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Why there were no planes at the WTC

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posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by WithoutEqual
Not only that, but as you ovbiously pointed out, he dosen't even have knowladge of things he should know. I just don't buy the fact that you can get all those certifications, and not know what appears to be a basic emergency hand signal. I sure hope he doesn't have any pilots licenses, if so, I'm moving my bed to my basement.


According to this he does not:
John Lear

Unless its in some fantasy land…

I will be happy to provide the answers to the questions I asked and the reasoning, once this hoaxer receives is just rewards for posting knowingly false information on this board..

OH by the way this:


Originally posted by defcon5
What does it mean if a ramp agent holds up his left hand with 1 finger held up and makes a fanning motion with the other?


Means your number 1 engine is on fire...
I guess that is easy to forget after all...
I have been off the ramp as a supervisor for 15 years I still recall these things. So saying he does not recall them because he is retired is CRAPOLLA pure and simple. I went back on the ramp in 2000 for a short time to fuel and I did not re-receive any re-training in any of this, it was SO ground into me from the first time I had been out there in the early 90’s…

I, unlike this guy, will be happy to meet with a third party authority from this site (like Gazrok who is local to me) to show my credential, pictures and so on, that I have left from my days on the ramp. I am quite proud of them. I will not of course post them online for fear of security issues.




posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 04:07 AM
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It has come to my understanding that John Lear’s fathers name is Bill Lear, so if I have discredited the real John Lear in any fashion I do apologize to him..

Wherever he may be…

Bill Lear
Bill Lear
John Lear



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by defcon5



I have asked these things in sincerity, why am I getting SA responses back? You REALLY cannot answer these can you?


No, I really can't. I can't remember any of that stuff especially the stuff about weight and balance and parts of a tire. That is if I knew it at all. And if I had actually been a captain, of which there may be some doubt, especially in my mind, I didn't have to know any of this stuff anyway. All I had to do was fasten my seat belt and bitch. Bitch about the pay, the meals, the FA's, maintenance, ATC, the Union (747 Teamsters Local), flight following, the weather and on and on and on.


From link

"John Lear, retired airline captain, with over 19,000 hours of flight-time, has flown in over 100 different types of planes in 60 different counties around the world.

Son of Lear Jet inventor, Bill Lear, John is the only pilot to hold every FAA airplane certificate, to include airplane transport rating, flight instructor, ground instructor, flight navigator, engineer, aircraft dispatcher, airframe powerplant mechanic, parachute rigger, and tower operator."

With the above qualifications, you are not able to recall simple things like how a wheel is made up, weight and balance or hand signals?


Sheesh - and i thought some of my aircraft maintenance apprentices had problems!




[edit on 4-10-2006 by dagebow]



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by Implosion



Has anyone actually come up with a good reason why holographic planes would be used? I mean, if you're going to demolish the WTC in broad daylight killing 2,602 people, and leaving another 24 listed as missing, then whats a couple of Boeing 767s?



Cheaper. Our government is not going to waste money when it doesn't have to.


Are you kidding about your government not wasting money?

1 Trillion dollars missing



[edit on 4-10-2006 by Fett Pinkus]



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by Fett Pinkus


Cheaper. Our government is not going to waste money when it doesn't have to.


Are you kidding about your government not wasting money?

1 Trillion dollars missing



Well the key words would be "when it doesn't have to". That "missing trillion" has a good reason that people shouldn't know about, obviously.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 05:37 AM
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Time is up and the bell has rung, its over man…



That does the Torsion Link on a B727 do?

Disconnects the hydraulic system from the steering so the aircraft can be towed. The system has a bypass lock pin that must be shown to the pilot, since some ramp agent (who I personally know), forgot to put the tourque (sp?) link pin back in after a push-back and almost caused a 727 to land with its nose gear turned sideways…

Easy to forget, right?


What color is Hydroic fluid?


It’s pink so it is easy for a pilot/engineer/1st officer to notice that it is leaking on a walk around. This is EXTREAMLY important since 90% of emergency landings are due to hydraulic failure.

I can see where this might slip your mind though…


Is a 2 inch deep slice in an aircraft tire, on the side that contacts the cement, warrant it being replaced?


