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Why there were no planes at the WTC

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posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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I hate to crash the party - but that is computer 3D modelling overlayed in real time video, using positional sensors. It does not apply to projecting holograms. Nice all the same.

Any source on the von Braun warning?




posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71




Also, when was the last time you were in a 'large' jet piloting or navigating, a 767 sim or real plane?


April 8, 2001 L-1011 XU-300 Ahmedabad-Kuala Lumpur Flight 300 4 hours 4 minutes as Pilot in Command.


For someone who believes in such black technology I find it hard to beleive that you do not understand that with the 'years' of training these guys had at numerous locations you feel they could not have accomplished what they did. Are you speaking of personal experience, or like the rest of us from research or second hand conversations with pilots.


I hold FAA Airline Transport Rating #1455891 with Multiengine Land and Sea, Rotorcraft Helicopter, Rotorcraft Gyroplane and 23 type ratings: Boeing 707-720, Boeing 727, DC-8, Lockheed L-1011, Lockheed Constellation, Douglas B-26, Douglas DC-3, Grumman Gulfstream 159, Convair 240-340-440, Hawker-Siddley 125, Learjet, Boeing B-17, Martin 202-404, Grumman TBM, Lockheed P-38, North American B-25 and Ford Trimotor. In additon I hold a Flight Engineer Rating for Turbojet aircraft, Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Flight Instructor with the following ratings: Airplane, Instrument, Rotorcraft Helicopter, Rotorcraft Gyroplane and Glider. I also hold Control Tower Operator, Flight Navigator and Ground Instructor with the following ratings: Advanced and Instrument. I also hold Parachute Rigger (Backpack) and Aircraft Dispatcher. No FAA certificated airman holds as many FAA Certificates as I do. I was one of 2 honored guests at the 25th Anniversary of the Federal Aviation Administration at OKC in 1983. The other was Bill Conrad who had the most Type Ratings (52). I have flown 122 different types of aircraft including the Lockheed Mach 2 F-104 Starfighter. I have flown in 58 different countries and as Check Airman in the L-1011 for American Trans Air and was the first FAA certificated Check Airman for North Atlantic navigation for that airline. At one time I held 19 speed records including Around The World speed record in the Lear Jet set March 23-26 1966. I flew the largest airplane ever raced at Reno, the Douglas B-26 in 1968. My certificates can be checked at the FAA website. I retired in 1999 with 19,481 hours of which 17,021 hours were Pilot In Command, 3,698 of which were Pilot In Command in the Lockheed L-1011; 15,325 hours of which were in jet aircraft (1,2,3 and 4 engine). 7,712 hours were Pilot In Command on 4 engine jet transports. I know a little about airplanes and this is what I am basing my opinions on in this and other threads.


Maybe you should stop smoking moon rocks and telling others how incorrect they are.


I smoke Macanudo Hyde Park in Maduro. Occasionaly, a friend will drop by with an Esplendido (Cohiba). I haven't tried a moon rock, how are they?



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR
Any source on the von Braun warning?

The Disclosure Project. I trust you have watched the 2001 National Press Club video. Dr Carol Rosin, fast forward to her testimony. Also watch UFO - The Greatest Story Ever Denied - part 4 features an extended interview with Dr Carol Rosin and her dealings with von Braun. He kept stressing about the final phase of a faked 'alien invasion' and the timeline being "speeding up faster than anyone could possibly imagine".

You are right about the hologram demonstration but it still shows the tech is out there and looks realistic - now take a step beyond that and imagine what tech they have behind closed doors.....


[edit on 25-10-2006 by RiotComing]



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by esdad71




Also, when was the last time you were in a 'large' jet piloting or navigating, a 767 sim or real plane?


April 8, 2001 L-1011 XU-300 Ahmedabad-Kuala Lumpur Flight 300 4 hours 4 minutes as Pilot in Command.


For someone who believes in such black technology I find it hard to beleive that you do not understand that with the 'years' of training these guys had at numerous locations you feel they could not have accomplished what they did. Are you speaking of personal experience, or like the rest of us from research or second hand conversations with pilots.


