It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Pentagon Briefing: Terrorists Are "Rational Actors" Following Their Holy Book

page: 1
4
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 11:23 AM
link   
Since the 911 attacks the White House has consistently described terrorists as bolonging to some fringe element of extremism that "distorts" the true meaning of Islam. However, this article highlights a recent Pentagon briefing wherein intelligence anaylists have reached a different conclusion after studying Islamic scripture and the backgrounds of suicide terrorists.
 



www.wnd.com
In Islam, it is not how one lives one's life that guarantees spiritual salvation, but how one dies, according to the briefings. There are great advantages to becoming a martyr. Dying while fighting the infidels in the cause of Allah reserves a special place and honor in Paradise. And it earns special favor with Allah.

"Suicide in defense of Islam is permitted, and the Islamic suicide bomber is, in the main, a rational actor," concludes a recent Pentagon briefing paper titled, "Motivations of Muslim Suicide Bombers.

The briefing – produced by a little-known Pentagon intelligence unit called the Counterintelligence Field Activity, or CIFA – cites a number of passages from the Quran dealing with jihad, or "holy" warfare, martyrdom and Paradise, where "beautiful mansions" and "maidens" await martyr heroes. In preparation for attacks, suicide terrorists typically recite passages from six surahs, or chapters, of the Quran: Baqura (Surah 2), Al Imran (3), Anfal (8), Tawba (9), Rahman (55) and Asr (103).


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Since the September 11, 2001 attacks I've taken a keen interest in Islam and studying what it is about the Qur'an and other texts that "extremists" use to justify their brutal behavior. What I've learned is that these "extremists" aren't extreme at all. They seem to literally follow what Islamic texts say.

I am extremely pleased that finally there is some official effort, at least in part, to break the bonds of political correctness and tell the truth based on facts and supporting evidence.

Pay close attention: Watch the Bush administration slowly move from describing terrorists as "fringe elements" or "extremists" to describing them as being part of a sect who follow a brutal interpretation of Islam's holy texts. I believe this is an important shift in definition because, while it highlights Islam as being the driving force in what motivates terrorists it still isolates them in their own group and prevents the perception that the west is engaged in a religious war.

Related News Links:
www.jihadwatch.org


[edit on 29-9-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]




posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 01:12 PM
link   
I want to know who wrote this so-called report I have read the Quran several times and it strongly condemns suicide for one and stresses repeatdly tolerance for people of the book, i.e. Jews and Christians. Infidels in the context of the Quran are pagans. Context is everything and the Quran is, first and foremost a historical document of its time and without that context it makes little sense. Some groups within Islam may interpert the Quran in this manner as some "Christians" interpert the Bible to support their extremisms but in the long run both groups are minorities...loud, violent and obnoxious but still minorites.



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 08:37 PM
link   
I find it very interesting that you neither, (A) include any supporting text from the quran
and, (B) provide no links to recognized news sites, with your only supporting link to a anti-islamic website. Hmmm.



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 08:43 PM
link   
Yes, Jihadwatch is very racist and anti-muslim. His author was on C2C and it was so stupid. And yes, the Quran is condemning terrorism. They are using the ignorance of people about the quran for propaganda motives.



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 09:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by grover
I want to know who wrote this so-called report


From the article:


The briefing – produced by a little-known Pentagon intelligence unit called the Counterintelligence Field Activity, or CIFA – cites a number of passages from the Quran dealing with jihad, or "holy" warfare, martyrdom and Paradise,...



Originally posted by grover
I have read the Quran several times and it strongly condemns suicide for one and stresses repeatdly tolerance for people of the book, i.e. Jews and Christians.


Site your reference(s). As far as "tolerance" is concerned the Qur'an is repleat with intolerant statements against those that are unislamic OR Christians and Jews.

From the Qur'an: 5:51. O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

I don't have the time to sit here and post EVERY intolerant reference in the Qur'an. So-called extremists justify their actions from Islamic texts. I challenge YOU to prove them wrong!! Also; CIFA used all Islamic texts (read the article) not just the Qur'an.

OK; so you won't believe a website headed up by a scholar who has spent over 20 years of his life studying and understand Islam and the minds of Muslims. [url=http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 09:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Yes, Jihadwatch is very racist and anti-muslim. His author was on C2C and it was so stupid. And yes, the Quran is condemning terrorism. They are using the ignorance of people about the quran for propaganda motives.


