Anti-Christ, end time prophesies, etc

Revelation ...

Written by an old man who may or may not have had dementia. An old man who was living in exile (stress) in a cave (stress) and most likely didn't have adequate nutrition or medical care (stress, stress). An old man who seen most of his closest friends, including his teacher, martyred (uber stress). An old man who himself had survived assassination attempts (stress) and who was living with the possibility that any day could be his last through assassination (stress).

Couple all that with his religious vigor and you get 'Revelations'.

Sorry. But I don't think Revelations are relevant to anything.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Revelation ...

Written by an old man who may or may not have had dementia. An old man who was living in exile (stress) in a cave (stress) and most likely didn't have adequate nutrition or medical care (stress, stress). An old man who seen most of his closest friends, including his teacher, martyred (uber stress). An old man who himself had survived assassination attempts (stress) and who was living with the possibility that any day could be his last through assassination (stress).

Couple all that with his religious vigor and you get 'Revelations'.

Sorry. But I don't think Revelations are relevant to anything.

Not all of the end times stuff is in Revelation. Matthew 24, Daniel, Ezekiel, I and II Thesaloninians, Hebrews, all have info relating to the end times.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
[

Okay....

I'm not going to argue with you.

Good because you would be wrong. Like I said Palestinians are nothing than Lebonese and other Arabs that were living in Jerusalem when it was renamed. Palestine by the Romans.

posted by Blackguard.
Huh? no such people? Where do the people who are from the area known as Palestine up until the late 19th century when the British Empire absorbed the area say that they are from?

What were the names of these Palestinian people prior to the renaming of Jerusalem? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

The Kurds were the Medes by the way. They were and still are a people.

[edit on 30-9-2006 by Sun Matrix]

You do know that "Jew" is not an ethnicity don't you? I would hope so. Being a "Jew" is the act of practicing Judaism. If you want to get into a discussion about ethnicity, there are only three racial identifiers,everything else is a derivative of those three races. The three races of the world are angloid,mongloid and negroid. All other so-called "races" are derivatives of those mentioned.

[edit on 1-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 1-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 1-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Sr Wing Commander
D Alen,

Ok, I think I see where your going. But a couple things I would like to clarify. I think you probably get the idea, but not all other posters may, and I think it is confusing the argument.

Thanks for your post, your definitions indeed are well defined and presented.
And you are correct with seeing how some of the terms such as evangelical are shifting to have a slightly different context then how it used to.

Perhaps if I can think of another "pointer" concerning palestenian jews I will post it, as it is nice to see when people are at least open to hearing other view points.

I appreciate your time and your contribution to this post, as with the other posters as well.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Revelation ...

Written by an old man who may or may not have had dementia. An old man who was living in exile (stress) in a cave (stress) and most likely didn't have adequate nutrition or medical care (stress, stress). An old man who seen most of his closest friends, including his teacher, martyred (uber stress). An old man who himself had survived assassination attempts (stress) and who was living with the possibility that any day could be his last through assassination (stress).

Couple all that with his religious vigor and you get 'Revelations'.

Sorry. But I don't think Revelations are relevant to anything.

i wager my soul you are wrong.
i wager all my money you are wrong.
i wager all my possessions you are wrong.
i wager my very existance you are wrong.

how sure am i you are wrong?
i know you are wrong.

666?

your first 6 loves, chosen 6 times before God or Truth, all beginning with the 6th letter of the "ALL FIB I BET" alphibet.

1) first love Fear, a byproduct of being "selfish before anything" aka the instinct of "Self Pre-Serve", aka "Self Before i Serve".

2) second love Food, as you needed it for cellular reproduction.

3) third love Family, as they nurished and protected you, and helped hide your fear from you.

4) fourth love Friends, as they gave you a sense of belonging and acceptance you desired.

5) fifth love Fornication, as you were curious about love, and "fornication" was the physical manifestation of it.

6) sixth love Finances, as your finances helped you get more of your second, third, fourth, fifth, and even more of your sixth love, and helped you hide from your fears.

6 loves, beginning with the 6th letter of the "all fib i bet", chosen by you 6 times before the 7th letter that is "G" for god.

