Secret Diebold Software Patch Resulted in Republican Victories

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I've always believed that voting never solved anything.

I agree.

Each man is morally responsible for his own actions.

I also do not vote to eliminate the potential for jury duty; as it is not for man to judge his brother, but rather the Lord.

My vote is choosing NOT to elect someone morally responsible for me; on election day I plant trees. I could not fathom how putting an x in one box or another is going to do anything more positive than digging a hole and watering in a Live Oak.

Originally posted by thelibra
If the majority of the registered voters went to the polls in each and every election,

then no amount of manipulation or fraud could get a falsely elected candidate into office except under two circumstances:

The nation was TRULY split enough to make it a very narrow margin, in which case, either party is going to be utterly convinced their side "really" won, regardless of whether or not vote fraud took place.

The vote fraud would be immediately noticable enough on a scale where the election results could be annulled as fraudulent.

I would like to add circumstance tres:

It is a two party system; both candidates are given an inordinate amount of media coverage above and beyond what any other non-Dem/Rep hopeful is given. The populous are sold on one or the other because they know that they really have no other choice; the better of two evils or a wasted vote on someone that not enough people know about. Then to make things worse, both candidates are fratbrothers in the same fraternity. The fraternity collectively owns the media, the banks, the emerging global military, commerce, industry, and the company that wrote the textbooks that taught you to believe in their two party system back in grammar school.

Who the hell do you think is out there voting? Martians? Shadow People? Reptillians? Bloody Hell!!!

By and large... Zombies

thelibra, I suggest you take a look at a book, Jacques Ellul. Propaganda: The Formation of Men’s Attitudes. New York 1973

The voice of the masses is largely the untruth.

Truth can only come to the physical plane when men do what is right in spirit; having faith that others will follow...

Waiting for the day that the populous chooses a righteous leader will leave you forever wanting. The masses have long since been brainwashed and sold.

On the subject of Diebold:

One of my tenents is a phd computer programmer for the government/military. He is convinced of the simplicity and probability of vote tampering on electronic voting machines. On the level of hearsay, he has associates that actually work with these Diebold machines who say that they are "designed to be easily tampered with by the powers that be". The code that these machines run on is kept secret from the public for national security reasons? Please. If it is supposed to benefit the people why is the source code secured AWAY FROM the people? Checks and balances?

The White House is an illusion. As is the presidency.

If you want something done right, do it yourself...

Don't try to elect someone to do it for you, or society will decend further into a pit of ignorance as to the issues of today; forever lost in a whirlwind of political slogans, plastic 'vote for me' signs, and bumper stickers.

Is voting on election day a more productive activity than creating flyers to enlighten others to VX in the Deleware, or DU ammunition, or the hazards of nuclear power, or making people aware of the oil slick in the Mediterranian, etc. ?

Is voting on election day a more productive activity than donating a day to pick up litter, or visit with the elderly at a nursing home?

Is voting on election day a more productive activity than planting 10 trees which will live on for potentially 100's of years?

I think not.

Righteous works; making an active, positive, creative difference is a far better way to benefit youself, your family, and society than casting votes and hoping someone else tells you and everyone else to do what they consider "right".

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by jsobecky
It's safe, it's trusted, and it works.

You mean like Microsoft products, and the Internet in general?

Is Microsoft the extent of your knowledge of Operating Systems and applications? If so, then I understand your confusion and distrust.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I disagree. The concept was, and is, a good one.

I really disagree with you here. The concept of not having a paper trail is a good one to you? Or no way of finding out what went wrong if something has? Not me.

Well, Griff, you just go back through everything that I posted and please point out to me where I said that a paper trail is not a good idea.

Go on, now. Go find it.

Give up yet? Good. Then don't say things that aren't true.

I wouldn't mind the machines so much if they actually left a trail should something go wrong. Funnily enough, right before the election, they passed a bill making it ok for these machines to not have a paper trail. Hmm....Republicans run Congress at the moment....wonder why they passed this bill?

I still don't see a conspiracy.

See above.

Give me the bill number. I'd like to look up who voted for it.