Show your proof and references. Support your claims here.



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 09:59 PM
link   
1. Qur'an 2:256.
2. Qur'an 42:13.
3. Qu'ran 42:14-16.
4. Qur'an 4:169; 5:77; and 5:116.
5. Qur'an 4:155,156.
6. Qur'an 45:27-29.
7. Qur'an 2:62.

Among so many others.

Translation from the Arabic is very problematic and it is important to you an authorized text such as A. Yusaf Ali's splendid transliteration. While, unlike the Bible, the Quran has always been in the same language so there is no debate as to how to translate it from one language to another among the faithful, there are issues of interpretation of meaning.

Also when it comes to translation, especially into western languages, the agenda of the translator comes into play...not only have there been interpretations done by Muslims to support terrorism, there have been interpretations done by (mostly Christians) to defame Islam. Which is why it is important to use an authorized version.

BTW my source for those quotes was www.religionfacts.com... an excellent resource for information on other religions...add to that www.sacred-texts.com... as well.

[edit on 29-9-2006 by grover]

[edit on 29-9-2006 by grover]



posted on Sep, 30 2006 @ 12:47 AM
link   
Salaam, Freedom_for_sum. I suggest reading my replies in these topics here and here. These are the surrahs anti-Islamic websites like to take out of context.



posted on Sep, 30 2006 @ 07:07 AM
link   
Again... I stress when it comes to all religious texts, but especially the Quran, context is everything. The Quran is the most topical of all the religious texts. The vast majority of the surrah's were revealed in response to specific situitions and events at the time and were never meant to be guidelines to the faithful for all eternity. It wasn't until the decades after Muhammad's death that the ones that were saved (or remembered) were written down and complied in the arrangement that they are now.

Also when people criticize Muhammad, and the Quran for its seemingly brutal dealings, again context is everything. Arabia in the 7th century was a backward place of almost constant tribal warfare where you had to fight to live or die. Where men had absolute control over women and children and female babies were often left exposed in the desert to die. They worshiped a multitude of gods and had little in the way of culture except for an incredibly expressive language. Muhammad changed all that except the language, of which the Quran is one of its greatest achievements.

Muhammad gave rights to women that were advanced in their day, even in civilized areas such as the Persian empire and Bynzintum, where for a matter of fact the Arabs first encounter the secluding of women and the veil, features absent in Arab culture at the time. He ended infanticide, ended idolatry, united the Arab tribes under the banner of one religion and spurred one of the greatest cultural flowerings the world has ever seen.

Again all the writings that deal with warfare and battle must be taken into context as well....during the time of Muhammad's prophethood, roughly the last 20 years of his life, the community of the faithful were under almost constant threat of extermination, mostly from the Meccans (a city btw he ended up conquoring without bloodshed) and they had to defend themselves and much of those writings had to deal with that fact.

An Islamic empire, like ALL empires was spread by the sword but despite the myth, Islam was not. In fact for the first century non Arabs were prohibited from converting, their conquorers perferred to tax them instead, it wasn't until the 2nd century after the death of Muhammad that people were allowed to convert, without force. The only people ever offered the choice of convert or die were the pagans of Arabia.

Many of the features that we today consider specifically Muslim were features of the countries the Arabs conquored, long before they came along, and were eventually incorporated into the fabric of Islam of that area, much as what happened under Christianity.

I highly recommend Karen Armstrong's excellent primer "Islam: A Short History" or one of the links I provided earlier.

It is a real pity that Americans as a rule show so little interest in the world around them or the cultural and religious peoples so deeply involved in current events. We could possibly avoid a lot of problems if we actually made the efforts to learn as opposed to buying into the quick and easy answers, which as is so often, lies, myths and false truths.

[edit on 30-9-2006 by grover]



posted on Sep, 30 2006 @ 11:01 AM
link   
I will concede that the terrorists are following THEIR interpretations of the Quran but they are far far from mainstream of Islam which, unfortunately is suggested by this thread.

I all actuality according to Quarnic teachings there is no salvation outside of the community of the faithful, but as Muhammad and the earlier interpretors of the faith meant it, it was as a counterjustiposition of the monastic trends in Christianity and other faiths, i.e. It is within the life of the community that one finds one's purpose and meaning or salvation in life and not outside of it, ie. as in the monastic life.

