looking for America's Punishment?

It seems these days everyone around the globe is hold ing there breath waiting to see who will deal the next blow to America. And while Im certain that it ill eventually come, it remains to be seen whether it will be by some crapy terrorist organization or some severe natural disaster. But dont think for even a second that just because this will occur that it means that some how Gos is on the side of Americas enemies or wants to cause America harm. God is not on their side, nor is he on our side!

God will use whatever and whom ever He wishes to correct a nation up until it is beyond redemption. It is at that point that His judgemnt will fall and fall hard. 911 was a smack not a final blow, but no one listened. Katrina was a smack but noone listened. our severe weather is a smack but none is listening. We simply wait out the storms and trials hopeing for a return to normality. And when it comes we say,"glad thats over lets get back to what we were doing." the very things that are bringing these hard ships to America.

We take for granted the gifts we have in this nation, our freedoms, our food, our fine homes and cars, etc. We mistake the patience of God for His approval and blessing. Time is running out in this country and noone is listening.

And now for the rest of the world do not think that when you see the smoke of America'a punishment rising over your horizens that it means God is on your side. It simply means that he will now turn his attention to dealing with your sins. You too will neither listen!!

Murder is committed everyday all around the world! rape and incest are commited every where around the world every single day in your "secret" places, and in the churches, temples and mosques. Do you think that God does not see this? do you think that you are exhonerated by your mere association with some Man made religion? you extort, abuse, and discard your fellow man and the children God gave to you for your gain. Do you think that God will not hold you accountable for this? You force women and youg girls into your beds for your pleasure and then trow them away like dirty rags. do you think that God will not repay you for your abuse.

Judgement is coming to America, no doubt; but it is also coming to the entire world!!!And the birth pains are all around us you arrogant pieces of dust!

Although you make interesting points, I think we forget that not everyone in America wants war and is after killing the environment. It seems that this is putting a mass blanket on America and the world saying that everyone is after eachother and that the idea of love has been lost. I think we need to look towards the day of change or the moments of change when love begins to reign and peace begins to spread, rather than waiting for us to destroy ourselves. I would like to think that there is still hope for mankind.

Originally posted by granoladude
Although you make interesting points, I think we forget that not everyone in America wants war and is after killing the environment. It seems that this is putting a mass blanket on America and the world saying that everyone is after eachother and that the idea of love has been lost.

And what you mentioned is but a drop in the bucket.
So many of God's laws have been completely thrown out the door in America.
We have legalized killing (abortion).
We have complete acceptance of sexual fornication (sex before marriage....what ever happend to marrying a virgin? It use to be a honeymoon was when a man got "to know" his wife, and now a honeymoon is nothing more than an extravagent vacation)
We have accepted homosexuality (condemned by God and completely accepted by our media...Will & Grace, Queer Eye For The Straight Guy) anyone?).
We threw prayer out of the schools.
We bitch about the Ten Commandments being in Federal buildings or courthouses.
We ostracize, satire, mock His only son (remember the way the media responded to The Passion of Christ? and then South Park and their version.....)
More children are born nowadays out of wedlock then ever in America's history...
There is a huge tide of anti-Christian sentiment gaining momentum in America...
Religious holidays are being publicly stripped of their expression (in the secular world it's no longer Merry Christmas; it's Happy Holidays......)

And Graystar, you're right, we keep getting smacked and no one is lsitening.....we just go back to what we're doing.

We have become this mass consumer society that believes "things" or "creatures" (meaning anything physical in this world) will make us happy. We tend to think "if my life was only like this I'd be happy"; "if only I had a bigger house, another car, more money, a better paying job, a better stereo, that "thing" I've always wanted....then I'd be happy". But what we find is when we attain this physical thing, after awhile we want something else. Never content with what we have. What we don't realize is that nothing in this physical world will ever make us truly happy, because when all is said and done we are really not about the flesh. We are about the spirit. We are of God.