6 6 6, yep.

still hiding from your fears i see, coward.

FlyersFan, What is the opposite of love?

are you sure?

how can you justify your hate without first being afraid of losing something you love?

you can only justify hating by first fearing loosing something you love, right?

and what is it you have chosen to love?

6 6 6

still believe there is no truth in revelations?

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

still hiding from your fears i see...(edit)

What is the opposite of love?

are you sure?

how can you justify your hate without first being afraid of losing something you love?

you can only justify hating by first fearing loosing something you love, right?

and what is it you have chosen to love?

6 6 6

still believe there is no truth in revelations?

You have an interesting writing style as of late esoteric teacher...this was interesting how you put it. It can be fun to play with words and ideas like a 1000 piece puzzle...albeit this way is with infinity.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Revelation ...

Written by an old man who may or may not have had dementia. Sorry. But I don't think Revelations are relevant to anything.

You know...it may be the case as you said...however no matter how demented he was...it seems clear that things are unfolding in a parculiar pattern around it. So maybe someone used it as a guide book for fun?

Peace

Dalen

I thought the number of the beast was 616

Whats the use in argueing about revelations if some people say its 666 when it could be 616 due to a translation mistake?

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
I thought the number of the beast was 616

Whats the use in argueing about revelations if some people say its 666 when it could be 616 due to a translation mistake?

We can all get bogged down in semantics, so to speak.
I think that poses part of the "problem" as to why so many of us get boggled down and never see the truth from where we are at, as is the case with a lot of "evangelical" Christians. (I am not using the term in the original context but in its more recent usage, sorry for the generalization.)

The point being eschatology is viewed differently and ferverently by those various Christian "factions" to which they typically do not try to see the words of Revelations in a broader picture.
A lot of this is because they are taught the words are the words of God. (not to mention the strange history of canonization and that it is not in the "original" language.) Yet beyond hope persist that somehow we have every detail. Problem is with revelation the trust is put into the teachings of the denomination along with how the rest of the Bible was interpreted.

Truth be known if I were to sit down and read literally some passeges by Jesus that I take for fact, they would say its only a metaphor. (When one is presented with information that is not familiar, its like a computer who has not been updated to the latestes software version it doesnt take.)

All of these words, which in themself are pointers, so to speak, are to basically say this.

We can analayze anything from the Bible to Tom Sawyer and get nice philisophical ideas.
The threroy of 666 even if wrong has some great ideas you can play with.
But I think its beyond words, so to speak.

Lets look at the general theme, to better understand the details.
Instead of trying to look at REvelation as a step by step guide (if we even have the correct and fully translated version), lets look at themes.

The theme Im exploring is the fact that a group of people (call them Jews or Antarticans, it doesnt matter), will be tortured by the so called anti-christ after breaking a peace agreement.

Well look at Gaza, what is happening there is insane.
And yes insanity can always be justified by logic...as paradoxial as that may sound.

So the antichrist comes and lables the Jew "palestenian", thats a good trick to make people not suspect him even so far as the "elect" could possibly be decieved by him.

The fact is and remains...evil does not jump out and say IM the devil in a red suit.
The irony here is most Christians know this, yet be careful lest you fall.

If your a Christian, does the life live up to that of the teacher, Jesus?
Compared to how he lived on earth? Or is it by the fact that he came as a gentle lamb, but now is coming back to terminate us all? See this is so subtle (well not the way I put it), but in the minds of those who follow, that it is easy, and understandable how one would believe in this theory without seeing other objection to this.
Now as a typical response, "Gods ways are not our ways"...but at some point, one can start to ask themselves why not to ask questions from the highest authority. Jesus own example challenged the authorites of his time, follow his to and question him.
If your Jesus is true, then by his own words he will not judge you...seek and you will find.
He did not say "seek here or there, but not over here". People have fear guide them in their choices, especially the well meaning followers of Christianity, I have seen and know many.

So when we look at the general scheme, this is pretty close...whats happening in Gaza.
The whole world has a blind eye and concentrates soley on the main news headlines.