Islam is a very social faith and to be in harmony with the teachings and intent of God means that the entire community is in harmony with those teachings, and when it is, the community will prosper. And, that ideal is at the very heart of the struggles current in Islam today, because obviously the community is not prospering, only a few are and the struggle (jihad) to move it so that is in harmony with the will of God is one of the roots of the fundamentalism movements today. The terrorist roots are somewhat different however... they start with the same ideal but couple that a deep and abiding resentment of (not the west and its freedoms as Bush would have it) the west's meddling in its affairs.



posted on Sep, 30 2006 @ 11:11 AM
link   
Isn't this what the Pope implied? I wonder if the radicals will demand an apology from the pentagon? Wouldn't that be funny?



posted on Oct, 2 2006 @ 02:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by grover
1. Qur'an 2:256.
2. Qur'an 42:13.
3. Qu'ran 42:14-16.
4. Qur'an 4:169; 5:77; and 5:116.
5. Qur'an 4:155,156.
6. Qur'an 45:27-29.
7. Qur'an 2:62.



2:256. There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm hand hold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.


This verse is a good example of Islamic intolerance. Some Muslims interpret this verse to mean that you can't force religion on anyone. This is not true. It is saying that those who convert to/follow Islam (reject "false deities") will be in the right direction and free from error. Therefore a Muslim doesn't need to be compelled toward religion as it will come natural to him (...firm hand hold that will never break).


42:13. He hath ordained for you that religion which He commended unto Noah, and that which We inspire in thee (Muhammad), and that which We commended unto Abraham and Moses and Jesus, saying: Establish the religion, and be not divided therein. Dreadful for the idolaters is that unto which thou callest them. Allah chooseth for Himself whom He will, and guideth unto Himself him who turneth (toward Him).


Establish "the religion" and be not divided means they should follow only one religion (Islam) for Allah only guides those "who turneth toward him" (follow Islam).


42:14. And they were not divided until after the knowledge came unto them, through rivalry among themselves; and had it not been for a Word that had already gone forth from thy Lord for an appointed term, it surely had been judged
between them. And those who were made to inherit the Scripture after them are verily in hopeless doubt concerning it.

42:15. Unto this, then, summon (O Muhammad). And be thou upright as thou art commanded, and follow not their lusts, but say: I believe in whatever Scripture Allah hath sent down, and I am commanded to be just among you. Allah is our
Lord and your Lord. Unto us our works and unto you your works; no argument between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and unto Him is the journeying.

42:16. And those who argue concerning Allah after He hath been acknowledged, their argument hath no weight with their Lord, and wrath is upon them and theirs will be an awful doom.


These three verses together clearly show what awaits those go against Islam (awful doom). The question is: Who is responsible for exacting Allah's wrath? Islamic literalists will tell you that Allah punishes through them.

4:167-169


167. Lo! those who disbelieve and hinder (others) from the way of Allah, they verily have wandered far astray.
168. Lo! those who disbelieve and deal in wrong, Allah will never forgive them, neither will He guide them unto a road.
169. Except the road of hell, wherein they will abide for ever. And that is ever easy for Allah.


Again: these verses show what happens to those who disbelieve (non-Muslims)

I could go on and on. The fact remains that it is Muslims who interpret Islamic text in an "extreme" or literal way and it is they who need to be "educated". I am not the one you need to convince.



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 06:02 AM
link   
you are so clearly bias against Islam, your interpertations of the meanings of the Quran have no crediblity whatsoever.



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 08:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by grover
you are so clearly bias against Islam, your interpertations of the meanings of the Quran have no crediblity whatsoever.


You don't get it----It's not about MY interpretation. It's about the so-called "extremists" interpretation or wahbiist, or the taliban, or Al Qaeda. it's all about how they can justify their actions using Islamic texts. It's about how, in part, otherwise mainstream Muslims, such as the Imam from this Islamic Q&A Website interpret what is stated in islamic texts. This is what this article is about. Don't you understand that it is not ME or those like me you need to convince? I'm not the one "hijacking" Islam. The problem you have in me is my perception of so-called "moderate" Muslims who refuse to take a stand against the "extremists" hijacking your religion. Those same Muslims who riot and murder at the drop of a hat when their prophet Muhamed or Islam are criticized. Those same Muslims, abroad AND here in the states, who danced in the streets celebrating the 911 attacks.

