Secret Diebold Software Patch Resulted in Republican Victories

Ouch Libra.

FYI I do vote. My reasoning is that the results are predeterminied by a select few, but on the way there the votes need to be counted by someone out of the loop. My hopes are that if the real numbers don't match the results, at least there is some minor record. Nevertheless, it's still all BS.

And before you start talking about me, and others like me, like you know me, you might actually want to get to know me. -

[edit on 2-10-2006 by Rasobasi420]

Originally posted by thelibra
WTF did you expect when you don't vote?!?!?

Just FYI, he never actually said that in his post. Nothing to me indicated that he didn't vote, moreof, that he just thought voting didn't matter, which is completely different. Considering that there is an electoral college anyway, I still vote, but I don't see it as counting as much.

Well, a lot of us knew in our guts that this was going down. We heard reports about it, and yeah, they were mostly "unconfirmed" to hopefully tone down those that want this to be "just the facts."

Point is, until there is an uproar, and people think about this and speculate, there may never be a confirmation. If no one gets upset, why in the world would you expect the powers that be to say anything one way or the other? If it is indeed happening, I assure you, they are in no rush to expose their crimes.

I am also making one other point, and it would be clear if those of you claiming "political bias" had listened to the last Skeptic Overview. SO did give a great knock at the "left wing" crowd that can act just as ridiculous. This is not being spun, imo, it's being discussed on a discussion board. If we just stuck to the known facts, and never pondered the unknown, we'd probably have 1000 threads and that would be all. IMO, that would seriously suck!

Sticking to the "known facts" fed to us by the mainstream, not ever pushing the envelope to look further, never questioning.. that is truly ignorant.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
the Republican party has a history of vote tampering anyway. I suppose the "innocent until proven guilty" thing applies, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a vote tampering republican official.

Your comment is most interesting Rasobasi. Yes, the Republican party has a history of vote tampering. What you neglected to add was that the Democratic party also has a similar past.

Both parties have had incidents of election fraud. Of course most of these were limited to elections in State and Municipal elections. Nonetheless, both parties have certainly had their share of rigging elections by using fraudulent ballots, tampering with the roster of eligible voters and even preventing eligible voters from registering. Fraud and criminal interference with elections is not the exclusive domain of one party.

Stealing a Presidential election, of course, is really quite a different matter. But, even this is not limited to Republicans. The 1960 Presidential Election between then, Vice President Richard M. Nixon and Senator John F. Kennedy certainly points this out.

At the time, Illinois was the "swing" state. That is, Illinois was vital in winning the electoral seats needed to win. In 1960, Illinois was, for all intents and purposes, controlled by the political machine of Chicago's Mayor Daly, a Democrat. Before and after that election, well-known (and, perhaps, well-founded) rumors circulated that Mayor Daly had made a deal with Kennedy.
In essence, the 1960 Presidential election was to be "stolen". Mayor Daly was to deliver the crucial state of Illinois to John Kennedy.

Personally, I don't want to get into a meaningless debate, to argue "tit for tat", that the Republicans "did this" and the Democrats did "that". Frankly, it's all the same to me. That's right, I am saying that it doesn't matter! Why? Because I have come to accept that any discernible differences between the Republicans and the Democrats have ceased to exist long ago. Both parties are essentially the same.

Both parties have been playing the American people for fools while they have been dividing and conquering -- distracting the attention of Americans from the real issues. While the Republicans have been blaming the Democrats and vice versa, meanwhile capturing the attention of the citizenry, they have been distracting the people from the real issues; unemployment, crime, education, health care, genuine national defense interests and standards of living. In the meanwhile, both parties seem to have been working, in actuality, towards the same goals, with the same results -- making corporations and industry richer, stronger and with greater influence and control throughout the world.

Yes, it really doesn't matter whether the Democrats or the Republicans steal an election from one or the other. It doesn't matter because there is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. For all intents and purposes, both political parties are the same!