I hold FAA Airline Transport Rating #1455891 with Multiengine Land and Sea, Rotorcraft Helicopter, Rotorcraft Gyroplane and 23 type ratings: Boeing 707-720, Boeing 727, DC-8, Lockheed L-1011, Lockheed Constellation, Douglas B-26, Douglas DC-3, Grumman Gulfstream 159, Convair 240-340-440, Hawker-Siddley 125, Learjet, Boeing B-17, Martin 202-404, Grumman TBM, Lockheed P-38, North American B-25 and Ford Trimotor. In additon I hold a Flight Engineer Rating for Turbojet aircraft, Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Flight Instructor with the following ratings: Airplane, Instrument, Rotorcraft Helicopter, Rotorcraft Gyroplane and Glider. I also hold Control Tower Operator, Flight Navigator and Ground Instructor with the following ratings: Advanced and Instrument. I also hold Parachute Rigger (Backpack) and Aircraft Dispatcher. No FAA certificated airman holds as many FAA Certificates as I do. I was one of 2 honored guests at the 25th Anniversary of the Federal Aviation Administration at OKC in 1983. The other was Bill Conrad who had the most Type Ratings (52). I have flown 122 different types of aircraft including the Lockheed Mach 2 F-104 Starfighter. I have flown in 58 different countries and as Check Airman in the L-1011 for American Trans Air and was the first FAA certificated Check Airman for North Atlantic navigation for that airline. At one time I held 19 speed records including Around The World speed record in the Lear Jet set March 23-26 1966. I flew the largest airplane ever raced at Reno, the Douglas B-26 in 1968. My certificates can be checked at the FAA website. I retired in 1999 with 19,481 hours of which 17,021 hours were Pilot In Command, 3,698 of which were Pilot In Command in the Lockheed L-1011; 15,325 hours of which were in jet aircraft (1,2,3 and 4 engine). 7,712 hours were Pilot In Command on 4 engine jet transports. I know a little about airplanes and this is what I am basing my opinions on in this and other threads.



so which one of those makes you an expert on holographics???



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear
And you think Arab hijackers with limited experience could work all that AND fly the Boeing 767?



Originally posted by SteveR
I think that says it all. How can you attribute such precision to arab hijackers?



Why is it that one of the core tenets of the 911 conspiracy beliefs is that Arabs are somehow inherently inferior pilots?



Bigots.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by BlueSkyes
so which one of those makes you an expert on holographics???


I'm still waiting for someone to explain how existing technology was used to creat these "holograms."

No pie in the sky science fiction, but known and demonstratable technology.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:27 PM
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howard i also continue to ask how they got thousands of people to hear the plane that day...not much of an answer so far...



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how existing technology was used to creat these "holograms."

No pie in the sky science fiction, but known and demonstratable technology.


Why? I don't endorse this theory, but do you seriously think that all military technology is available and readily demonstrable to civilians by civilian organizations? Do you realize the ultimate point behind the military classifying things in the first place?



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how existing technology was used to creat these "holograms."


Not meaning to cut John's grass here but he's saying, if I got it right, that the gov. has better tech than they're letting on. THAT I don't find unreasonable.


No pie in the sky science fiction, but known and demonstratable technology.



Like the 60's Star Trek communicators that look and work pretty much like today's cell phones?



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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Congratulations on your accomplishments. Maybe you knew my great uncle Art, he was a test pilot in some of the programs you mentioned. He was a very interesting man who I enjoyed talking with before he died.

However, it seems that you have never piloted the crafts in question, so how can you make a judgement on the complexity of flying them? Furthermore, in your opinion, could you have piloted those craft into the WTC as they did with your wealth of knowledge and experience in the cockpit?


and, since you took the time to write that bio, how about the answers on the holo's, the passengers and why you think those guys could not have pulled this off. I think you are letting ego get the best of you by stating that they could not have done it.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by BlueSkyes


so which one of those makes you an expert on holographics???


Here was the question:


Are you speaking of personal experience, or like the rest of us from research or second hand conversations with pilots.


Here was the answer.

