E-Mails Force Rep. Mark Foley R-Fla. to Resign

dj

I am not in anyway saying a crime would be committed by a 16 year old having sex.. NOT AT ALL

It is the postulation that the ability to give birth, or simply have sex, equates to adulthood.

Also, legalities aside, how about common decency?

We create public programs that support and protect our children, then we advocate the sexual exploitation of them at the same time. So why not just give NAMBLA free reign? Or how about using the ability to speak as an indicator of the Age of Consent?

As stupid as that sounds, equally as stupid was assuming a 16 year old was able to make adult decisions about sex 50 years ago. So is this where we are headed?

There are 16 yo's having sex and producing progeny everyday, and most we wind up supporting. Because of that very lack of maturity that some wish to place on them.

Simply disgusting.

Semper

What I posted was simply the actual definition.

Well I don't think it's the actual defenition - I've always seen the defenition of "assault rifle" include select fire. Wikipedia agrees.

As far as my other points go, don't misunderstand me. I don't think 12 year olds ought to be seen as sex symbols, or 16 year olds for that matter. I think adults that specifically seek out sexual relationships with teens ought to seek help.

But, on the other hand, I don't think every such case is a simple matter of victim/perpetrator. A lot of my thinking on the matter has been shaped by being the subject of a teen's crush a while back, and the subsequent problems I faced with this person after I made it clear I couldn't date anyone who was still in high school without feeling like a total dirtbag.

If I had been a little lonelier, or hadn't been close to this person's parents, or felt a reciprocal attraction, maybe I would have given in - would that make me a "predator"?

As far as NAMBLA goes, NAMBLA endorses legalizing sexual relationships with children, not just teens, something I don't agree with at all. Two entirely different things IMHO.

As far as the ACLU goes, they go to court on behalf of anyone whose legal rights are endangered, no matter how obnoxious the group might be. They've also defended Neo-Nazis and the KKK - I don't think that makes them pro-Nazi.

semperfortis,


I don't think we're as far away on this issue as you may think. I think what happened was disgusting since the young man was apparently not interested at all in having any type of sexual relationship with Foley and made that known to him, but I'm still not sure that's a criminal act.

I say sue Foley for all he's got!

Actually one thing I think is interesting in this case is that, as you point out, if the two had been having some consenting sexual relationship, it would have been completely legal according to DC law.

But under a bill Foley ironically co-sponsored, the type of conversation he was having online was probably illegal, if the law stands up in court. So he may be subject to criminal charges - under his own law

[edit on 10/1/06 by xmotex]

Foley on youtube..

Foley on YouTube

Could you provide some proof that the ACLU ever represented the KKK or any Neo-Nazi group? I have personally never heard that.

Semper

Ask and ye shall recieve

Right from the horse's mouth:

Acting on Behalf of KKK and its Opponents, MN ACLU Questions Delay in Rally Permit Applications

This is just one of many similar cases.

In 1977 they supported the right of a Neo-Nazi group to march in Skokie Illinois, in a case that ended up with 30,000 ACLU members leaving in protest, but their support for the First Amendment is pretty much absolute.

Not that I think the organization is perfect by any means - while their stand on the First Amendment is extremely courageous, their stance on the Second is downright gutless.

Thank you,

I have never seen that before.

Interesting..

Semper

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
With all that's been said, I think an important point has been avoided.

How hard is it to fake a thing like this?

Not hard...

With the advent of digital photography/video and, especially, electronic communications - we entered a golden age of fraud and blackmail. Even if you've done nothing wrong, piss off the wrong people and you could easily find yourself implicated in some horrendous crime. It's two for one if the blackmailers committed the crime, or their buddies did, it's back to the logic of net gain. They get off the hook and cause problems for their opponents at the same time - win/win.

Crimes involving children, throughout history, have proven to be the best at overcoming reason and inciting a lynch mob mentality. Just the other day a guy got beaten to death in his home because some girl claimed he molested her. He didn't.

I'm working under the assumption that the Rep. is guilty, but we have to consider just how easy it would be to make an innocent man appear guilty. It's something to think about...

