Is Secrecy Good or Evil?

Is it good or evil among secret societies, or people not associated with secret societies? Wouldn't all-information revealed to everybody at all times create the most peace in the world? The human pride and arrogance of "I am better than you" perpetuates secrecy. Because of its foundation of hatred for fellow humans and its lack of truth, secrecy has caused more wars than almost anything; the patent office is only one of many reasons. God knows all and will reveal to all humans partly in this life and partly in the Afterlife who attempted to help us and who tried to harm us.

Secrecy shows clear hatred towards other humans: a clear lack of love and trust of part of God's creation.

With the realization that nothing is ever secret before God, which government agency and person is the most "secret"?

Originally posted by GreatTech
Is it good or evil among secret societies, or people not associated with secret societies? Wouldn't all-information revealed to everybody at all times create the most peace in the world? The human pride and arrogance of "I am better than you" perpetuates secrecy. Because of its foundation of hatred for fellow humans and its lack of truth, secrecy has caused more wars than almost anything; the patent office is only one of many reasons. God knows all and will reveal to all humans partly in this life and partly in the Afterlife who attempted to help us and who tried to harm us.
Secrecy shows clear hatred towards other humans: a clear lack of love and trust of part of God's creation.
With the realization that nothing is ever secret before God, which government agency and person is the most "secret"?

I think you are right, the Pope, the Cardinals should give a proper account of all the secrets hidden in the Vatican. Take the Library, it is the most mysterious institution in the papal city, for in its more than thirty miles of shelving are reputed to be the accumulated records of scandals, secrets, and revelations of the most shocking and explosive kind, blithely boxed and filed away with the insouciance born of centuries of silence and discretion. Not to mention the Finances...
I have been to Rome a few times (I live in Europe) and asked the clergyman that was our guide for the day, whether he thought that all the secrecy was bad. He replied that it is not bad in itself, a bit like electricity: you can use it to electricute or illuminate. In any case, he continued, not everybody is ready to know it all; a simple mind or a child's innocence must be protected from the often ughly side of the truth. As long as God knows, why should we tell?

Is Secrecy Good or Evil?

There was a time when these Brotherhoods had a mission to help humanity during the Fourth Root Race. This ended thousands of years ago. In this day in age, as we are now in the Fifth Root Race, we have developed the Ego-Soul to such a degree that our task now should be to gently persuade and not preach; nor try to convince via pressure, or to motivate politically through occult influence. We simply should be holding to the notion of spreading truth in the simple manner so that people feel they have the freedom to be able to decide for themselves what path to take - we no longer require the guidance of any secret brotherhoods. One of the missions of Christ was to fufill these roles and these secret societies still have not left us in peace to be free. I am not speaking about clubs, or teams but of groups that are not only international, but are organised and also have strong political ties.

Belinquest raised an excellent point regarding the Vatican's secrecy. What exactly do they plan on doing with all those books just sitting there - just to have it but not doing much of anything with it? Notice how the response from many well intentioned people is "others may not know how best to deal with the truths". Well, this is one reason why we still cannot be rid of several of these brotherhoods today - not that they are all evil, but that they still see themselves as being in the position to hold enlightenment and thus lead others. But in all their self-admiration and in calling themselves such, they have lost the ability to lead others and cannot comprehend that they too, no longer fully understand those very secrets that they claim to protect!

They have outlived their main purpose in the fourth root race of yesterday and as we can now see, not only with the advent of the internet but in many areas overall, people are frowning upon those who are hiding intentions from public scrutiny while endevouring to alter our lives from behind the scenes. Meanwhile, instead of leaving us in peace several of the more sinster forms (as I have spoken of many times here) see it fitting since their power is more threatened than ever, to try and remove our basic freedoms (and privacy) by telling us that the future is all about being one BIG happy family - having NO SECRETS and NO BORDERS! Yes, a lovely idea no?

So how do they expect us to take them seriously when they lie to us from dusk till dawn, telling us that there is no NWO? They speak underhandedly to us as if we are fools - as we catch them in falsehood upon falsehood - yet they remain steadfast in telling us that there are no secrets they are hiding from the general populace? Shame on them. For if it were not so dangerous it would almost be laughable but regardless their zone of influence is soon coming to an end.




[edit on 29-9-2006 by Cinosamitna]

This is a very narrow minded style of question. and here's why.

I am a mason, i will not tell you the masons secrets. that doesnt mean they are good or bad. that just means you are not entitled to know them because your not a mason.

Just being a human being does NOT make you entitled to know what goes on behind my closed doors. Nor does it make you prevelante to the knowledge that one might not want you to know.

perfect examples of both good and bad secrets.

1. if i sleep around on my wife but dont tell her is that bad? YES

2. if i buy her a christmas present and dont tell her what it is till christmas is that bad? NO

So are secrets good or bad? well they are both. IT just depends on the secret.

Wouldn't all-information revealed to everybody at all times create the most peace in the world?

Please start the end of secrecy,
tell us your name, SSN, address, bank account numbers, and all other personal information about yourself.