Note to DJMessiah: In another thread you stated you are always engaged in dialoug with "extremists" and that you were going to start one with the Imam mentioned above. Where are you with that?



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 10:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Don't you understand that it is not ME or those like me you need to convince? I'm not the one "hijacking" Islam.


Didn't we already speak once before? I feel that Muslim's have a duty not only to teach extremists on what the Quran says, but people like you as well, because as much as you would like to tell us otherwise, you're spreading the same types of teachings of Islam as the extremists. You can blame them all you want, but it's not them posting the adulterated meanings of the Quran on here, it's you. You're justifying their cause for violence, by spouting their teachings as truth.


The problem you have in me is my perception of so-called "moderate" Muslims who refuse to take a stand against the "extremists" hijacking your religion.


We have already spoken about this as well. Did you forget when I said the media chooses not to give us air time?


Those same Muslims who riot and murder at the drop of a hat when their prophet Muhamed or Islam are criticized. Those same Muslims, abroad AND here in the states, who danced in the streets celebrating the 911 attacks.


Last time I checked, I didn't kill anyone for making a cartoon of Muhammad. Since you're so sure of Muslims dancing in the streets in the US after 9/11, show us your proof.


Note to DJMessiah: In another thread you stated you are always engaged in dialoug with "extremists" and that you were going to start one with the Imam mentioned above. Where are you with that?


Still no reply from him, but now I see the issue should also be opening dialogue with you. I thought from the other topic, I explained well enough that the quotes from the Quran you posted were taken out of context from it's original meaning, but I see you're doing it on here as well. I will be sure to follow your topics from now on. Salaam. - Masseeh

Edit: You said, In another thread you stated you are always engaged in dialoug with "extremists". Show me where I said I am "always engaging in dialoug with extremists." I said that I have been looking to have a theological debate with anyone who is of extremist belief, but didn't find any.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 10:50 AM
link   
to read this article posted by the OP thanks!

I don't have to read the Islamic texts to know that the US and it's allies are in deep do-do. They are fighting a totally different kind of "enemy". It's a positive step forward, that the US is trying to understand the "stage" and it's actors.

Sadly they should have invested some time before hand rather than after the fact, and after numerous deaths on both sides of the fence.

Irregardless of the religious text and what exactly it says down to the letter...more to the point is that the insurgents have a strength that the US and it's allies do not.

100% conviction and faith in what they are fighting for. Be it wrong or be it right on the moral (morals are reliant on perspective and culture remember...) playing field.

We cannot win against this "type" of "enemy"...for the US to finally be looking into the faith of their foe(s) they will hopefully conclude what many already "know". This war is not the same for "us" as it is for "them"... same game different ball park.

I said it before I'll say it again (ad nauseum)...we (US and allies alike) need to get the hell out of there and rethink. Yet more soldiers will die, and more fuel added to this inferno...every death of "ours" is a victory and every death of "theirs" is a badge of honor". It's win-win for them and lose-lose for us.

The Pentagon has it's homework assignment. I expect a failing grade.

[edit on 10/3/2006 by justgeneric]



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 11:24 AM
link   
And THIS is ATSNews?

Source: www.jihadwatch.org?

Pathetic...

War on Terror-ism - or War on Islam?




posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 11:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by Souljah
And THIS is ATSNews?

Source: www.jihadwatch.org?

Pathetic...

War on Terror-ism - or War on Islam?



If you look at other topics made by topic creator, you will see they are all made to give a negative view of Islam. I have seen people question him about it, and his reply is "It's not me you need to convince, it's the extremists."



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 11:37 AM
link   
I know exactly what you are saying sum and I disagree. You paint with way too broad of a brush, and like I said earlier, take passages from the Quran out of context in which they were written. As a matter of fact so do the extremists. Your failing is that you do not make the distinction between (A) Good, and decent Muslims and the terrorists and (2) Those writings in the Quran that were obviously addressing issues and events of the times and passages that were meant as instructions on how to live the life.

I have told this before but it still bears repeating.

Right after 9/11 Bill Mahar had a Pakistani musician on his show "Politically Incorrect". Mahar asked how could moderate Muslims support these kinds of acts? The musician, whose name I forget, replied that the vast majority of moderate Muslims are outraged by the terrorists and want nothing to do with them." To which Mahar responded by asking..."Then why aren't in the streets protesting the hijacking of their religion?" The musician asked Mahar in response...