No way for me to expaline this other then to say that I called maintenance out so many times to check tires that they got tired of it and told me not to call them unless it was more then 3 inches deep. Apparently, a tire has multiple layers of steel reinforced wires in it


Hey guys (now that they know who I am….
) sorry about interrupting your TV shows



What two pieces of ground equipment are required prior to departure on a DC-8?


An air-start unit and a ground-power unit. Why is this? Because a DC-8 has no Aux Power Unit to start its engines…

Again I can see where a pilot would forget the times he had to wait for the ground crew to do an air-start…


What are the major assemblies to a wheel assembly?


Tire, Hub, and Break assembly. All of which weigh WAY over the 210 lbs that this Mr lear has quoted, and are again often left in cargo bins to ballast aircraft.



What does it mean if a ramp agent puts his hand to his neck and motions across it in a slicing motion?


Again, it means something is about to be sucked into your prop or jet, “emergency Shut Down all engines” like right now!!

Again easy to forget that one!


What does it mean if a ramp agent holds up his left hand with 1 finger held up and makes a fanning motion with the other?


Again means your engine, the number that the agent holds up, is on fire.

I can of course see where this is EXTREAMLY easy to slip ones mind.



Name ONE US manufactured Widebody aircraft have to loaded and unloaded in a specific order, what is the order, and why?


Well the two are the DC-10 and the L-1011 (also the 727 If the airstairs are up). The reason is that they have a heavy rear engine, and if they are not loaded/unloaded correctly they do a tail stand. You unload these aircraft back to front and you load them front to back.

There are several pictures of these planes on airliners.net where this has happened.

And... Oh, yeah, I almost forgot…



What do you do on a commercial aircraft before adding or removing ground power? Not what switches do you hit or anything that specific, but rather there is one specific thing that a pilot should always do…


You turn on the battery to buffer electric surges so you do not spike the avionics, especially the gyroscope.

Again easy for a pilot to forget…



I am still game, and I can think up like 10K more questions if you wish to play “Final Jeopardy”…

So ATS'ers, sound off! What do you all think, should a pilot know SOME of these things? Anyone want to take a flight with this guy that claims to be a pilot?


Can we get someone like OTS (works for Boeing), or Intligirl (works for a DOD contractor) in here to check my math????

Just for validation?
Please??



[edit on 10/4/2006 by defcon5]



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 05:50 AM
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You have voted defcon5 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


Its about time someone really managed to catch "Johnlear" with his pants down


and as to this post from the admin if the only basis to verify "johnlear" was an ip


Other people coming here and posting ridiculous claims get banned rather quickly yet "johnlear" manages to getaway with a whole bunch of claims , saying because he knows they are true, then they are true and because noone can prove otherwise they just have to be true



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 06:03 AM
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Nice one Defcon5

Can also ask a question - if there were no planes at the WTC (which defies logic as well as all the records of the day and is an inherently silly idea) then what happened to the planes and the people on them?
Unless, I don't know, they were flown into the WTC, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania perhaps?



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by Darkmind
Nice one Defcon5

Can also ask a question - if there were no planes at the WTC (which defies logic as well as all the records of the day and is an inherently silly idea) then what happened to the planes and the people on them?
Unless, I don't know, they were flown into the WTC, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania perhaps?


According to John Lear, no planes hit the pentagon or pennsylvania either!!



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 06:43 AM
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i have respect for john lear he does not force you to agree with what he's saying, unlike what you guys are doing right now



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by selfless
i have respect for john lear he does not force you to agree with what he's saying, unlike what you guys are doing right now


What the heck are you talking about? Nobody if forcing anyone to agree.

We simply have so much overwhelming evidence that it wasn't a hologram, that it is just so insanly stupid to even think it was a hologram.

B.T.W. we aren't even certain it is the real John Lear or not.

IMO, the real John Lear would never say WTC impacts were a hologram. Only because I herd him say otherwise on live radio.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear
"Oh, and NYC is still a hologram, when you think you're visiting NYC you're actually part of a computer program, that's nowhere near the east coast."

is truer than you can imagine.