Or are you better than everyone else and hate other humans.

Originally posted by umwolves123
This is a very narrow minded style of question. and here's why.

I am a mason, i will not tell you the masons secrets. that doesnt mean they are good or bad. that just means you are not entitled to know them because your not a mason.

Just being a human being does NOT make you entitled to know what goes on behind my closed doors. Nor does it make you prevelante to the knowledge that one might not want you to know.

perfect examples of both good and bad secrets.

1. if i sleep around on my wife but dont tell her is that bad? YES

2. if i buy her a christmas present and dont tell her what it is till christmas is that bad? NO

So are secrets good or bad? well they are both. IT just depends on the secret.

I do applaud...
but thats a poor example really of expressing the situation.
Just because you talk good does not make what you say good.

if you sleep around on your wife but don't tell her... thats obviously bad

now presents... thats a crafty way of making an example of a 'good' secret... but but a present is already the persons you buy it for, therefore it is that persons.

the idea of presents is funny, same as charity as it occurs. What Charity SHOULD be is giving people what they already should have had in the first place. Because one has more than they need. Not a pity or a 'oh look what I'm doing' event....

Now I know I'm blowing this way out of proportion and I am in no way directing this at you... although I'm using your statements to make statements of my own opinion.

Secrets altogether are useless...

To say Secret is to say Ignorance

One really has to be assured or have assurance that a secret is worthy to keep... therefore it needs ego to reinforce the idea... we're really trying to steer away from ego here.

I must say that I agree completely with umwolves123 and Skibum. Secrecy is neither bad nor good in each and every situation. I think it is not wise to say that there are absolutes concerning this.

If secrecy is always bad, then do what Skibum asked, give us your information.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
I must say that I agree completely with umwolves123 and Skibum. Secrecy is neither bad nor good in each and every situation. I think it is not wise to say that there are absolutes concerning this.

If secrecy is always bad, then do what Skibum asked, give us your information.

I agree the title is ambiguous. We do have more appropriate expressions for the personal nature of secrecy - example: 'private', or 'privacy'. At the end of the day, does failing to provide your credit card numbers to the public, necessarily alter the life of a people, or of a nation? At the end of the day, does a club or team not sharing its private motto's or secrets harm us or break any laws?

One may keep 'secrets' but if you marry them within politics, than I suggest both politics and secrets be kept as private as a credit card number. Unless someone wishes everyone to know it, they should not involve politics with secrets and expect the public to not eventually call attention to it after seeing those very intentions (in secret) manifest in public. Logically one may ask, what is so wrong with politics being pursued by secret societies today? The answer is not so much whether those intentions perused are considered good or bad.

The very "process" of politics is not supposed to be something done in secrecy; that is why we are supposed to have a Constitution and Bill of Rights. It is supposed to be done openly and in public with various checks and balances available for the public to be able to have some control. Now two men, both Bush and Kerry are S&B members. Their families are also involved in S&B. Does anyone truly think that the membership in S&B has absolutely no impact regarding politics? We witnessed them both competing for Presidency, did we not? Who else has had such connections and served as President in the past?



[edit on 29-9-2006 by Cinosamitna]

People know that secrecy is not good, and they won't give out vulnerable personal information cuz they are certain as can be that the only reason anyone would want it is to screw them.
It would be far more loving a world if that were not an issue. If being a jerk was not in vogue, and stealing, lying, cheating, etc. were not so prevalent, no one would worry about being open. I am open with near all people I know, to a fault, and they are mostly far less so. Secretiveness makes me suspicious.
Every great fortune hides a crime, someone said.
If you were homeless, would you care about giving all that information out? No, you have to if you want a chance at getting any aid at all.
The rich seem to value secrets far more than the poor, why is that?
Kennedy, as an example, criticized secrecy as being likely to exist for less than altruistic reasons.
No secrets, what a wonderful world that would be... then I could say what I really think.... yikes.
I often find I share my boo boos, my errors, my mistakes, and accidents, but it seems like no one else ever messes up.... or they are shy about sharing.

The opening question from the original poster, is kind of vague. Secrecy could encompasses an enormous amount of things.

But since this question is in the secret societies forum, he is referring to such.

In the Knights of Columbus the degree ceremonies are kept secret because it would spoil the impact that a new Knight would have. If a new Knight of Columbus knew exactly what was going to happen during the degree, it would ruin the experience for him. Sort of like if someone tells you the ending of a movie you want to see real bad, the movie is spoiled because you already know what to expect.

Secrecy isn't evil, in fact, it is something that you can share a bond with your fellow brothers, because only members of the order have that certain knowledge. In a way, it helps to create a fraternal bond between members, because one member knows another member has gone through the same things as him, and shares the same knowledge concerning the fraternal order.

Fraternity signifies a brotherhood, and there must be something common within that brotherhood that members share that no one outside shares, so that a distinction between members and non members is held.

What would be the purpose of a fraternal organization if there was no difference between being a member, or a non-member? The organization would not have a reason to attract members to it.