And this life is but the blink of an eye....in preparation for the next, which is eternal......good or bad; our choice. Many are choosing the bad and will eventually find out when it's too late. Remember, God is merciful and will bestow His grace and forgiveness upon you while you are "here"; He will forgive anything as long as you ask for forgiveness (penance). But immediately upon your death He is no longer the God of mercy, He is the God of Justice...he will no longer have pity on you. Ignore Him now, mock Him now, deny Him now....but you'll never escape Him, not even by death. Eventually "you will" have to deal with Him.

Matthew 7:
13 "Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.
14 How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it."

[edit on 30-9-2006 by mirror2U]

I agree that American popular culture is crass and that secular humanism has become the order of the day, but has there been a time when America did not face hardship and disaster?

Muslim terrorists are bummed out about the kinds of things our media churns out and that is part of the reason that they want to destroy us, but are they the first?

Hurricanes are conveniently described as acts of God by insurance companies, but was Katrina the first? Hardly.

Were people more God-fearing in 1900? Was prayer allowed in schools? What about the the Storm of 1900? What was God thinking then?

What about Pearl Harbor?

I am fond of this explanation of the presumed punishment of God.

THE PURPOSE OF AFFLICTION

"But, my son, you should know that the Father does not purposely afflict his children. Man brings down upon himself unnecessary affliction as a result of his persistent refusal to walk in the better ways of the divine will. Affliction is potential in evil, but much of it has been produced by sin and iniquity. Many unusual events have transpired on this world, and it is not strange that all thinking men should be perplexed by the scenes of suffering and affliction which they witness. But of one thing you may be sure: The Father does not send affliction as an arbitrary punishment for wrongdoing. The imperfections and handicaps of evil are inherent; the penalties of sin are inevitable; the destroying consequences of iniquity are inexorable. Man should not blame God for those afflictions which are the natural result of the life which he chooses to live; neither should man complain of those experiences which are a part of life as it is lived on this world. It is the Father's will that mortal man should work persistently and consistently toward the betterment of his estate on earth. Intelligent application would enable man to overcome much of his earthly misery.

THE MISUNDERSTANDING OF SUFFERING

"Although transgression of divine law is sooner or later followed by the harvest of punishment, while men certainly eventually do reap what they sow, still you should know that human suffering is not always a punishment for antecedent sin.

[edit on 2006/10/1 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Graystar

Judgment is coming to America, no doubt; but it is also coming to the entire world!!!And the birth pains are all around us you arrogant pieces of dust!

Just one question . . . is this your version of doomsday prophecy?

Because if is, it belongs on religious conspiracy.

I fail to see the conspiracy in this thinly veiled religious rant.

Originally posted by Chris McGee
I fail to see the conspiracy in this thinly veiled religious rant.

Originally posted by marg6043
Just one question . . . is this your version of doomsday prophecy?

Because if is, it belongs on religious conspiracy.

Once a post is posted, whether it is in the proper forum or not, it is beyond the control of anyone but moderators and admin.

I don't see what good it serves to have people commenting on the location of a thread. Either you have a contribution to the discussion or you don't.



[edit on 2006/10/1 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Once a post is posted, whether it is in the proper forum or not, it is beyond the control of any one but moderators and admin.

I don't see what good it serves to have people commenting on the location of a thread. Either you have a contribution to the discussion or you don't.

Very well Grady, my contribution is god does not exist so the point is moot.

Your 'contribution' to the thread was less than stellar in its relevance by the way.

Originally posted by Chris McGee
......my contribution is god does not exist so the point is moot.....

...way less stellar contribution.

