What exactly is wrong with Bush making informed policy decisions and working with this fellows on the international level? None of that requires any NWO.

Worldnutdaily is a notoriously bad source of news, they don't seem to vet any of their information at all, but merely report on whatever bizzare stories they seem to be in favour of at the moment, not unlike the National Enquirer, etc.

Yup, that's right. You hit the spot mate, nice post.

On The Deck...
I kind of hate bringing this up, in part because I sound paranoid and in part because I don't want to believe it, but to answer your question

Why is Bush becoming so involved with Mexixo all of a sudden? Why is he hiding all of this? What the hell is this administration doing to our country and others around the world? I'm just asking 'cause...I'm curious...

I think it's the NWO. Everything going on lately, very suttley points me to believe there are secret groups pushing us toward a one world government - First the EU, then a Union of the Americas and a Union of Asian countries, then a one world government. And no matter how much we protest nothing will change that. It just seems everything our leaders do is contrary to what I would consider "for the people" of America. And so what's the point of voting? They all seem like they're in it together. Even if I vote Democrat I don't think it will change anything.

Again, perhaps I'm being paranoid. Perhaps it's as simple as once again the interests of big business are put before the interests of the people. But it sure smells of NWO.

Originally posted by mecheng


I think it's the NWO. Everything going on lately, very suttley points me to believe there are secret groups pushing us toward a one world government - First the EU, then a Union of the Americas and a Union of Asian countries, then a one world government. And no matter how much we protest nothing will change that. It just seems everything our leaders do is contrary to what I would consider "for the people" of America. And so what's the point of voting? They all seem like they're in it together. Even if I vote Democrat I don't think it will change anything.

Mechang please be aware that it doesn't just effect the people in the USA but it effects everyone all over the world! A one world government means exactly what it says.

Thanks

I understand that. We're talking about Bush here and his shadow government with Mexico and Canada.

But you're right, it does affect everyone. That's why I said I feel all of these "unions" between governments are simply a first step toward an ultimate one world government.

I wanted to respond, because I felt you were overlooking a lot of valid points, and were somewhat glib in some of your responses.

First, you mentioned the Kyoto Treaty. We don’t participate in the Kyoto treaty, because the U.S. decided not to sign that treaty. How do you mean “work with foreign governments”? If Bush is offering advise, or exchanging ideas with foreign governments that’s one thing. But if Bush is signing agreements that involve U.S. borders, our military forces, or is involved in anything resembling a treaty, or yields written agreements affecting U.S. law in any way shape or form, then we are talking about congressional oversight.

Ok, you don't like Corsi. That was mostly a dismissive and glib response. If you follow the texts Corsi is citing you can’t help but find his inferences based in reality.

You said, "Please explain why congress is needed in order for a highway to be built in the US. "

The bigger question is, why does the president of the United States want to build a highway? Congress is not needed to build U.S. highways, but the Congress IS needed to approve federal funding earmarked by our president for this purpose.

I'm concerned, as anyone should be when Bush wakes up in the morning, because Bush and his North American associates have a newly formed organization with a professional face, a host of plans for the future of our three countries, several U.S. agencies involved, and are inviting further elements of the private sector, business leaders and others to add, among other things, a Mexican superhighway, a single integrated North American trusted traveler program, which includes a new, North American ID/Passport to replace the old one, and a biometric traveler system(?). If that isn't enough to make Orwell wet his pants.

Was this where the problem, reaction, solution was supposed to lead us? This sort of system on our border with Mexico and Canada would be the start of a North American ID/biometric system that would "normalize" this system, and allow it to spread to U.S. airports and ports. Why not? We're using it at the Mexico border and with great success. We'll all be secure now (this is detailed at the spp.gov website under "2006 Report to Leaders". The not so subtle message to leaders must have been "mission accomplished"; The North American ID and biometric system is in place. You can almost hear Emperor Palpatine now, "Everything is proceeding as I had foreseen." This from a government whose Air Force Chief wanted to test "non-lethal" weapons, like microwave weapons, on U.S. citizens in crowd control scenarious before using them in a wartime situation to avoid being villified in the world press. I don't have space to add links. Google this info.)