OK...

That about seals the deal for me.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 07:21 AM
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Make up your mind JOHN... is it a hologram or is it waht you said HERE:


J - This had to be accomplished by pilots who got instruction - were taken to 'honest-to-God' Boeing 757 simulators which is - you know - the 757 and 767 the same cockpit essentially and you get the same rating and whoever concocted this whole thing knew that on a particular day that airplanes themselves could be switched because of maintenance problems and by selecting airlines that had that airplane, they had everything covered.

A - Huh! So it actually took a fair amount of skill to plow into those buildings?

J - I would say that it took about 200 or 300 hours for each pilot - and we're talking about . . .

A - 200 or 300 hours? But you mean of simulator time?

J - Of simulator time! They had to learn how to step into the cockpit - and that's a whole thing - getting into the airplane, but that's separate from that - they had to get into the cockpit and pull the circuit breaker for the transponder - sit in the pilot seat, disconnect the auto-pilot from the flight management system - turn the airplane, push the throttles all the way forward, find Manhattan - then line up on a pre-planned course - doing 10 miles a minute - they were clocked by air traffic control doing 600 miles an hour at 700 feet above the ground and fly directly into the middle the center of the World Trade Center. Now that - you know and the air races only fly 400 miles an hour and that's difficult - but to fly an airliner like the size of a 757 at 700 feet - I mean that took some skill and that took a long time to train that - probably a year.

A - That's wild (unintelligible)

J - In addition to that - hitting the Trade Center was a feat - but hitting the Pentagon was even more of a feat because when you are going that fast there is a tremendous amount of air creating this lift and as you head towards the ground, that air reacts against the wing and pushes you up, so whoever - whoever hit that - trained to hit the Pentagon at the 3rd story was highly trained because when he came towards the ground - there was a tremendous amount of lift and you would have to trim forward and push with an incredible amount of strength to not be pushed up and over the Pentagon to hit the 3rd story.

A - But what about the plane that went down that didn't make it - that was probably headed towards the Whitehouse?

J - uh - Well that was shot down by an F-16 out of a base south of New York and uh . . .

A - How can you be so sure?

J - Well because there were parts found 5 miles away - uh - because there were eye-witnesses to it being shot down - uh - there is corroborating evidence somebody who was listening to a cell phone conversation at the time this was going on who said they heard the rapid - like the ... described it as a pilot rapidly turning pages - well - that's not what was happening - that was the cannon fire hitting the fuselage and that's what accounted for - what they called the 'smoke ' in the air in the cabin - well that wasn't smoke - that was the depressurization causing the condensation.


SO, JOHN...

1. Are the above words yours? (It's a trap johnny, I have the links)
2. Why have you pulled a complete 180 from pilots to holograms?
3. Why have you presented it all as FACT when you conflicting stories are obviously MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE?



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 07:23 AM
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Post withdrawn of my own volition.

It would seem that ATS is on the side of the truth, not hits, and it is not fair for me to question their motives as they have been completely fair in all of this. There is no point in me continuing to shoot fish in a barrel with a howitzer and I will leave my other posts to stand to show that point.

[edit on 10/4/2006 by defcon5]



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by Slap Nuts
SO, JOHN...

1. Are the above words yours? (It's a trap johnny, I have the links)
2. Why have you pulled a complete 180 from pilots to holograms?
3. Why have you presented it all as FACT when you conflicting stories are obviously MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE?


Like I just said in another thread, show me someone that hasn't had a change of opinion from the start in regards to 9/11, and you'll either be looking at an idiot, or someone enormously brilliant for having the whole crime figured out from the start.

I think we've all stated things a bit too firmly for ourselves, and even John has just said somewhere on here that the reason he doesn't do a book is because his opinions change.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
Like I just said in another thread, show me someone that hasn't had a change of opinion from the start in regards to 9/11, and you'll either be looking at an idiot, or someone enormously brilliant for having the whole crime figured out from the start.

I think we've all stated things a bit too firmly for ourselves, and even John has just said somewhere on here that the reason he doesn't do a book is because his opinions change.


And like I said in the other thread...

