Can you believe in anyone?

I have contacted a couple of well-known investigators that are working with the extraterrestrial matter, including the Disclosure Project, and asked them how they are going to prove for the public that their theories are true.
It bothers me none of them have given me an answer yet and that only strenghten my own opinion that they cannot by any means prove that they are telling us the truth.
It's unadviced to be too open-minded about the extraterrestrial question but it is also very dense to be too sceptical. I'm somewhere in the middle and to "persuade" me they exist is impossible if there is no solid proof to be revealed, same if someone tried to tell me they don't exist I also demand proof for that statement.

I became very disappointed in Marilyn vos Savanth when I read she had told some of her readers that extraterrestrials didn't exist, when she had no proof at all to strenghten that statement. She did only make that statement out of her own assumptions.
Many critics, like Marilyn, do the very same thing when they're trying to persuade people about the extraterrestrial's non-existence.
There seem to be more proof that they exist than the opposite, but that's just my opinion by the way.

What proof is there really? Is there anything solid enough to convince the humanity that "they" exist, even people that are very sceptical?
I don't know who I should believe.
Some known Ufologists dislike Steven Greer's theories and his way to reveal them when some other people dislike some of the other Ufologists' theories that differ from Greer's.
I want your opinions about this. Do you believe Steven Greer is talking rubbish and that all his witnessess are telling made up stories just to earn money or do you believe he is close to the, so called, truth?

I've got pleny of other questions about everything associated to this matter but I will leave that until later.

Synergy

[edit on 28-9-2006 by Synergy]

There will probably never be any hard evidence (not in our life time) but surely the only evidence we need is ourselves. Think of it this way, we are here, yeah, so there must be someone else in this universe other than us, we are not some special one time fluke of nature, wether we were put here or just evolved, there is going to be so many other planets out there that can susstain life.

you have to try to stay grounded or the ufo stuff can become sort of religion to you.

even someone like s friedman has to be taken with a pinch of salt. he admits himself he was in security of top secrets in his past. this would involve being involved with mind control etc... to control information. this guy is on the con, but like others you do get truths in what he says.

[edit on 28-9-2006 by andy1033]

Originally posted by chris01621
There will probably never be any hard evidence (not in our life time) but surely the only evidence we need is ourselves. Think of it this way, we are here, yeah, so there must be someone else in this universe

While technically incorrect (even an infinite universe *can* have a single instance of a thing in it, such as a civilization), you are probably correct. But that doesn't mean the nearest aliens are even within the same galactic cluster as we are, much less in the same galaxy or the same part of the same galaxy. The best evidence I see that there are no aliens anywhere nearby is that when I look out into space I don't see (and nobody sees) anything but a wild galaxy.

Here's my 22 cents:

1) Hidden world theory is a religeous position that has existed since the beginning of man
2) Unusual phenomena occur
3) Through FOI, we learn that states have considerable interest in phenomena.
4) Through disinformation, we learn that states have considerable interest in officially denying interest in phenomena.
5) Information control is the one remaining governmental power not entirely controlled by economics.
6) As a result, we live in feudal information states, in which there is commons information and royal information, the latter of which can get you killed or 'jailed for life' in which the punishment far exceed the crime, in order to maintain feudal supremecy over the masses. This is the MIIC, or Military/Industrial Information Complex.
7) A vast majority of technical MIIC employess are just run-of-the-mill good people who want to server their counry and have an intellectually challenging job.
8) Up to 40% of the general populous hear voices. Most find them benign or beneficial.
9) A small portion of the population experience encounters with aerial craft. These include reputable police officers, entire night-patrol groups, cities, and the like.
10) Many aerial phenomena are simply misidentified prosaic events
11) A small but important fraction are not. Police witness "overturned cars" taking off into the sky. Several police cars witness a large flying black triangle or rectangle with vertical striped lights circle around a city for 4 hours, etc.

The fundamental question of our time is how we will treat the feudal information state. Given the control of information and disinformation with respect to the recent Iraq war, we already know how it treats us. There are two key points here:

1) As the ability of the commons to record our daily lives increases, so too will our access to phenomenological information. There will be a critical point in the future at which the commons understanding of evidential phenomena will surpass that of the state. Ranchers will have sensory recordings of what they saw on their ranch, etc.
As a result, the state will either have to accept increasing quantities of disinformation in its moral code (which is entirely possible) or allow the public to reach its own conclusions.

2) Will we continue to abide by a feudal information state as a form of patriotism, just as ancient peasants abided by a feudal material state as a form of patriotism? Or will we demand change? Will this be to an economic model of information? This does not currently exist within our moral values except in the form of advanced education.

[edit on 28-9-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

Synergy

The alien races keep tight control of physical evidence of themselves on Earth in order to keep it away from the humans who would use it to prove "something else instead" about the alien races and the humans who work with them. It's more progressive, hopeful and true for a common human to have no evidence of alien life, than to have it of what the Earth Powers want it to prove to him.

Why should the aliens lend public "evidence" to all the disinformation, which would only be used to add to the confusion and only serve the government agenda of slander against the aliens? That would be entirely counterproductive to the efforts of the alien races visiting Earth and cause more damage to be undone before the publics could get to the truth.

When a particular human needs personal evidence for himself for the purpose of TRUE process of education about the aliens and their intentions, he gets it directly via the alien races. Anything less just will not do.

