the passenger lists.

There are NO Death Records for 70% of the alleged passenger NAMES.

There are NO Sept 11 2001 Death Records for 91% of the alleged passenger NAMES

#############VICTIM COMPENSATION FUND#########
Quote:
For those eligible for the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund of 2001, contact the US Department of Justice:
In the United States:
888.560.0844
International:
212.625.1645

www.usdoj.gov...
Yes it's a dead link!!

Thanks to Vincent Sammartino for the following information.

And here is a link to a PDF of all the claimants

Flight 11: only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Judy Larocque
Laurie Neira
Candace Lee Williams

There are Death Records for only one of these people.

66. Laurie Neira - 1 - 11/09/2001 Yes - Age 49 - Issued in Mass.


Laurie Neira. Who was Laurie Neira?

You may have also noticed the "clustering" of the verified Sept 11 2001 Deaths. I don't think this is a coincidence. They were shoved in together!!

Last edited by brianv on Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:10 am; edited 5 times in total


Dear CameronFox:

I often get accused of being disrespectful here on ATS — so I’m used to it by now. But how can I be an insult to those who haven’t died or may not have even existed?

1. Anna Williams Allison (48) — no death record on file
2. David Angell (54) — no death record on file matching age or location
3. Lynn Angell (45) — no death record on file matching age or location
4. Seima Aoyama — no death record on file
5. Myra Aronson (52) — no death record on file
6. Christine Barbuto (32) — no death record on file
7. Berry Berenson (53) — no death record on file
8. Carolyn Beug (48) — no death record on file
9. Carol Bouchard (43) — no death record on file
10. Robin Caplin — no death record on file
11. Neilie Casey (32) — no death record on file
12. Jeffrey Coombs (42) — as of 24-Jun-2005 died August 1988 — as of 12-Dec-2006 died 11-Sep-2006
13. Tara Creamer (30) — as of 24-Jun-2005 no death record on file — as of 12-Dec-2006 died 11-Sep-2006
14. Thelma Cuccinello (71) — died 11 September 2001

The status of the other “passengers” of flight AA11 can be found in the quote above. Also there are some interesting perspectives on some of these peoples possible backgrounds being discussed on the that same forum — letsrollforum.com www.letsrollforums.com...

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 02:04 PM
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If we consider that the goverment used holograms and bombs to create the explosions. that would raise several questions. eg

where are the passengers?
why use such an elaboarte hoax?
how advanced are the us goverment and why would irans nuke technology be such treat?



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 03:55 PM
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Wicked~

This isn't a forum to attack people personally, so I will refrain from doing so. That being said, I will however attack the POST. LIES LIES LIES! There is not ONE shred of PROOF. You post stuff thats on a BLOG!

WickedWoods:

Flight 11: only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:
Judy Larocque
Laurie Neira
Candace Lee Williams
There are Death Records for only one of these people.
66. Laurie Neira - 1 - 11/09/2001 Yes - Age 49 - Issued in Mass.
Laurie Neira. Who was Laurie Neira?




Judy Larocque? Well she was from Framingham Massachusetts and was the Founder and CEO of Market Perspectives, a research firm that offers online and on-site surveys. Before founding the company in 1993, she was the principal of Emergent Marketing, an executive marketing consulting firm. She is survived by two daughters, Danielle Lemack of Chicago and Carie Lemack, 26, of Cambridge, Mass.; and a sister, Diane Marshall.


If you would like her obituary and letters from her friends and family please: www.september11victims.com...



Who is Laurie Neira? Well she was real too! Why dont you read this tribute her daughter put together for this loving mother that was taken away from her family...MURDERED!
livingtributes.com...

here is one paragraph if you dont feel like clicking:

Laurie Neira was the glue that held our family together. She was the most loving and caring person I have ever known. She was a loving and devoted Wife and Mother to me and my brother Christopher. She was also a doting Grandmother to my daughter Amanda-she couldn’t wait to be a Grandma! She was taken from our family too soon and left a void that will never be filled again.-Daughter, Francisca (Niera) Webster





Or go here to read about the song that was sung for her by her SISTER!
www.peacefultomorrows.org...