He states EVERYTHING as UNQUESTIONABLE FACT. Like he knows all thee secrets and his SOURCES need to remain under wraps.

He is not here saying "I think" or "It might have" like 99% of the rest of the posters. He says: "It was a hologram. You don't know ANYTHING about the military."

WTF?

He is busted presenting two different stories as "John Lear Fact".

Busted.

HOLOGRAMS OR PILOTS JOHN?

[edit on 4-10-2006 by Slap Nuts]



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11


Like I just said in another thread, show me someone that hasn't had a change of opinion from the start in regards to 9/11, and you'll either be looking at an idiot, or someone enormously brilliant for having the whole crime figured out from the start.

I think we've all stated things a bit too firmly for ourselves, and even John has just said somewhere on here that the reason he doesn't do a book is because his opinions change.


People's opinions do not change from "plausible" to "impossible". It is usually the other way around. In this case JL went from "knowing" about Flight 93 debris a few miles away from a crash site. To completely saying there is NO Flight 93 debris, even after we showed him quite a few pictures of it.

It's actually mind boggling to think someone like JL would change his mind about something like this.

Of course you can brush it off and say "he is just changing his mind". But in the true art of a conspiracy theorist, this isn't enough.

The conspiracy theorists like myself want to know.... is this the REAL JL? Or is it a FAKE JL, who can now get away with anything because he is known to "change his mind". You catch him in a conflicting story, and he gets away scott free, because everyone believes he is just truthfully changing his story?

That's just too easy... I got an idea.. Why don't I pose as Bob Lazar.. I will make my ATS name completely obvious, and call myself....

boblazar

I will even post a picture of bob lazar on my avatar to make it more believable. I will have google at the ready, just in case i need to answer questions. If someone catches me in a lie, or conflicting information, I will just say that I change my mind a lot.



At this point in time, the only way John can truly save himself, is if he takes a picture of himself holding up a piece of paper that says "I am real, ATS". If it is photo-shopped, I will know..



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 07:44 AM
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It looks as though John involvement is ending up in a repeat of this last involvement with us... many members doubting his identity because of the fantastic nature of his claims.

First, let me make one thing clear... crystal clear...

Truth and integrity are far more important than traffic and popularity. If we favored high traffic over ethics, there are a long list of policies and topics that would be very different on ATS... not to mention an increased involvement from administration. Our stance has always been, and always will be to operate under an exceptionally high standard of ethics to provide a professionally managed discussion board where nearly any topic can be freely exchanged. Under that management style comes the implicit "rule" that we prefer members to establish their own topics and sort out the credibility on their own. From time to time, staff will indeed become involved in topics, but more out of personal interest than editorial guidance.

I jumped in a few pages back because of my long-standing concern for the overall credibility of conspiracy theory speculation... not only here on ATS, but everywhere.

Also, because of our chosen area of topics, we're naturally need to find ways to embrace discussion of fantastic claims, far-out ideas, and improbable speculation... it's inherent in the vast majority of our topics. Thus far, our "secret sauce" has been our ability to do just that, balanced with healthy doses of critical thinking and decorum management.

That being said, because of confirmation of many historical events and chains of events, I firmly believe we are engaging the real John Lear who has spent time with Bob Lazar and others. However, just as I was during ATS member's previous encounters with John, I'm concerned for him. He is an engaging and kind person with whom I'm certain I'd enjoy a night of liquor and cigars. However, this is the second time his activity here has resulted in an escalation of fantastic claims that have inspired the ire and near ridicule of our members.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 07:49 AM
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I do not doubt he is who he claims to be.

I do INSIST he has been caught "changing his mind" on things he has TRUMPETED AS FACT.

This is unacceptable if he is going to be hearalded as some source of "inside info" or an "expert" in any field.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by Slap Nuts
he has been caught "changing his mind"

I've changed my mind on lots of things here on ATS... the Pentagon attack among them.



This is unacceptable if he is going to be hearalded as some source of "inside info" or an "expert" in any field.

I don't think anyone has ever expressed that he's a certified expert in anything other than aviation... and an interesting person who has had some encounters with other interesting people.




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