In perhaps the greatest conspiracy facing America today, they have fooled the American people into thinking that they have a two party system. In the meantime, the "powers that be" do what "they" want while keeping Americans politically divided and their attentions rapt with a grand "game" of "tit for tat" while the "real" government does this or that....or whatever "they want".

[edit on 10/2/2006 by benevolent tyrant]

[edit on 10/2/2006 by benevolent tyrant]

[edit on 10/2/2006 by benevolent tyrant]

[edit on 10/2/2006 by benevolent tyrant]

Princeton University researchers have been working on this for quite some time..

You can see video about it here

And also here

The second link is testimoney from the software writer telling how it was used in the Presidential elections...

This is a farce, it's fraud and it undermines Americans right vote.. So much for speaking up and being a democracy for the people by the people.. This is a joke

Originally posted by Griff
Edit: Also, the Governer (I think) of Ohio is getting into trouble now over some things involving voter fraud.....I just can't find the article right now.

Edit2: OK..it's not the governor of Ohio (Bob Taft)...I'll figure out who it is here in a minute.

Governor Taft was charged with Ethics Violations in 2005, not voter fraud. I think you are referring to Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell and his role in the 2004 US Presidential Election Controversy. Blackwell is now running for governor on the Republican ticket, and if he wins we will see even more fireworks here in Ohio.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Ouch Libra.

FYI I do vote. My reasoning is that the results are predeterminied by a select few, but on the way there the votes need to be counted by someone out of the loop.

There will always be two major problems with voting that any democracy must strive to overcome.

Voter Apathy

Ignorant Voters

Errors (purposeful or not) in the Tally Count

That is not due to some grand conspiracy but rather plain old human error, and human error is not easily overcome without a long period of trial, error, correction, trial, error, recorrection, etc. It's not down to a perfect science yet, and I seriously down it will be within our lifetimes.

But the thought that the act itself is worthless, just because it isn't perfect, is absurd. Despite your disaffection with the U.S. political system, you have more say in who runs your government than in any other country on Earth. Every 2 years, a bloodless coup takes place in which 1/3 of the nation's political power base is either removed or reasserted as the legitimate trustees of the running of our government. And while we might not always like who's running things, we don't have to tolerate it for very long if, and only if, we vote, and enough people who feel the same way as we do, vote.

If you do not vote, you have single-handedly allowed "the bad guys" votes to become twice as powerful. Let's say, on a micro scale, there are only 3 registered voters in the whole world, of which you are one. Let's say you are of the Outer Party, another voter is of the Inner Party, and the final voter is of the Outer Party as well. Now, the inner party member is always going to vote, and they will always vote Inner Party, blindly. If you elect to abstain from voting, then you have put the entire running of the government at the mercy of the remaining two voters, and the entire responsibility of determining that running on the third and final voter, who may or may not show up to the polls either, for their own reasons. Even if they did vote, the result would still be 1-1.

When you fail to vote, you have automatically given the advantage to the people you least want in office.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
And before you start talking about me, and others like me, like you know me, you might actually want to get to know me.

While I am glad that you do, in fact, vote, it infuriates me when people continue to spread the ignorance that voting does not matter. Nothing else triggers my anger more thoroughly or quickly than this disempowering lie. You may feel slighted that your party (which is probably also mine) is not in office, but your vehemence and disgust are sorely misguided.

The problem is not that voting doesn't matter.

The problem is that it doesn't matter enough to people to vote.

Let's face it. The people you don't want in office have a power base. They have a consituency. They have a whole machine, literal and figurative, set up, with an agenda, and they REALLY want control of the government, as it is with all political parties. You need to understand that there are no saints in politics, and while the politicians you have to choose from may not be your first choice of human beings, they were the ones who cared enough to actively pursue the office to risk everything, including their lives, to attain it.

If voting had as much appeal as office, we might very well have saints in the white house.

