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Do you believe in reincarnation (past life regression)

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posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 10:46 AM
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Just want to say that I will be getting back to the thoughts on Elijah the prophet. I understand that alot of people use this in the bible to say there is reincarnation... but that isn't what's going on there.

I'm swamped right now... but I am going to try to study it more --- enough to answer questions that might come up, and try to post something that will explain why that account was written, by who, what was going on at that time and what was really going on.

Be patent with me - I'm sorry it's taking me so long.




posted on Oct, 9 2006 @ 08:27 PM
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Moses, Elijah, Yehoshua


SAME SOUL

Enoch in the previous AGE.

Whose bones do we have?

Whose grave is known?

Who raised the dead?

Who prayed for the souls of the doomed and received blessing?

None other than those.

Yehoshua came in the spirit of Elijah.

John the baptist came in the spirit of the Bride...



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I believe rEincarnation is meant to add understanding and perspective to every soul. If this life were the only life that one could live, it would limit their undertanding of the human soul. Simply put, the soul learns what it's like to be a middle aged Mexican woman, a Chinese midget, a Turkish prince, and a billionaire White dude.

It adds perspective that may not otherwise be gained.


Karma/reincarnation is self-defeating.

In order for all people to "add understanding and perspective" to their soul then they would know, grasp and understand what it is to be Chinese, Mexican, Muslim, etc. yet the evidence we have simply contradicts that. Wars rage on, ethnic violence is increasing and the middle East wants Israel totally wiped out.

If karma is to work then I would have a memory of my past life so I can continue to better myself and others, thus reaching perfection and an end to "my cycle".



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by UnrealZA
What is the purpose of reincarnation/karma ?

Anyone care to tackle that?



Reincarnation is God's mechanism for learning, repentance, and is the ultimate source of His GRACE and mercy upon ALL of us. The only way to give us both our own mind yet ensure that not a single one is lost is to give us many experiences that we do not consciously recall (and the subconscious recollections are the storehouse of our sufferings which prevent us from stumbling about in blind error forever) is by
being eternally patient and not withholding our opportunities.

Karma is the 'law.' An eye for an eye. Christ taught us that the only way was through Him. He was truthful in that, of course.

He loved all - even those who would CRUCIFY him - those whose people his soul had brought out of the wilderness from Egypt!!! HE died at their hand without a PEEP.

He did not return an eye for an eye - and He didn't break the law.

He fulfilled the law and only by doing as He showed us to do (trust God within us, show no outward false piety, tell the truth and care for others as if they were our own) can we begin to understand the mysteries behind the gospel and the origins of this age as well as the end of it, too.

The end of this age is the restoration of all things - and the resurrection of the saints is the conscious recollection of our true self without the sorrows that He's blessed us by giving them only for learning but not for mourning.


queenannie,

Ponder this perplexing perdiciment for me please, and please also reply.

If "karma" is of God then who is the more "Eternal" of the two?

If the purpose of karma is to teach us, a "mechanism of repentance", what then did it do while there were no people, seeing as it is eternal? Did it just sit around?

-OR-

If it's not eternal, created by God to teach us, to be used as a "mechanism of repentance" what then did the very first soul, "Adam", do so that karma was caused to be attached to him? In other words, what did Adam do to get karma started seeing that he had no previous life?

Perhaps God created karma knowing that people would need past lives so they could learn from past mistakes yet then again we have the problem of what got karma started, what got the proverbial ball rolling?

All finite "effects" must have a "cause" greater then itself so if God is the Creator then karma is an "effect" which would make it finite, not eternal.

The only other option is that karma is eternal yet by the very definition you give and other give karma it would be contradictory.

Reading these threads brings to memory (not by karma either as I read this in this, my only life) a phrase I read which stated something like..."When man ceases to believe in God, he will believe in almost anything"



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 10:10 AM
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That would defeat the purpose of reincarnation. This life is meaningless except as a means to better understand the universe. Wars rage on because without war, a soul wouldn't know the life as a soldier. Without famine a soul wouldn't know what it was like to starve, and so forth.



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by UnrealZAKarma/reincarnation is self-defeating.