The states may have bought them bipartisanly, but who decided where each machine would go? Some politician somewhere had to decide this. And I believe in Ohio it was Blackwell...hmm...a republican.

Now you're really grasping at straws...

Space travel is safe? Let's ask the Apollo 13 crew how safe it was. How about the crew of the Space Shuttle...both that blew up in mid air. Safe...indeed.

I think you're referring to the Space Shuttle Challenger. It failed because of O-ring failure; it was too cold to launch, but they did it anyway.

Design failure compounded by human error.

So I'm still not convinced of any conspiracy.

Don't take this the wrong way please, but I feel unless Bush comes on TV and says "I did it" then you won't. There have already been at least 2 wistleblowers on these "patches" and you still don't believe....so there you go.

Don't take this wrong, but I feel that you're ready to accept any theory out there as long as demonizes Bush. At least I ask if it makes sense; you accept things at face value because it's what you want to believe.

See, that's the problem with many posters here. If somebody does not readily accept that Bush is the cause of every single problem in the world, then they must be a right-wing neo-con Christian fundamentalist Republican.

Don't let others do your thinking for you.

originally posted by Sri Oracle
On the subject of Diebold:

One of my tenents is a phd computer programmer for the government/military. He is convinced of the simplicity and probability of vote tampering on electronic voting machines. On the level of hearsay, he has associates that actually work with these Diebold machines who say that they are "designed to be easily tampered with by the powers that be". The code that these machines run on is kept secret from the public for national security reasons? Please. If it is supposed to benefit the people why is the source code secured AWAY FROM the people? Checks and balances?

Ask your tenent (sic) how many programs that you buy come complete with the source code.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Is Microsoft the extent of your knowledge of Operating Systems and applications? If so, then I understand your confusion and distrust.

I wish, because where that is the case, ignorance is bliss. The reality is, no operating system is perfectly secure, nor is any network perfectly secure. And any software designed and written by people can never be completely trusted. If the source code for these devices is not open and reviewable, it cannot be trusted.

Originally posted by Griff
[And I believe in Ohio it was Blackwell...hmm...a republican.

To clarify further: A republican who headed up the commitee to elect George W Bush in Ohio. A clear conflict of interest. Rings of Catherine Harris from Florida, don't it? Remember her?

Originally posted by jsobecky

originally posted by Sri Oracle
On the subject of Diebold:

One of my tenents is a phd computer programmer for the government/military. He is convinced of the simplicity and probability of vote tampering on electronic voting machines. On the level of hearsay, he has associates that actually work with these Diebold machines who say that they are "designed to be easily tampered with by the powers that be". The code that these machines run on is kept secret from the public for national security reasons? Please. If it is supposed to benefit the people why is the source code secured AWAY FROM the people? Checks and balances?

Ask your tenent (sic) how many programs that you buy come complete with the source code.

That's not the point (and I think you know it). The point is this is the most critical software we have employed to date in this country and there should be better checks and balances and much better oversight. Stay focused please.

If this is true...
and the voting machines used to cheat the election which resulted in GW Bush taking the presidency..


couldnt we just get a hold of the machines, and test them??

surely there'd be enough people in power positions who can put the money forward and organise the tekkies to investigate claims that the election was rigged.

I truely believe GORE won the presidency.

But the industrial/corporate concept of america, didnt want to have a pro'enviromentalist on the throne, who would gladly sacrifice industry/corprote profits to reduce emissions and attempt to repair the damage done to our enviroment.

Gore's views were well known, he'd been lobbying for years and years about fixing the enviroment.

The vote tampering had nothing to do with terrorism OR the middle east..

As soon as the bush admin fixed the vote and entered office, they became aware of a terrorist faction finishing preperations on an attack.
The US officials deliberated on this, and came to the conclusion that if the pulled htis attack off.. it would open the door to make LOTS and LOTS of money for the people in charge.

They'd make money in terms of military spending, in terms of oil fields and production and in the reconstruction contracts...
All they needed was a country who was lacking in strength, and world confidence....

Iraq was the perfect candidate.