Instead, voting has about as much hip appeal and respect as Rodney Dangerfield. And since the politicians are a DIRECT result of the vote, that's exactly the sort of government we end up with. Do you honestly think we could get, as The President, an illiterate drunk who can't even string a coherent sentence together, if everyone RESPECTED and VALUED their vote? No!
If Americans truly valued their vote, every candidate who wanted a ghost of a chance would have to be as good looking as Arnold Schwartzenegger, as charismatic a speaker as James Earl Jones, have the tactical warfare knowledge of General Patton, and the Financial acumen of Bill Gates. They would need the visionary talent of Nikola Tesla, the open-mindedness of Richard Feynman, and the wit of Winston Churchill.

Instead, we end up with quite possibly the worst administration since Andrew Jackson... and why? Because people like you convinced other people that their vote was worthless, and so they treated it exactly as expected. I don't have to know you any better than that. You said you put not value in your vote, and that is enough for me to lump you in with the true cause for the majority of our problems in the USA today.

Originally posted by grover
The CEO of Diebold infamously said during an 03 Republican fund rasier that he and his company were committed to delivering Ohio to Bush in 04....and so they did.

....and Joe Namath guaranteed a SuperBowl victory for Jets fans in 1969.

Corruption exists on both sides of the fence. Dem's are famous for delivering the votes of dead people.

Paper trails and voter ID cards would go a long way to lessening voter fraud.

Btw, there is still no proof that this patch existed, or if it did, that it was malicious.

Uhh there is proof Becky..
Found and demonstrated by Princeton University... This isnt some back water school.. it's PRINCETON.. and yes they prove that it works.. and does exsist.. and as I wrote above there is testimony from the software writer..

Once again here with Princeton

And here with the software here

So, youre going to say that's not proof? What do you want? them to come up and stamp "PROOF" across your forehead?

Originally posted by jsobecky
voter ID cards

And those would make sure the "right kind of people" are voting too... right?

Most of the ID proposals are pure crap... designed to keep lower income people form obtaining the right credentials to vote.

I'm all for an easy method to track voters... but firmly believe cards should be easily obtainable (and 100% free) the first time you go to vote without one. Simple.

there is still no proof that this patch existed, or if it did, that it was malicious.

There seems to be enough multi-source information about the "patch" and its surprising results.

I'm wide open for any alternative explanations (other than "malicious") as to why only regionally located machines would need patches.

Originally posted by thelibra
There will always be two major problems with voting that any democracy must strive to overcome.

Voter Apathy

Ignorant Voters

Errors (purposeful or not) in the Tally Count

Okay, I think that's actually three, but who's counting?

And once again I agree (tired of me yet?) but I could expand, with apologies in advance for diverging from the topic.

I'd include

Gerrymandering

Insufficient numbers of legislators.

Yes I said it. We don't have enough members in the House, at least. And maybe the Senate.

Think about it: when was the last time the numbers of legislators actually increased? The House has had 435 members since 1929. In the 1930 census, we had a population of a little over 123 million. The 2000 census was well over twice that figure. In a representative republic, this means each representative now "represents" more than twice the constituency they had in 1930. This dilutes the representation received by any individual and only serves to increase the power of the corporate interests. Gerrymandering only exacerbates the problem.

By not voting, this even further concentrates the power "they" have.

Electronic voting is garbage. Code is simple to break and tamper with. There are too many holes with electronic voting. In addition to setting up the code in the software to favor your party, changes can also occur upon sending in the votes or tallying them on an additonal server. There must be a paper trail, hole punched ballots for recounts.

Whatever happened to those 2 diabold voting machines they found by the road in one of the states? It may have been Georgia.

Of course there was no conviction because no charges were ever brought but it was nonetheless widely reported as being said, most notably by the Cincinatti times.