Also, the idea that Christianity can take over politics, Jesus did not come to rule in this world...they are trying to set up a kingdom on earth...like those in Jesus time, the Pharisees.
So if Christians realize this, the politicians are no more than zionist (not jews) who want an earthly kingdom.

Know them by the fruit, and the fruit is kind of stinky.
However when you follow a system its easy to try to dismiss this, and that, until finally the end product does not even resemble what it first turned out to be.

Lies and deception are slow, and dont ever think that they cant happen to you, or you have already been sucked in. And if you have, dont feel ashamed, or done in...accept it.
Acceptance is a key fact to humility.

Now I dont know whether a man name Jesus even existed, but I will say that if he did, his teachings would line up this way.

Thanks for your patience and time reading through this.
I hope it has been of some use or at least fun to ponder for those who are Christians, and for those who are not, I hope you enjoyed to.

As to the original poster, this was directed at him, his comment was a spring board for what came out.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
still hiding from your fears i see, coward ... how can you justify your hate ...

So let me get this straight. You are insulting me and calling me a 'coward' because I do not believe that Revelation is worth anything? That's beyond silly. To look at the origins of Revelation isn't being a 'coward' .. it's being scholarly. It's having common sense. It's SMART. And I'm not the first person in history to do it. Many scholars and holy people waaaaaaaaaaaay back from the very beginnings of the bible did the same. And many of them found Revelations to be of no importance as well.

Oh .. and you are wrong about the 'hate' thing too. I don't hate Revelations. I just think it's a silly waste of time. It has nothing to do with salvation and it's origins are seriously in doubt.

and what is it you have chosen to love?

God. My family. My country. ... oh, and your 'love fornication' thing is off as well. I'm too old to care about that and haven't for a very long time.

still believe there is no truth in revelations?

Not a lick of truth. However, if for some reason it was to become apparent that there WAS truth in it .. I'd say fine, whatever.

So you see you are dead wrong. I don't hate and I'm not afraid. I just don't care about revelation because it doesn't matter. Salvation is found elsewhere in the bible and in places that have better origins then Revelation.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
i wager my soul you are wrong. i wager all my money you are wrong.
i wager all my possessions you are wrong. i wager my very existance you are wrong.

I'd like to say that I admire your faith in Revelations. But I can't. All that wagering ... not smart. You may be right that it's from God. But you could easily be wrong. And if that's the case .. you just lost your soul.

[edit on 10/2/2006 by FlyersFan]

The misunderstanding of Love is the misunderstanding of EVERYTHING...

Love is the acceptance of ALL Things.
Hate is Ignorance of Love...

Love accepts even Hate.
Hate cannot accept Love.
It is darkness.
Darkness cannot exist in Light.
Love is Light.

To Love all is to Bring or Find Light in All things.
One cannot change the Dark unless one accepts and understands the Dark.
One cannot change with Hate, only With Love.

One cannot mount two horses at once, and one cannot pull two bow-strings at once.
You either Hate, or you Love.
There can be no inbetween.
To have any darkness in you is complete darkness. Because Darkness cannot exist in Light.

This is all easy to understand in words and logic.. but to feel this, and understand this in action is another thing.

There is only the 3.
The Known
The UnKnown
and
The UnKnowAble.
and they filter thusly
UnKnowAble
becomes the
UnKnown
and the
UnKnown
eventually becomes the
Known.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruthYou do know that "Jew" is not an ethnicity don't you? I would hope so.

Being a "Jew" is the act of practicing Judaism. If you want to get into a discussion about ethnicity, there are only three racial identifiers,everything else is a derivative of those three races. The three races of the world are angloid,mongloid and negroid. All other so-called "races" are derivatives of those mentioned.

