Originally posted by longbow
Russian weapons work? The nations equipped with russian weapons tended to loose their wars. You may say that in all those conflicts the countries using american equipment had better trained soldiers and such excuses,but you cannot state that russian weapons work, if it is not based on empirical evidence. I certainly don't think that russian weapons are crap, and US is superior in all aspects. I just think that since communism Russians have much bigger tradition than US to overrate their weapon systems, especially those "secret" ones that are not in service. Especially famous "plasma stealth" claims. Just beacuse they say something doesn't mean it's true.

The USSR scientists were very good indeed, and US scientific education has huge problems, I agree, but look at it from other side - those scientists working in US private companies EMIGRATED from USSR after Cold War and most of them are NO LONGER available for Russians, thats clear loss for them and US gain. That's together with lack of money is the reason why I think Russia is slowly loosing it's competitivnes even in this area. All their current weapon systems are upgraded Cold War designs and they have huge problems to come with something really new. You said russian economy is improving, but that doesn't mean it is powerfull. Certainly it is more stable than during Yeltsin, but I was in Russia and aside from Moscow it still looks like some 3rd world country. Situation is stabilized and Russia's pride was restored but this "stable" level is quite low.

And if you really think Hezbollah "won" because of ATGMs, well OK. It is easy to fire at tank if you're hiding behind civilians and you knows that enemy is not very keed to risk their lives in roder to get you.

Mr_albest the problems of capitalist/corporate system were very actual during communism in USSR era too. They too had problems with costs, resources, timeframe etc. Add to this much bigger problems wit beaurocracy and inflexibilty of planing system. And the results were in many cases obviuous too, just look at their submarines safety record for example.

But stop talking about it, this thread was about the threat of stealthy hypersonic missiles. I still think stealth is incompactible with high speed until some fundamental technologic breakthrough. Iskander there is no need to detect fast flying missile at 3000 km - it is over the horizon anyway, but I think it is extremely easy to detect it 400 km away and that's more than enough. And because it needs to fly high to have longer range it would be easy prey. SA missiles will be ALWAYS faster and more manuvrable, it is stupid to try to compete with the in speed. It only makes sense with antiship missiles. Also please note how big it is, I mean 12 meters long? That's not missile that's already small aircraft. I wonder how many of them could be really carried by bomber. That said I'd always prefer subsonic stealthy low cruisng missile like AGM 129. It has better chance to "come through", and what's more important you can carry 10 of them instead of one hypersonic missile - all with same range and payload. I certainly think 10 AGM 129 have better chance to destroy the target than 1 X-90.