Mankind created the devil, it is corporate industry.
This created concept, which is given all the laws and rights of MAN, eveantually grew to a stage where it could control who came into power...
They chose a dimwitt who'd listen to his peers, and follow his nose to the money.

Unfortunately THIS, was our biggest downfall.

Not looking twice when George BUSH cheated in the election.

Originally posted by MrPenny
I wish, because where that is the case, ignorance is bliss. The reality is, no operating system is perfectly secure, nor is any network perfectly secure. And any software designed and written by people can never be completely trusted. If the source code for these devices is not open and reviewable, it cannot be trusted.

The opposite is true. Put the source code out in the open and it will be hacked within an hour.

I don't know if you're implying that the programmers would deliberately sabotage the software. Are you?

Originally posted by deluded
That's not the point (and I think you know it). The point is this is the most critical software we have employed to date in this country and there should be better checks and balances and much better oversight. Stay focused please.

It's nowhere near "the most critical software we have employed to date in this country". Where did you get such a notion?

[edit on 3-10-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by jsobecky
The opposite is true. Put the source code out in the open and it will be hacked within an hour.

That's not quite the case with Open Source Software (OSS). Current LINUX operating systems are open source and very secure. The diverse community of developers would not only provide a more secure solution, but the inherent checks and balances would ensure no improper code would get in.

I don't know if you're implying that the programmers would deliberately sabotage the software. Are you?

Don't know about him... but I am. Maybe not the work-a-day developers, but certainly one or two senior software engineers under the direction of management.

You can read more about the problems and patches with the voting machines in this article. I found the outcome of the election the most interesting.

Six days prior to the election, a poll commissioned by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution showed Democrat Roy Barnes running 11 points ahead of Republican Purdue (51%-40%). The same poll had Democrat Max Cleland leading Republican Chambliss 49%-44%.

On Election Day in November 2002, Sonny Purdue took 51% of the vote (an 11-point swing) , and Chambliss won with 53% (a 9 point swing).

www.countthevote.org...

And this article shows what may have been at stake in the election.

Since the 1970’s, residents of Sandy Springs have waged a long running battle to incorporate their own city. They were repeatedly foiled by the Democrats, but when control of state government switched to the Republicans after the 2002 and 2004 election, the movement to create the city picked up steam.

The General Assembly approved creation of the city in 2005.

en.wikipedia.org...

The more I learn about the corruption in our politics and how open and dirty political parties take advantage of the people, I get very angry.

How can we try to fix things when the only democratic way is voting, but even that is fixed for agendas.

Then people still do not believe that our rights are corroded.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
That's not quite the case with Open Source Software (OSS). Current LINUX operating systems are open source and very secure. The diverse community of developers would not only provide a more secure solution, but the inherent checks and balances would ensure no improper code would get in.

OSS is a great idea founded upon a noble principle. You still won't see CitiBank or Fidelity allowing access to the source code for their software. You can't even get near their systems, unless you're an authorized employee or contractor.

Don't know about him... but I am. Maybe not the work-a-day developers, but certainly one or two senior software engineers under the direction of management.

At some point you have to have trust in your own employees. Remember that even though the CEO of Diebold was a Republican, the head of the Texas division that built the machines was a Democrat. Just the idea of co-ordinating collusion between all parties necessary to pull this off is mind boggling.

And the notion that a CEO would compromise his company to rig a few machines strains credulity. It's equivalent to saying the head of the AMA created a medical crisis in order to get a law passed absolving doctors of medical liability.

The final issue is that if these patches were applied on-site, without following secure, documented procedures, then who's to blame? I have an idea, and it isn't the tech doing the patch...

Originally posted by jsobecky
It's nowhere near "the most critical software we have employed to date in this country".

Where did you get such a notion?

[edit on 3-10-2006 by jsobecky]

I'd say it is.

If you're the President, you're the one who has the "Nuclear Power" card. You're the one who can apply to take the country to war. If you can control who gets into the office of President it is possible you could do the rest of Congress, etc. That worries me.