PEACEFUL TOMORROWS MEMBERS SPEAK AND SING ON APRIL 20
Amber Amundson, who lost her husband Craig at the Pentagon, read a letter she wrote last November in which she pleaded with the President to end the killing. Derrill Bodley spoke and performed his song "Each to Give" which he dedicated to his daughter, Deora, who died on flight 93. As the march to the Capitol began, the morning sunshine gave way to mid-afternoon drizzle but the march continued with an ending rally just south of the White House. A hush fell over the crowd at the final rally as Kristina Olsen, who lost her sister Laurie Neira on Flight 11, sang her song "The Art of Being Kind" which was dedicated to her sister.


Ok there is two...let me find some proof of your other list.....

Here is Christine Barbuto who died with several other members of the TJ Max company....


www.ecnnews.com...

"We know that you all knew Christine in your own special way. To us, she was a loving daughter, passionate sister, and a devoted aunt," writes Dianne Walsh, one of Barbuto's two sisters.



So YES....these were REAL people with REAL families. Just becasue you cant find the PAPER WORK...does NOT mean they didn't exist. Your post is GARBAGE and an INSULT!




[edit on 12-12-2006 by CameronFox]



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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Dear CameronFox:

It’s perfectly understandable that you’re upset. And I have no problem whatsoever with you attacking me or my post. I’m not that sensitive. I only get concerned when moderators step in — because they have the power to delete entire threads. I’ve seen them remove many man-hours worth of research at a whim. Microsoft structured query language tables are easily erasable. So don’t hold back. And I don’t mind foul language either, I really don’t.

I don’t post or quote things without at least moderately checking them for accuracy. All the names that I directly typed myself have exactly the social security death index status I described. The search engines show no ss-death records at all for neither Judy Larocque nor Christine Barbuto. And I don’t think that’s “normal”. I can enter names of any my deceased relatives or friends at www.stevemorse.org... and they always show up perfectly. I do not accept the fact that so many of the passengers names have no records. You can read more about “Media published fake passenger lists for American Airlines Flight 11” at portland.indymedia.org.... It’s a long article and somewhat tiring to read but there is nothing simple about 9-11.

You seem like an idealistic person CameronFox. It may be hard for you to fathom what evil people will do for money or to preserve their self-interests. It’s beyond the pale. Therein lies the true “wickedness”.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 12:01 AM
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Wizard,

I looked into the website you posted. Thank you. I was freaking out looking into what you and many others have claimed. Honestly I found it VERY odd and disturbed me. I double checked your allegations and they were accurate. I called my best friend who works with the S.S. department and he verified that the SSDI is VERY accurate. I also looked up research that was done on the accuracy of the SSDI and here is their findings:


Conclusions: The SSDI is an accurate measure of death outcomes and appears to have the advantage of finding deaths among patients lost to follow-up.
-Copyright © 2006 by the Society for Academic Emergency Medicine.
www.aemj.org...

So, you can imagine i was sitting here typing in EVERYONE's name i knew that has passed away. Looking at the names and SS numbers of loved ones was a little odd and a little sad.

I decided to search some high profile disasters:

1. Space Shuttle Columbia's Astronauts without SSDI files:
William McCool - No file found
Kalpana Chawla- No file found (she was from India but was an American Astronaut)
www.nasa.gov...


2. Space Shuttle Challenger's Astronauts without SSDI files:
Judith Resnik - no file found
Gregory Jarvis- no file found
and finally: Sharon Christa McAuliffe- no file found ( I searched both names)
history.nasa.gov...

Then, I decided to look into other disasters... Since I am from New England I decided to search the names of the victims of the Station Night Club that caught on fire in Rhode Island killing 100 people.
Well. I started the search and the 4 of the first 5 names came up on the SSDI. Then...as I kept going...out of the first 17 names, 7 were not there! Does that mean these people didn't die? Never existed? No way..not after the countless law suits that have been going on since the fire in February of 2003.
en.wikipedia.org...

Here is a link to the list of victims:

cbs4boston.com...

Please feel free to check out what I did look into.

Also, I looked into other tragic accidents. More specificaly airline crashes. TWA Flight 800 and a couple other smaller ones. I searched the names of American vicitims and double checked spelling ect ( i found a few spelling mistakes) I found the same results. several of the victims were not in the SSDI. So, I dug into the website of this Steven Morse. He has a FAQ section where I found this:


6. My aunt died a few years ago but I can't find her record in the database. Is this a complete list of everyone who died?