Why God exists:
1.
The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today. (ex: the earth and the water on it that sustains us)
2.
The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it. ( A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information... did it come about just by chance? Was it merely biological causes, perfectly forming the right tissue, blood flow, neurons, structure? An astounding an organ that it is, it surpasses being functional. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, feel, move and relate. How does one explain the human brain?)
3.
"Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations. (natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.)
4.
To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God. (as science has progressed, no scientific discovery has countered the numerical likelihood of an intelligent mind being behind it all. The more science discovers about human life and the universe, the more complex and precisely designed we realize these to be. Rather than pointing away from God, evidence mounts further toward an intelligent source.)
5.
We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him. (the reason the topic of God weighs on your mind [you responded to this thread - got ya], was because God was pressing the issue. God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. You can't escape thinking about the possibility of God. One of the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.)
6.
Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us. (Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at Him. Though He talked about His Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in Him, believed in the Father. He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."

He exists.....you'll see.


[edit on 1-10-2006 by mirror2U]

Originally posted by mirror2U
Why God exists:

I can't rightly agree with most of your "proofs" of the existence of God, but your paragraph five does make some interesting points that are reflected in The Urantia Book.

For example:

TRUE RELIGION

Thus it may be seen that religious longings and spiritual urges are not of such a nature as would merely lead men to want to believe in God, but rather are they of such nature and power that men are profoundly impressed with the conviction that they ought to believe in God. The sense of evolutionary duty and the obligations consequent upon the illumination of revelation make such a profound impression upon man's moral nature that he finally reaches that position of mind and that attitude of soul where he concludes that he has no right not to believe in God. The higher and superphilosophic wisdom of such enlightened and disciplined individuals ultimately instructs them that to doubt God or distrust his goodness would be to prove untrue to the realest and deepest thing within the human mind and soul--the divine Adjuster.

THE REALITY OF GOD

The actuality of the existence of God is demonstrated in human experience by the indwelling of the divine presence, the spirit Monitor sent from Paradise to live in the mortal mind of man and there to assist in evolving the immortal soul of eternal survival. The presence of this divine Adjuster* in the human mind is disclosed by three experiential phenomena:

1. The intellectual capacity for knowing God--God-consciousness.

2. The spiritual urge to find God--God-seeking.

3. The personality craving to be like God--the wholehearted desire to do the Father's will.

The existence of God can never be proved by scientific experiment or by the pure reason of logical deduction. God can be realized only in the realms of human experience; nevertheless, the true concept of the reality of God is reasonable to logic, plausible to philosophy, essential to religion, and indispensable to any hope of personality survival.

Those who know God have experienced the fact of his presence; such God-knowing mortals hold in their personal experience the only positive proof of the existence of the living God which one human being can offer to another. The existence of God is utterly beyond all possibility of demonstration except for the contact between the God-consciousness of the human mind and the God-presence of the Thought Adjuster that indwells the mortal intellect and is bestowed upon man as the free gift of the Universal Father.

* ORIGIN AND NATURE OF THOUGHT ADJUSTERS
MISSION AND MINISTRY OF THOUGHT ADJUSTERS
RELATION OF ADJUSTERS TO UNIVERSE CREATURES
RELATION OF ADJUSTERS TO INDIVIDUAL MORTALS
THE ADJUSTER AND THE SOUL

[edit on 2006/10/1 by GradyPhilpott]

Ok first off you religous ones: I do NOT believe in god in any shape or form, nor does everyone in the world. You need to remember your opinion on the matters you named is just an opinion, Katrina to me is scientific FACT not gods will on earth. We screw with the enviornemnt, you get pinched at some point by it. Its cause and effect. I support abortion in most cases with this acception: prostitution. Since its illegal and is a #1 cause of STD's then those who have been convicted of prostitution (2 times) or declared themselves as such will be denighed abortions in all states. Other than that if you want one get one IF you can afford it considering people are extremely poor anymore.
Everything you want turned illegal is based 100% on RELIGION, remember this: DIVISION OF CHURCH AND STATE! It was made for a REASON, its so people wont go on crusades and commit murder in the name of religion in this nation. Also you want to enforce your RELGIOUS based beliefs on other people who DO NOT SHARE THEM! My mind is my own, NOT YOURS! And you have NO RIGHT to make something illegal because its something you alone believe in and is religious to boot. If you keep pushing to keep religion in govt. then you might as well move to Kuwait, Saudi Arbabia, or some other nation like that. THEN you will get what you want, other than that keep it to yourself.