I myself, find it odd that only X machines would need a patch but Y machine would not. If they're built exactly the same, using the same softwear there's no real arguement as to why only some would need it. It's a very good find by Skeptic. Something which people really need to think long and hard about, especailly when trying to defend it.

If you're wrong, then everything over the last 4 years and maybe even before then should not have happened. Iraq? Is the most important example and the lives lost, the lives of American service men and women.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Well, Griff, you just go back through everything that I posted and please point out to me where I said that a paper trail is not a good idea.

Go on, now. Go find it.

Give up yet? Good. Then don't say things that aren't true.

Well then, what exactly WAS the good concept that you were referring to?

Give me the bill number. I'd like to look up who voted for it.

I suggest reading the articles posted about this debackle. It's in the Rolling Stones articles...The latest one I believe.

Now you're really grasping at straws...

Am I....since Blackwell is getting into trouble himself over some fishy dealings?

I think you're referring to the Space Shuttle Challenger. It failed because of O-ring failure; it was too cold to launch, but they did it anyway.

Design failure compounded by human error.

No, I'm talking about both. Challenger and Discovery (Ithink that's the one)...you know, the one that blew up on re-entry. Hmm...design failure you say? I thought space travel was safe......you said it if you want me to quote you.

Don't take this wrong, but I feel that you're ready to accept any theory out there as long as demonizes Bush. At least I ask if it makes sense; you accept things at face value because it's what you want to believe.

First, you don't know how I feel about Bush. I didn't like Clinton either and actually voted for Bush in 2000...so don't make assumptions please.

See, that's the problem with many posters here. If somebody does not readily accept that Bush is the cause of every single problem in the world, then they must be a right-wing neo-con Christian fundamentalist Republican.

Don't let others do your thinking for you.

Secondly, you have done exactly what you are criticizing me for. You have jumped the gun and labeled me a left-wing neo-communist Heathan Democrat. Which I am far from. BTW, I do my own thinking thank you very much.

Also, I get alot of my information from my boyfriend who works for Condoleeza (not directly but he works at the State Department)....and in a pretty major department of which I will not go into detail here....so, I believe that I pretty much get the straight scoop.....as long as he's able to talk about things. There are many times when he just stares at me without saying a word and by now I know that means he can't talk about it.

I really haven't followed this thread BUT I have to say I noticed a few posts at the beginning saying that it sounded like the Democrats were grasping at straws. That sounds like denial to me...considering that the CEO of Diebold is on record as saying at at a Republican fund raiser that he and his company were committed to making sure that the President was re-elected...and considering that Diebold is the major supplier of electronic voting machines, in my book that is grounds for a congressional inquiry and investigation by the Justice Dept. but then again both instituitions are in Bushes pocket so unless there really is a change next month, it is highly unlikely.

OK, our OWN GOVERNMENT declared that the election was stolen in 2004. John Conyers led his committee on an investigation of election fraud allegations. He subpoened Ken Blackwell, who as of this writing, I believe, he hasn't answered. The GEneral Accounting Office, a branch of governemnt, is the one that declared the election to be fraudulent. Google it and you will see the report of their investigation and the conclusion. John Conyers, a respected long-time Congressman of some 40 years led the investigation and turned over alll the evidence to the GAO, that's right, EVIDENCE, meaning they had some. Unfortunately, the GAO's report was not covered by the MSM. Surprise, surprise.

The other point I offer as proof is this: The Supreme Court declared GW Bush the winner. THat is patently unconstitutional, that's not how it is supposed to be done. And does anyone here find it a little fishy that the Florida election had so many problems that turned out in favor of Bush, with his brother being governor of Florida?

I think you are correct to say that their was wrong done during the election but it was wrong on both sides. Voting has been a issue for years and even since the last election many places that reported problems have done anything to improve it. If voting was done the correct way people could not vote more than once and you would not have people voting that do not belong in this country. My guess is that the last election had so much wrong doing by both parties that neither party could dare raise a flag.
As far as Florida goes and I only know what I saw on the news but I think that if they are that stupid they probably shouldn't be voting anyway.