"When was the last time you heard of moderates taking to the street about anything."

That statement could very well be applied to this country and its religious and political isues as well.

They have the Taliban (among others ) we have the Christian Reconstructionists (among others) no difference except religion and the fact that the Taliban had and lost (and are trying to regain) a state, and the Christian Reconstructionists are trying to take over one (South Carolina) and establish a theocracy. And if they ever succeeded, their behaviour would be just as henious.



posted on Oct, 3 2006 @ 11:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by DJMessiah
I feel that Muslim's have a duty not only to teach extremists on what the Quran says, but people like you as well, because as much as you would like to tell us otherwise, you're spreading the same types of teachings of Islam as the extremists.


If it weren't for 911, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Iran, the subjugation of non-Muslims in Arab lands, honor killings, rioting Muslims because they're "offended" and Madrassas that teach the very information being taught by that Islam Q&A Website; I would never even given Islam a second look. Until "moderate" Muslims address these issues and root out the "extremists" hijacking their religion, I will contunue to highlight the ugliness that exists throughout Islam. Once this aspect of Islam is gone--I'm gone too as there will be no reason to continue to criticize. You want me to stop showing how they justify their acts from Islamic texts? Get control and get rid of them!


Originally posted by DJMessiah
You can blame them all you want, but it's not them posting the adulterated meanings of the Quran on here, it's you.


They aren't "posting adulterated meanings"; they live their lives by the "adulterated meanings"!! Which is worse?!? It is they who are decapitating innocents and displaying their proud behavior for all to see. It is they who strap bombs to themselves and kill as many, even women and children, as they can in the name of Islam. It is they who imprison women who are raped because the woman's tesimony is only worth 1/4 that of a man's under Sharia law. It is they who beat their wives because they are permitted under Surah 4:34.

My question to you is: Why aren't YOU blaming them? Why aren't you pointing your finger at them and proclaim them as the evil entity they are? You seem to be more interested in protecting their behavior by arguing against those (like me) who point out their behavior and show how justify their actions using Islamic texts. Why?


Originally posted by DJMessiah
You're justifying their cause for violence, by spouting their teachings as truth.


Wrong!! They are justifying their cause for violence. I'm simply showing how they're doing it.

The simple fact here DJ is that for every interpretation you put forth I can offer a alternate more nafarious interpretation. But attempting to convince me is wasted effort on your part becuase I am not the threat.



Originally posted by DJMessiah
Last time I checked, I didn't kill anyone for making a cartoon of Muhammad.


You're obfuscating the issue. It is Muslims inaction against those who are hijacking your religion that provides the tacit permission to those who have killed rioting.


Originally posted by DJMessiah
Since you're so sure of Muslims dancing in the streets in the US after 9/11, show us your proof.


When I was stuck in Dallas watching my company's aircraft being used as weapons of mass destruction it was reported/recorded (on CNN I believe) a group of Palestinian-Americans in Patterson New Jersey openly celebrating the attacks. It wasn't widely reported at the time because it was barely a flea-fart in the cesspool of what was happening that day. In addition, there were Muslims all over the globe being recorded celebrating. Anyone who paid any attention that day saw this. I don't need to prove it! I don't care whether you choose to believe me!


Originally posted by DJMessiah
Still no reply from him, but now I see the issue should also be opening dialogue with you. I thought from the other topic, I explained well enough that the quotes from the Quran you posted were taken out of context from it's original meaning, but I see you're doing it on here as well. I will be sure to follow your topics from now on. Salaam. - Masseeh


You can if you like; but again: you're wasting your time! There are many Islamic forums where you can fight the opinions of those who espouse fundamentalist Islamic thougt. Can you show me where you've engaged in dioloug on those sites?

By the way; here's a few questions for you so I can better assess your position:

1) Will you condemn the actions, means, and methods of al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, as well as Hezbollah and Hamas?

2)Do you recognize Israel's right to her own statehood?

3)CAIR (Council on American-islamic Relations) is the self-proclaimed voice of American Muslims. Do you recognize them as your spokeperson for issues concerning Muslims in America (This assumes you're in the US. If not; desregard this question)?

4)Do you believe the Constitution should be amended to include aspects of Sharia Law?

5)Do you acknowledge that it was Muslims who attcked new York on 911?

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join