[edit on 1-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

What sources are you citing, SoT? I know that being a Jew is something that is very hard to define, and imo, is not even the act of practicing Judaism. There are, if I recall, atheist and agnostic Jews who consider themselves Jewish yet are not practicing as such. Judaism is something more than a religion, culture, ethnicity, lifestyle, or nationality. If you believe there are three races, I most certainly disagree with you. It is my strong feeling, and also my conclusion from studying race issues, historical racism, and current racist beliefs and misconceptions, that there is clearly only one race. There is no division line anywhere on the curve which covers all the variations of our genetic make up. We are one.
Also, I have never come across the term 'angloid'. Where did you get that term from? It implies an English origin, to me. I was taught the terms mongoloid 'not mongloid', negroid, australoid, and caucasoid. Later, I read that these terms were obsolete, and I agree. One race, one love, one heart....
If what you wrote above is true, then humanity has three original sources, which sounds unlikely to me. It is also contrary to both religious dogma 'ie. Adam and Eve', and genetic research, which suggests otherwise as well.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIIIWhat sources are you citing, SoT? I know that being a Jew is something that is very hard to define, and imo, is not even the act of practicing Judaism. There are, if I recall, atheist and agnostic Jews who consider themselves Jewish yet are not practicing as such. Judaism is something more than a religion, culture, ethnicity, lifestyle, or nationality.

The term Jew itself, is perhaps the conspiracy.
As is well pointed out by various posters, there are different definitions of what Jew is.

Some say by religion, some say by your mother (like you can prove this...usually she was a convert...so this rules out blood, this is back to religion)
Some say its religion and blood mixed toether.

Seems to me the zionist state is created around a bunch of falcities.
There are a group of religious Jews who say that the zionist should leave and allow the palestenians back in Israel and live at peace.

Now the issues of Jew is getting more ironed out.
You are Israeli by birth in the new Zionist land, and Jewish by religion.
So the two are separating.

All the world Jews will be so by religion and Israelis will be so by birth, naturalization, etc.

So thats that...time to reach past terminologies or we can go on hating one another for no reason. Again sucicide bombers, no one in their right mind would do such.
If so, then by logic all the palestenians would be dead as they would do a mass sucicide bombing.
No by contrast they are to smart and not brainwashed and scared to die.

Its a select few who are brainwashed to carry out these events, and the rest of the world who believes that all the palestenians are like this...so they can hate them as a whole.

Looks like the antichrist (lets call it zionism...not jews, not judaism, but pure out zionism which can include anyone including Christians) is at work here.

Anyway

Peace

Dalen

All the world Jews will be so by religion and Israelis will be so by birth, naturalization, etc.

So thats that...time to reach past terminologies or we can go on hating one another for no reason. Again sucicide bombers, no one in their right mind would do such.
If so, then by logic all the palestenians would be dead as they would do a mass sucicide bombing.
No by contrast they are to smart and not brainwashed and scared to die.

Its a select few who are brainwashed to carry out these events, and the rest of the world who believes that all the palestenians are like this...so they can hate them as a whole.

Looks like the antichrist (lets call it zionism...not jews, not judaism, but pure out zionism which can include anyone including Christians) is at work here.

Anyway

Peace

Dalen

I don't believe that every Jew outside Israel follows Judaeism, as I said. There are Jews who are not religious in any significant manner. It sounds like you know who the antichrist is, which I find hard to believe. Maybe I'm the antichrist, who knows? As for suicide bombers, I disagree there too. Do you see an ethical or intellectual difference between someone who pilots a B2 stealth bomber, bombs people and goes home without a scratch and someone who does a suicide bombing? I don't really see how one is killing enemies more sanely.
It almost seems more noble to sacrifice your life for your cause, than to sneak in and do your damage, then sneak out unharmed.
Jews, Muslims, Christians... all Abramic... all fighting.... sigh.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I don't believe that every Jew outside Israel follows Judaeism, as I said.

As for suicide bombers, I disagree there too. Do you see an ethical or intellectual difference between someone who pilots a B2 stealth bomber, bombs people and goes home without a scratch and someone who does a suicide bombing? I don't really see how one is killing enemies more sanely.

Totally true BlackGuard. You are right, in the somewhat classical term of Jew, yes there are Jews that dont follow Judaism. But in the strictist sense, the term has never really been all that forthright.
(At least the way I have seen it, of course those arguing a point of view from a rabbincal stance, etc. would disagree.)
Thats neither here nor there.