A fraternal order usually has secrets, privy only to members. Signs, passwords, handshakes, modes of recognition.....Let boys be boys, and men be men, and have something so we can bond to each other.

Secrecy creates conflict between country and country, country and group, group and country, country and individual, individual and country, group and individual, individual and group... Whatever happened to Universal Bonding? After all, are we not created equal? Maybe this is idealistic but should we not push towards an idealistic world that reduces and eliminates secrecy.

I would be interested in studies on how secrecy created wars and conflicts, and/or made them worse.

I am not sure I follow you now. We don't have true equality yet, but I think it would have to be a part of an ideal society.

Will eliminating secrecy lead to equality? How so?

How will the elimination of secrecy create an ideal world?

I do believe in unity (I'm a Unitarian Universalist after all) but how does a Christian reconcile the idea of such large scale unity with the story of the Tower of Babel? Please correct me if I am off base, but wasn't that story about God not wanting people to communicate or work together?

"It is a fair presumption that secrecy means impropriety.” - Woodrow Wilson

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free & open society; & we are as a people inherently & historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths & to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive & unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers, which are cited to justify it." - President John F. Kennedy

If no one felt they were threatened, everyone would be open. Power struggles lead to secrecy.

Originally posted by GreatTech
I would be interested in studies on how secrecy created wars and conflicts, and/or made them worse.

I believe it's called communism or collectivism and it offered a wonderful universal brotherhood, which claimed to contain no secrets (amongst the cattle that is) and wound up murdering hundreds of millions. Naturally it was all very necessary for the greater good, of the greater many and those children that were tortured were part of an experiement of brotherhood, peace and love. It also did a great job of amalgamating 98% of all the power into the hands of an evil elite.

Karl Marx was no atheist - how's that for a real dirty secret?

Now they would still prefer a universal brotherhood but this time around they would prefer we have even less privacy and they (not being of the cattle) hope to keep even more secrets from us which is another reason why they need to do something about "the internets", as per Mr. Bush and also forums like this one.

Who's they.......?

The same kind of people who are writing up bills like the one Mr. Bush just made Congress pass regarding torture and rein-terror-pretation of Geneva Law.



[edit on 1-10-2006 by Cinosamitna]

Originally posted by GreatTech
Secrecy creates conflict between country and country, country and group, group and country, country and individual, individual and country, group and individual, individual and group... Whatever happened to Universal Bonding? After all, are we not created equal? Maybe this is idealistic but should we not push towards an idealistic world that reduces and eliminates secrecy.
I would be interested in studies on how secrecy created wars and conflicts, and/or made them worse.

I can see from your other threads that you are a fervent Christian believer, nothing wrong with that but as I pointed out in my earlier post, the Vatican is also extrimely secretive.

It is odd that you choose to discuss secrecy on a "secret society" forum when there is so much more productive work to be done in the Christian Church.

I really don't understand the "Holier than thou attitude". Let the one with no sins cast the first stone?

Originally posted by GreatTech
Is it good or evil among secret societies, or people not associated with secret societies?

Secrecy is an ethically neutral thing, I would say. It can be used for good or bad, but can't be said to be good or bad on its own.

Wouldn't all-information revealed to everybody at all times create the most peace in the world?

Heck no. Why do you think it would?

The human pride and arrogance of "I am better than you" perpetuates secrecy.

If a person takes an oath to keep a secret, how is that arrogant? THey are bound by their oath. Arrogance may have lead them to make the oath, or any other number of things may have led them to make it. Why assume arrogance in this context? Are the sufis arrogant? They don't tell just anyone that comes along the 'secrets' to their mystical religion, they require people to actually do something to get at this knowledge. Why should information just be handed out without effort?

Also, in many of these cases, the information that is acheived at the end simply isn't the real goal, the goal is for the person to develop themselves by going after that information. Like the knight on a quest, what kind of story would it be, and what kind of character would the knight be for the reader, if he was told to seek something, and then turned around and it was right there? That'd make a pretty dull and unintersting tale no?

Secrecy is pointless, wth are we to hide?! We're a small world afterall!!

Originally posted by 7Ayreon
Secrecy is pointless, wth are we to hide?! We're a small world afterall!!

Alright then as was said before, what's your full name, social security number, and address. if secrecy is so pointless then why not just offer that info up? See you just saw the title and threw in a post for extra points. you didnt actually read it to offer up an educated response did you? Didnt think so.

Secrecy is like a cancer researcher who hides his cure for all types of cancer because he wanted to win a Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. If we are not self-seeking, we are world-seeking. If we are not world-seeking, we are universe-seeking. If we are not universe-seeking, we are Eternity-seeking, which should be the goal of all of Life.

Secrets are a Satanic mechanism for destroying human Life. God knows all truth and there is no secret to Him.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Secrets are a Satanic mechanism for destroying human Life. God knows all truth and there is no secret to Him.

Yes he does. Does he reveal ALL truth to YOU? I thought not. Know why? While everything is HIS business, not everything is YOUR business. Hence it is secret. God keeps secrets. Does that make His work "Satanic"?

HMMM????
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