In order for all people to "add understanding and perspective" to their soul then they would know, grasp and understand what it is to be Chinese, Mexican, Muslim, etc. yet the evidence we have simply contradicts that.
If karma is to work then I would have a memory of my past life so I can continue to better myself and others, thus reaching perfection and an end to "my cycle".

You say you would have a memory of your past life. Why would you? I am not saying you are wrong, just that I don't understand how you can be able to state that you know karma can't work without your past memories. It is not my place to say whether or not past memories would help or hinder, no matter which one I feel makes more sense. If you had lived a 1000 lives, I'd think that there would be too many memories for you to be able to store. Also, maybe there are -ve repercussions to everyone knowing their past lives, such as someone who was, for example, a serial killer in their last life. That would be hard to deal with. Or, maybe it makes it too easy to be worthwhile, like having a textbook with the answers in it. You might not learn the material as well because you have the answer key.



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
You say you would have a memory of your past life. Why would you? I am not saying you are wrong, just that I don't understand how you can be able to state that you know karma can't work without your past memories. It is not my place to say whether or not past memories would help or hinder, no matter which one I feel makes more sense. If you had lived a 1000 lives, I'd think that there would be too many memories for you to be able to store. Also, maybe there are -ve repercussions to everyone knowing their past lives, such as someone who was, for example, a serial killer in their last life. That would be hard to deal with. Or, maybe it makes it too easy to be worthwhile, like having a textbook with the answers in it. You might not learn the material as well because you have the answer key.


That is correct. It's too much for your mind to handle. If you wish to remember your past lives, there are methods to accomplish it. There are therapists that do past life regression hypnosis and it's very effective in bringing up those memories. But if you study the subject and you want to remember strongly enough, your memories will come to you in different forms.

There are a lot of good books on the subject. Do a search for a man named Edgar Cayce. He was one of the pioneers in this subject and was able to do past life readings on people while in trance. I started my research with his books and it really teaches you so much.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
That would defeat the purpose of reincarnation. This life is meaningless except as a means to better understand the universe. Wars rage on because without war, a soul wouldn't know the life as a soldier. Without famine a soul wouldn't know what it was like to starve, and so forth.


Is not the purpose of karma to "instruct" and guide us towards perfection? Is not the goal to reach a state or place where you no longer re-incarnate?

Your logic would then state that you need to molest a child, rape someone, have yourself raped, your child raped, you must murder someone, be a drug addict, sell women into the sex slave trade, etc. So why don't you go out and do those things right away and this way you can get on with your progression that much faster?

I don't need to rape anyone, murder anyone nor harm a child to KNOW what it feels like or to know those are wrong! Likewise I don't need to put my hand in a fire to know what it feels like to be a burn victim. That logic is illogical and idiotic.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Originally posted by UnrealZAKarma/reincarnation is self-defeating.

In order for all people to "add understanding and perspective" to their soul then they would know, grasp and understand what it is to be Chinese, Mexican, Muslim, etc. yet the evidence we have simply contradicts that.
If karma is to work then I would have a memory of my past life so I can continue to better myself and others, thus reaching perfection and an end to "my cycle".

You say you would have a memory of your past life. Why would you? I am not saying you are wrong, just that I don't understand how you can be able to state that you know karma can't work without your past memories. It is not my place to say whether or not past memories would help or hinder, no matter which one I feel makes more sense. If you had lived a 1000 lives, I'd think that there would be too many memories for you to be able to store. Also, maybe there are -ve repercussions to everyone knowing their past lives, such as someone who was, for example, a serial killer in their last life. That would be hard to deal with. Or, maybe it makes it too easy to be worthwhile, like having a textbook with the answers in it. You might not learn the material as well because you have the answer key.


If the goal of karma is to teach us, so that we can reach a state of "perfection", whan then is it teaching us if we are unable to know from our past life where we failed?

I personally know 5 people who have went through hypnosis to gain understandings of past lives. Each one told me that they were someone very important in that past life. One was a royal guard for Cleopatra, another was a native Indian warchief, another was a pilot in WWI who won many dogfights and another was Annie Oakley herself.....I believe "he" was the 3rd person I had heard of that claimed they had been Annie Oakley!