I also agree that it is insane to kill anyone in any form...perhaps I should have stated at what points of human consciousness (or unconsciousness) that people are willing to carry out various levels and types of atrocities. You bring a point that for a small group of individuals, who have been totally indoctrinated into a certain belief system, that they can and are willing to do radical damage to both themselves and others. My point is that to generalize the Gaza population as such, I think is a stretch by far, and the few that carry out the atrocities give "permission" for the collective punishment against the people.

Peace

Dalen

by the way, interesting quote you have as your signature...it is thought provoking as to why such as clause about contacting aliens would be in there...Im sure someone could easily explain it away, but it does give some point(s) to ponder.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by dAlen]

That last post sounds much more agreeable to me, for what thats worth. I feel for any oppressed, and/or displaced peoples like the Kurds, Palestinians, etc. They have gotten a bad deal, and the results of their mistreatment are still playing out. The resolutions appear far away as yet. I found that first post accusatory, but you have done well to clarify your thoughts. Thank you.

I think that those call them salves the illuminated ones have hi jacked all three of the major religions. Like the corruption of our governments these morally obtuse people have embedded themselves at high levels in Roman chalolic church and rabbinic orders. perhaps ,Im not too versed in this whole religious thing .

[edit on C:Sunocu10e10 by Opus]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix Let's just talk about truth, we can leave religion totally out of this as I have no use for religion.

The truth is that Palestinians are Philistines, they are not Arabs. The people that are now called Palestinians are Arabs that were displaced in a war against Israel.

The whole thing is a crock and if you knew the facts, you would understand this.

I have no problem discussing things without looking through the so called religious lens. I suggest you try the lens of facts and truth.

Research this and see if it is not so.

But didn't you say that there was no such thing as Palestinians? Now you say they are Philistines. Which is it? Also, I asked you some questions in a reply to you above, which you ignored. I did do some research, as you suggested, and posted my findings, which counter your claims. You do not appear to have your lens of facts and truth with you, and your tone suggests that you do have a problem with it. Terms such as 'FAT CHANCE', and 'the whole thing is a crock' do not sound like you have no problem with it, to me. I have read what you call 'facts' and found that I don't agree they are facts. Reread my above reply to you, if you wish, and maybe even answer some of my points which contradict your attestations. From my viewpoint it is not him but you that doesn't seem to understand.

You know its funny how someone thinks that Revelation isn't inspired writing, considering most of the bible verses in Revelation can be found elsewhere in the bible.

I have to ask, if Isaac Newton, arguably the greatest scientist to live and will ever live spent hundreds of hours studying prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, what makes you think some guy in this forum say that John was "stressed" out.

I think the only people who have said Revelations is uninspired is the Vatican, considering Revelations talks largely about them beecause their the antichrist, at least thats what i believe, and so did the Protestant Reformers. Of course it would be smart for the Vatican to discredit revelation, so it won't incriminate them so badly.

Then again, like voters who vote the party line, church members must believe in their church, no matter what.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Originally posted by Sun Matrix Let's just talk about truth, we can leave religion totally out of this as I have no use for religion.

The truth is that Palestinians are Philistines, they are not Arabs. The people that are now called Palestinians are Arabs that were displaced in a war against Israel.

The whole thing is a crock and if you knew the facts, you would understand this.

I have no problem discussing things without looking through the so called religious lens. I suggest you try the lens of facts and truth.

Research this and see if it is not so.

But didn't you say that there was no such thing as Palestinians? Now you say they are Philistines. Which is it? Also, I asked you some questions in a reply to you above, which you ignored. I did do some research, as you suggested, and posted my findings, which counter your claims. You do not appear to have your lens of facts and truth with you, and your tone suggests that you do have a problem with it. Terms such as 'FAT CHANCE', and 'the whole thing is a crock' do not sound like you have no problem with it, to me. I have read what you call 'facts' and found that I don't agree they are facts. Reread my above reply to you, if you wish, and maybe even answer some of my points which contradict your attestations. From my viewpoint it is not him but you that doesn't seem to understand.

Yes, I remember you. Are you still having trouble locating these non existant Palestinian Arabs? The Phillistines were not of Arab linage.

Can you not yet understand that Yasser Arrafat was an Egyptian even though he was the head of the supposed Palestinian people.

The facts speak for themselves. You are free to believe the crock fed to you if you wish.