They are not gathering together to share philosophies, they are gathering together to enact changes to U.S. law by fiat and without Congressional oversight. This is a presumptive assertion. But based on our government and corporations’ Machiavellian philosophy of self-interest, I’d say I’m right on about these f*ck*rs.

You said about us creating this Mexican/Canadian interstate that, "...its a darned good idea and should've been done years ago."

It won’t make a difference either way; it looks like it’s going to happen. However, if you understood that the corrupt Mexican government and Mexican corporations that employ the truck drivers that will be entering this country are not under the same regulations and restrictions that our drivers must abide by. This is fact. Some Mexican drivers have admitted to using illegal (in the U.S.) drugs to withstand the rigors of driving, and have even ran from fatal accidents for which they were at fault. Further, these trucks will be driving fruits and vegetables that will not undergo our own rigorous standards of testing, and which will be blended in with our own produce. This alone is enough for concern, and evinces what a reckless, short-sighted decision this is.


[edit on 7-10-2006 by OnTheDeck]

I agree being a stated Minuteman member does nothing for Corsi's virtue, only God can attest to that. I will say that the group itself offers credible, verifiable information on its website. I point that out, if for nothing more than to show the group’s sincerity and resolve.

You said, "Why? The superhighway is a known project, corsi didn't discover it or something like that. …. "

What I’m saying is Corsi asserts that the SPP, specifically, created and made plans for a Mexican/US/Canadian highway, and the fact that it originated with this organization will come to light if/when this particular highway is built. Not just any road that appears in the continental U.S., but this mega-highway in particular and its connection to SPP.

You said, "Its not reported widely because people don't care about another highway, and it was in the MSM. The information is readily available. "

People CARE about roads that open our border with Mexico, extend four (or more) football fields wide, invite unregulated Mexican truck drivers onto our highways, and are being constructed by the president of the United States. This information is NOT readily available – only to those who are looking for it. Most Senators and Congressman whose home states will carry this highway have no idea the plans even exist.

You said, "If it wasn't transparent, Corsi wouldn't have any information on it. THey have a website with the information, of all things. "

To be fair, Corsi claims he has had to invoke the Freedom of Information Act to gain access to information regarding this organization’s behind the scenes decision making. And claims there are many documents that are still being withheld. Corsi is a liar seeking attention, or he really is trying to purvey information about this union.

You said, "The three countries are building a highway. "

Go to their website and you’ll see their building more than a highway. And U.S. Secretary of Commerce Carlos M. Gutierrez has some very exciting things to say about his new, expanded role with the organization.

You said, "Excluding, of course, all those other explosions of immigrants into the US. To this day there are still cultural enclaves of immigrant italian, eastern european, and chinese populations in the US. "

I can’t even answer this one. Our president has been forced to address the issue of illegal Mexican immigration, and that’s not because he likes them less than Asian or Italian people.

You said, "But you are taking cooperation between mexico canada and the US to mean a shadow government."

I partially agree with this statement. It’s hard to have a shadow anything when you’re meeting before the national press, and you make public your intentions, etc., on a dedicated and very public website. But that website could just as easily be a PR device. The concern here is the secrecy behind the meetings that evokes the Bilderberg group; concern about bringing the private sector (NACC/business) into meetings regarding our national security (it stinks, again, of NAFTA corporatism), the continuing, calming rhetoric that this is not a European Union taking shape in the form of a North American parliament, and the slippery way that this organization has, in short time, set itself up as a regulatory power that intends vast changes and a larger, urgent agenda that, much like Iraq, doesn’t seem to have a visible, credible known source or cause for its existence at this particular time, or an imminent danger, or life threatening need to increase trade to necessitate the rapid growth and development going on with this “chat group”.

This organization is also so careful in choosing the wording and rhetoric on their site, and give speeches that seem to have been created in a lab somewhere, that you get a really creepy feeling about the whole thing that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.

I can only go back to the problem, reaction, solution and wonder here...I hope I'm wrong..

One last thing about the SPP’s (you down with Some other People’s Prosperity? Yeah you know me…) border security plans is that it DOES NOT ADDRESS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. What it does is address the issue as a stated concern, which only has a tangential relationship to SPP’s projected border plans. SPP’s real agenda, as stated on their website, is apparently to broaden, relax or remove our border restrictions with Mexico. It’s like a husband addressing the “taking out the trash” issue with his wife by telling her his drinking beer from recyclable cans will contribute to the environment.