I hold FAA Airline Transport Rating #1455891 with Multiengine Land and Sea, Rotorcraft Helicopter, Rotorcraft Gyroplane and 23 type ratings: Boeing 707-720, Boeing 727, DC-8, Lockheed L-1011, Lockheed Constellation, Douglas B-26, Douglas DC-3, Grumman Gulfstream 159, Convair 240-340-440, Hawker-Siddley 125, Learjet, Boeing B-17, Martin 202-404, Grumman TBM, Lockheed P-38, North American B-25 and Ford Trimotor. In additon I hold a Flight Engineer Rating for Turbojet aircraft, Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Flight Instructor with the following ratings: Airplane, Instrument, Rotorcraft Helicopter, Rotorcraft Gyroplane and Glider. I also hold Control Tower Operator, Flight Navigator and Ground Instructor with the following ratings: Advanced and Instrument. I also hold Parachute Rigger (Backpack) and Aircraft Dispatcher. No FAA certificated airman holds as many FAA Certificates as I do. I was one of 2 honored guests at the 25th Anniversary of the Federal Aviation Administration at OKC in 1983. The other was Bill Conrad who had the most Type Ratings (52). I have flown 122 different types of aircraft including the Lockheed Mach 2 F-104 Starfighter. I have flown in 58 different countries and as Check Airman in the L-1011 for American Trans Air and was the first FAA certificated Check Airman for North Atlantic navigation for that airline. At one time I held 19 speed records including Around The World speed record in the Lear Jet set March 23-26 1966. I flew the largest airplane ever raced at Reno, the Douglas B-26 in 1968. My certificates can be checked at the FAA website. I retired in 1999 with 19,481 hours of which 17,021 hours were Pilot In Command, 3,698 of which were Pilot In Command in the Lockheed L-1011; 15,325 hours of which were in jet aircraft (1,2,3 and 4 engine). 7,712 hours were Pilot In Command on 4 engine jet transports. I know a little about airplanes and this is what I am basing my opinions on in this and other threads.



We were talking about pilots and evaluating pilots and their training. How did holographics get into the question?



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
Why is it that one of the core tenets of the 911 conspiracy beliefs is that Arabs are somehow inherently inferior pilots?

Bigots.


Ripping a word out of context and then presenting it as racism?

Nice try..

You full well know no-one here is suggesting that Arabs are inferior pilots. When we refer to the Arab hijackers, we refer to the group as "created" by the government and looking at such information we can see said group is completely lacking in skills needed for their said crime.

If anyone is a bigot, it is those who criticise every aspect of the 9/11 truth movement and vehemently support the ongoing foreign policy and oppression of the middle east. Those are the people who do the greatest diservice to Arabs and indeed their own country. No offence intended, ofcourse.


As said above, one of my deductions from available evidence is that professional pilots flew the planes - not the stereotypical terrorist. And if that's so, I can unequivocally guarantee you such personnel are not from "terrorist cells", regardless of being native to the middle east.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:15 PM
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You bought up the holographics John. That is why we are asking the questions. I know your history, your families history, and it is quite a read and very interesting. I am not doubting the person, just the answers. However, please answer the questions about the imaging and the passengers/crew.

As far a military and black technologies, there are things that the government possesses that most people cannot fathom. A very close relative worked for Martin in the 70's through the 90's. The tech the public sees is generally 30 years behind what is developed, and it is growing exponetially each day.

However, why risk that on 9/11. Why not just plant the plane in the white house? Everyone was evacuated, and I would think that would have had more shock value than the WTC, right?

Also, with your experience, do you think you could have performed what those hijackers did that day?



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71




Also, with your experience, do you think you could have performed what those hijackers did that day?



No. I couldn't have done it the first pass. I may have come close but you, and apparently everybody else, fail to realize what a difficult task that was IF you had no simulator time. First time at the controls of a Boeing 767? 500 mph at 800 feet? Nah. Aim at and crash into the WTC at 700 feet a second? Nah. Subdue 2 airline pilots in the cockpit? Nah. Take over the aircraft and navigate to New York? Nah. Not overshoot the turn at Colts Neck VOR? Nah. 2 Boeing 767's hitting 2 separate towers dead center? Double Nah. A Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon at 500 mph. Triple Nah.






posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Subdue 2 airline pilots in the cockpit? Nah. Take over the aircraft


I'm not a pilot, so assuming you are who you say you are, I'll take your word for most of the rest of it. Except to say this: how about all those stories from flying schools about suspicious types who wanted sim time learning to fly but not to land?

But subduing two pilots, who are strapped into their chairs? Easy.

Taking over an aircraft? Easy. How else do we end up in places like Mogadishu and Entebbe?

I will assume, given a certain amount of "public knowledge" evidence that pilots with guns pointed at them or knives held to their throats are told to do exactly as hijackers instruct and even if they aren't told this by their airline, common sense would say that, given previous evidence, this is the best way out of a hijacking.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV



But subduing two pilots, who are strapped into their chairs? Easy.