Funny how none of them said they were a trash collector from the Bronx, or a transvestite gym teacher, a rapist or a bum that lived in the gutter. It's always someone of vast importance.

No one has dealt with my post as of yet directly.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
That would defeat the purpose of reincarnation. This life is meaningless except as a means to better understand the universe. Wars rage on because without war, a soul wouldn't know the life as a soldier. Without famine a soul wouldn't know what it was like to starve, and so forth.


Is not the purpose of karma to "instruct" and guide us towards perfection?


NO. It is the 'law' of balance that maintains a world full of imbalancing error caused by what we humans call 'free will.'

God guides us, karma maintains the balance that our unjust deeds constantly threaten to send out of whack.

An 'eye for an eye'.


Is not the goal to reach a state or place where you no longer re-incarnate?


NO. The goal is to repent and to seek out a Godly nature rather than a selfish human nature. God has infinite patience and wills NOT that even one be lost.

2 Peter 3:9

NOTHING is different except that we are given chances (AND free will) instead of a 70 year harder-than-hell chance to become a 'christian' and be 'saved.'

God will save us - but He gives us experiences and opportunities that are far greater than what evangelical christianity threatens us with. God is not unrighteous but fair in all ways.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 08:36 AM
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May I ask where you get the notion we have "free will" ??



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 09:00 AM
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queenannie,

It appears you missed my previous post, directed mainly to you. I would appreciate you looking at that and if you are able, please respond. If not, I again understand.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Which one? I read the thread, but it didn't catch my eye, I'm sorry - but point it out and I'll answer.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA

If the goal of karma is to teach us, so that we can reach a state of "perfection", whan then is it teaching us if we are unable to know from our past life where we failed?

Funny how none of them said they were a trash collector from the Bronx, or a transvestite gym teacher, a rapist or a bum that lived in the gutter. It's always someone of vast importance.

No one has dealt with my post as of yet directly.

First of all, UnrealZA, thank you. I have asked that same question about past lives always being people like Moses and Charlemagne. I met a guy who used to be the Grand Master of the Knights Templar, Jacques DeMolay.... I believe that our bodies are just a vessel, and death affects just the body. And reincarnation is my current best bet for what happens to 'us', call it our soul, spirit, mind, or whatever. I have read accounts of past lives that were of insignificant people, but they are few and far between. I was probably a bum in the gutter myself, or maybe a feudal peasant labourer, and if past lives are real, I doubt I was ever nobility, or royalty.
But, I still see the karma issue the same. But I understand your position. It is like when I have written exams and gotten certificates of qualification from the government. They would tell me my mark, but not which questions I got wrong. I found that puzzling, and can't see the value of them doing that. But I see the other side too, the difference between being given all the answers and having to find them out yourself. For example, if you were on a job site and your boss showed you every step of a task to teach you how to do it, I feel that you are less likely to retain every detail. On the other hand, if he describes what needs being done and says 'Get to it, call me when your done.", and you screw up, redo things three times, take five times as long to do it, and nearly lose your mind before you finally do it right, you are more likely to remember. Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
That is just my opinion. So rather than show us all our past lives, maybe we are just put into a life path that incorporates all of the challenges that we have yet to master.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 12:06 AM
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Blackguard,

While we disagree I do appreciate very much your truthful reply.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 03:06 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
Blackguard,

While we disagree I do appreciate very much your truthful reply.


Well, I appreciate your compliment, and at least we agree on being a bit suspicious of the abundance of folks who claim to have been celebs in past lives.
I want to make it clear that I am only giving my opinion, and I have been wrong a lot. But I do try to be honest. So thank you.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
May I ask where you get the notion we have "free will" ??


"free will" is the ability to make our own choices in life. Every day you make decisions on how to respond to things that happen around you. You may make bad choices, and hopefully you learn from them, but you still have the free will to make the wrong decision instead of the right one.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 06:48 AM
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I often wonder if de ja vu and memories (that we cannot readily say that we've experienced) are functions of energy and its patterns.. I've heard stories of ghost trains that when the energies (light, time, whatever else) is right, people see and hear a train even though the tracks were pulled up years ago... Maybe energy has that property, and because our bodies are mostly water, and our brain/spinal cord is an antenna... maybe we pick up on this stuff?