When a person dies, the funeral home or the family sends in a form to notify the Social Security Administration about the death. Usually the person is entered in the SSDI database at that time. However every month the Social Security Administration runs a program to check for all death certificates issued that month. If it finds out about the death from this program prior to being notified about the death by the funeral home or family member, then the person's name will never appear in the SSDI. I know, this sounds very strange, and the logic behind it escapes me. But I have been told this by a Social Security employee, and I have no reason to doubt him.

Of course even if the proper notification was made to the Social Security Administration, it might take a few months before the online versions of the SSDI database are updated to include that death.
www.stevemorse.org...

Im not sure how accurate this is and my friend that works in the SS office wasn't sure.

I just found it ironic that when it came to high profile tragedies...you saw lots of ommisions.

I will try to find some time tomorrow to call the SS office to see how exactly this works.

Thanks again for your input.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Dear CameronFox:

In all fairness, you may have a point when you mention that the social security death index doesn’t always list people who perished in disasters. Perhaps this has something to do with if a person’s body hasn’t been found then no definitive (death) status can be issued. But that’s just a wild guess on my part.

In the case of 9-11, you would think that in practically all cases the victims had family members who would have made claims toward the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. Yet from flight AA11 only three victims — Judith Larocque, Laurie Ann Neira and Candice Lee Williams — had representatives making claims. That in itself clamors for an explanation. 911digitalarchive.org...

Lastly, the following question has been bothering me for a long time. It’s such an obvious oddity that I almost dare not ask it, for fear of appearing utterly incompetent for having overlooked the answer. But here goes. Why aren’t any of the “highjackers” listed on any of the manifests, ever? If anyone has a straightforward explanation for this, please do enlighten me. I will gladly eat my humble pie.

Thanks CameronFox for that last post of yours. The fact that you know someone who directly works for the Dept. of SS is immensely helpful. Nothing trumps first-hand information.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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Hey Wizard ~

Thanks for the link to the Compensation Fund. As you will see that list is dated April, 2002. I happened to find the final report with the dollar amounts, and where they were spent. The government actually spent close to 6 BILLION dollars in compensation.
www.usdoj.gov... Page 102


In the case of 9-11, you would think that in practically all cases the victims had family members who would have made claims toward the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. Yet from flight AA11 only three victims — Judith Larocque, Laurie Ann Neira and Candice Lee Williams — had representatives making claims. That in itself clamors for an explanation.


I believe this was accurate back in in April of 02, but if you look at the final report, you will see that there were 65 settlements on Flight AA11. This dollar amount was almost $120,000,000.00.

again please refer to: www.usdoj.gov... Page 102

Flight 93: 25 claims for over $53,000,000.00.
Flight 175: 46 for almost $70,000,000.00.
Flight 77: 33 claims for almost $58,000,000.00.

As you can see, the Compensation Fund paid out around 300 million dollars to those families that lost loved ones on the 4 airplanes.


As far as the terrorist NOT on the passenger lists, what I was told was that each airline chose not to put them on the manifests that were distributed out of respect for the families of the victims. Do you know of any origianal mainfests that exist? If so, please send me the link.

Thanks Wizard ~

CF



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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Thier are several families not taking the money who want to know what really happened that day.

newsmine.org...

Meanwhile, with official findings of blame for the attacks slow in coming, hundreds of victims' survivors are spurning the government cash and flocking to federal courts. Undeterred by the difficulty in proving that anyone was culpably negligent — or by roadblocks set up by Congress and the Bush administration — the determined survivors are seeking money and facts on their own.

"Someday, please God, I will see my son again," says Kathleen Ashton, of Woodside, N.Y., whose son, Thomas Ashton, 21, died at the World Trade Center. "I need to be able to look at him and say, 'Tommy, I did the right thing.' The right thing is not to take the (government) money. The right thing is to try to get answers, to see what sort of lapses allowed the murderers to do what they were able to do."

Nearly 100 individual and class-action lawsuits have been filed. More are likely by this Sept. 11, which under New York state law — the guideline being used for claims related to the attacks— is the two-year deadline for filing personal-injury lawsuits. Behind some of the lawsuits are prominent lawyers who have won billions of dollars from tobacco and asbestos companies in verdicts and settlements.





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