Easy? OK. Take me through it step by step. Remember they had no guns. They had box knives.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by esdad71




Also, with your experience, do you think you could have performed what those hijackers did that day?



No. I couldn't have done it the first pass. I may have come close but you, and apparently everybody else, fail to realize what a difficult task that was IF you had no simulator time. First time at the controls of a Boeing 767? 500 mph at 800 feet? Nah. Aim at and crash into the WTC at 700 feet a second? Nah. Subdue 2 airline pilots in the cockpit? Nah. Take over the aircraft and navigate to New York? Nah. Not overshoot the turn at Colts Neck VOR? Nah. 2 Boeing 767's hitting 2 separate towers dead center? Double Nah. A Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon at 500 mph. Triple Nah.





1. First time at the controls with sim time...it is in the 9/11 commision report. You can contact the flight schools listed, one is in Florida and the rest out west.

2. Have you ever seen the WTC up close, they were not tiny. They also hit in different floors.

3. Navigation is something that is learned, and the hijackers did. This again goes back to the training they had

4. They did not hit dead center, and the second was off center by a large margin.

5. have you ever met a killer, let alone one whose only mission it is to kill and accomplish a task? Killing the pilots was the least of thier worries, and it was a surprise, which makes the task simpler in terms of killing.

6. thank you for the honesty of your own skill, but they were close to. Maybe not dead center, but I would think that even the most green pilot, in a 767, could point, accelerate and hit the WTC as they were struck.

People see things differently, so I guess that is what is occuring here.To me it is not far fetched for this to happen. They trained to do this, it was not a "hey, I think I might try to take this plane and hit a building". When you have an objective, and a few years to coordinate your efforts, it is something that in the minds of many could have been accomplished.

Still want to know where those projectors were though, and where was the missle/UAV that hit the Pentagon launched from if it was not a hologram. Also, how could remote control be more stable than a pilot? Just curious.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV



But subduing two pilots, who are strapped into their chairs? Easy.


Easy? OK. Take me through it step by step. Remember they had no guns. They had box knives.



Yes, I know, I believe I said that.

Now, you tell me how you are going to disarm a man holding a blade to your throat while your are strapped into a chair. Now, assuming you have undone your flight restraints, tell me how you are going to get out of a chair that puts you up close and personal with the controls and disarm the man holding the blade to your throat.

Even if you hear the commotion outside the cockpit door and begin to get up, you are still at the disadvantage of height when the hijackers enter. They have the momentum and the reach you do not, you will very quickly find yourself pushed down and said knife will, once again, be held at your throat.

Even easier is for hijacker A to enter cockpit holding knife to stewardess B's throat and order the pilot out of his chair.

Tell me, do civilian flight and cabin crew sign "no hostage" clauses? These people are not policemen, soldiers or prison guards wearing the uniform of their State, state or city/county/shire/district. Are pilots expected to consign hostages to the slow and painful death of having their throats cut open while refusing to comply with orders?

On another note, that may seem a little "biased", I have noted that airline pilots tend to be gentlemen such as yourself; a little older, sahll we say. Hijackers tend to be young fanatics in considerably better shape and with far better combat training.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71



People see things differently, so I guess that is what is occuring here.To me it is not far fetched for this to happen.


Thanks for your thoughts esdad71. Lets agree to disagree. Thanks again.



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by esdad71




Also, with your experience, do you think you could have performed what those hijackers did that day?



No. I couldn't have done it the first pass. I may have come close but you, and apparently everybody else, fail to realize what a difficult task that was IF you had no simulator time. First time at the controls of a Boeing 767? 500 mph at 800 feet? Nah. Aim at and crash into the WTC at 700 feet a second? Nah. Subdue 2 airline pilots in the cockpit? Nah. Take over the aircraft and navigate to New York? Nah. Not overshoot the turn at Colts Neck VOR? Nah. 2 Boeing 767's hitting 2 separate towers dead center? Double Nah. A Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon at 500 mph. Triple Nah.







Thank you John! This is exactly why 9-11 could not have been done by "Arab Hijackers"

This has been my problem with the whole 9-11 story from the beginning. Noone ever talks about that. Everyone always says "its easy to fly a plane once its in the air"



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