Anyone who watches Hollywood movies knows how easy it is to create a convincing reality on a closed set. Apply that same entertainment movie magic to criminal endeavors, and you have a whole new kind of blackmail, one that doesn't require a compromised individual. As the old saying goes, if you can't find a door, make one.

Eh, no cigar. And that logic doesn't really go the distance on this one. This isnt just emails, it's voice-mail messages and more evidence. Add to that there are more witnesses. Foley is guilty, and these types of child predator scandals tend to fall on the G.O.P. side more often than usual. That is probably because of the sexual repression and guilt of not being heterosexual, and it creates a conflict which makes them have a grand self hatred for themselves.


You need to think a little bit more than just "emails" It's the evidence they have in the closet that made the G.O.P. scramble.

Not to mention Hassert has allegations as a gym teacher of inappropriate conduct with underage boys. This is something alot of people are forgetting. The checkered past of those who had acquaintances with Foley. And all it takes is a google click.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
semperfortis,


I don't think we're as far away on this issue as you may think. I think what happened was disgusting since the young man was apparently not interested at all in having any type of sexual relationship with Foley and made that known to him, but I'm still not sure that's a criminal act.

I say sue Foley for all he's got!

You clearly don't understand. It's not just one man who has come forward. This is a concentrated effort and thats why the G.O.P. house leadership scrambled because they know of his personal history with "multiple" Pages is damaging. The House leadership know he's not the only one because the Logcabin syndrome in the G.O.P. is high in numbers.

Let's be clear. It's not just one "AIDE" For anyone to reason or hem and haw themselves out of this because they may be G.O.P. tilted, that's sad. And I really hope that's not the case here.

Man-children hang in packs and they all carry the same curious peculiar patterns. The self hatred for having a attractability towards men of all ages in general. The repressed sexuality becomes twisted into depravity.

Dennis Hassert if you look into his past even has allegations as a gym teacher with inappropriate conduct. So that's why he scrambled fast to the Ethics Committee probably. Remember the shadows of perversity are dense in packs. Karl Rove anyone? He suffers from the same Man Child syndrome and it's easy to spot out. Just ask some guys who have been scouted by Karl.




They had Page auctions for Dinners for Godsakes. Dig Deeper and you find horrors you can't fathom.


THE D.N.C are the "Carebears" in comparison. And I don't know about you but the carebears aren't miserably failing at everything they touch. I want the carebears back. 2 billion a week to chase boogey men all over the globe ?Give me a break at the wackness. Most people who are so aggressive on this War on Terror would never get blood on their hands. All of those people who made the Project for the new American century doctrine should be forced to the Middle East to live out their "DREAM" on the frontlines. And then they can see "spreading democracy" up close and personal .

drudge has a little snipet up, a letter from foley...according to it, if it's legit, he's gone into rehab, he accepts that he's an alchoholic......

sure seems to be acting guilty to me!!

Originally posted by MRGERBIK
Dennis Hassert if you look into his past even has allegations as a gym teacher with inappropriate conduct. So that's why he scrambled fast to the Ethics Committee probably. Remember the shadows of perversity are dense in packs. Karl Rove anyone? He suffers from the same Man Child syndrome and it's easy to spot out. Just ask some guys who have been scouted by Karl.

They had Page auctions for Dinners for Godsakes. Dig Deeper and you find horrors you can't fathom.

Do you have a link for that?

I really find it hard to believe this was happening on just one side of the political spectrum. I would love to see a REAL investigation of the entire congressional page program. Like an anonymous survey of the pages for the past 10 years to see how many of them were exposed to what. I bet it would open a can of worms for more than just the Republicans. There is no way something to the extent of what you claim could have been kept under wraps unless both sides were turning a blind eye, and there's only one reason the other side would.

WARNING: Consumption Of Alcohol May Result In Pederasty

Originally posted by dawnstar
drudge has a little snipet up, a letter from foley...according to it, if it's legit, he's gone into rehab, he accepts that he's an alchoholic......

Of course.

It's an "alcohol problem".

For anyone catching up on this issue. Here's the blogger who started the ball rolling:

stopsexpredators.blogspot.com...

And Wonkette has the best rundown of it all.

The question that remains: Who sent the emails to Stop Sex Predators? Someone made sure this all broke as October began — someone way too smart and Machiavellian to be an actual employee of the Democratic Party.