Like the failed NAFTA “business venture” this is another business venture with a seemingly socially conscious face; its professed concern about prosperity and security. Ah, security and prosperity. That’s really nice. And Bush wants to say on national television that he will secure our borders against illegal Mexicans, and then turn around and go back to the SPP office with his buddy, the President of Mexico. Talk about friction in the workplace. I wonder if Bush is really addressing this problem from our side, or if he’s just “telling us that” and not doing it…but that would be saying one thing, and doing another…and that would be duplicitous. He wouldn’t do that. It would be unethical. I think we can look forward to more prosperity and security. Makes you feel like you’re wrapped up in a nice, soft, warm blanket by a crackling fire with some hot cocoa...as president Bush softly sings a melody and gently strums his guitar…

Why are they focusing on these legitimate border crossing points with further security there when the influx is happening “everywhere else but the border crossing points”?! It’s another perfect example of a misapplication of an ineffective security measure. But true border security was not their motive. Bush and Fox are greasing the skids for their own agenda, and using illegal immigration (and TERROR!) as their rallying cry.

It’s clear that increasing further control and security measures on these border crossing points (again, the illegals are not crossing here) and hassling legitimate, legal travelers, by creating a NEW North American ID/Passport (we already have a travel visa. we need a new one?), obviating an effective system already in place, and effecting a new “biometrics” system is misapplying an ineffective and unnecessary security system at further cost to our privacy and freedom of movement. It’s like stopping robbers who enter your house through the windows by putting a video camera above your front door. This fact is so obvious it’s staggering. These security measures serve the people implementing them, and not the immigration issue, or the citizenry they are meant to protect.

I submit that this new ID/ biometrics system was the goal all along. They are only facilitating something that only the SPP knows about. Why do we need a new organization to deal with something that the U.S. government has so far not been able to handle with Mexico’s cooperation? Was Mexico not talking to us until we started this organization? Why does our government need to create further organizations to address issues already being addressed, and poorly? We can’t overlook this fact when faced with tighter, superfluous and more bizarre security measures.

We saw what happens when corporations collude with our government. Do we want more of this? One of the concerns being addressed by these business leaders and heads of government is “to cut red tape or eliminate unnecessary barriers to trade in North America.” What red tape is left? Hasn’t U.S. business already stuck its bloody claws into every sector and continent? Is there one last thread of civil liberties that they were unable to sidestep or abolish? I’m missing a lot here. I’ll bet that anyone following this organization and its demented offspring will have a sour taste in their mouth and a sick feeling in their stomach in a year or so when things really start to get ugly.


[edit on 7-10-2006 by OnTheDeck]

Regarding fingerprint scanners, retina scanners, x-ray scanners, wiretapping, data mining, and biometrics – enough. We have to draw the line. Our government is slowly turning peeking into our lives, our personal lives, into a profession. And it has to stop. Someone, somewhere has to draw the line.

There are two things that the government proffers when there is a cry of resistance to their further snooping, peering and poking into our personal lives, and they are “terrorism” and the ever popular “if you aren’t committing a crime, then you have nothing to worry about”. No, “If we aren’t committing a crime, then YOU have nothing to worry about. See how that works?” Their flimsy reasoning is no excuse to scan people through their clothing. Total Recall (movie) was not cool. If they can invent a device that can scan through our f**king clothing, then they can invent a device that can otherwise detect bombs or weapons. It’s that simple.

The people capable of making this technology, and our government/military, are not the people that should be determining its application. Period. Legitimate, protective, legal, broad and thorough oversight needs to take place with all technology. But we are suffering at the hands of our own government who have scruples and our best interests in mind as a vampire does with his victim. It ain’t happening. But here, we are at the mercy of our government and military, and no one seems to be putting the brakes on. We need an unbiased, sincere, rigorous and accountable third party to disseminate technology like this, and IT IS NOT HAPPENING.