And for the CEO of the number one company making electronic voting machines, to have said that it was at the very least gouche and highly suspect.

by OX
Uhh there is proof Becky..
Found and demonstrated by Princeton University... This isnt some back water school.. it's PRINCETON.. and yes they prove that it works.. and does exsist.. and as I wrote above there is testimony from the software writer..

Once again here with Princeton

First of all, the userid is jsobecky.

All that article says is that vote rigging is possible. It has nothing to do with the patch that's being discussed.

And here with the software here

Same as above.

So, youre going to say that's not proof? What do you want? them to come up and stamp "PROOF" across your forehead?

Yes, it is not proof as applies to the patch being decribed.

Originally posted by jsobecky
voter ID cards

by SkepticOverlord

And those would make sure the "right kind of people" are voting too... right?

Right. The legally registered residents.

Most of the ID proposals are pure crap... designed to keep lower income people form obtaining the right credentials to vote.

Bull. They are not crap, and they are not "designed to keep lower income people form (sic) obtaining the right credentials to vote."

I'm all for an easy method to track voters... but firmly believe cards should be easily obtainable (and 100% free) the first time you go to vote without one. Simple.

They are free, and most states (such as GA) will actually deliver them to your doorstep. How much simpler can it be?

what do you do when you have to vote between a big giant douch and a turd sandwitch?


hehe, for those of you who knows where i took that from

Originally posted by shots
EXcuse me, no voter fraud was ever proven in a court of law. Therefore it is just an unproven allegation, unless of course you can furnish the conviction records???????

The interesting thing here is that we've had two elections now that were contentious and suspicious. The first mass voter fraud was in Florida (Remeber the chads) and then again in Ohio. What is strange about all of this is as long as your guy wins (even if he is hell-bent on ruining the constitution) then everyone's okay with it. No official investigations and even if there were they would be suspect because no one would allow an independant investigation to happen.

Some other "fair and balanced" eagle mentioned above that Kennedy seems to have done it way back when in what I can only assume is an allusion to "what's good for the goose is blah blah blah".

They aren't stealing elections, they're stealing your freedoms (no matter who's side you think you're on).

Originally posted by grover
Of course there was no conviction because no charges were ever brought but it was nonetheless widely reported as being said, most notably by the Cincinatti times.

First I admited it was well reported/suspect and that was not my point.

Why didn't they file any charges? My guess would because they had no proof or evidence to make a case, so my first point still stands, it was just allegations nothing more.

The more I think about this story the more it strikes me that it is designed to breed apathy - pure and simple. It was my first inclination to say "see, I knew my vote didn't count" and I'm sure that some less determined people would let it end there and not vote at all.

Someone mentioned above that this was going to be another very contentious election and they are right. If I were in charge I would want those apathetic people to make up thier minds now and bow out without a vote.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
the Republican party has a history of vote tampering anyway. I suppose the "innocent until proven guilty" thing applies, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a vote tampering republican official.

Never seen any real proof of this allegation. There is, however, a lot of evidence for democrats "voting the dead", voting illegal immigrants and other election scams.

Voter fraud is, and has always, been a part of the American scene. You want to pick and choose? While it's not good for us Americans, it goes both ways. Dead people used to vote in Chicago. It was the infamous Daley Democratic machine. The Dem's and the mob united to get Kennedy in. I 'm not picking on the Dem's, just showing the other side of the fraud game.

Originally posted by infinite8
Electronic voting is garbage. Code is simple to break and tamper with. There are too many holes with electronic voting.

You are not far for the truth, it was a shown on CNN how easily is to tamper with he memory card on the machines and only takes one small screwdriver an over the counter memory card and 4 minutes.

I was surprise at the way that those machines are built, anybody can tamper with them, anybody with enough knowledge.

In one instance the memory card was replace with one with a virus that was to change voters choices and only took one card and the election workers did the rest.

Without even knowing that it was a card already tampered with.

After seen what happen in only 4 minutes and one card . . . I realized that 2004 elections were very much stolen.