HERE IS YOUR BIGGEST BIT OF ADVICE TO DATE:
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE SOMETHING TO NAME ONE ABORTION THEN DONT GET ONE!!
DO NOT FORCE YOUR RELIGION ON OTHERS OR YOU WILL BRING BACK THE DARK AGES AND BLOW THE WORLD UP AND MURDER BILLIONS!
If you think abortion is wrong because your religion says so, or something else thats a law, dont do it, avoid it. Why? Because you CAN, no one is going to FORCE you to get an abortion.

Want an example of what the world would look like if church and state were one? Go look at Spain during the Spanish Inquisition, yeah that was 100% religously based! And if you push such theories like you have then thats what you will get.

I get sick of people who make religious rants and want a nation turned upside down so they can have their way with religion, ugh, thats why this nation was founded in the first place, to prevent that from happening (church and state intertwined).

Originally posted by VekarI get sick of people who make religious rants and want a nation turned upside down so they can have their way with religion, ugh, thats why this nation was founded in the first place, to prevent that from happening (church and state intertwined).

And I get sick of people who make anti-religious rants and want a nation turned upside down so they can have their way............

We have legalized killing (abortion).
We have complete acceptance of sexual fornication (sex before marriage....what ever happend to marrying a virgin? It use to be a honeymoon was when a man got "to know" his wife, and now a honeymoon is nothing more than an extravagent vacation)
We have accepted homosexuality (condemned by God and completely accepted by our media...Will & Grace, Queer Eye For The Straight Guy) anyone?).
We threw prayer out of the schools.
We bitch about the Ten Commandments being in Federal buildings or courthouses.
We ostracize, satire, mock His only son (remember the way the media responded to The Passion of Christ? and then South Park and their version.....)
More children are born nowadays out of wedlock then ever in America's history...
There is a huge tide of anti-Christian sentiment gaining momentum in America...
Religious holidays are being publicly stripped of their expression (in the secular world it's no longer Merry Christmas; it's Happy Holidays......)

In opposition to you, I think that all this is good, seperate politic and religion, and let the people do what they want, to a certain extand, and forget the stupid teaching of an old fantasy book. Imposing ANY religion is very stupid.

[edit on 2-10-2006 by Vitchilo]

Well the ultimate punishment for everyone, you have to look no further than revelations.

Asteroid... plain and simple. It would be hell on earth for those unlucky enough to survive the inital strike.

Don't look to a man for dealing the death blow, look to the skies, thats what all the ancient ancestors were doing.

The doom is in the heavens.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
In opposition to you, I think that all this is good, seperate politic and religion, and let the people do what they want, to a certain extent, and forget the stupid teaching of an old fantasy book. Imposing ANY religion is very stupid.

...and what extent would that be?
I think you'd love Aleister Crowley.
He was a Black Magician, Occultists....Satanist. Take your pick.
His motto was "do what thou wilt".

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Imposing ANY religion is very stupid.

Save this line for God when you meet Him one day.
I'm sure He'll find it amusing.......not.


[edit on 2-10-2006 by mirror2U]

Originally posted by CAPT PROTON
Well the ultimate punishment for everyone, you have to look no further than revelations.
Asteroid... plain and simple. It would be hell on earth for those unlucky enough to survive the inital strike. The doom is in the heavens.

You got it! It's all in the New Testament, but unfortunately many around here think it's a bunch of bunk. Everybody wigs out on this website about "end times", "2012", "nuclear holocaust", "feeling the vibe something bad is coming", "asteroids hitting earth", "solar flares", "earthquakes", "tsunamis". We're all so eager to read and hear what the world is saying about this stuff....and hey, you want know how it's gonna end? Open the NT and read. It's all there. The question is when? Only God knows. Are we in the Tribulation? No way, when that happens we'll all be down on our knees begging God to make it stop.....even the clowns around here who mock Him. But, I do believe we are witnessing "the birth pangs", which Jesus said would surely be a sign. A new world is coming, but its labor and birth are going to be extremely traumatic, for the earth, and everyone on it.