Listen to people and consider their sources and motivations, but think only for yourself. Don't believe anything you hear about alien life unless you see it for yourself and get it directly from the alien races.



[edit on 9/28/2006 by EarthSister]

Originally posted by EarthSister
When a particular human needs personal evidence for himself for the purpose of TRUE process of education about the aliens and their intentions, he gets it directly via the alien races. Anything less just will not do.

They are way overdue for their appointment with me.
They must have misplaced their calender book. I'll send them a reminder note.

[edit on 28-9-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

You have voted Ectoterrestrial for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Wow Ectoterrestrial, awesome post!! I agree entirely, we're in a feudal information society. Brilliant conclusion.

Pokey Oats

If I or a group of people say a creature exists - the burden of proof lies with us.
Much less with someone who doesn't believe in the creature. Insisting that something exists falls under the claims of extraordianry claims reauire extraordinary evidence.

I feel that the Disclosure Project is simply more of the same rehash worked over the public for over 40 years. There will be no extraordinary evidence.
I believe the reason the Disclosure Project has floundered is simply because the show can't live up to its billing.

There are many discussions on Dr. Greer here on ATS. Anyone interested in holding out for some illuminating proof from the Disclosure Project would be better to read up on him.

Good point about the Fuedual point of UFO information and classification on the subject. I do think the goverment knows more about the people and the places, the aliens or whatever they call themsleves come from then the general population. But they keep it that way for both protect, power, and their survival in society.

In other words you cannot believe in anyone except yourself. That sounds...hopeful.

If you only knew how tired I am at this whole subject. There are too many people working in this field that're only doing it for profit, a way to get more money.

Why are we even discussing this matter now when it's pointless? It's obvious something IS going on. Who can argue with that except the fanatics that make their living by denying everything?
We won't get the truth out of them (assuming something IS going on).
They have kept it for 60 years and the only thing they need to do is to deny everything and as long as no one can prove that their denials are all rubbish no "true" information will be revealed to the public. Ever.

It feels like this whole subject will keep going for years and years with the same talk, the same proof and denials.
The only ones that can prevent it from continuing until this world is gone are the extraterrestrials (if they exist). And it could take hundreds of years before the public will hear anything from them.

What are your hopes really?

Synergy

[edit on 29-9-2006 by Synergy]

Originally posted by Synergy
In other words you cannot believe in anyone except yourself. That sounds...hopeful.

I'm afraid its worse than that. You really shouldn't believe yourself, either.
Most of us live in a world view that is contaminated with a multitude of assumptions. Most of these are useful and hence the intrinsic nature of man to form such assumptions. However, some of them can be quite harmful to us.

If you only knew how tired I am at this whole subject. There are too many people working in this field that're only doing it for profit, a way to get more money.

Amen to that. This site, for example, has plenty of video and movie plugs, let alone book sales attempts. They are often ignored. But there are still plenty of free 'videos on the net' with poor science and poorly reached conclusions. Its a shame. It provides the disinformation necessary to keep the subject a confusing puddle of mud.

There is still another class of salesman here, even more common, interested in controlling your metaphysical perspective.

Why are we even discussing this matter now when it's pointless? It's obvious something IS going on. Who can argue with that except the fanatics that make their living by denying everything?

Well, we are discussing it here because the press is useless and your personal contacts and experiences are the most important evidence. Not what skeptics believe.

People I can trust and in the right positions told me that the press is so off the mark that they are a waste of time. Most of what you read about the world or see on the news isn't telling you what is really going on. Scary eh? The person also insinuated that they can control the press as necessary. You can take that to the bank.

It was also insinuated that great and big things were going on. Now as for what 'big' is.... well, that could be many things.

We won't get the truth out of them (assuming something IS going on).
They have kept it for 60 years and the only thing they need to do is to deny everything and as long as no one can prove that their denials are all rubbish no "true" information will be revealed to the public. Ever.

I believe that that is correct.

It feels like this whole subject will keep going for years and years with the same talk, the same proof and denials.
The only ones that can prevent it from continuing until this world is gone are the extraterrestrials (if they exist). And it could take hundreds of years before the public will hear anything from them.

The subject will continue so long as religeon is part of the human condition. I vote for forever.

THe question for me is not how long religous conversation will continue. The question is how long the government will continue to deny interest in phenoemena and secretly study it.

You assume that 'hearing from them' is something they 'think' about. You are operating within an anthropomorphic construct. It seems more likely to me that an alien intelligence would step broadly and awkwardly across our moral concepts, and that we would be largely repugnated by what resembles their 'decision making process' if such a thing is even comparable.

All I know is that the US tried to shoot those radar blips down for a while, and that people in compartmental programs who believe in UFOs are afraid of the UFOs. That 'greys' are looked upon with disdain, either as a poor characture or an incomplete understanding of an inhumane nature, hat the earth experiences periodic mass extinctions roughly every 600 million years.

Now leaving conversational evidence and moving into the even more speculative: a lack of causality in the form of non-objective manifestations, can cause horror and terror in humanity.

What are your hopes really?

That the vast majority of people start to think deeply about issues starting at age 4, and that they don't stop until they are 95 years old.

[edit on 29-9-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

"Proof" would definitely put an end to it...but all we have currently is "evidence", some good, some not so good, some (the majority actually) absolute rubbish.

However, if even ONE case is true, then well, something is going on, isn't there?

Nothing stays a secret forever...and forever is a long time.....