They have a scanner that shoots x-rays through your clothes to find weapons, or bomb-making materials. They can do this at prisons where they have incarcerated “criminals”, who have been tried and convicted of crimes, but they should not be able to do this to innocent, law abiding citizens. You don’t need to see me naked, or to scan my eyeball with a laser to feel confident I’m not a threat. The fact that I’m abiding the law, walking free down the f**king street, and attempting to fly to Des Moines to visit my grandmother is an indication that I’m not packing a f**king warhead. The war on terror has given our government cart blanche to implement some of the most ridiculous, perverse and invasive security measures against its own people (need I mention the U.S. Air Force Chief again?).

The corporations selling these faulty devices to our government don’t have a hard sell, because our government likes toys that it can use against other people. These are measures taken by our government in the “interest of national security” that are being recklessly driven to their ultimate extremes, with few checks, regard for effectiveness as a true deterrent, or concern for the egregious and shameful violations of individual privacies conferred by the Constitution and the founders of this country to its citizenry. This is a paranoid, power-hungry, unchecked government running roughshod over its populace in the name of some phantom and it needs to stop. We saw what happened when Oppenheimer shared his technology with the U.S. government. Boom! They likey the explosions.

Our government has turned its paranoid gaze to its own people, and is taking an aggressive stance that threatens to become a governmental modus operandi within its own borders. With threats of criminal legislation being passed that makes speaking out against the administration considered seditious and an imprisonable offense, you have to wonder what dangerous reasoning, or ideologies are at work here. The border situation is an honor system, whereby legitimate, free and law-abiding citizens follow the rules when they travel back and forth. Because there is a problem stemming from our government’s inability to secure a national border, we are being forced to undergo further restrictions on our liberties, and infringements on our privacy by being forced to offer a finger scan just to leave this country. F**k you!

Originally posted by Nygdan
THere are, what, 11 million mexicans (not merely hispanics, but specifically mexicans) in the US. Thats a large market, of course we're going to see advertising the is directed to them, let alone all the other hispanics in the country.
Thats what makes America good, all these good things from other countries.

I agree with much of what you said, however, not all things coming into this country "illegally" across the border are good. The MS-13 problem here in the Washington D.C. area is a real issue.

Originally posted by OnTheDeck
Our government has turned its paranoid gaze to its own people, and is taking an aggressive stance that threatens to become a governmental modus operandi within its own borders. With threats of criminal legislation being passed that makes speaking out against the administration considered seditious and an imprisonable offense, you have to wonder what dangerous reasoning, or ideologies are at work here. The border situation is an honor system, whereby legitimate, free and law-abiding citizens follow the rules when they travel back and forth. Because there is a problem stemming from our government’s inability to secure a national border, we are being forced to undergo further restrictions on our liberties, and infringements on our privacy by being forced to offer a finger scan just to leave this country. F**k you!

Agreed. It should be obvious to anyone w/ an IQ over 70 that our current administration is using the excuse of terrorism to erode civil liberties. It's right in front of our faces...

Face the facts guys, the US is screwed. I live in Ireland & looking from the outside in, Your government & media have spun exceptionally well there wonderful plans to benefit you, Reality checks all round me thinks. Any sane individual knows that superhighway is bad news. I told my friend in Chigago about this highway reality a month ago, & he knew nothing about it from any media source. Such a project will have massive implications to US Citizens. Lets c!!!!!!!! transport of illegal everythings you can think of & under costing homegrown american small business, because it's now cheeper to buy & transport from mexico.

I I I, warning signs & alarm bells should be ringing on local radio waves in my opinion.

Regards

Originally posted by Nygdan
What exactly is wrong with Bush making informed policy decisions and working with this fellows on the international level? None of that requires any NWO.

New World Oder (drop new, and you have world order) so in a since if he is working on an international level and there are international laws that countries are compelled to go by...then this would make a NWO (in regards to the very last sentence in your quote)

As far as what is wrong with communication, nothing.
But in general people with power, like to centralize and have control.
And that appears to be what is happening everwhere. One can argue that for the sake of humanity it is needed. (which may be true, but if so, it is sad, as it implies we are monkeys to have to be watched and looked after, or slaves to do the bidding of a few.)

What is needed, or rather nice, is individuals to drop the power game.
Who really cares...truly. If indeed, as Solomon said, great kings meet the same fate as the slave, then who really cares. We should drop all governments, and live at peace with one another.
But I think this world isnt evolved enough, and if revelations (no im not religious) is any implication of anything, this world, the way it is now is not mature enought to just live and let live.

Peace

Dalen