I can't help wondering if the kids themselves didn't set him up for this. Sixteen year olds can be pretty sophisticated and devious, and know how to use the puter. If enough of them were creeped out and concocted to spring their own October Surprise...???



[edit on 2-10-2006 by psyopswatcher]

Originally posted by semperfortis
Come on NOW!!!

and they're probably conservatives.

I am a conservative and I feel the same way you do about this..

Semper

Semper, a lot of the kids who get Page jobs are following in daddy or mommy's political footsteps. Sons and daughters of Foley's collegues. It's an apprenticeship of sorts, and many are pushed into applying by networking parents looking to get a foot in the door.

Of course there are those who have their own ambitions at that tender age, but I still say the majority are pegged for those jobs. Nepotism at it's finest, so to speak.

Elaborating on my previous post, the ambitious ones may be ingenious enough to know how political blackmail works and saw this as an opportunity to make a mark AND get revenge in one fell swoop.

Yet, how can you possibly assign one psychological predetermination to any single "political" group?

Two birds of completely different feathers...

Semper

And the distancing begins...

Hastert: GOP leaders knew nothing of alleged sex IMs
POSTED: 3:37 p.m. EDT, October 2, 2006

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Monday that no one in the congressional Republican leadership knew of sexually explicit instant messages allegedly sent from former Florida Rep. Mark Foley to a former page until they were reported in the media on Friday.

"When they were released, Congressman Foley resigned. And I'm glad he did," Hastert said Monday. "If he had not, I would have demanded his expulsion from the House of Representatives."

Hastert called the instant messages "vile and repulsive." (Watch Hastert address the allegations against Foley)

source: cnn.com

So the GOP is going full force on trying to put as much distance between themselves and the disgraced Foley as they can.

Did they know before hand?.... they say no. what do you say?

For those of you who haven't read the IMs in question:

abcnews.go.com...

It gets pretty sick. I'm thinking it may violate the T&C against linking to pornography.

Between this and the whole "Conspiracy of Slence" thing, I'm convincedthat the US govt is just a front for a mass pedophelia ring.

I think I am going to go throw up now that I have read that....

That sick son of a bi**h... really needs to pay the piper on this one... and anyone who helped cover this up....

I just cannot believe how immoral our leadership is and they try to force it on us as if WE are the problem... We arent the ones trying to get solicitations from 16 yearold boys for crissakes.......

Take a good long look in the mirror DC... the beast you are after is yourselves!!!

Explais why he thought it was such a problem though that he had to push for stiffer laws.... he figured since I have a problem with it everyone must.... well think again you nasty jerk o**... you have the problem... and now you are going to face your own music...

What They Knew And When They Knew It

Originally posted by TONE23
Did they know before hand?.... they say no. what do you say?

I say I don't know, because I don't. However, I do find all of this to be rather fishy.

The Republican call for an FBI investigation is an interesting move, because it will put this and other such questions in the context of a criminal investigation.

The assumptions I've seen so far (my own included) hold that the Republican leadership knew how bad this was and wanted to bury it.

However, if what they've been saying today is true -- that they were not aware of the explicit material that has since been publicized -- then they may end up turning the tables on this scandal, though not in time for this election.

Whoever sat on this information and then publicly released it at the best political opportunity may themselves be guilty of a crime, and I imagine the FBI will look into that aspect of the case.

The timing of the disclosure -- right after the primary and before the general election -- couldn't have been more perfect to assure that the Democrats pick up Foley's seat.

Because of this apparently carefully-chosen timing, in order to vote for his Republican replacement, Florida voters will have to vote for Foley on the ballot, virtually assuring a Democrat victory in that contest.

Could this be part of a larger pattern of dirty tricks planned for this election season?

I smell a conspiracy.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Yet, how can you possibly assign one psychological predetermination to any single "political" group?

Two birds of completely different feathers...

Semper

Semper, the kid was paging for a Republican congressman from Louisiana. Is that conservative enough for you?

Like I said, the parents either had connections to shoe him in, or the kid is pursuing this career path on his own and earned his trip the old fashioned way. Sixteen yo's don't go to DC because they need the money.