"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken."
Tribulation = Asteroid Impact(s)

[edit on 2-10-2006 by mirror2U]

Save this line for God when you meet Him one day.
I'm sure He'll find it amusing.......not.

Good advise! Thanks for the tip!
If I remember in 70 years when I'll die, i'll try!

This is the same problem we are having with muslims...and this is why christians are being dispised..... (if you dont consider it part of christ's prophecy

We are making mistakes as christians, we are a religion of peace and we should be understanding.....

God's children are being turned away from the church for being homosexual : "what you do to the lesser of my brethren you do to me"

Whereas I cannot avoid a moral conflict with abortion.....I dont think God is without understanding of the complexities of this issue.

I dont think hardliner christians really take into accoutn that all of the earth is God's creation...he Understands how it was created....He understands all of us intimately and more than that he loves us.

Remember when Jesus was asked if there was one way to sum up God's commandments and laws he said "love thy neighbor"

Jesus's main message was love..... love and more specifically God's love and our limited understanding combined can bring about a peace that is truly divine.


Love thy neighbor...dont condemn and be judgemental... in thye end....God will make the judgement calls....not us.

Have faith.....true faith and live the best way you can in all things and you will show through your actions the true measure of the Lord.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Remember when Jesus was asked if there was one way to sum up God's commandments and laws he said "love thy neighbor"
Love thy neighbor...dont condemn and be judgemental... in thye end....God will make the judgement calls....not us.

When Jesus said, "love thy neighbor as thyself" He meant love in a "brotherly" way, not a "I'm a horny guy, it's only human nature, let's get down......." or "I'm gay I need a sexual outlet". He meant love of the spirit, not love of the flesh (that is lust, not love). We as Christians are not allowed to judge others salvation, but based on what we know from the NT we are allowed to let others know when they are doing wrong (i.e. breaking the laws of God laid down in the Bible). Guilt is a powerful tool, it makes people look within themselves and become aware of the wrong they do. Guilt leads to remorse, and remorse leads to penance (asking God to forgive the wrong you have done). And penance brings people closer to God (and leads them to virtue).

perhaps what your describing is generational punishment. Remember Sodom was punished in its Generation unlike any before it! What about in noahs time witht he Great flood- if you choose to believe it.

Of course we could look at it in this way God's punishment is directly proportonal to our sin. It is i believe these great disaters which God allows in order to keep sin in check in its time. The problemwith this Generation is as I see it is that we have become so calused and dull even to the point of being unable to blush at "sin," that no matter how much punish ment we receive we will not turn back. I do believe we have crossed that threshold in this country. How else can you explain the recent scandal in the GOP with Mark Foley. Is he sorry? Yah he's sorry that he got caught!

So what happens when we cross this Threshold? I believe that God no longer rebukes that nation, that He no longer corrects that nation. I believe he hands it over to its own sin and allows it to self destruct. And out of that dust God will call the few who have remained pure before him.

I further believe God hands over the fate of that nation to the "limited powers" of Satan. God puts that nation with in the chain links of Satan's reach if you will and just allows sin to take its course.

Do you think that these shootings around the country in our schools are just random acts of violence?

what do you think will happen when Gay marriage is accepted as normal, that will all live happily ever after? not hardly! It is God who protects this nation and every nation on the face of this planet from the destroyer. It is the responsiblity of those nations to stay there. When we choose to leave that protection What shall God say! it was our choice to leave.

compared to 2007 and beyond, katrina will lok like a fart bubble in a glass. You will live to see America cut in half by earth quakes so huge that you will stop breathing. Waves will cover our precious shores that will make the summatra tsunami look like a bump. this will come and its our own fault!