Likewise, I wonder if there's a function of memory in our dna.. maybe in our brains.. Elephants have ancetral memory, where they know that there's, say, a waterhole over here, and they go straight there -- even though that individual elephant has never been there before. So, maybe humans have the same thing? (I've heard stories of people who've recieved organ transplants, and who begin exhibited traits of the one who originally had the organ..)



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
Karma/reincarnation is self-defeating.


No, it's Self realizing. (note the 'S'.. the Self that is beyond the ego of this realm)



In order for all people to "add understanding and perspective" to their soul then they would know, grasp and understand what it is to be Chinese, Mexican, Muslim, etc. yet the evidence we have simply contradicts that. Wars rage on, ethnic violence is increasing and the middle East wants Israel totally wiped out.

If karma is to work then I would have a memory of my past life so I can continue to better myself and others, thus reaching perfection and an end to "my cycle".


I would suggest you read the 'Baghavad Gita' before deciding one way or the other.. (At least investigate it so as to make an informed decision..)

"Just as a fire is covered by smoke and a mirror is obscured by dust, just as the embryo rests deep within the womb, knowledge is hidden by selfish desire -- hidden ... by this unquenchable fire for self-satisfaction, the inveterate enemy of the wise." (3:38-39)

You don't just wake up on day with the knowledge... you have to work towards it. "He who shirks action does not attain freedom; no one can gain perfection by abstaining from work" (3:4). The process of enlightenment would be pointless if every twit and twurp got it from birth with absolutely no effort...

Karma, the 'Baghavad Gita', the entire structure requires you to stop thinking only for yourself, and thinking about others -- which, in today's world, is possible (anything's possible), but not plausible outside of individual people's behavior. "Selfish action imprisons the world. Act selflessly, without any thought of personal profit" (3:9).

I've read the 'Baghavad Gita' several times for several different papers.. the 'evidence' is nothing but delusion, and our true Selves are still hidden behind that smokescreen. We can thank the gunas for that.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 07:30 AM
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:bnghd::bnghd::bnghd::bnghd:



If it's not eternal, created by God to teach us, to be used as a "mechanism of repentance" what then did the very first soul, "Adam", do so that karma was caused to be attached to him? In other words, what did Adam do to get karma started seeing that he had no previous life?


From the preface of the 'Baghavad Gita', written by Eknath Easwaran:



"Thus every act or thought has consequences, which themselves will have consequences; life is the most intricate web of interconnections. ... Literally, karma means 'something that is done.' Often it can be translated as 'deed' or 'action.' The law of karma states simply that every event is both a cause and effect. Every act has consequences of a similar kind, which in turn have further consequences and so on; every act, every karma, is also the consequence of some previous karma. ... Plainly put, the law of karma says that whatever you do will come back to you." (xxvii-iii)


*Any* act (physical or mental) done will cause karma, both good and bad. Karma can be caused from a previous life, or the current -- that is not the point. Karma is meant to teach us in this life.



Karma is the 'law.' An eye for an eye.


So far from the truth it hurts!! :bnghd:

From the text itself: "Do not get angry or harm any living creature, but be compassionate and gentle; show good will to all. Culture vigor, patience, will, purity; avoid malice, pride... ...hypocrisy, arrogance, conceit, angry, cruelty, ignorance" (16:1-4)

Ghandi (who was Hindu, thus followed and understood the idea of karma) said, "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind." If you 'poke out someone else's eye' you are farther from enlightenment because you are continuing the chain and thus have more to learn...

In fact, it's better to understand that the point of karma is to learn to restrain one's reactionary emotions. By learning to overcome anger, one stops the flow of karmic kick-backs.. "When the senses contact sense-objects, a person experiences cold or heat, pleasure or pain. These experiences are fleeting; they come and go. Bear them patiently... Those who are unaffected by these changes, who are the same in pleasure and pain, are truly wise and fit... Assert your strength and realize this!" (2:14-15)



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